Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

Someone told me this youtube video shows an aluminum built Ford truck is not as sturdy as a Chevy truck.....Did Ford make a big mistake going with aluminum? And why is this ad on youtube and not for example on TV?

https://youtu.be/BTm2F4ysQrE

explorerx4

The sales number say going to aluminum is not a mistake.
A bed liner will save a lot of wear and tear on either vehicle.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stever said:

C'mon, you know you can't convince other people about "science" (or much of anything else).

Otherwise the 3,000 mile oil change joints would all fold.

I'd eat dirt before I give up my 3000 mile Dino oil changes.

I don't want to shatter your illusions, but the oil comes from plants, not dinosaurs. Aw, you knew that! So it should be your "veggie" oil changes

Just my way of diferentiateing the two types of oil veggie/synthetic. The synthetic I change at 5000 miles.

roadburner

The shortest oil change interval I'd run with conventional oil is 5k miles. With synthetic I'm comfortable up to a 15k interval- when backed up by a used oil analysis.

bwia

Mr_Shiftright said:

bwia said:

Way, way off topic but let me indulge for a minute.

I am an airplane enthusiast and I stumbled upon a story about a $400 million British funded airport that is officially opened but not operational because of excessive wind shear. How could this happen you may ask, well someone did the wind studies and measurements away from the airport site. **it happens.

This airport happens to be on the island of St. Helena in the southern Atlantic, the most remote inhabited place on the planet. And here are two interesting facts that I learned. Napoleon Bonaparte was exiled to St. Helena where he died in 1815. The other fact I learned is that the world's oldest living creature, a tortoise, named "Jonathan" lives on the island. He is estimated to be 184 years old.

The French say that Bonaparte died there of English cooking.....'jes sayin'.......

Not really, it is believed that Napoleon died from regret after realizing that he had sold the Louisiana territories for a pittance of three cents an acre. And furthermore he may have been poisoned by his own hands from eating canned foods, a process he first introduced to his own soldiers on the battlefield.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh he was far cagier than that. It was actually a good tactical and strategic move for him, given the time period. He just ran out of time before his scheme came to fruition.

murphydog

Just back from a 600 mile loop in Eastern Washington. Took the North Cascades Highway all the way to Republic. Tooled around several forest service roads, and made it to the site of the former Quartz Ridge Fire lookout. I gotta say the X3 was flawless and amazing. Comfortable on the road, and easily made it up the bumps and ruts of the dirt roads. Averaged 25 MPG. Not too shappy

fordfool

roadburner said:

My history teacher was British so instead of teaching about the Revolutionary
War, he taught about the "Rebellion of the Colonies."

Now, off to see the fireworks!

driver100

Someone asked lately, if car dealers can sell cars that have safety recall notices on them. Apparently they can, according to this CBS News report.

CAN CAR DEALERS SELL CARS THAT HAVE BEEN RECALLED

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Speaking of lavatories ... I just bought a new toilet seat with blue LED lighting.

Pretty neat I must say, but unfortunately I created a monster for myself as my wife says I have no excuse to spray the floor with my nocturnal emissions. So now, I have to mop the floor myself, but when the batteries go I will just have to pee in the dark.

We have this new invention in our bathroom, it sits on the wall and when you move it the whole bathroom gets flooded with light. Move it back to it's original position and the light goes away. I think it's called a light switch. We even have another invention that keeps the light from spilling out of the room, that one is called a door.

bwia

Touchè

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

Someone told me this youtube video shows an aluminum built Ford truck is not as sturdy as a Chevy truck.....Did Ford make a big mistake going with aluminum? And why is this ad on youtube and not for example on TV?

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.

stever

fordfool said:

My history teacher was British so instead of teaching about the Revolutionary War, he taught about the "Rebellion of the Colonies."

Growing up in the Deep South, we were taught about the War of Northern Aggression. Not many of us were fooled though.

Up until last month rental car companies didn't have to have recall work done before renting out cars. (NHTSA)

driver100

bwia said:

Touchè

Should be "tushie"

driver100

stever said:

fordfool said:

My history teacher was British so instead of teaching about the Revolutionary War, he taught about the "Rebellion of the Colonies."

Up until last month rental car companies didn't have to have recall work done before renting out cars. (NHTSA)

I suppose, the arguement could be made, if you had owned the car you would be driving it until you took it in for a recall repair anyway. So, technically you are just driving it until you get it looked after.

