Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

roadburner

Just to clarify, the purpose of the Genius at a BMW center is not to let salespeople off the hook with respect to product knowledge.

andres3

driver100 said:

fintail said:

If insurance pays up, then what happens?

6000 rental miles is probably 50K normal miles.

driver100 said:

Only has 6000 miles on it. I don't use it a lot, and I don't want another Cruze, so I will see what happens over the next few days. If insurance pays up they will probably want me to hand in Christina's cousin anyway.

It was 6000 miles on the rental car.
Once the insurance company pays me the replacement value of a comparable new model car , approx $86k including tax..........their last proposal was $83k, then I am sure I will have to sign off, and won't be supplied with a rental car any longer.

The lowball dealer the insurance company used left out a $2600 Technology Package which my 2015 car had, and it includes these features, 360 Camera, Adaptive High Beam Assist, Active LED High Performance Lighting System. Talk about a dealer not knowing much about their cars.

How long has it been since your accident? Is the insurance company just trying to stall and wear you out in your view, or do you think they actually believe $83K is the right number? If an equivalent car costs 2,600 to 3K more, it seems like pretty easy math to me. I really don't get why insurance companies like to act in bad faith with people that are not even at-fault in an accident. If they want to be difficult for the sake of being difficult, they should do that with the at-fault parties, and spare the not-at-fault party.

fintail

Sometimes I wish I had a BMW, esp an X5 or E60/F30 etc so I could drive jerkily and it would be expected

That ES thing is funny/depressing. Sounds like the "Camry dent", which is a dent at either corner of the front or rear bumper, all too often seen on Toyota products. Speaks volumes.

dino001 said:

Every time I make some kind of mistake on a road, if I have a passenger, I always say, what did you expect, I'm a BMW driver, it's in the manual I should behave like a jerk. Just doing my quota.

To be serious, I have had especially bad experiences with Lexus drivers, but it may be a typical confirmation bias. Worst that happened to me, was a brand new ES driver drove a corner of her rear bumper into my driver side doors (yes, she had to do both, one was not enough) at a parking lot. It was low speed and gentle, but it caused a $600+ scratch and dent. She drove away before I even knew what happened. But ya know, she had a new Lexus, they get a pass on petty little things like damaging somebody else's car.

andres3

A Camry driver recently crashed into my Father's Prius

No one was hurt, minor accident, and seems to be at least 95% the Camry driver's fault. Need to follow up to find out how the insurance handled it.

Essentially he was parallel parking into a space, backing up, but most of the way into it, when a Camry decides they can't have the right lane blocked any longer (unlike several cars ahead of them that just changed lanes to go around), and misjudged that they would fit even though my Father wasn't done maneuvering into the parking space yet. Front right collides into the Prius' front left. My father said he was signaling and almost done with his parking job, and that several cars managed to avoid him before this lady hit him.

I warned him the fact he was backing up might be used against him by illogical insurance companies; though clearly he had the right-of-way since he never completed leaving his lane.

driver100

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

snakeweasel said:

Now how much is too much?

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/honda-taking-transmissions-level-madness-174902835.html

Can't say I understand it. My CTS had 8 and it did not even use those efficiently, IMHO. It could have easily used 5 or 6 for all acceleration and utilize a super high 7th for steady state cruising. Yet the RPM differences between the top 3 gears was negligible.

Minor things that make me appreciate the extra design effort and attention to details Audi provides (in cars that sticker for a lot more dough though). You could say I like the German design focus being driver-centric.

These are the things that are hard to pick up on during a test drive that lasts 20 minutes or less typically. However, they are the things that build a perception of value during the ownership experience.

I say the same thing.....Mercedes, Audi, BMW, they really get it right. You know it is engineered to the max, someone actually makes it a certain way because it is the best way to make it.

This Chrysler 300 rental is a pretty fair car that I would have thought was a great car before I got my first bmw in 2004, but, it just isn't the same. A bit sloppy in steering, seating and controls not designed nearly as well, not nearly the same level of fit and finish. Where the instrument panel meets the windshield a bit unfinished, the rotary dial gear shifter is really kind of crude - something flashy that sounds good in theory but it is not natural.

