Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

verdugo

andres3 said:

First, the Europeans can get a turbo to last more than 3,000 miles, apparently the Mexicans can't. I'm not being racist, just an observation about the GTI having turbo issues. Audi far exceeds VW in CR on reliability, is it just place of assembly, quality control, or something else more to it?

Full disclosure, I flagged Andres' post.

His statement is all sorts of wrong. If you have to add "I'm not being racist," you are probably being racist (although, in this case it might be Xenophobic.)

Since I refuse to feed the trolls, I'm not going to refute it.

I wonder what he'll think when Audi starts building cars in Mexico?

PS Mods, when will we get an ignore feature?

Mr_Shiftright

You hear this type of thing all over the Internet, but it doesn't make any sense when you consider the number of cars that are made, or were recently made, in Mexico, and that these vehicles don't seem to be falling apart by the side of the road.

Automakers now have 18 factories in Mexico, and total production of cars in Mexico is expected to reach just under 5 million annually by 2022.

So unless automakers are willingly financing their own doom, perhaps they know something about the quality (and value) of Mexican labor that the occasionally skeptical car buyer does not know.

Cadillac SRX:

Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab

Dodge Journey:

Ram-2500-3500 Ram Pickup and Promaster:

Fiat 500:

Ford Fiesta:

Ford Fusion:

Honda Fit:

Honda HR-V:

Lincoln MKZ:

Mazda3:

Mazda2:

Nissan Sentra:

Nissan Versa Note:

Nissan Versa Sedan:

roadburner

With all the talk of the passing of Muhammad Ali I thought some of you might enjoy this story....
Back when he was still Cassius Clay he got stopped for speeding in my home county. His attorney was an old law school friend of my father so he called Dad to see what could be done. Dad got the County Judge to "file it away" and when Dad's friend asked how much Clay owed him Dad said, "Have him send me an autographed picture." I still have it, and the autograph reads:

"To ***** ******,
A Good Lawyer
From
Cassius Clay
Next Champ
Liston in Six
1963"

28firefighter

I'm not going to feed the GTI reliability comments, because I'm sure it is simply from my comment in CCBA about my car having some boost issues at 3000 miles.

I'll also point out that my Dad has driven Audi vehicles my entire life, including an Audi Allroad 6spd with the twin-turbo engine that needed an entire new block because it threw a rod. European Audi and VW vehicles aren't perfect either and to expect otherwise is going to leave someone very disappointed. 

A sample size of one does not reflect an entire model or brand. 

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

You hear this type of thing all over the Internet, but it doesn't make any sense when you consider the number of cars that are made, or were recently made, in Mexico, and that these vehicles don't seem to be falling apart by the side of the road.

Automakers now have 18 factories in Mexico, and total production of cars in Mexico is expected to reach just under 5 million annually by 2022.

So unless automakers are willingly financing their own doom, perhaps they know something about the quality (and value) of Mexican labor that the occasionally skeptical car buyer does not know.

I will say that I read a couple of stories on a Fiesta ST forum that did give me pause...

In one case the owner took delivery and noticed that the under-dash lights weren't working. Further examination revealed that the lights weren't just missing, the harness plugs that the lights connect to had been cut off. The Ford dealer accused the buyer of cutting them off.

In the other case the new ST was missing the console mounted ESC defeat button. The dealer initially claimed that Fiesta ST didn't have a defeat button, but the buyer didn't back down and found an ST on the lot that had the button. Turned out the harness was in place under the blanking plate so a new button plugged right in. Whether the harness was connected to anything at the other end was an open question.

As an aside that level of dealer incompetence is only exceeded by MY local Ford dealers- a factor that weighed against my consideration of a Mustang, but I digress...

Mr_Shiftright

Well until someone on the 'Net can produce warranty stats that show, beyond statistical error, that there are significantly more claims made on Mexico-produced cars (over time) than on American or European versions of the same model car, then it's all just speculative talk isn't it?

I'd imagine any brand-new factory is going to have some production issues in the early stages of coming up to speed.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

That car depreciates at about $30,000 per year.

The home increases by about that same amount!

driver100

One other thought about buying a $368000 car. I used to think that you were being prudent if your car cost about 50% of one years salary....so if you make $100k you should be able to safely buy a $50k car with normal household bills (just a simple Driver Rule of Thumb Rule about Household Finances).