It would be nice if all recalls were listed...say on the window sticker, and if they are checked off or not. Should be pretty easy to do, and would give the consumer more information about how the car was cared for.

driver100

Here is an example of what I call "False Economizing";

Grandson is 25 yrs old...really good kid. Got his CA certificate, makes $65k a year in year 2.
Has a girlfriend, takes a bus to work to save money to buy a house.
Comes to visit his parents last two weekends, comes on a bus.
Both weekends he needs a ride, about 20 miles to the bus depot so he can get a bus home (parents have to get to work so we are asked to drive him - don't mind helping him but I think this is insane).

I know he is a good kid and he wants to save money to buy a house......good plan.
BUT,
Life goes on. You can't stop everything to try to reach a financial goal. And, you can't make everyone else look after you while you are fulfilling your goals. Besides all that, what if he is at work and they want to send him out to see a client (does he take the bus), what if the boss wants to talk over something at lunch - and suggests he drive?
If I had an accountant employee who made that kind of money, and if they didn't own a car, I would really wonder about their attitude toward life...and money.
I would find it very hard to live without a car. I have had a car since I was 18 and I have never been without a car since,,,,and there were times I was making little money or had lost my job. The car allowed me to find a new job and to get to work once I did have a job. A car is a necessity....I would say I would feel like a nobody without a car. Even if I'm not driving it, I have to know it is there so I have the freedom to go somewhere if I want to.

There is economizing, and their is living. I say, live life to the max, within reason, better to use your money to live well than to sacrifice living in order to save. Saving is important, goals are important, but there is a balance!

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Someone told me this youtube video shows an aluminum built Ford truck is not as sturdy as a Chevy truck.....Did Ford make a big mistake going with aluminum? And why is this ad on youtube and not for example on TV?

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.

I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly. I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV. They may not want to get in a negative brawl with each other. The Chev may hold up when bricks are loaded into it......but, the Ford may have advantages if something else is used, or in how the things are placed in the bed.

I am skeptical but there must be some truth to it...it was on the internet

ab348

driver100 said:

I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly. I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV. They may not want to get in a negative brawl with each other. The Chev may hold up when bricks are loaded into it......but, the Ford may have advantages if something else is used, or in how the things are placed in the bed.

I am skeptical but there must be some truth to it...it was on the internet

A shorter version of the ad aired on TV a few weeks ago but I have not seen it lately. It is a pretty powerful indictment of the Ford box construction. I think the landscape block example is pretty extreme but the toolbox demo was pretty damning.

nyccarguy

The point is that the majority of pickup owners spending upwards of $40K to $50K on a truck for work will most likely have a spray on bed liner installed. Also, nobody drops concrete blocks from 5' up in the air.

Like @explorerx4 said: look at the sales numbers. Aluminum body trucks with turbo V6 engines outsell steel body trucks with push rod V8s. I'm not saying that makes them better.

Ford makes a good product. My father in law has a 2014 Escape SEL 4WD with about 50,000 miles. He's very happy with it. I rode in it the other day, not a squeak or rattle. The doors close with a solid, Germanic, thunk. The interior materials are fantastic. Fit & finish is first rate. Great seats too. I'm impressed.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

The shortest oil change interval I'd run with conventional oil is 5k miles. With synthetic I'm comfortable up to a 15k interval- when backed up by a used oil analysis.

But how much does a UOA cost and what of the hassle of obtaining and shipping samples? I'd rather go premature with an oil change and save myself the trouble.

However, a UOA might be a good thing to do if you suspect something funky is going on in your engine.

stickguy

Farmer, asked son about Browns brewing said he has not been, as getting to Troy is a pain, but his cousin has gone a number of times, and gave it good reviews.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Someone asked lately, if car dealers can sell cars that have safety recall notices on them. Apparently they can, according to this CBS News report.

CAN CAR DEALERS SELL CARS THAT HAVE BEEN RECALLED

I'm the one who asked that question and it was answered here and when I saw a used car from a dealer with a CarFax which listed an open recall.

