Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

snakeweasel

houdini1 said:

snakeweasel said:

houdini1 said:

That sure is an ugly looking dash on that mirrorless BMW.

Cars are getting so many costly gadgets, it reminds me of our bygone space race. The U.S. spent millions developing a ball point pen that would write in zero gravity, whereas the Russians just used a pencil. Pencil works for me, as do mirrors.

Actually it was a private company that developed the space pen and sold it to NASA as well as the general public. The Russians also used that same space pen, you cannot use pencils in space. When you use a pencil little pieces of graphite break off and in space they float around until they eventually get into the delicate electronics and foul everything up.

Both Russia and the U.S. used pencils and special grease pencils in space up until the late 60's when they adopted the space pen. Primarily because it left a more permanent record. Despite the fear of graphite dust and broken pencil points fouling electronics, there is no record that this ever caused an accident.

No records is correct, but if it is a legitimate concern then why wait for the accident? Especially since accidents in space are far more deadly.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

An online friend in NYC posted this picture of a car she admired parked outside her building today. I must confess this is a new thing for me: "Parking Armor". Any idea what the story is on this? Do you leave it on all the time or only install it when the car is parked? Probably makes sense in a place like Manhattan.

There's always something new under the sun...

Could have used that for the Cobalt in the parking lot at the two different apartments my son lived in at OSU (The Ohio State University). LOL The soft bumper covers got lightly abraided and got flexed as other cars pushed against them. Luckily no permanent damage other than a stone dent on the front lip of the hood.

The parking armor doesn't have a large pad for your front bumper's protection. They do offer a thick license plate setup to absorb some bumps.

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

AB...never heard of "parking Armor". Looks like it hooks into your trunk. I can't see it protecting much more than maybe some paint chips. Somebody does a wee bit more than a tap, and you've got bumper damage that the little piece of plastic isn't going to help.

I have to agree, when I saw it my thoughts were that it would protect it against scraps and scuffs but not against anything with enough force to dent or push in a bumper. I really don't see it as anything but a novelty.

stickguy

In theory you put in the trunk when not parked, but I see people driving on highway with it quite often. Goofy looking.

The real answer is a 1984 Rabbit with battering rams. No worries there. No plastic to damage!

houdini1

snakeweasel said:

houdini1 said:

snakeweasel said:

houdini1 said:

That sure is an ugly looking dash on that mirrorless BMW.

Cars are getting so many costly gadgets, it reminds me of our bygone space race. The U.S. spent millions developing a ball point pen that would write in zero gravity, whereas the Russians just used a pencil. Pencil works for me, as do mirrors.

Actually it was a private company that developed the space pen and sold it to NASA as well as the general public. The Russians also used that same space pen, you cannot use pencils in space. When you use a pencil little pieces of graphite break off and in space they float around until they eventually get into the delicate electronics and foul everything up.

Both Russia and the U.S. used pencils and special grease pencils in space up until the late 60's when they adopted the space pen. Primarily because it left a more permanent record. Despite the fear of graphite dust and broken pencil points fouling electronics, there is no record that this ever caused an accident.

No records is correct, but if it is a legitimate concern then why wait for the accident? Especially since accidents in space are far more deadly.

I don't think they were waiting for an accident, but they had to use something to write with until a better alternative came along. First man in orbit was in 1961 and the space pen was not invented until 1965. U.S. started using it in 1967 and Russia in 1969.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't know about Manhattan but in San Francisco if you left your car parked in the street 24/7, it would be a shambles within 6 months--that's if you even had a bumper left on it by then. Of course, there's also parking lot dings and random keying, for which there is little defense. Window smashing is also quite popular in SF right now.

cdnpinhead

roadburner said:

<. . .virtually no one knows how to adjust their mirrors.</p>

Rather than go find a more appropriate post of yours to respond to, I'll do this one.