So, if a guy makes $1 million a year, or has $20 million in his account, he can certainly buy a $368k car and not worry about it....and why wouldn't he buy it, what else will he do with that money?

Mr_Shiftright

I recently saw a 2007 RR cabriolet for sale, and it had depreciated at least $30,000 a year---and it had only 4,600 miles on it. So $250,000 to go 4,600 miles? With that type of spending, $20 million is not going to last you very long. There have been plenty of sports stars that burned up way more than that in a few years.

driver100

verdugo said:

andres3 said:

First, the Europeans can get a turbo to last more than 3,000 miles, apparently the Mexicans can't. I'm not being racist, just an observation about the GTI having turbo issues. Audi far exceeds VW in CR on reliability, is it just place of assembly, quality control, or something else more to it?

Full disclosure, I flagged Andres' post.

His statement is all sorts of wrong. If you have to add "I'm not being racist," you are probably being racist (although, in this case it might be Xenophobic.)

Since I refuse to feed the trolls, I'm not going to refute it.

I wonder what he'll think when Audi starts building cars in Mexico?

PS Mods, when will we get an ignore feature?

Good point verdugo..........in this article they say there is absolutely no difference in cars made in Mexico'
ARE CARS MADE IN MEXICO RELIABLE

Some of the early cars may have been a bit rough...VW Fox comes to mind, but so were early Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais a bit rough, as with most businesses, if they want to survive they have to start making a better product.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

I recently saw a 2007 RR cabriolet for sale, and it had depreciated at least $30,000 a year---and it had only 4,600 miles on it. So $250,000 to go 4,600 miles? With that type of spending, $20 million is not going to last you very long. There have been plenty of sports stars that burned up way more than that in a few years.

But he had the car for almost 10 years, that's probably less than $15k a year in depreciation. My depreciation is probably $6 - $7k a year, and I don't make $ 1 million a year. That guy won't go broke - at least not because of his RR.

(not sure if he is selling it for $250k, but he probably paid just over $300k for it...if that's the case his depreciation isn't too bad at all.

Mr_Shiftright

MSRP was $377,000, on sale asking price is $137,000.

So yeah, the depreciation in this case was pretty bad--especially if you consider that the extra low miles of 4,600 is probably bumping up the asking price.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

Sometimes floods are fresh water, and sometimes salt water. Phoenix flood was fresh water, Hurricane Sandy was salt water, Katrina was a mixture. The problem is if the salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is unlikely to be repaired properly.

When these companies test oil and transmission fluids, they are looking for signs of salt and other hazardous materials in the car....these cannot be detected from the exterior. Even fresh water can be a problem depending on how much silt and other chemicals were in the water....this can be detected by testing the oil and transmission.

btw....cars can have a good Carfax report, but there are people who change VIN numbers etc. and resell flood cars.

Salt water flooding comes mainly from two things, storm surges and areas lower than sea level losing their protection from the sea (think Katrina). Both tend to be somewhat localized. Most of your flooding, even with hurricanes, comes from massive rains which the rivers and man made drainage systems cannot handle.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

On a brighter note, I thought I'd give a report on the new Audi now that I'm just about halfway to my first 5 mile oil change.

Third, averaging 24 MPG.

Does anyone know what personalized plates cost in CA?

First why did you buy a car that needs an oil change every 5 miles?

Second since you are half way to your fir 5 mile oil change you have only driven 2.5 miles, so how do you know you're getting 24 MPG?

Now seriously: the CA DMV website should answer your questions regarding personalized plates.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

That car depreciates at about $30,000 per year.

Yeah but that kind o car is owned by people who pay $60,000+ in property taxes each year.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

I will say that I read a couple of stories on a Fiesta ST forum that did give me pause...

I will say that if I avoided all the cars I have heard at least a few horror stories about I would be walking everywhere.

houdini1

I am an old guy who grew up in the backwoods of Arkansas. Obviously, in my early years I was exposed to a lot of, uh, non-politically correct behavior. If I have learned anything in my 73 years it is that people, no matter the race, are pretty much the same.