As much of a pain as it would be for a customer to have to bring his new ride over to a different store to have it fixed just think how hard it would be when a competitor rolls a car in that he just bought at the auction. Do you think say, a Ford dealer is going to put the Chevy dealer at the front of the line to fix the Ford he just took in trade?

imidazol97

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

bwia said:

Speaking of lavatories ... I just bought a new toilet seat with blue LED lighting.

Pretty neat I must say, but unfortunately I created a monster for myself as my wife says I have no excuse to spray the floor with my nocturnal emissions. So now, I have to mop the floor myself, but when the batteries go I will just have to pee in the dark.

We have this new invention in our bathroom, it sits on the wall and when you move it the whole bathroom gets flooded with light. Move it back to it's original position and the light goes away. I think it's called a light switch. We even have another invention that keeps the light from spilling out of the room, that one is called a door.

Yeah, but does your light switch thingy stop you from peeing on the floor?

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

The shortest oil change interval I'd run with conventional oil is 5k miles. With synthetic I'm comfortable up to a 15k interval- when backed up by a used oil analysis.

But how much does a UOA cost and what of the hassle of obtaining and shipping samples? I'd rather go premature with an oil change and save myself the trouble.

However, a UOA might be a good thing to do if you suspect something funky is going on in your engine.

I was a bit unclear; I'd want a UOA if I was running synthetic over 10k miles. 5k on conventional or 10k on synthetic, I'd just run it and forget about it. Blackstone only charges $35 for a UOA and provides collection/shipping kits for free. On the MS3 I got a UOA at every change as I had heard stories of how direct injection turbos were extremely hard on oil. The stories-in my case, anyway-were not borne out by the UOAs; Mobil 1 5W-30 could go 10k miles with no issues at all.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

If you ever saw the rust bucket trucks that cruise around the northeast you'd wish the whole truck was made of aluminum. A few dents might disturb someone going to high tea but when you throw a concrete block into the bed of a Chevy and it goes right through you'll head to the Ford store.

jmonroe

houdini1 said:

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

Silly to require navi to get CarPlay. That is one of the best things about it, not needing nav built in!

It looks like my aversion to Nav systems has finally come in handy. Because you can get everything on a phone now the onboard Nav system is becoming obsolete. I just had to wait it out.

It's true, except in areas without cell coverage. Not many places lack it, but I just experienced one - Banff/Jasper/Kootenay/Yoho National Parks in Canadian Rockies. Your cell phone based GPS won't work, as it won't load the map on route, only in select points, over 60 miles apart from each other. But it isn't big deal, admittedly, the signage for point of interest was good enough and there wasn't anynway to get lost there. One big road north-south and couple east-west.

BTW, the views are just fantastic. I think it may beat Yellowstone, Grand Teton, or American Rockies, which I liked very much. Not by much, but the peaks and valleys are just phenomenal, more dramatic and vaster. The awesome impression of endlessness is more prononunced. As I understand, it's because the glacier persisted for longer, so it did a "bigger" job. I think only Grand and Bryce Canyons are "better" (for lack of a better term).

I was there about 20 years ago. Simply stunning, and then, no big crowds. I don't know if they still have the cable cars that go up the mountain near Banff, but it was an amazing ride. That whole area of Canada is awesome with much more sweeping vistas than the U.S. Rockies.

What are you trying to say...it's all about the marketing?

FWIW, I took yesterday off from this place and spent it with the family. Even took in a morning parade with our youngest grandson. He's going to have a few cavities in a month or two.

jmonroe

jmonroe

stever said:

C'mon, you know you can't convince other people about "science" (or much of anything else).

Otherwise the 3,000 mile oil change joints would all fold.

Back in the 70's I (as in me myself) changed my oil pretty religiously at 3,000 miles. I had several fellow workers who told me not to throw it away because they wanted it. I told them to think again because I only lived about 3 miles from work, so the oil wasn't as good as they thought it was.

jmonroe

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

If you ever saw the rust bucket trucks that cruise around the northeast you'd wish the whole truck was made of aluminum. A few dents might disturb someone going to high tea but when you throw a concrete block into the bed of a Chevy and it goes right through you'll head to the Ford store.

Well, I own a 2015 Ford F150 (aluminum). That was an interesting video, I'll give you that. But not a game changer, at least not for me. One of the first things I did was to buy a heavy duty rubber bed mat (cost about $85). And that rubber bed mat, all by itself, will completely eliminate the kind of damages they were showing in the video. If I were expecting to do the kind of things they show in the video (dropping concrete blocks into the bed), I would most definitely invest in a spray in bedliner (with a Ford or a Chevy).

jmonroe

driver100 said:

28firefighter said:

explorerx4 said:

Ababomike hasn't posted anything since June 13th. Did I miss something?