It sounds like the 2 series you just purchased is the answer to the maiden's prayer: a BMW that more-or-less acts like the old ones always did. A few questions:
1) Is it available with a manual?
2) Since it's an M, are today's Ms blessed with hand-built engines that require significantly more care and expense in their maintenance? The old ones did.
3) I've heard that the even numbers are coupes. True? 4 doors available?
4) How much electronic, let's say stuff, is required at the base level?
5) What kind of money are we talking? I realize that $20K in options is not uncommon, and Ms often start at 40-50K or more.

Mr_Shiftright

Looks like you can get a manual trans in either the 228i or the M235 but there's a $12K difference in base MSRP.

I priced a 228i the way I like it, with no electronic gee-gaws whatsoever, manual transmission, with cold weather pkg, lighting pkg, bluetooth/USB, luxury pkg and moonroof, and it came out to $35.4K .

stickguy

you can get a stick on the M235i. A few floating around, but not many. But, it is not a "true" M car (not an M2). More like an Msport package, with the normal drivetrain.

BMW naming convention is still fluid, but the 2 and 4 series are supposed to be the coupes. except for the 4 series "grand coupes" that have 4 doors!

a new one with basic options will sticker for 50K easy.

laurasdada

Losing to the ultimate champions lessens the sting of the Patriots loss to the Broncos....slightly. But, defense certainly wins championships, unless, of course, you pull out the old "helmet catch" trick! Looking forward to the next season, the Pats next "Drive for Five," "One for the Thumb," etc. Add Brady to the above list of greats...

XF turned 23,000 miles over the weekend. Still no issues to report. And, bwia, I was out running in the snow in Wellesley Friday noon-time. Literally, tree branches falling down around us, we kept to the middle of the road as (very light to no) traffic allowed, away from the trees along the side of the streets. We sort of joked about it, until I got home later and heard the tragic news. Heartbreaking.

Mr_Shiftright

With rebate I priced out an M235i with very little in options for around $45K but optioned up a bit, yeah, it broke $50K.

cdnpinhead

Mr_Shiftright said:

Looks like you can get a manual trans in either the 228i or the M235 but there's a $12K difference in base MSRP.

I priced a 228i the way I like it, with no electronic gee-gaws whatsoever, manual transmission, with cold weather pkg, lighting pkg, bluetooth/USB, luxury pkg and moonroof, and it came out to $35.4K .

Thanks, to you and Stickguy as well.

stickguy

you can spec them out with a lot less stuff. Not always easy to find of course, but not a problem if you want to order. And usually they make it so the 1 item you really "have" to have is only available as part of some expensive package!

I was reading about the performance delivery. If I ever bought a new one, I would do the pick up in Spartenburg option, and get the performance course time too.

roadburner

cdnpinhead said:

roadburner said:

<. . .virtually no one knows how to adjust their mirrors.</p>

Rather than go find a more appropriate post of yours to respond to, I'll do this one.

It sounds like the 2 series you just purchased is the answer to the maiden's prayer: a BMW that more-or-less acts like the old ones always did. A few questions:
1) Is it available with a manual?
2) Since it's an M, are today's Ms blessed with hand-built engines that require significantly more care and expense in their maintenance? The old ones did.
3) I've heard that the even numbers are coupes. True? 4 doors available?
4) How much electronic, let's say stuff, is required at the base level?
5) What kind of money are we talking? I realize that $20K in options is not uncommon, and Ms often start at 40-50K or more.

Sorry I'm late to the party, but I'll chime in on a couple of your questions:

The M235i is an "M Performance" model, meaning it is more than merely a suspension/trim package like an M Sport but it's not as hardcore as a true M car. It is the only six cylinder in the 2er range and offers a 20 hp bump in power over other BMW x35i cars. In addition, it comes with fixed M Sport brake calipers, Adaptive M Suspension, and Variable Sport Steering.
The good news is you can get all those goodies(save the motor) in a 228i by ordering the Track Handling Package.
Having said all that, my CPO car cost not a whole lot more than the hypothetical 228i Mr_Shiftright built. As I always say, depreciation is my friend...