All human beings are capable of a wide range of behavior, from extremely good and selfless, to the utmost depravity, from very intelligent to not so intelligent...good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things. Most of us fall somewhere in the mid part of the scale...and race is not the determining factor of where we fall on the scale.

Read any newspaper and you can see that many, many people suffer from abuse. It happens. That said, if I get my feelings hurt by someone or something, I certainly don't think that rises to the level of abuse. Maybe we shouldn't have an abuse button, just a disagree button.

roadburner

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

I will say that I read a couple of stories on a Fiesta ST forum that did give me pause...

I will say that if I avoided all the cars I have heard at least a few horror stories about I would be walking everywhere.

I agree, you will hear stories about every car, but these were more than a little odd- missing parts(I forgot to mention another ST was delivered missing several indicator lamps) and harnesses cut? How many other stories like that have you heard/read? And then there was also the salient fact that the Fiesta sits at the bottom of almost every reliability survey.

carnaught

"Maybe we shouldn't have an abuse button, just a disagree button."

Totally agree.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Sometimes floods are fresh water, and sometimes salt water. Phoenix flood was fresh water, Hurricane Sandy was salt water, Katrina was a mixture. The problem is if the salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is unlikely to be repaired properly.

When these companies test oil and transmission fluids, they are looking for signs of salt and other hazardous materials in the car....these cannot be detected from the exterior. Even fresh water can be a problem depending on how much silt and other chemicals were in the water....this can be detected by testing the oil and transmission.

btw....cars can have a good Carfax report, but there are people who change VIN numbers etc. and resell flood cars.

Salt water flooding comes mainly from two things, storm surges and areas lower than sea level losing their protection from the sea (think Katrina). Both tend to be somewhat localized. Most of your flooding, even with hurricanes, comes from massive rains which the rivers and man made drainage systems cannot handle.

Probably all true....still, if a guys car is in a salt water flood zone, and salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is not salvageable. If he cleans it up and sells it on CL or takes it to another part of the country he could be selling a car that it is almost impossible to detect whether it has salt inside the engine/transmission. Just saying, if you buy a used car privately you are taking a risk. Some cases aren't just salt water, it can be a chemical or backed up sewer problem. Agree chance of this happening aren't great, but, I still wouldn't want to buy one of those cars.

abacomike

verdugo said:

There is a Rolls Royce Wraith on display at the Boca Raton Town Center Mall.  The MSRP is $368,000.
When a car costs as much as a new home, it's time to reconsider one's priorities.

However, somebody looking to buy a $368,000 car is not buying a $368,000 home.

This is true!

driver100

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

I will say that I read a couple of stories on a Fiesta ST forum that did give me pause...

I will say that if I avoided all the cars I have heard at least a few horror stories about I would be walking everywhere.

I agree, you will hear stories about every car, but these were more than a little odd- missing parts(I forgot to mention another ST was delivered missing several indicator lamps) and harnesses cut? How many other stories like that have you heard/read? And then there was also the salient fact that the Fiesta sits at the bottom of almost every reliability survey.

Fiesta being at the bottom of a reliability test is probably more Ford's fault than the country of origin. As to missing parts etc., that could have happened anywhere along the delivery line including the dealers lot. Mike had an MB that wasn't built properly....probably shouldn't remind him. I was once tempted to buy a 1979 Firebird brand new at the time....the rear logo was put on way off center and it turned me off....bought a Cutlass instead. I have heard horror stories about many brands, but it is all hearsay evidence unless it can be proven in court (as you know).

abacomike

driver100 said:

One other thought about buying a $368000 car. I used to think that you were being prudent if your car cost about 50% of one years salary....so if you make $100k you should be able to safely buy a $50k car with normal household bills (just a simple Driver Rule of Thumb Rule about Household Finances). So, if a guy makes $1 million a year, or has $20 million in his account, he can certainly buy a $368k car and not worry about it....and why wouldn't he buy it, what else will he do with that money?

He could give it to me! 

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

One other thought about buying a $368000 car. I used to think that you were being prudent if your car cost about 50% of one years salary....so if you make $100k you should be able to safely buy a $50k car with normal household bills (just a simple Driver Rule of Thumb Rule about Household Finances).

So, if a guy makes $1 million a year, or has $20 million in his account, he can certainly buy a $368k car and not worry about it....and why wouldn't he buy it, what else will he do with that money?