No matter how good North American cars are, I would always have doubts they measure up. Sorry imid, the Fusion (other than it stalling) was a good effort, had the Malibu and it was OK for the price point (actually has come a long way), the Cruze is an incredible bargain for the price, Cadillac is getting close but just not quite as refined, and on it goes....all this in my opinion.

driver100

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

If insurance pays up, then what happens?

6000 rental miles is probably 50K normal miles.

driver100 said:

Only has 6000 miles on it. I don't use it a lot, and I don't want another Cruze, so I will see what happens over the next few days. If insurance pays up they will probably want me to hand in Christina's cousin anyway.

It was 6000 miles on the rental car.
Once the insurance company pays me the replacement value of a comparable new model car , approx $86k including tax..........their last proposal was $83k, then I am sure I will have to sign off, and won't be supplied with a rental car any longer.

The lowball dealer the insurance company used left out a $2600 Technology Package which my 2015 car had, and it includes these features, 360 Camera, Adaptive High Beam Assist, Active LED High Performance Lighting System. Talk about a dealer not knowing much about their cars.

How long has it been since your accident? Is the insurance company just trying to stall and wear you out in your view, or do you think they actually believe $83K is the right number? If an equivalent car costs 2,600 to 3K more, it seems like pretty easy math to me. I really don't get why insurance companies like to act in bad faith with people that are not even at-fault in an accident. If they want to be difficult for the sake of being difficult, they should do that with the at-fault parties, and spare the not-at-fault party.

4 weeks since the accident. I think the insurance company was testing to see if I would jump at $83k. They probably told their Mercedes contact to try to get the price as low as possible, hoping I would jump at it when I saw what they were offering. A lot of people might just accept it, you really have to read through what the options are and I may not have known if I didn't get an invoice from my dealer and worked out a price. My dealer also gave me the invoice from the 2015 model. One option on the 2015 had all the extras, and that option cost $5000. On the 2017 the options are divided up, half are in one package for $3000, the others are in a second option for $2600. You really have to know what the packages are to know they were leaving something out that I had before.

The at fault driver's insurance pays for most I guess. But the extra policy that gave me replacement value for an extra $55 is probably paid for by my insurance company. All those drivers who don't get into a totalled accident within 5 years cover the cost of the few who do. I suppose if they can save $2600 - $3000 they will attempt to do it.

In a way, it doesn't bother me too much, because while they dither, I have up to $1800 to spend on a rental car.

driver100

One thing the BMW salesman won't tell you is how much harder it is to be let into traffic when you own a BMW.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

I have told it before but, to make it brief:
We were prepared to buy a 2013 328 for my wife.
I checked the trade-in value of the 2008 335, and they would only offer $2500 less than black book.
They said they can buy them at auction for the lower amount.
I said that didn't sound right to me..........left and checked an Audi A4. Liked it better, and it was $11000 less. and they gave me what I wanted for the trade-in.
Bought it, got home, got a call from the BMW guy they could do better.
Told him it is too late, we like the Audi better and bought it.
He said, well that is the end of the line for that model, new ones will be different, that's why it was less expensive.
It wasn't nice....he should have just said, Hope you enjoy it, see me if you come back and want to try a BMW.

When I bought the '15 Genny the guy that was assigned to showing me the features of the car (I'm sure he didn't have the handle of Genious, maybe it was Genny Guy or something like that but since I didn't ask I don't what his official title was), anyway, when we got to the back of the car while we are standing at the rear bumper he says, "this car has what we call Smart Trunk". I interrupt him and say, "oh, is that where you wave your foot under the bumper and it opens automatically"? He smiled and said, "no, all you have to do is stand here for about 4 seconds and it will then open for you, you don't have to wave your foot under the bumper. What do you think this is a MB or something"? I would not say he was ripping on another make, just pointing out the feature of the car.