There was some commotion over the use of the "abuse" flag and I think he was unhappy about that. Not sure if he is still lurking and not posting. 

I don't think Mike will be back unfortunately, and it was because of the flagging. On top of that he has some serious health issues to contend with, and a big test coming up later this week. Mike added a lot to our forum, hope he will be back, but not counting on it.

Did anyone miss me yesterday?

jmonroe

ab348

jmonroe said:

Did anyone miss me yesterday?

jmonroe

No. But then again, you didn't make an announcement that you were leaving.

@jmonroe, why did I think you had a recent-model Genesis instead of the '09 model you state in your signature line? Am I confusing you with someone else on here?

henryn

driver100 said:

Here is an example of what I call "False Economizing";

Grandson is 25 yrs old...really good kid. Got his CA certificate, makes $65k a year in year 2.
Has a girlfriend, takes a bus to work to save money to buy a house.
Comes to visit his parents last two weekends, comes on a bus.
Both weekends he needs a ride, about 20 miles to the bus depot so he can get a bus home (parents have to get to work so we are asked to drive him - don't mind helping him but I think this is insane).

I know he is a good kid and he wants to save money to buy a house......good plan.
BUT,
Life goes on. You can't stop everything to try to reach a financial goal. And, you can't make everyone else look after you while you are fulfilling your goals. Besides all that, what if he is at work and they want to send him out to see a client (does he take the bus), what if the boss wants to talk over something at lunch - and suggests he drive?
If I had an accountant employee who made that kind of money, and if they didn't own a car, I would really wonder about their attitude toward life...and money.
I would find it very hard to live without a car. I have had a car since I was 18 and I have never been without a car since,,,,and there were times I was making little money or had lost my job. The car allowed me to find a new job and to get to work once I did have a job. A car is a necessity....I would say I would feel like a nobody without a car. Even if I'm not driving it, I have to know it is there so I have the freedom to go somewhere if I want to.

There is economizing, and their is living. I say, live life to the max, within reason, better to use your money to live well than to sacrifice living in order to save. Saving is important, goals are important, but there is a balance!

While I personally agree with your position on this, I also see your grandson's position. I do think part of your position is based on the fact that we are all car nuts here. If we weren’t, we wouldn’t be here, would we? (smile)

I do agree that we should live, we should enjoy what we have right now, not save and scrimp for some future goal that may not happen. Life is about balance, and I would agree that your grandson is “out of balance”.

I had a very good friend, a man I worked with back in the 70’s and 80’s. He and his wife saved every penny to buy a house. He brought a sack lunch to work every day, he never stopped after work for a drink, he drove a junk Pinto (now there’s a sacrifice for you!)

He and his wife bought a town house, then moved up to a small house, then a larger house. Come 1986, the oil business collapsed, the economy collapsed, the housing market collapsed. He lost his job, he lost his house, he lost his wife and family (the stresses were too great).

Like I said, balance. Save for retirement, but enjoy today, for tomorrow is not guaranteed, not to anyone.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

jmonroe said:

Did anyone miss me yesterday?

jmonroe

No. But then again, you didn't make an announcement that you were leaving.

@jmonroe, why did I think you had a recent-model Genesis instead of the '09 model you state in your signature line? Am I confusing you with someone else on here?

I tried to update my profile several times to show that I now have a '15 Genny and not an '09 but I can't get it to change no matter how I go about it. Maybe I should flag the mods for that, right? Or, at the very least, I should have my dues lowered because I'm not getting full service. :@

As for confusing me with someone else, I think that's insulting because I thought I was pretty unique.

jmonroe

stever

Must be another one of our Vanilla Forums bugs since your Profile looks correct.

bwia

Just got a call from a Mercedes Benz internet salesman inviting me to test drive a 2016 GLC 300. I told him I was not quite ready to buy but I would be interested in talking to one of their "genius" sales support guys, similar to those employed by BMW and Apple.

He said that they didn't need a so-called genius as all of their salesmen were qualified to answer all of my questions; and besides their sales staff had to be recertified every three months to continue as MB salesmen.

