By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Good move koctailz...at the very least it will be a learning experience for you and the dealer. I always think of it as sharpenning my consumer skills and/or negotiating skills.
I have got reversals by just talking in a professional mild reasonable manner. In all sales, particularly the car business, one customer will talk to 20 people and word does make a difference.
Good luck, know you will be lucky to get a reversal - don't count on it, but better to at least discuss it and get it out of your system.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I can see how you could get a negative attitude toward customers. Unfortunately, maybe only 5% of customers are like that...at most 20% in some cases. But, those few leave a bigger impression than the decent ones.
I have dealt with the public and I have dealt with businesses....and businesses are much easier.
When I dealt with the public I had a saying....The customer is usually wrong!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mike, something very similar happened in my family earlier this year. It is still too painful to really talk about here, but let's just say I completely understand how you are feeling. God bless you my friend, a lot of people are praying for you and your son. All the best.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Thanks all for you prayers and support - I don't have anyone to vent to and my Dad is oblivious to the situation.
I just need some time to adjust to the fact that my son has a cancerous tumor in his brain and has only a 1 in 5 chance of survival.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I saw a Tesla a while ago and it was a cool looking car.
Today I saw a Studebaker Hawk. Late 50s I'd guess. 4 speed Now that is a cool car.
http://www.carsfotodb.com/uploads/studebaker/studebaker-hawk/studebaker-hawk-08.jpg
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We will keep you on the prayer list; our thoughts are with you and your family.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'm sorry Mike. Nobody deserves this much heartache.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Stick, I'm sorry for your loss. So that's what you've been referring to in NY. I assumed it was something to do with your son.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Thanks Farmer. No, this was down in southern NY not up your way.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Driver, you couldn't be more wrong. Caveat emptor.
Stick, sorry for your loss.
Mike, I hope the treatment works and he is the 1 in the 1 out of 5 who make it.
Interesting. So does that mean that the car was already registered with the DMV when you bought it?
"Driver, you couldn't be more wrong. Caveat emptor."
Regarding driver's take on the dealership, I agree with you, verdugo. Dealerships and their personnel never admit to lying or misleading customers - that's their stock in trade ( or is it stock and trade?).
It is way too late to change the lease agreement. As for a mistake in the money factor - no way - they knew what they were doing.
As far as going in to face the dealership, for what purpose? What is the expectation for the outcome? Best thing to do is TRASH them on the survey and move on.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mike, my thoughts are with you. Nobody deserves this, it unfortunately strikes at will and without any regard to who we are. Best you can do is keep hope.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Plus one
Stick - I'm so sorry to hear about your Mom's death.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
isell, did survey man get the lawnmower or not?
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I like those Hawks. Today I saw a bright red 1960 Chevy wagon inperfect condition, with white walls and all, and with kids in the back.....it looked like something right out of the 60s.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks Bradd. Appreciate the thoughts from you and everyone else.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Driver, you couldn't be more wrong. Caveat emptor.
Maybe in your world Verdugo....in my world I would reverse the extra charges. I would never want to be unfair to someone who trusts me enough to do business with me.
Call me foolish, that's OK, I think I will do better than the competition because word gets out that I can be trusted 100%.....and I sleep really well at night.
And, I have seen the cheaters and liars, here today and gone tomorrow, and they wonder why.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"Thanks Bradd. Appreciate the thoughts from you and everyone else."
I have been do engrossed in my own pity I overlooked your comment about your mom. My sincerest condolences and sympathy on the loss of your mom. Your memories of her will keep her close to your heart for as long as you live.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
One quick example of why I don't think that is a good way to do business.
We traded in our 1999 Mercedes for a 2003 Mercedes. We didn't realize until after the deal that we still had about a year and a half left on the extended warranty and that should have been a credit for us.
The paperwork was done and we didn't think of this until we went back to pick up the new car.
The salesman said there wasn't anything that could be done about it now. Well, I didn't look at another Mercedes - it just turned me off, for over 11 years. I didn't buy this car from that dealer.
I know it would be impossible to change the paperwork by the time we realized our mistake. But, a much better way for that dealer to make it up to us would be to offer that amount as a discount on our next car (and they would have had another sale, as well as a happy customer).
Or they could have given us service equivalent to that amount, and it would have cost them less than the full amount.
Why antagonize people when the dealership pulled the fast one......by accident or on purpose.