It works just like he said it would and when you have packages in your hand you don't have to balance yourself and wave your foot...just stand there and wala. I had some fun with this feature right after I got the car. Grandson #4 wanted to see what was in the trunk, don't ask me why but he did. So, I got pretty lucky with my timing and as we stood at the trunk for a second or two I said, "clap your hands". My timing was perfect and the trunk lid went up. The look on his face was priceless. I should have had someone ready to take a picture but I wasn't that smart. :@

jmonroe

stickguy

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

andres3

4 weeks since the accident. I think the insurance company was testing to see if I would jump at $83k. They probably told their Mercedes contact to try to get the price as low as possible, hoping I would jump at it when I saw what they were offering. A lot of people might just accept it, you really have to read through what the options are and I may not have known if I didn't get an invoice from my dealer and worked out a price. My dealer also gave me the invoice from the 2015 model. One option on the 2015 had all the extras, and that option cost $5000. On the 2017 the options are divided up, half are in one package for $3000, the others are in a second option for $2600. You really have to know what the packages are to know they were leaving something out that I had before.

The at fault driver's insurance pays for most I guess. But the extra policy that gave me replacement value for an extra $55 is probably paid for by my insurance company. All those drivers who don't get into a totalled accident within 5 years cover the cost of the few who do. I suppose if they can save $2600 - $3000 they will attempt to do it.

In a way, it doesn't bother me too much, because while they dither, I have up to $1800 to spend on a rental car.

Is that $1,800 rental coverage also part of your policy, or is it just what the at-fault parties insurance said you could run the bill up to for now?

Some people elect not to pay for rental coverage so time is money. I always get rental coverage, if needed, through the party that caused the damage. It can make the claim larger when there's a battle.

jmonroe

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

I remember a while back that you said you turned the Smart Trunk feature off and if I had that problem, I'd turn it off too. However, I would tell the dealer about it and wait to hear what they say. Of course they would probably say the typical, "can't duplicate customers problem" but maybe there is a tech bulletin about this and they can correct it.

How would it hurt to do that?

jmonroe

Michaell

I just upped my rental car coverage to $25/day or $600 total for both of my cars. Will that get me a vehicle comparable to my wife's Outback if the indescribable awful happens? Probably not.

@stickguy - I've noticed that the trunk button on the Jetta pops the trunk lid completely open, which I find nice. Not sure how I'd feel about an "automatic" trunk.

andres3

Michaell said:

I just upped my rental car coverage to $25/day or $600 total for both of my cars. Will that get me a vehicle comparable to my wife's Outback if the indescribable awful happens? Probably not.

@stickguy - I've noticed that the trunk button on the Jetta pops the trunk lid completely open, which I find nice. Not sure how I'd feel about an "automatic" trunk.

The KIA has the trunk auto open feature. It takes a good 2-3 seconds and has a loud beep, so I can't see doing it on accident happening very often; hasn't happened at all yet. I think I am PRO this feature. Not sure if it opens all the way, but pretty sure it opens more than a crack so that it would be easy to lift it the rest of the way.

What is annoying is if I walk by the car and the keys are in my pocket the side mirrors will straighten out as if I'm about to want to get into the car.

sda

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

I just upped my rental car coverage to $25/day or $600 total for both of my cars. Will that get me a vehicle comparable to my wife's Outback if the indescribable awful happens? Probably not.

@stickguy - I've noticed that the trunk button on the Jetta pops the trunk lid completely open, which I find nice. Not sure how I'd feel about an "automatic" trunk.

The KIA has the trunk auto open feature. It takes a good 2-3 seconds and has a loud beep, so I can't see doing it on accident happening very often; hasn't happened at all yet. I think I am PRO this feature.

What is annoying is if I walk by the car and the keys are in my pocket the side mirrors will straighten out as if I'm about to want to get into the car.