Hmm, arrogance, or sticking with the Benz tried and true sales approach.

Mr_Shiftright

nyccarguy said:

The point is that the majority of pickup owners spending upwards of $40K to $50K on a truck for work will most likely have a spray on bed liner installed. Also, nobody drops concrete blocks from 5' up in the air.

Like @explorerx4 said: look at the sales numbers. Aluminum body trucks with turbo V6 engines outsell steel body trucks with push rod V8s. I'm not saying that makes them better.

Ford makes a good product. My father in law has a 2014 Escape SEL 4WD with about 50,000 miles. He's very happy with it. I rode in it the other day, not a squeak or rattle. The doors close with a solid, Germanic, thunk. The interior materials are fantastic. Fit & finish is first rate. Great seats too. I'm impressed.

They updated the Escape in 2013 and it was a much better product than the ones before.

henryn

Mr_Shiftright said:

nyccarguy said:

The point is that the majority of pickup owners spending upwards of $40K to $50K on a truck for work will most likely have a spray on bed liner installed. Also, nobody drops concrete blocks from 5' up in the air.

Like @explorerx4 said: look at the sales numbers. Aluminum body trucks with turbo V6 engines outsell steel body trucks with push rod V8s. I'm not saying that makes them better.

Ford makes a good product. My father in law has a 2014 Escape SEL 4WD with about 50,000 miles. He's very happy with it. I rode in it the other day, not a squeak or rattle. The doors close with a solid, Germanic, thunk. The interior materials are fantastic. Fit & finish is first rate. Great seats too. I'm impressed.

They updated the Escape in 2013 and it was a much better product than the ones before.

Better for some. Not for me. They drastically reduced the headroom, and I can't drive one now without reclining the seat at a rather ridiculous angle.

Mr_Shiftright

That's annoying. The big complaint up to 2012 was that they were just a dated design and lacked features of other similar vehicles. So I guess maybe design overtook practicality? Wouldn't be the first time. Does yours have a sunroof. That'll often rob you of 1" or so.

driver100

bwia said:

Just got a call from a Mercedes Benz internet salesman inviting me to test drive a 2016 GLC 300. I told him I was not quite ready to buy but I would be interested in talking to one of their "genius" sales support guys, similar to those employed by BMW and Apple.

He said that they didn't need a so-called genius as all of their salesmen were qualified to answer all of my questions; and besides their sales staff had to be recertified every three months to continue as MB salesmen.

Hmm, arrogance, or sticking with the Benz tried and true sales approach.

I think he definitely sounded arrogant, and he could have said it in a much nicer way, but the Mercedes salesman I have talked to have been completely knowledgeable, and can answer every question you throw at them. They are thoroughly trained, so they don't need an extra layer of "geniuses". I think you should try the GLC 300, not to buy it but just to get an idea whether it suits you or not. If yes, it becomes your goal, if not, time to move on - it at least eliminates it from the race.

My own experience....my bmw cornered better, Sport + really changed the car into a driving machine, car gets lower, more power, steering tightens up, can even convert to RWD from AWD. But, for comfort, optimum design, ease of use, comfort, sensible styling, everyday living...Mercedes gets it right!

driver100

henryn said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

nyccarguy said:

The point is that the majority of pickup owners spending upwards of $40K to $50K on a truck for work will most likely have a spray on bed liner installed. Also, nobody drops concrete blocks from 5' up in the air.

Like @explorerx4 said: look at the sales numbers. Aluminum body trucks with turbo V6 engines outsell steel body trucks with push rod V8s. I'm not saying that makes them better.

Ford makes a good product. My father in law has a 2014 Escape SEL 4WD with about 50,000 miles. He's very happy with it. I rode in it the other day, not a squeak or rattle. The doors close with a solid, Germanic, thunk. The interior materials are fantastic. Fit & finish is first rate. Great seats too. I'm impressed.

They updated the Escape in 2013 and it was a much better product than the ones before.

Better for some. Not for me. They drastically reduced the headroom, and I can't drive one now without reclining the seat at a rather ridiculous angle.