He could give it to me!

 

You need it less than anyone here....considering you have the newest car with the lowest mileage.

abacomike

driver100 said:

driver100 said:

One other thought about buying a $368000 car. I used to think that you were being prudent if your car cost about 50% of one years salary....so if you make $100k you should be able to safely buy a $50k car with normal household bills (just a simple Driver Rule of Thumb Rule about Household Finances). So, if a guy makes $1 million a year, or has $20 million in his account, he can certainly buy a $368k car and not worry about it....and why wouldn't he buy it, what else will he do with that money?

He could give it to me!

 

You need it less than anyone here....considering you have the newest car with the lowest mileage.

Ya think? 

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well until someone on the 'Net can produce warranty stats that show, beyond statistical error, that there are significantly more claims made on Mexico-produced cars (over time) than on American or European versions of the same model car, then it's all just speculative talk isn't it?

I'd imagine any brand-new factory is going to have some production issues in the early stages of coming up to speed.

Didn't one of Mike's MBs come from the factory with some equipment missing? My wife's PT which was built in Mexico had some glitches which could have been poor quality control or transit damage. Who knows.

I'm not sure it's fair to slam all cars from a particular country but I don't necessarily think it's racist either. If it were then the Italians who build Fiats would have the biggest gripe.

cdnpinhead

Fix it Again Tony.

PF_Flyer

isellhondas said:

PF_Flyer said:

suydam said:

I'm out on a little trip out to SoCal before our move and as a rental I got a Nissan Versa Note. I really didn't know anything about this vehicle but it's growing on me. I'm doing a lot of driving that involves negotiating narrow streets and parking lots as well as freeway stretches to get to various places. It handles all of this with ease. It has good visibility, and fits well in the tiny condo space allotted to a second car out here. Great gas mileage. I'm about to find out how it handles a Costco supply trip. Basically I've got a 4 day road test with it in exactly the conditions I'll be driving in. I think we could buy a very nicely equipped one for the amount we sold the Accord, which is also attractive.

We have a little over 60K on our Note. I think you'll be happy with the amount of Costco supplies you'll be able to fit inside.

So, are you making "notes" on your Note?

Yep, Note notes

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

MSRP was $377,000, on sale asking price is $137,000.

So yeah, the depreciation in this case was pretty bad--especially if you consider that the extra low miles of 4,600 is probably bumping up the asking price.

Speaking of depreciation, which of these low milage beauties would you choose? I'm thinking of replacing my son's 1998 Lasabre.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5611423136.html




https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5617748409.html

PF_Flyer

The evening mulch update.. I got my driveway back

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Speaking of depreciation, which of these low milage beauties would you choose? I'm thinking of replacing my son's 1998 Lasabre.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5611423136.html




https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5617748409.html

I always had a soft spot for those Olds 88s and that seems like a nice survivor. But at almost 20 model years old it may be a bit of a gamble. I am not enamored with that style of Lesabre and it needs more pics/info.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Sometimes floods are fresh water, and sometimes salt water. Phoenix flood was fresh water, Hurricane Sandy was salt water, Katrina was a mixture. The problem is if the salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is unlikely to be repaired properly.

When these companies test oil and transmission fluids, they are looking for signs of salt and other hazardous materials in the car....these cannot be detected from the exterior. Even fresh water can be a problem depending on how much silt and other chemicals were in the water....this can be detected by testing the oil and transmission.

btw....cars can have a good Carfax report, but there are people who change VIN numbers etc. and resell flood cars.

Salt water flooding comes mainly from two things, storm surges and areas lower than sea level losing their protection from the sea (think Katrina). Both tend to be somewhat localized. Most of your flooding, even with hurricanes, comes from massive rains which the rivers and man made drainage systems cannot handle.

Probably all true....still, if a guys car is in a salt water flood zone, and salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is not salvageable. If he cleans it up and sells it on CL or takes it to another part of the country he could be selling a car that it is almost impossible to detect whether it has salt inside the engine/transmission. Just saying, if you buy a used car privately you are taking a risk. Some cases aren't just salt water, it can be a chemical or backed up sewer problem. Agree chance of this happening aren't great, but, I still wouldn't want to buy one of those cars.