Its excited to see you! Let's go for a drive!

driver100

andres3 said:

4 weeks since the accident. I think the insurance company was testing to see if I would jump at $83k. They probably told their Mercedes contact to try to get the price as low as possible, hoping I would jump at it when I saw what they were offering. A lot of people might just accept it, you really have to read through what the options are and I may not have known if I didn't get an invoice from my dealer and worked out a price. My dealer also gave me the invoice from the 2015 model. One option on the 2015 had all the extras, and that option cost $5000. On the 2017 the options are divided up, half are in one package for $3000, the others are in a second option for $2600. You really have to know what the packages are to know they were leaving something out that I had before.

The at fault driver's insurance pays for most I guess. But the extra policy that gave me replacement value for an extra $55 is probably paid for by my insurance company. All those drivers who don't get into a totalled accident within 5 years cover the cost of the few who do. I suppose if they can save $2600 - $3000 they will attempt to do it.

In a way, it doesn't bother me too much, because while they dither, I have up to $1800 to spend on a rental car.

Is that $1,800 rental coverage also part of your policy, or is it just what the at-fault parties insurance said you could run the bill up to for now?

Some people elect not to pay for rental coverage so time is money. I always get rental coverage, if needed, through the party that caused the damage. It can make the claim larger when there's a battle.


I think $1800 is the limit set out by my policy, as in up to $1800. I would think, if things aren't tidied up by the time I reach the limit, they would give me a new limit. I think they don't want me renting a Ferrari at $1000 a day.

Since we have no fault insurance, the at fault drivers company will be paying I am quite sure, mine will collect.

driver100

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

The E 400 needs a foot under the bumper, usually works but have to get it just right.

Sometimes I am behind the car and little Gig I runs just under the bumper and the lid pops open, now that can be aggravating.

ab348

Not a smart trunk guy here, but of all the cars I have had that had a remote trunk opener on the fob, all but one would pop the trunk just an inch or so when activated. The exception was the 2011 Regal, which opened the trunk fully - I guess it had powerful struts of some sort. Anyway, that was combined with a rather sensitive button on the fob to make for numerous times where the trunk would open inadvertently. I remember a couple of incidents where the trunk was wide open during the day in the parking deck at work. My office was in the building almost directly above the car. I guess reinforced concrete floors didn't stop the fob signal. Same thing happened a couple of times in the driveway at home. Not a good thing.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

I gave my wife a driving lesson in the E400 so that she would know what to do if I passed out or if she needed to drive it in an emergency. When we drive to Florida I do it all, I would rather be driving than be the passenger.....probably a control issue. Most people split the driving, she would prefer not to drive unless she has to.

My wife is the same way, last time we drove to DC she drove maybe 20 minutes there and none of the way back.

snakeweasel

fintail said:

I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here

Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.

fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

Earlier this summer I was at a stoplight and a GMC pickup rolled up next to me with a St. Pierre and Miquelon license plate on the rear. Two things occurred to me: first, that it was the first one of those I had ever seen (it was rather handsome, a blue background with the EU circle of stars logo on the left); second, how it must have been one of the very few times that GMC had ever traveled over 30 mph or on an expressway. Hope the driver had a chance to blow out the carbon.

Their plates would be no different than the plates in France which really is pretty much the same as with every other country in the EU. the only difference would be the image in the upper righthand corner and the number below it.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here

Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.

fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.

They are also slightly de-contented Lamborghini though. Oh yeah, and 4-wheel Ducati's

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

Not a smart trunk guy here, but of all the cars I have had that had a remote trunk opener on the fob, all but one would pop the trunk just an inch or so when activated. The exception was the 2011 Regal, which opened the trunk fully - I guess it had powerful struts of some sort. Anyway, that was combined with a rather sensitive button on the fob to make for numerous times where the trunk would open inadvertently. I remember a couple of incidents where the trunk was wide open during the day in the parking deck at work. My office was in the building almost directly above the car. I guess reinforced concrete floors didn't stop the fob signal. Same thing happened a couple of times in the driveway at home. Not a good thing.