Too much business these days is the "got you" attitude. I would prefer to work on the principle that both parties come out winners.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The Invicta's looked like real good watches (felt well made and solid) however I really have to wonder about something they can sell lots of at deep discounts. There was another watch they had a sale on, it was a watch set where you got the watch and jewelry (for women) or a pen with either a wallet or business card holder (for men). They were labeled with a MSRP of $85.00 selling for $19.95. People were buying 3, 4 and even 5 watch sets, afterwards they had several left over and were still selling them at the $19.95 price and I took a look at them. they seemed to be real cheap, they had the feel of something that came out of a Cracker Jack box.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"...But, a much better way for that dealer to make it up to us would be to offer that amount as a discount on our next car (and they would have had another sale, as well as a happy customer). Or they could have given us service equivalent to that amount, and it would have cost them less than the full amount."
I agree with your comments driver, and I also agree that the dealer could have done something about your warranty balance - but in koctail's case, the way to communicate with underhanded crooks like that is to give them what they deserve - a horrible survey. That's the only thing they understand - a slap in the face for lying to and deceiving a customer.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Or they are just plain out lying, Some people will "bend" the truth to make themselves look like they are the big man on campus. It's just like the guy at the gym boasting that he can bench press twice his weight.
Good advice for just about anything.
True, if I went around telling everyone that not only did I get that brand new BMW 7 series for nothing but that the dealer gave me $100 to boot someone will say they got the same deal only the dealership gave them $200.
Lets face it, Ford will sell thousands of Mustang GT's with a certain option package priced at a certain MSRP and only one person will get the best deal. The thing is just get a good deal that you are happy with and don't worry that out there there is someone who paid $100 less.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
the thing is you are selling a functionally homogenous product, a base Civic is a base Civic is a base Civic. Once you are on the road your experience with the car isn't going to be influenced by what lot you drove off of. So while people might be loyal to a brand and that brand competes with others on many things (handling, performance, reliability, comfort and the like) the main thing dealerships compete with others selling the same brand is by price.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
mike and stick - so sorry to hear of your news.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
" the main thing dealerships compete with others selling the same brand is by price."
You are correct, but there are exceptions.
There's a dealership conglomerate down here that provides many services that lure lots if buyers to them. This conglomerate (Rick Case) has a Hyuandai, VW, Acura, Honda, etc., and at every one they offer:
Free Car Washes for life
They sell gasoline to their customers at 10 cents a gallon less than other gas stations for life
They offer free extended warrantees on the sale of every new car
They have restaurants and cafés at all dealerships and offer free bagels, cream cheese, Danish, cake, pie, lattes, etc.
They have work out gyms and and the like for their customers.
Free loaners for every service.
What I an trying to say is that sometimes the services offered at one dealership can be more important than saving $100 on a new car. It works for Rick Case - they opened their new Volkswagen dealership last November and are now #1 in sales, nationally for VW, Hyuandai, and Honda.
An amazing story of success for the company. They offer services that no other dealership offers to their customers.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
You didn't mention the free manicures and massages some dealers now offer (seriously!).
Sorry to hear the latest news (and you too Stick - we lost my MIL ~6 months ago and it still hasn't set in). I hate the "odds" info out there since the real results vary so much with "real" people (my mom and sister way beat the odds, but many others, like your daughter, don't). Day by day is about the best any of us can do.
Exactly. My BMW and Mazda dealer are honest and provide excellent service in addition to attractive perks. It's not worth throwing all that away to save a few dollars...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
"Exactly. My BMW and Mazda dealer are honest and provide excellent service in addition to attractive perks. It's not worth throwing all that away to save a few dollars..."
Agreed!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
IIRC Geico was repeatedly taken to court over dropping people simply because they used a radar detector and lost every one of them. So Geico stopped the practice.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Stick, my sincerest sympathies go out to you and your family. I lost my mother two years ago after a long battle with cancer. It's rough, I think of her quite often. Hell, I think of my father almost every day, and he has been gone for 22 years.
I have not lost a child, though. And I can't imagine how hard that would be. Losing your parents is the natural order of things, damned sure painful, but to be expected. Outliving your children is not, it is something horrendous. Mike, hang in there.
The thing about our balance of warranty was that was extra profit the dealer was going to make anyway....to me it is almost like theft that they would keep that money and not find a way to make it up to us - the salesman should have known about the warranty - it was in our file. The sales manager, who was the owners son, was an arrogant moron who lived a block away from us.