That's this lower roof, tiny thin windows look. That is why we bought our 2015 GLK instead of ordering a 2016 GLC. I see a lot of 2015 GLKs on the road, and they were selling out fast, so I think there are people who still like taller vehicles. Iam not sure why Ford would lower the roof, they made the roof higher in the Focus so as people age (and those are the biggest car buyers) they would like the ease of getting in and out of a taller car.

driver100

henryn said:

driver100 said:

Here is an example of what I call "False Economizing";

Grandson is 25 yrs old...really good kid. Got his CA certificate, makes $65k a year in year 2.
Has a girlfriend, takes a bus to work to save money to buy a house.
Comes to visit his parents last two weekends, comes on a bus.
Both weekends he needs a ride, about 20 miles to the bus depot so he can get a bus home (parents have to get to work so we are asked to drive him - don't mind helping him but I think this is insane).

I know he is a good kid and he wants to save money to buy a house......good plan.
BUT,
Life goes on. You can't stop everything to try to reach a financial goal. And, you can't make everyone else look after you while you are fulfilling your goals. Besides all that, what if he is at work and they want to send him out to see a client (does he take the bus), what if the boss wants to talk over something at lunch - and suggests he drive?
If I had an accountant employee who made that kind of money, and if they didn't own a car, I would really wonder about their attitude toward life...and money.
I would find it very hard to live without a car. I have had a car since I was 18 and I have never been without a car since,,,,and there were times I was making little money or had lost my job. The car allowed me to find a new job and to get to work once I did have a job. A car is a necessity....I would say I would feel like a nobody without a car. Even if I'm not driving it, I have to know it is there so I have the freedom to go somewhere if I want to.

There is economizing, and their is living. I say, live life to the max, within reason, better to use your money to live well than to sacrifice living in order to save. Saving is important, goals are important, but there is a balance!

Like I said, balance. Save for retirement, but enjoy today, for tomorrow is not guaranteed, not to anyone.

The newspaper wrote about a young guy here who worked two jobs, ate at home, didn't do anything, and he saved for 5 years solid and was able to pay cash for a small house. It was a good plan for him, and now he has that off his shoulders, and the same house has probably gone up in price 25% in the last two years - $75000!

It worked for him and I give him credit.

OTOH, we had friends who both died recently, they scrimped and saved every last penny....no a/c, drove old cars, no dishwasher, old TVs, only ate at FF places....$2 KFC Days.

My wife was executor for their estate.....estate was worth $2.5 million, the money went to a 70 year old retired nephew and 65 year old niece in England who visited about 2X in the last 10 years.

I am sure they enjoyed not spending anything....but still, it would have been nice if they had enjoyed their money a little more.

driver100

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

If you ever saw the rust bucket trucks that cruise around the northeast you'd wish the whole truck was made of aluminum. A few dents might disturb someone going to high tea but when you throw a concrete block into the bed of a Chevy and it goes right through you'll head to the Ford store.

Well, I own a 2015 Ford F150 (aluminum). That was an interesting video, I'll give you that. But not a game changer, at least not for me. One of the first things I did was to buy a heavy duty rubber bed mat (cost about $85). And that rubber bed mat, all by itself, will completely eliminate the kind of damages they were showing in the video. If I were expecting to do the kind of things they show in the video (dropping concrete blocks into the bed), I would most definitely invest in a spray in bedliner (with a Ford or a Chevy).

I guess that is the real flaw in the ad, and it is what I notice conspiracy theory people do. They start with a grain of truth, and then bend that around to support the theory. In this case, they found a weakness in the Ford's aluminum bed....if a load of bricks are dropped into it. It would never happen in real life....but, then they use that to support their argument that Chev trucks are stronger.

I am not putting down GM....a lot of companies do it and it makes for a good argument, and would probably persuade a lot of people....if you can do it why not....done by politicians all the time (just making a point, not going political here).

driver100

BMW went 15k miles between oil changes, Mercedes 12k miles between oil changes.

I don't worry about it one bit - I am trusting the engineers who designed the car know what they are doing. They don't want trade-ins that are burning oil, and they don't want leased cars coming back damaged.

I think it is OCD to get oil tested, unless there are unusual circumstances.......extra dust, towing, racing, short runs, etc.

roadburner

bwia said:

Just got a call from a Mercedes Benz internet salesman inviting me to test drive a 2016 GLC 300. I told him I was not quite ready to buy but I would be interested in talking to one of their "genius" sales support guys, similar to those employed by BMW and Apple.