Mr_Shiftright

Buying something 2-3 years old is appealing on so many levels---owner #1 gets to work the bugs out, if any, and he takes the biggest hit on depreciation for you.

nyccarguy

@roadburner & @Mr_Shiftright - as I've said many times before, I totally understand letting owner #1 taking the depreciation hit.  There is just too much of a practical side in me to have taken the plunge on a used or CPO car.  

For instance, if I was in the market for a 2 series coupe and had the choice of ordering it to my specifications brand new or buying a 2 year old M235i for roughly the same price, practical Bradd would say:  "You are making payments anyway, so why not get the new one? Yes the turbo 6 motor In the M235i rocks, but how fast can I really up in public highways?"

I know how cars are built to last these days.  I've got a 14 year old Prelude & an almost 5 year old Pilot sitting in my driveway & garage.  I've driven 2 BMWs & an Acura to just about the expiration of their warranties with only minor issues.  

Let's say I wanted to ditch my Legacy.  What CPO car could I get for $20 - $24K could I get that would make me take the plunge?  AWD, Sedan or SUV, Heated Seats, Automatic, a good amount of go go juice, solid riding, good handling

[Deleted User]

I flew into Austin today and rented a Toyota Venza LE. After pulling out of the covered multi-story parking garage I was confronted with a massive windstorm that pushed the Venza around on the highway, literally making it hard to stay in a lane. The engine struggled, challenging me to hold a steady speed, and the rushing wind noise inside the cabin was deafening. Incredible the effect strong wind can have on a vehicle. Or so I thought. When I arrived at the hotel I braced myself and opened the door only to find the "major" wind was a light breeze. HA. HA, HA. A light breeze was all it took to make my rental Venza a miserable ride.

It didn't even need a light breeze to be miserable. The center arm rest and storage area squeaked incessantly under my arm, the plastics literally hurt my fingernail when rubbed it across the texture, rattles abounded throughout the cabin, and the thing felt like an economy car from top to bottom. Cheap materials, disconnected steering, uninspired suspension, overwhelmed 4-cylinder motor. It takes Toyota boring to a whole new level.

[Deleted User]

nyccarguy said:

What CPO car could I get for $20 - $24K could I get that would make me take the plunge?  AWD, Sedan or SUV, Heated Seats, Automatic, a good amount of go go juice, solid riding, good handling

Does it have to be CPO? That adds some cost. You could get a 2013 BMW 3 series, MB C-class, or Audi A4 with AWD and in warranty. I think the MB and Audi will give you the best value.

roadburner

The BMW dealer where I bought my 2 Series has a CPO 2011 328i xDrive for 20,988, as well as a CPO 2013 328i xDrive for 26,988. I suspect you could get the 2013 for close to $24,000...

stickguy

well, this I found quick. I know you can probably get it down, or find other options.

I can vouch for the "go juice" factor!

http://www.eliteacura.com/certified/Acura/2013-Acura-RDX-51b405bc0a0d0c1445880de5a4051435.htm

If you want a sedan:

http://www.redbankvolvo.com/certified/Volvo/2013-Volvo-S60-b12225150a0e08be370a7505605989d8.htm

And if MPG takes a back seat to HP:

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2013-infiniti-g37_sedan-4dr_x_awd-used-14603596.html

stickguy

there do seem to be a lot of prior gen MB C classes out there (I also really like them):

http://www.aviautosales.com/2013_MercedesBenz_CClass_Magnolia_NJ_1320890.veh

stickguy

I go back and forth on used vs. new. The MBs seem to take a big hit after a 2 year lease even with modest miles. That makes sense to buy used. And Acura, they seem to hold value better, but can get a good discount new. Starting out cheaper, that I might just buy new.

cdnpinhead

roadburner said:

Sorry I'm late to the party, but I'll chime in on a couple of your questions: . . .The good news is you can get all those goodies(save the motor) in a 228i by ordering the Track Handling Package.

Thanks, RB. You and Shipo (where on earth has he gone?) are my go-to guys for all things BMW. I get the magazine every month and mostly it reminds me why most of the people who participate talk about older cars, and why I'll never buy a new one, among other things.

You've given me a smidgen of hope, along with the other guys who kindly responded to my post.