That's a case of now that I think of it, I should have talked to him about what was done. As you pointed out, people who lie or cheat or deceive don't care, they probably enjoy taking advantage (scr--ing) of a customer, but, I think it would have been good therapy for me to tell him why I wouldn't be buying another car from him.
Something else, some business people work on the principle that if they rip someone off they will be the winner - they will gain more (that's how my SIL thinks - the more he rips people off the more he will have, it works the opposite, and he spends half of his time trying to fix things and fielding complaints, and not many repeat customers). I think of business as a cooperative project....if I can give you the customer the best value possible (good price, good service, no hassle buying etc.) then why wouldn't you come back....unless you want to change brands, which is fair enough.
Mike, I am glad you understand my point about the warranty, and I know talking to the manager probably won't solve this fellows problem....but, I know, I feel better letting them know what I think. The problem with leaving it up to the survey is 1) the fellow may not get a survey 2) the dealer will say he is lying, he signed and now he is bitter...it's a he said they said and they will probably win.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If a dealer offers free gym sessions, free massages, free eats, etc that tells me they are making lots of extra profits to pay for all that. I would much rather have them offer excellent, competent, courteous, quick service on my vehicle rather than all that extraneous stuff that must (IMO) take away from what they are investing in their core business.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
As fast as posts are flying onto this forum again, we'll have to start a new one in a couple of months. This one's going to be too big quickly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Most Invicta watches are produced in China. At one time, Invicta was a quality Swiss company. Now it is an American based company. Some Invicta watches are still made in Switzerland and are fairly good. Many, however, are made in China and are of questionable quality. Invicta is known for having very inflated prices on its Chinese made watches which bear no resemblance to the actual quality of the watch. Invicta then sells the watch at its true value suggesting, to the uninformed, a steep discount.
Seriously, does anyone believe Invicta will sell a $750 watch for $100 or so? No company could do that and remain in business.
It's going to take awhile to get another 97K posts, given how long it's taken to get to 2800. It's interesting that there are ten times as many people reading this forum as there are people posting. Much higher ratio than with most of the boards.
Your son in law must be a hoot to deal with - real business sweetheart. I wonder where people get that idea - is it home or some special trauma they experiences, or is it something hereditary.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It's the old 80/20 rule, or 90/10 rule or whatever number you want to use.
All this watch talk makes me want to dig out my old Timex and wear it.
Nah.
I'm of two minds on the dealer facilities. If I have to go somewhere for service, like I did in Chattanooga a few months back, it's nice having a comfortable waiting area, decent coffee and good wifi. I was able to surf the whole time and get some work done.
But yeah, I overpaid and they didn't correctly fix the issue. The dealer was just the handiest stop.
Survey says (my survey will be the Yelps and ratings sites, after I email my complaint and see what response I get. Not sure I have the energy to backcharge it on my VISA and go that route for $100.) Back home my local guy chatted with me, looked at the car and sent me to Carquest across the street. Three minutes tops, and no charge by him.
my goal is to not visit the dealer again once I drive off with the car, any more than needed, which should be when it needs an oil change. And on the last new car, I don't even go to the dealer I got it at, and the one I use still treats me like a king.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I remember that. Which is why, to this day, I won't be a customer of Geico's. Same thing with plugging in their little "thingamajig" so they can track my driving habits. Not happening. Got too many red light cameras, sneaky police cruisers disguised as ordinary cars hiding in thickets to try to bust me speeding.
I'll do everything within my power to not only fight things like red-light cameras (RB, do you know what ever happened to the law suits stating those are unconstitutional?), sneaky speed traps and police ticket set ups.
Even those "drunk driving" commercials that they run showing police hiding, blending in with the background, waiting for you to do something wrong, remind me of a "[non-permissible content removed]-esk" totalitarian society. I don't care what message they're trying to send. It's not a very good one and really flies in the face of what we all believe. IT's almost like they're saying "watch your every move, because we certainly are." I thought we fought wars to thwart that behavior and thinking?
Actually they DO make the rules---most state laws about insurance regulation are in fact written by people (basically lobbyists) from the industry.
Stick,
Sorry to hear about you mom. Been there and even though it's been 20 years I still miss her.