He said that they didn't need a so-called genius as all of their salesmen were qualified to answer all of my questions; and besides their sales staff had to be recertified every three months to continue as MB salesmen.

Hmm, arrogance, or sticking with the Benz tried and true sales approach.

BMW's experience with their Genius Everywhere(in person, hotline, app) program has been very positive- dealers that have a Genius on staff tend to sell more cars and are more profitable overall. BMW has also seen overall customer satisfaction increase- on both internal as well as third party surveys.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

If you ever saw the rust bucket trucks that cruise around the northeast you'd wish the whole truck was made of aluminum. A few dents might disturb someone going to high tea but when you throw a concrete block into the bed of a Chevy and it goes right through you'll head to the Ford store.

Well, I own a 2015 Ford F150 (aluminum). That was an interesting video, I'll give you that. But not a game changer, at least not for me. One of the first things I did was to buy a heavy duty rubber bed mat (cost about $85). And that rubber bed mat, all by itself, will completely eliminate the kind of damages they were showing in the video. If I were expecting to do the kind of things they show in the video (dropping concrete blocks into the bed), I would most definitely invest in a spray in bedliner (with a Ford or a Chevy).

Most people up here just buy a sheet of plywood for protection on work trucks. I have that on my old van and I'm glad the last owner put it in because I think that's all the floor I have. If it was Aluminum I might still have one.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

BMW went 15k miles between oil changes, Mercedes 12k miles between oil changes.

I don't worry about it one bit - I am trusting the engineers who designed the car know what they are doing. They don't want trade-ins that are burning oil, and they don't want leased cars coming back damaged.

I think it is OCD to get oil tested, unless there are unusual circumstances.......extra dust, towing, racing, short runs, etc.

For folks like you who trade frequently longer OCI makes sense but for people like me who at least PLAN on driving a million miles it's cheap peace of mind.

I just turned 5k miles on the Mustang after 12 months so how long do you think it will take me to run up a million miles?

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

If you ever saw the rust bucket trucks that cruise around the northeast you'd wish the whole truck was made of aluminum. A few dents might disturb someone going to high tea but when you throw a concrete block into the bed of a Chevy and it goes right through you'll head to the Ford store.

Well, I own a 2015 Ford F150 (aluminum). That was an interesting video, I'll give you that. But not a game changer, at least not for me. One of the first things I did was to buy a heavy duty rubber bed mat (cost about $85). And that rubber bed mat, all by itself, will completely eliminate the kind of damages they were showing in the video. If I were expecting to do the kind of things they show in the video (dropping concrete blocks into the bed), I would most definitely invest in a spray in bedliner (with a Ford or a Chevy).

Most people up here just buy a sheet of plywood for protection on work trucks. I have that on my old van and I'm glad the last owner put it in because I think that's all the floor I have. If it was Aluminum I might still have one.

'farmer',

You've mentioned how much salt they throw down in the winter months where you live and here in South Western PA they do it too, it's just that we don't get the snow fall that you get in upstate NY so we don't have cars that rust as badly as you see. Although in the 70's it didn't seem like cars lasted too long here at all but they build them better now so seeing rusted cars is not nearly as prevalent as in the bad old days. However, while aluminum doesn't rust it will corrode so unless high quality aluminum is used, there will be corrosion.

I don't know about the quality of the Ford aluminum but I don't think it is the panacea that who might think it is. I'm not against aluminum but it has it's limitations and gauge for gauge it is not as strong as steel unless Ford is using the exotic aluminum blends which we know they aren't using because of costs. Now, if Ford uses a high quality anodized aluminum it will not corrode quickly but that costs money too so they probably go middle of the road to keep the costs down. I'd like to see a 7 to 10 year normal road test in snow country before I'd get on that wagon.

jmonroe

coldinohio

bbc top gear
chris evans out as host; lots of issues;
last few episodes better, but he seemed to annoy many

houdini1

driver100 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

If you ever saw the rust bucket trucks that cruise around the northeast you'd wish the whole truck was made of aluminum. A few dents might disturb someone going to high tea but when you throw a concrete block into the bed of a Chevy and it goes right through you'll head to the Ford store.