One thing I like about the wifes Sonata is that there is a small switch on the trunk latch. Activate it and the fob wont unlock the truck, nor will the trunk release button in the cabin nor the valet key unlock the trunk, only the main key will unlock the trunk.

I wish I had that on the rag top.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here

Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.

fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.

They are also slightly de-contented Lamborghini though. Oh yeah, and 4-wheel Ducati's

Come on, the TT is just a dressed up beetle.

stever

A TT will go 200 mph like a new Beetle? (CNET)

jmonroe

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

The E 400 needs a foot under the bumper, usually works but have to get it just right.

Sometimes I am behind the car and little Gig I runs just under the bumper and the lid pops open, now that can be aggravating.

You're supposed to keep the dog biscuits in your pocket, not under the car.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

stickguy said:

I have that feature on my sonata. hated it. first thing I did in the settings was turn it off.

kept finding the trunk ajar at random times, in the garage of driveway. Not a good thing.

also silly, because it only popped slightly, so still had to reach down and pull the trunk lid up to get into it.

The E 400 needs a foot under the bumper, usually works but have to get it just right.

Sometimes I am behind the car and little Gig I runs just under the bumper and the lid pops open, now that can be aggravating.

You're supposed to keep the dog biscuits in your pocket, not under the car.

jmonroe

I can't help it where she wants to go sniffing!

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here

Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.

fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.

They are also slightly de-contented Lamborghini though. Oh yeah, and 4-wheel Ducati's

Come on, the TT is just a dressed up beetle.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/audi-tt-rs-receives-substantial-performance-boost/

I wonder how much Audi will price that Beetle! Will pretty much outrun anything. I'm told the TT is not an uncommon daily driver in Germany.

explorerx4

@oldfarmer,
Maybe it worked out for me, not buying her 09 Escape.
She got offered a promotion at work, 20+% salary increase. better bonus pool(got 10% last year, not sure what the base was).
She said she was going to counter because he didn't want to leave any money on the table.
Last night, she posted a pic from a skybox rented out because the bigwigs were in town, instead of the regular company seats.
Promotion was accepted, too.
Old dad would have caved on a counter offer.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here

Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.

fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.

And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:

Take, for instance, the tiny European city runabout known as the Aston Martin Cygnet. In its most basic version it sells at more than $45,000. The car is actually made by Toyota and a Toyota version (identical except for some interior accoutrements) can be had for less than $17,000. On an apples-to-apples comparison, Which? reckons the average price discrepancy is more than $31,000. Thus those who prefer Aston Martin’s badge pay an outrageous three times more for exactly the same Toyota engineering!

oldfarmer50

K

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Driver, can't you just share a car for that short a time? If not, figure out when you really need it, and rent much cleaner overall.

I agree. Hard to share, my wife is all over the place doing her yoga, tennis, gym, bridge, doctor, dentist and other things women do, talk about doilies or something, and I have to be at tennis, pickleball , and....I guess that's about it.

I think renting is the best plan. The only one better is if someone sold me a great car for a low price, then I could sell it after 6 weeks.....but, there would be license, taxes, advertising, mechanical certificate.......I just talked myself out of that one.

C'mon now, man up and take her car early in the morning while Mrs. Driver is still sleeping and do what you want to do with it. You know she will be at home when you get back, right?

Do that once and let us know how that worked out.

jmonroe

Thanks for the idea.....not much tennis or pickleball before 6:30 a.m..

And, how would you like to get by with one car?

And, do you let Mrs. JM drive your car?

My wife can drive my car if she really has to....like if my arm and leg got broken. She doesn't really like driving it....too big (one reason I get a larger car).

I always say, there are 3 things I don't lend 1) my underwear, 2) my toothbrush, 3) my car!

Mrs. j does not like to drive ANY car but hers, once she gets used to a car she won't drive anything else. If she had a tank, once she got used to it that would be all she would want to drive.

jmonroe

I gave my wife a driving lesson in the E400 so that she would know what to do if I passed out or if she needed to drive it in an emergency. When we drive to Florida I do it all, I would rather be driving than be the passenger.....probably a control issue. Most people split the driving, she would prefer not to drive unless she has to.