I contention from the original post was that it seemed to focus on salt which I don't think it would show up on most flood damaged cars. but regardless of it being salt, fresh or sparkling clean spring water I wouldn't want a flood damaged car.

Mr_Shiftright

Olds is hard to beat for the money but good luck finding trim pieces. You'll be doing more junkyard searches in the Olds than in the Buick I think. Heck, two one-ton boulders delivered to your house could cost as much as that car. The downside is that if you can't find all the parts you need after say an accident, you might end up with a car about as useless as two one-ton boulders. I'm sure Olds owners are pickin' the yards clean as we speak.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well until someone on the 'Net can produce warranty stats that show, beyond statistical error, that there are significantly more claims made on Mexico-produced cars (over time) than on American or European versions of the same model car, then it's all just speculative talk isn't it?

I'd imagine any brand-new factory is going to have some production issues in the early stages of coming up to speed.

Didn't one of Mike's MBs come from the factory with some equipment missing? My wife's PT which was built in Mexico had some glitches which could have been poor quality control or transit damage. Who knows.

I'm not sure it's fair to slam all cars from a particular country but I don't necessarily think it's racist either. If it were then the Italians who build Fiats would have the biggest gripe.

Italians who built Fiats? To that I have a one word reply Lada.

driver100

Oldfarmer, the Olds is a little long in the tooth, for not a lot more the Buick is a lot newer. The Olds looks nicer, those Buicks trying to look like Jaguars aren't the handsomest cars. Check to make sure they weren't flood cars.

Mr_Shiftright

If you drive a Mercedes, chances are pretty good that a Turk or Italian built part of it. I think Turks are the largest immigrant labor force in Germany, and I'm sure Italians and Slavs are not too far behind. They came in the 60s, and many stayed to raise families, and now the sons and daughters are in the workforce.

I think it's all about management and training. Honda and BMW certainly proved that you can train American workers to do a great job.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Sometimes floods are fresh water, and sometimes salt water. Phoenix flood was fresh water, Hurricane Sandy was salt water, Katrina was a mixture. The problem is if the salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is unlikely to be repaired properly.

When these companies test oil and transmission fluids, they are looking for signs of salt and other hazardous materials in the car....these cannot be detected from the exterior. Even fresh water can be a problem depending on how much silt and other chemicals were in the water....this can be detected by testing the oil and transmission.

btw....cars can have a good Carfax report, but there are people who change VIN numbers etc. and resell flood cars.

Salt water flooding comes mainly from two things, storm surges and areas lower than sea level losing their protection from the sea (think Katrina). Both tend to be somewhat localized. Most of your flooding, even with hurricanes, comes from massive rains which the rivers and man made drainage systems cannot handle.

Probably all true....still, if a guys car is in a salt water flood zone, and salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is not salvageable. If he cleans it up and sells it on CL or takes it to another part of the country he could be selling a car that it is almost impossible to detect whether it has salt inside the engine/transmission. Just saying, if you buy a used car privately you are taking a risk. Some cases aren't just salt water, it can be a chemical or backed up sewer problem. Agree chance of this happening aren't great, but, I still wouldn't want to buy one of those cars.

I contention from the original post was that it seemed to focus on salt which I don't think it would show up on most flood damaged cars. but regardless of it being salt, fresh or sparkling clean spring water I wouldn't want a flood damaged car.

They said salt or other contaminates could be in up to 14% of used cars with over 90k miles, 8% with over 50k miles. Up to is a bit deceiving, that could mean 1% I guess. Whatever the %, I'd be careful buying a used car.....some people will try anything to sell a car. I wouldn't trust any car that has been water logged, some things are too hard to fix, like electronics, wiring, even mold in upholstery.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

If you drive a Mercedes, chances are pretty good that a Turk or Italian built part of it. I think Turks are the largest immigrant labor force in Germany, and I'm sure Italians and Slavs are not too far behind. They came in the 60s, and many stayed to raise families, and now the sons and daughters are in the workforce.

I think it's all about management and training. Honda and BMW certainly proved that you can train American workers to do a great job.