I just want a little diesel with a manual, like the tens of thousands that are sold every year in Europe, or I could flap my arms and fly to the moon (credit to Charles Shultz).

nyccarguy

So if I were to go used, then I'd definitely be a little snobby about a few things - 

@stickguy - the RDX fits the bill nicely.  Although I suspect If I were to pick up something like that, my wife would make it hers.  It has almost 60K miles on it.  Nothing for an Acura, but consider it is going to need some preventative maintenance for me to get it up to my specs of obsessive.  That RDX will have 100K miles on it in a little over 2 years with the driving I do & I'll still be paying for it.

@roadburner - if I were to go the used 3er route, I'd want a 335xi.  I really don't have an interest in a 2013 328xi.

an MB, BMW, or Audi I wouldn't own without a CPO warranty.

stickguy

NYC, that just happened to be the first RDX I came too. Can get one with fewer miles. I have the same year sitting in the garage with about 32K on it!

Audi, that I would want a warranty on, but if I get a Benz, it would likely be from the local guy for many thousands less fewer $$ than a CPO. Still under BtoB warranty for at least a year, then a couple of years of powertrain. I would never come close to running out the miles, and the years on the CPO aren't much difference.

if you are that afraid of the car, probably a sign not to buy it. Can also just get a warranty on it, since that is pretty much all the CPO is giving you.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

stever said:

snakeweasel said:

I would guess that autonomous cars in any serious numbers will take 10 years and maybe 30 years to be widespread.

"The US Department of Transportation (USDOT) has released its report to the United States Congress assessing the status of dedicated short-range communications (DSRC) for connected vehicle technologies. The findings are that they are ready for deployment."

USDOT reports to US Congress on DSRC for connected vehicles (Gizmag)

Seems like that would fit right in with the autonomous car sensors. Some say 2020 is the magic year, but that's only 4 years away and likely too ambitious. Hopefully ten will be doable.

My thinking that it's going to take ten years to get all the bugs out and start getting the prices down so that it starts to appeal to more moderate incomes. Then it's going to take time for people to accept them and then to slowly replace the existing fleet as it slowly ages.

That's just about the time when I will be needing one!

driver100

tyguy said:

I flew into Austin today and rented a Toyota Venza LE.

It didn't even need a light breeze to be miserable. The center arm rest and storage area squeaked incessantly under my arm, the plastics literally hurt my fingernail when rubbed it across the texture, rattles abounded throughout the cabin, and the thing felt like an economy car from top to bottom. Cheap materials, disconnected steering, uninspired suspension, overwhelmed 4-cylinder motor. It takes Toyota boring to a whole new level.

I really thought Toyota would have progressed with their car building. I guess most people just want something reliable....and don't care about ride, comfort or handling. You would think the car buying public would demand something better than that.....doesn't sound like much fun driving a Venza.

driver100

stickguy said:

there do seem to be a lot of prior gen MB C classes out there (I also really like them):

http://www.aviautosales.com/2013_MercedesBenz_CClass_Magnolia_NJ_1320890.veh

I love that car. IMHpersonalO it is a classic....it will always look smart, and I bet it would be a great handling car too!

tjc78

tyguy said:

I flew into Austin today and rented a Toyota Venza LE. After pulling out of the covered multi-story parking garage I was confronted with a massive windstorm that pushed the Venza around on the highway, literally making it hard to stay in a lane. The engine struggled, challenging me to hold a steady speed, and the rushing wind noise inside the cabin was deafening. Incredible the effect strong wind can have on a vehicle. Or so I thought. When I arrived at the hotel I braced myself and opened the door only to find the "major" wind was a light breeze. HA. HA, HA. A light breeze was all it took to make my rental Venza a miserable ride.

It didn't even need a light breeze to be miserable. The center arm rest and storage area squeaked incessantly under my arm, the plastics literally hurt my fingernail when rubbed it across the texture, rattles abounded throughout the cabin, and the thing felt like an economy car from top to bottom. Cheap materials, disconnected steering, uninspired suspension, overwhelmed 4-cylinder motor. It takes Toyota boring to a whole new level.