Drive to Florida takes about 23 hours of actual driving time. About 8 hours 1st day, 9 the second, and 6 or 7 the third.

I wanted to show Mrs. j how to drive my car just in case an emergency of some type popped up and she said she could drive it if she HAD to.

As for driving when we go on vacation that is also out because she does not drive on interstates. Years ago when we went on a vacation, after we stopped to eat she said she would drive because she thought I looked tired. I reminded her that she didn't drive interstates but I guess she wanted to help me and insisted. Son#1 was of driving age at this time but he went with some of his friends to Ocean City MD ahead of us about 3 days earlier so he couldn't help with the driving and Son #2 did not even have his permit yet so he couldn't help drive. I finally agreed to let her drive figuring that it would be a good experience. WRONG, after about 2 miles I told her to pull over and let me have the wheel. She did not do anything wrong other than squeeze the life out of the steering wheel and drove just at the speed limit only in the right lane, even had semi's pass us and pull in front of us a few times. That did it, I took over from their and she said, "I was just getting the hank of it, you should have given me more time". Son #2 said, "Mom, we want to get there today while the sun is still shining and we can go into the ocean. You should learn on your own time".

That was the last time she ever did that and I ain't sorry one bit.

jmonroe

If I ever did that to my wife I'd still be standing on the side of the road. Not that she wouldn't have driven just like yours but she wouldn't tolerate being told about it.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here

Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.

fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.

And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:

Take, for instance, the tiny European city runabout known as the Aston Martin Cygnet. In its most basic version it sells at more than $45,000. The car is actually made by Toyota and a Toyota version (identical except for some interior accoutrements) can be had for less than $17,000. On an apples-to-apples comparison, Which? reckons the average price discrepancy is more than $31,000. Thus those who prefer Aston Martin’s badge pay an outrageous three times more for exactly the same Toyota engineering!

James Bond would shoot himself if he had to drive that!

stickguy

JM, nothing to complain to dealer about. It is doing what it is designed to do. I just don't want it popping every time I am behind the car for a few seconds (or often, my wife holding her purse). When I finally noticed, would have to go close it. I have never had an issue just reaching down and popping the handle.

besides, I only go to the dealer once a year, and no way I am making a special trip for something like this!

Travelling? I drive. My wife could if needed, but I prefer to drive, she prefers to ride, so no problem. Unless I can't for some reason (and on a trip, it would only be from being too tired, but if I was, she probably is too). We have made a bunch of trips from Jersey to NC (about 450 miles) and I don't think she has driven 1 mile of any of them.

fintail

Have any of those actually sold? Probably a future collector's piece, though. AM has a lot of brand equity right now.

driver100 said:

Take, for instance, the tiny European city runabout known as the Aston Martin Cygnet. In its most basic version it sells at more than $45,000. The car is actually made by Toyota and a Toyota version (identical except for some interior accoutrements) can be had for less than $17,000. On an apples-to-apples comparison, Which? reckons the average price discrepancy is more than $31,000. Thus those who prefer Aston Martin’s badge pay an outrageous three times more for exactly the same Toyota engineering! src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Toyota_iQ_20090621_front.JPG/1280px-Toyota_iQ_20090621_front.JPG" alt="" />

fintail

A TT is a very normal car in Germany - heck, they aren't uncommon in rental fleets there.

andres3 said:

I wonder how much Audi will price that Beetle! Will pretty much outrun anything. I'm told the TT is not an uncommon daily driver in Germany.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

K

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Driver, can't you just share a car for that short a time? If not, figure out when you really need it, and rent much cleaner overall.

I agree. Hard to share, my wife is all over the place doing her yoga, tennis, gym, bridge, doctor, dentist and other things women do, talk about doilies or something, and I have to be at tennis, pickleball , and....I guess that's about it.