That's true. I believe about 50% of the employees at Mercedes are foreign. But, they have 3 years of training, so they are pretty competent by the time they are making cars.
It has a lot to do with training....and how good those robots are.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Sometimes floods are fresh water, and sometimes salt water. Phoenix flood was fresh water, Hurricane Sandy was salt water, Katrina was a mixture. The problem is if the salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is unlikely to be repaired properly.

When these companies test oil and transmission fluids, they are looking for signs of salt and other hazardous materials in the car....these cannot be detected from the exterior. Even fresh water can be a problem depending on how much silt and other chemicals were in the water....this can be detected by testing the oil and transmission.

btw....cars can have a good Carfax report, but there are people who change VIN numbers etc. and resell flood cars.

Salt water flooding comes mainly from two things, storm surges and areas lower than sea level losing their protection from the sea (think Katrina). Both tend to be somewhat localized. Most of your flooding, even with hurricanes, comes from massive rains which the rivers and man made drainage systems cannot handle.

Probably all true....still, if a guys car is in a salt water flood zone, and salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is not salvageable. If he cleans it up and sells it on CL or takes it to another part of the country he could be selling a car that it is almost impossible to detect whether it has salt inside the engine/transmission. Just saying, if you buy a used car privately you are taking a risk. Some cases aren't just salt water, it can be a chemical or backed up sewer problem. Agree chance of this happening aren't great, but, I still wouldn't want to buy one of those cars.

I contention from the original post was that it seemed to focus on salt which I don't think it would show up on most flood damaged cars. but regardless of it being salt, fresh or sparkling clean spring water I wouldn't want a flood damaged car.

They said salt or other contaminates could be in up to 14% of used cars with over 90k miles, 8% with over 50k miles. Up to is a bit deceiving, that could mean 1% I guess. Whatever the %, I'd be careful buying a used car.....some people will try anything to sell a car. I wouldn't trust any car that has been water logged, some things are too hard to fix, like electronics, wiring, even mold in upholstery.

Yeah I agree that "up to" is deceiving, like dead mob snitch's could be in the trunks of up to 100% of used cars.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Sometimes floods are fresh water, and sometimes salt water. Phoenix flood was fresh water, Hurricane Sandy was salt water, Katrina was a mixture. The problem is if the salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is unlikely to be repaired properly.

When these companies test oil and transmission fluids, they are looking for signs of salt and other hazardous materials in the car....these cannot be detected from the exterior. Even fresh water can be a problem depending on how much silt and other chemicals were in the water....this can be detected by testing the oil and transmission.

btw....cars can have a good Carfax report, but there are people who change VIN numbers etc. and resell flood cars.

Salt water flooding comes mainly from two things, storm surges and areas lower than sea level losing their protection from the sea (think Katrina). Both tend to be somewhat localized. Most of your flooding, even with hurricanes, comes from massive rains which the rivers and man made drainage systems cannot handle.

Probably all true....still, if a guys car is in a salt water flood zone, and salt water gets into the engine or transmission, the car is not salvageable. If he cleans it up and sells it on CL or takes it to another part of the country he could be selling a car that it is almost impossible to detect whether it has salt inside the engine/transmission. Just saying, if you buy a used car privately you are taking a risk. Some cases aren't just salt water, it can be a chemical or backed up sewer problem. Agree chance of this happening aren't great, but, I still wouldn't want to buy one of those cars.

I contention from the original post was that it seemed to focus on salt which I don't think it would show up on most flood damaged cars. but regardless of it being salt, fresh or sparkling clean spring water I wouldn't want a flood damaged car.

They said salt or other contaminates could be in up to 14% of used cars with over 90k miles, 8% with over 50k miles. Up to is a bit deceiving, that could mean 1% I guess. Whatever the %, I'd be careful buying a used car.....some people will try anything to sell a car. I wouldn't trust any car that has been water logged, some things are too hard to fix, like electronics, wiring, even mold in upholstery.

You seem to have the same phobia about flood cars that I have about buying a used performance car.

Aren't there some tricks you can use to detect flood damage like checking out the seat slider rails for rust or sniffing the carpet for musty smells?

Mr_Shiftright

Depends how thorough the detailers were. On a really valuable car, it might pay for them to really take the pains to hide everything they can.

abacomike

When I was in the car business, appraising vehicles was the most difficult and potentially costly activity I was involved in. One mistake and it could cost the dealership thousands of dollars in vehicle trade losses.