Well, I own a 2015 Ford F150 (aluminum). That was an interesting video, I'll give you that. But not a game changer, at least not for me. One of the first things I did was to buy a heavy duty rubber bed mat (cost about $85). And that rubber bed mat, all by itself, will completely eliminate the kind of damages they were showing in the video. If I were expecting to do the kind of things they show in the video (dropping concrete blocks into the bed), I would most definitely invest in a spray in bedliner (with a Ford or a Chevy).

I guess that is the real flaw in the ad, and it is what I notice conspiracy theory people do. They start with a grain of truth, and then bend that around to support the theory. In this case, they found a weakness in the Ford's aluminum bed....if a load of bricks are dropped into it. It would never happen in real life....but, then they use that to support their argument that Chev trucks are stronger.

I am not putting down GM....a lot of companies do it and it makes for a good argument, and would probably persuade a lot of people....if you can do it why not....done by politicians all the time (just making a point, not going political here).

Honda did the same brick drop/tool box test with their new Ridgeline, which comes with some type of composite bed. Of course it came through unscathed. Impressive.

houdini1

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

said:

Call me cynical but ever since NBC rigged GM trucks to explode on impact I have been skeptical of things like this.
I am skeptical to some degree too....but, they did the tests and we saw the results....if they were not true I would think Ford would be lawyered up pretty quickly.

The NBC rigging, like lots of other things, was hidden behind the scenes. It was done with their own motive in mind to smear GM and to garner more TV viewers because of their story. It's like the sex stories from the local news folks every time the ratings sweeps are coming up.

In this case, we see the blocks randomly placed in the idential loaders and dropped from the same height with the same rapidity as a group. Pretty damning.

said:

I am also thinking there is a reason they are placing the ad on the internet and not on TV.

The ad has been showing here on TV, at least the part without the toolbox.
For many, the toolbox falling into the bed is typical of what might happen with their own truck: something they accidentally drop into the bed.

I'd mentioned that several of the regulars stopping at the local quick market for their coffee in the mornings had bought various new trucks through the last almost year. Many of those trucks are driven to and from the office and a few might have some supplies carefully loaded into the bed to run out to a work site for the real workers to use. The trucks never show mud on a tire or splashes under the side of the body. Those folks might not care about the durability of the bed. On the other hand, the men who were driving pickups in Boy Scouts when my son was in it years back were using the trucks hard. Junk and tools in the cab, dirt on the floor from worksites, junk and stuff in the bed. The clean truck owners may not care about the vulnerability of aluminum in the bed as well as in the body panels.

If you ever saw the rust bucket trucks that cruise around the northeast you'd wish the whole truck was made of aluminum. A few dents might disturb someone going to high tea but when you throw a concrete block into the bed of a Chevy and it goes right through you'll head to the Ford store.

Well, I own a 2015 Ford F150 (aluminum). That was an interesting video, I'll give you that. But not a game changer, at least not for me. One of the first things I did was to buy a heavy duty rubber bed mat (cost about $85). And that rubber bed mat, all by itself, will completely eliminate the kind of damages they were showing in the video. If I were expecting to do the kind of things they show in the video (dropping concrete blocks into the bed), I would most definitely invest in a spray in bedliner (with a Ford or a Chevy).

Most people up here just buy a sheet of plywood for protection on work trucks. I have that on my old van and I'm glad the last owner put it in because I think that's all the floor I have. If it was Aluminum I might still have one.

'farmer',

You've mentioned how much salt they throw down in the winter months where you live and here in South Western PA they do it too, it's just that we don't get the snow fall that you get in upstate NY so we don't have cars that rust as badly as you see. Although in the 70's it didn't seem like cars lasted too long here at all but they build them better now so seeing rusted cars is not nearly as prevalent as in the bad old days. However, while aluminum doesn't rust it will corrode so unless high quality aluminum is used, there will be corrosion.

I don't know about the quality of the Ford aluminum but I don't think it is the panacea that who might think it is. I'm not against aluminum but it has it's limitations and gauge for gauge it is not as strong as steel unless Ford is using the exotic aluminum blends which we know they aren't using because of costs. Now, if Ford uses a high quality anodized aluminum it will not corrode quickly but that costs money too so they probably go middle of the road to keep the costs down. I'd like to see a 7 to 10 year normal road test in snow country before I'd get on that wagon.

jmonroe

Speaking of your new '15 Genesis, what are the pros and cons when compared with your '09?