I think renting is the best plan. The only one better is if someone sold me a great car for a low price, then I could sell it after 6 weeks.....but, there would be license, taxes, advertising, mechanical certificate.......I just talked myself out of that one.

C'mon now, man up and take her car early in the morning while Mrs. Driver is still sleeping and do what you want to do with it. You know she will be at home when you get back, right?

Do that once and let us know how that worked out.

jmonroe

Thanks for the idea.....not much tennis or pickleball before 6:30 a.m..

And, how would you like to get by with one car?

And, do you let Mrs. JM drive your car?

My wife can drive my car if she really has to....like if my arm and leg got broken. She doesn't really like driving it....too big (one reason I get a larger car).

I always say, there are 3 things I don't lend 1) my underwear, 2) my toothbrush, 3) my car!

Mrs. j does not like to drive ANY car but hers, once she gets used to a car she won't drive anything else. If she had a tank, once she got used to it that would be all she would want to drive.

jmonroe

I gave my wife a driving lesson in the E400 so that she would know what to do if I passed out or if she needed to drive it in an emergency. When we drive to Florida I do it all, I would rather be driving than be the passenger.....probably a control issue. Most people split the driving, she would prefer not to drive unless she has to.

Drive to Florida takes about 23 hours of actual driving time. About 8 hours 1st day, 9 the second, and 6 or 7 the third.

I wanted to show Mrs. j how to drive my car just in case an emergency of some type popped up and she said she could drive it if she HAD to.

As for driving when we go on vacation that is also out because she does not drive on interstates. Years ago when we went on a vacation, after we stopped to eat she said she would drive because she thought I looked tired. I reminded her that she didn't drive interstates but I guess she wanted to help me and insisted. Son#1 was of driving age at this time but he went with some of his friends to Ocean City MD ahead of us about 3 days earlier so he couldn't help with the driving and Son #2 did not even have his permit yet so he couldn't help drive. I finally agreed to let her drive figuring that it would be a good experience. WRONG, after about 2 miles I told her to pull over and let me have the wheel. She did not do anything wrong other than squeeze the life out of the steering wheel and drove just at the speed limit only in the right lane, even had semi's pass us and pull in front of us a few times. That did it, I took over from their and she said, "I was just getting the hank of it, you should have given me more time". Son #2 said, "Mom, we want to get there today while the sun is still shining and we can go into the ocean. You should learn on your own time".

That was the last time she ever did that and I ain't sorry one bit.

jmonroe

If I ever did that to my wife I'd still be standing on the side of the road. Not that she wouldn't have driven just like yours but she wouldn't tolerate being told about it.

I never said that she liked it but, in the end, she knew that she was very nervous about driving in all that traffic.

As for leaving me on the roadside she'd have had to leave her darling youngest Son too because of what he said and she was not going to do that to him.

That was a looong time ago, like in the late 80's, and surprisingly she rarely even mentions that anymore, but I can't say in all honesty that she has forgotten about it completely.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

K

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Driver, can't you just share a car for that short a time? If not, figure out when you really need it, and rent much cleaner overall.

I agree. Hard to share, my wife is all over the place doing her yoga, tennis, gym, bridge, doctor, dentist and other things women do, talk about doilies or something, and I have to be at tennis, pickleball , and....I guess that's about it.

I think renting is the best plan. The only one better is if someone sold me a great car for a low price, then I could sell it after 6 weeks.....but, there would be license, taxes, advertising, mechanical certificate.......I just talked myself out of that one.

C'mon now, man up and take her car early in the morning while Mrs. Driver is still sleeping and do what you want to do with it. You know she will be at home when you get back, right?

Do that once and let us know how that worked out.

jmonroe

Thanks for the idea.....not much tennis or pickleball before 6:30 a.m..

And, how would you like to get by with one car?

And, do you let Mrs. JM drive your car?

My wife can drive my car if she really has to....like if my arm and leg got broken. She doesn't really like driving it....too big (one reason I get a larger car).

I always say, there are 3 things I don't lend 1) my underwear, 2) my toothbrush, 3) my car!