My Mother has a Venza, and while no Toyota is built like they were in the late 90s early 2000s I really don't see what you are talking about. I've driven hers (4cyl, base) in snow wind and rain on crappy NJ roads and it has handled everything beautifully. Yes, the 4cyl is a bit underpowered but I don't think the interior is anything below other vehicles in its class.

sda

I've had good experience from Safelite as well. Last September on my travel back from Pittsburgh in the Accord and only 3 miles away from home (!) a truck pulls out of a neighborhood under development and throws a rock that hits the windshield dead center. Thwack! Because the star crack was in my line of vision I had the windshield replaced. I was fairly apprehensive about the outcome. They came to our house and 2 hours later, the new windshield was installed. Great job, no tell tale evidence that it has been replaced. I did go with their replacement glass rather than oem. The glass was made by AGC Automotive, same as oem, but doesn't have the Honda logo on it and about half price of oem. I am very pleased with the replacement.

roadburner

cdnpinhead said:

Thanks, RB. You and Shipo (where on earth has he gone?) are my go-to guys for all things BMW. I get the magazine every month and mostly it reminds me why most of the people who participate talk about older cars, and why I'll never buy a new one, among other things.

You've given me a smidgen of hope, along with the other guys who kindly responded to my post.

I just want a little diesel with a manual, like the tens of thousands that are sold every year in Europe, or I could flap my arms and fly to the moon (credit to Charles Shultz).

I haven't heard from Shipo in ages either, I think I have an email from him somewhere, I should probably follow up.

It's funny that you mentioned the diesel; I've been going through back issues of the British Magazine BMW CAR and re-reading articles on the 2er(I know, I'm a data geek) and just yesterday I read their review of the 220d. With a manual it runs from 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and returns over 40 mpg in suburban driving. That would be fun- and with a mild tune you would have a car that could give a Focus ST or GTI fits...

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

@roadburner - if I were to go the used 3er route, I'd want a 335xi.  I really don't have an interest in a 2013 328xi.

an MB, BMW, or Audi I wouldn't own without a CPO warranty.

I don't blame you; I was just throwing out a few CPO Bimmers that were in your price range. I just remembered that the same dealer had a CPO E92 335i stick but they sold it a week before I bought my 2er. It was also priced in the mid $20k range- so an automatic xDrive might be doable with some detective work...

graphicguy

Mr Shiftright...I'm heading to the Bay Area tomorrow (San Jose). I might make it to San Francisco, for no other reason than it's been a couple of years since I've been. Can't see driving, though. I know it would take an hour, but would probably Uber from San Jose to San Francisco. No way I'd park in San Francisco...even in a rental car.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

Buying something 2-3 years old is appealing on so many levels---owner #1 gets to work the bugs out, if any, and he takes the biggest hit on depreciation for you.

Works best on fairly expensive cars. I've been doing it for years.

Mr_Shiftright

graphicguy said:

Mr Shiftright...I'm heading to the Bay Area tomorrow (San Jose). I might make it to San Francisco, for no other reason than it's been a couple of years since I've been. Can't see driving, though. I know it would take an hour, but would probably Uber from San Jose to San Francisco. No way I'd park in San Francisco...even in a rental car.

Yeah, even with the Superbowl orgy being over, I wouldn't recommend driving into SF and trying to park--although you can park downtown for a mere $60 a day (for overnight).

imidazol97

Mr_Shiftright said:

Superbowl orgy being over,

LOL

Mr_Shiftright

Football and politics--taken in combination, two sure warning signs of a crumbling empire. I liked the MINI commercial though.

berri

There is a commuter train that runs down the peninsula past the airport. I wonder if it goes to San Jose from SF?

Mr_Shiftright

THIS is going to rattle some cages:

EPA greenhouse gas rule would ban conversion of light vehicles to racecars

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

THIS is going to rattle some cages:

EPA greenhouse gas rule would ban conversion of light vehicles to racecars

Sounds about rights as he lunatics in DC are now blaming the Zika virus on global warming. I'm waiting for the EPA ruling that makes it illegal to exhale because of the CO2 pollution.