I remember one situation that occurred several months after Katrina hit New Orleans.  I was appraising a 2005 BMW 5 series out on the lot.  I opened the driver's door to verify the odometer reading and to take it for a quick test drive.  It was supposedly only 8 months old and according to the owner, he just couldn't afford the payments and wanted to get into a G35.  As I closed the driver's door and started it up, I smelled a musty odor coming from inside the car.  Living in Florida, you become sensitive to the smell of mold.

I turned the engine off and went back inside to check a CARFAX.  It showed the car was purchased in Gretna, LA, in April, 2005.  It then showed a new title being issued to the same owner in Florida.  It hit me right away - this was a hurrucane Katrina survivor, but there was nothing on the CARFAX showing repairs or reconditioning.

I asked the owner if the car received any damage in the hurricane in the New Orleans area.  He said, "...how did you know the car was in New Orleans during Katrina?..."  I merely responded by telling him about the musty odor in his car and the fact that the car was purchased in the spring of 2005 in the New Orleans area and had been registered in Jefferson Parish.

The customer agreed that the car had suffered some slight water seepage while the car was parked in his driveway.  They had moved to south Florida to get away from the mess the hurricane had caused.

I explained to him that I could not give him wholesale value for his trade - that because of the mold and potential for rust, I could not accept his car in trade.  In fact, I warned him that he needed to notify the Florida DMV that his car had sustained water infiltration due to flooding.  This guy could have been in big trouble if it was discovered "after the fact" that he withheld information about damage to his car.

It's just a good thing I stuck my nose in the car - with such a new car, normally I would spend most of my time checking for exterior damage or refinishing. 

graphicguy

Mike....I knew I read someone's report on the C300. Thanks!

Again, easy to see where Benz spent their money....it was on the styling, which is fetching. I would imagine that your car, and driver's car drive much differently.

Pretty big difference in the C300 sport I test drove a couple of times, and the base model I drove earlier in the week. But, that's probably the difference between a $50K C300 and the $40K C300 I just drove.

Not in the market, as I just have 6K miles on the CTS, and this one I like, quite a bit.

But, looking into the GG crystal ball, I'd still say a Jag (X or F Sport Lexus would be somewhere on the shopping list down the line.

graphicguy

OF....go withn the Buick. Neither is collectible. But the Buick brand is still made....possibly worth more than Oldsmobile, which hasn't been made in several years.

stickguy

I still really like the style of the prior generation C class, though I have never driven either one. But, by the time I am ready to buy, those will be getting fairly old (2014s when the 2018s will be out). At least the E class went through 2015.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Speaking of depreciation, which of these low milage beauties would you choose? I'm thinking of replacing my son's 1998 Lasabre.

I'd go with the leSabre. It has an opening in the trunk for easier access if the fuel pump ever needs to be replaced. Seeing that car makes me homesick for my leSabre '03 with that pleasant leather interior...

sda

Everything being equal my preference would be the Olds. However, with the Olds being 8 years older than the Buick, I would pursue the Buick.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

Depends how thorough the detailers were. On a really valuable car, it might pay for them to really take the pains to hide everything they can.

Another reason to buy old hoopties. No one would spend the time to hide flood damage and if by chance you find yourself stuck with one you park it, take the plates and go home.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

OF....go withn the Buick. Neither is collectible. But the Buick brand is still made....possibly worth more than Oldsmobile, which hasn't been made in several years.

Almost nothing I buy is collectable. Except maybe by the garbage man.

In this case the purchase would be for cheap reliable transportation. My son actually prefers soft riding grandpa cars. (Another reason I suspect he was switched at birth). Those two cars are almost identical mechanically. I believe both have the series II 3.8L. I'm sure a 2005 would have some more sophisticated electronics but most parts are interchangeable. Just like my GMC van is a Chevey except for the name plate.

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

Depends how thorough the detailers were. On a really valuable car, it might pay for them to really take the pains to hide everything they can.

Another reason to buy old hoopties. No one would spend the time to hide flood damage and if by chance you find yourself stuck with one you park it, take the plates and go home.

I don't think that would work, OF.  The VIN# would lead them right back to you so they could require you to remove the vehicle and dispose of it legally.  Right?