It isn't hereditary...his father worked hard, was in a very tough business, - built it up, sold it for over $1 million dollars when $1 million was worth a lot. His father is 100% honest and decent and I believe that is why he was successful.
I have asked a psychiatrist friend about my SIL and his answer has to do with this; Since he never had to worry or think about money, he doesn't really get it's worth. If he wants something, he buys it. If he wants to fly to a hockey game in Tampa he'll buy a ticket and go....might cost $1000, but, he won't replace a $20 telephone because he doesn't want to spend money if he doesn't have to, and btw, that phone be worth a few $1000 in orders in a day.
He has an MBA too. In this case I think it is a handicap, because he only knows what he has been taught in school....he should have used his MBA to get a job at GM ordering parts. He would cut the suppliers down to the last penny and secure a good deal for GM. For running his own business, he has no concept of what people want or how to treat suppliers or customers.
I could write a book, "How Not to Run a Business" - Stories about my SIL.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My personal rule is to use the dealer for all maintenance items required excluding tires while the car is under warranty. That way hopefully the service writers get to recognize me a little and hopefully treat me better as a regular customer when I come in with a problem potentially under warranty. However after that all bets are off.
This week a good friend told me the latest in his continuing tale of woe regarding his Ford Ranger 4x4 pickup. He ordered this to his own spec - the top-line model (XLT?) which dealers here did not bring in for stock, 5-speed manual transmission. It is a 2010 so is now out of warranty, has 42,000 miles, mostly highway. They have a country place they are rebuilding about 90 minutes away and that is what they drive when they go there.
He had had all sorts of issues with this truck both in and out of warranty. He told me this week how he has spent a couple of thousand $ on it the last 2 years for brake work, which I find hard to believe. Apparently the rear discs are a problem. The latest was that the clutch failed this week. For whatever reason he took it to a Ford dealer and let them fix it. The cost was a cool $1800. This is with them selling him the parts at wholesale. Apparently 10 hours labor. Yikes.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
We're at 3300 so we must have got another 500 more today. How do you know there are 10X more readers than posters...is that the ratio they figured out?
Not to beat a dead horse, but today I saw a great example of fairness in business. I was at Tim Hortons getting a coffee and a bagel (I only eat half the bagel = 150 calories).
So a young lady is carrying a tray out with 4 coffees, she gets stuck between doors, drops the tray. The manager came out, said don't worry about it....gave her another complete order, and didn't charge her.
Using the deceitful car dealership as a comparison; Yes the lady bought and paid for the coffees so the store doesn't owe her a replacement order (the transaction is over - she should place another order and pay for it), BUT, the shop absorbed the cost (which is minimal, about 10 cents to make a $1.50 cent coffee), but, how much good will did the store get and good advertising - much more than replacing the coffees.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's what I would think too, but, I don't think it works that way necessarily. I was intimidated by the MB dealer where I bought the new "E". It is probably the fanciest dealer in North America, they have about 15 cars on display in pools of water. A full coffee and sandwich shop, gym, spa, TV room, service department has cleaner floors than most homes.
The deal went as smooth as could be, I couldn't have done better. It's a case of build a good dealership, treat the customers fairly, sell a lot more cars than you would have from a hole in the wall, and not only will it cover your costs, you will actually make more money. The old, you have to spend a buck to make a buck....if done properly it can really work.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
>
Sounds about the same as my friends 2004 Blazer. He bought it at the end of the line for a really cheap price....about $14K us ($16K Cdn).
He wants it to last for the rest of his life and it probably will....at least it has heavy metal and fairly simple. However, lots of things breakdown like even the door hinges, they aren't strong enough considering the weight of the doors.
Before that he had a Ford Tempo that cost him more in repairs than it would have cost to buy a new car. At least I convinced him to drop the Tempo and although the Blazer isn't the ultimate in car design and engineering, with some help, it could last a few decades.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The place I just retired from (NSLC, the provincial liquor retailer) does that too. We get people who buy a case of beer and have the case rip open as they are going through the parking lot. Or they drop the bag with a bottle of whatever in it the same way. If the store staff witness it they usually just replace it. The profit margin is high enough that it is worth it for the goodwill it generates.
I would much rather have a car dealership do something similar, go good for items that are somewhat questionable as to cause, instead of spending that money building a spa. I will never use the spa, but I may well appreciate them covering something on my car that I might otherwise need to pay for.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6