PF_Flyer

We are pretty far down the rabbit hole

A week or so ago, Microsoft announced an idea to put data centers at the bottom of the ocean, one of the benefits being the use of the aquatic environment to naturally cool them. Ummm... that heat going into the oceans would seem to go against the whole idea of climate change, which Microsoft is big on, wouldn't it??

But let's stick to CARS & conversations... we're gonna have enough circular stuff elsewhere in 2016

PF_Flyer

Perhaps we need a LAW about this too

Here's a tip: Don't park your car on a lake

Can't legislate away stupid I guess

driver100

tjc78 said:

tyguy said:

I flew into Austin today and rented a Toyota Venza LE. After pulling out of the covered multi-story parking garage I was confronted with a massive windstorm that pushed the Venza around on the highway, literally making it hard to stay in a lane. The engine struggled, challenging me to hold a steady speed, and the rushing wind noise inside the cabin was deafening. Incredible the effect strong wind can have on a vehicle. Or so I thought. When I arrived at the hotel I braced myself and opened the door only to find the "major" wind was a light breeze. HA. HA, HA. A light breeze was all it took to make my rental Venza a miserable ride.

It didn't even need a light breeze to be miserable. The center arm rest and storage area squeaked incessantly under my arm, the plastics literally hurt my fingernail when rubbed it across the texture, rattles abounded throughout the cabin, and the thing felt like an economy car from top to bottom. Cheap materials, disconnected steering, uninspired suspension, overwhelmed 4-cylinder motor. It takes Toyota boring to a whole new level.

My Mother has a Venza, and while no Toyota is built like they were in the late 90s early 2000s I really don't see what you are talking about. I've driven hers (4cyl, base) in snow wind and rain on crappy NJ roads and it has handled everything beautifully. Yes, the 4cyl is a bit underpowered but I don't think the interior is anything below other vehicles in its class.

They make excellent appliances. Any of the Toyotas I have driven in or have driven just are lacking something for me. I get that they are dependable, that they don't do anything risky as that adds to the chance something can go wrong, they are reliable....but, they lack soul.

driver100

sda said:

I've had good experience from Safelite as well. Last September on my travel back from Pittsburgh in the Accord and only 3 miles away from home (!) a truck pulls out of a neighborhood under development and throws a rock that hits the windshield dead center. Thwack! Because the star crack was in my line of vision I had the windshield replaced. I was fairly apprehensive about the outcome. They came to our house and 2 hours later, the new windshield was installed. Great job, no tell tale evidence that it has been replaced. I did go with their replacement glass rather than oem. The glass was made by AGC Automotive, same as oem, but doesn't have the Honda logo on it and about half price of oem. I am very pleased with the replacement

.

They said an OEM windshield would be about $1300, it would have the Mercedes logo of course, a generic windshield would cost about $700 to install, exactly the same, comes from the same plant, just no logo. How important is a log for resale....I wouldn't worry about it.

Some companies do everything right and I would definitely put Safelite in that category. I almost patched the window myself, but as someone here stated, the most important thing is to maintain the strength of the windshield, so I would rather the experts fix it as good as they can.

houdini1

Aren't you afraid that not having the logo will take some of the "soul" from your Mercedes?

abacomike

houdini1 said:

Aren't you afraid that not having the logo will take some of the "soul" from your Mercedes?

I agree - in fact I just got a text from driver's neighbor informing me that the E400 is starting to look more like a Japanese Camry than a German Daimler-Benz product!  Truly a shame. 

PF_Flyer

abacomike said:

houdini1 said:

Aren't you afraid that not having the logo will take some of the "soul" from your Mercedes?

I agree - in fact I just got a text from driver's neighbor informing me that the E400 is starting to look more like a Japanese Camry than a German Daimler-Benz product!  Truly a shame. 

Close, no cigar?

bwia

From that orientation the Camry looks prettier and more handsome I might add.

PF_Flyer

The Camry is a studio shot so adjust for lighting

stever

Which one is the Camry?