Mrs. j does not like to drive ANY car but hers, once she gets used to a car she won't drive anything else. If she had a tank, once she got used to it that would be all she would want to drive.

jmonroe

I gave my wife a driving lesson in the E400 so that she would know what to do if I passed out or if she needed to drive it in an emergency. When we drive to Florida I do it all, I would rather be driving than be the passenger.....probably a control issue. Most people split the driving, she would prefer not to drive unless she has to.

Drive to Florida takes about 23 hours of actual driving time. About 8 hours 1st day, 9 the second, and 6 or 7 the third.

I wanted to show Mrs. j how to drive my car just in case an emergency of some type popped up and she said she could drive it if she HAD to.

As for driving when we go on vacation that is also out because she does not drive on interstates. Years ago when we went on a vacation, after we stopped to eat she said she would drive because she thought I looked tired. I reminded her that she didn't drive interstates but I guess she wanted to help me and insisted. Son#1 was of driving age at this time but he went with some of his friends to Ocean City MD ahead of us about 3 days earlier so he couldn't help with the driving and Son #2 did not even have his permit yet so he couldn't help drive. I finally agreed to let her drive figuring that it would be a good experience. WRONG, after about 2 miles I told her to pull over and let me have the wheel. She did not do anything wrong other than squeeze the life out of the steering wheel and drove just at the speed limit only in the right lane, even had semi's pass us and pull in front of us a few times. That did it, I took over from their and she said, "I was just getting the hank of it, you should have given me more time". Son #2 said, "Mom, we want to get there today while the sun is still shining and we can go into the ocean. You should learn on your own time".

That was the last time she ever did that and I ain't sorry one bit.

jmonroe

If I ever did that to my wife I'd still be standing on the side of the road. Not that she wouldn't have driven just like yours but she wouldn't tolerate being told about it.

I never said that she liked it but, in the end, she knew that she was very nervous about driving in all that traffic.

As for leaving me on the roadside she'd have had to leave her darling youngest Son too because of what he said and she was not going to do that to him.

That was a looong time ago, like in the late 80's, and surprisingly she rarely even mentions that anymore, but I can't say in all honesty that she has forgotten about it completely.

jmonroe

Ha ha....and she never will.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:

And you hit on one reason that I tend to shy away from luxury cars.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

K

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Driver, can't you just share a car for that short a time? If not, figure out when you really need it, and rent much cleaner overall.

I agree. Hard to share, my wife is all over the place doing her yoga, tennis, gym, bridge, doctor, dentist and other things women do, talk about doilies or something, and I have to be at tennis, pickleball , and....I guess that's about it.

I think renting is the best plan. The only one better is if someone sold me a great car for a low price, then I could sell it after 6 weeks.....but, there would be license, taxes, advertising, mechanical certificate.......I just talked myself out of that one.

C'mon now, man up and take her car early in the morning while Mrs. Driver is still sleeping and do what you want to do with it. You know she will be at home when you get back, right?

Do that once and let us know how that worked out.

jmonroe

Thanks for the idea.....not much tennis or pickleball before 6:30 a.m..

And, how would you like to get by with one car?

And, do you let Mrs. JM drive your car?

My wife can drive my car if she really has to....like if my arm and leg got broken. She doesn't really like driving it....too big (one reason I get a larger car).

I always say, there are 3 things I don't lend 1) my underwear, 2) my toothbrush, 3) my car!

Mrs. j does not like to drive ANY car but hers, once she gets used to a car she won't drive anything else. If she had a tank, once she got used to it that would be all she would want to drive.

jmonroe

I gave my wife a driving lesson in the E400 so that she would know what to do if I passed out or if she needed to drive it in an emergency. When we drive to Florida I do it all, I would rather be driving than be the passenger.....probably a control issue. Most people split the driving, she would prefer not to drive unless she has to.

Drive to Florida takes about 23 hours of actual driving time. About 8 hours 1st day, 9 the second, and 6 or 7 the third.

I wanted to show Mrs. j how to drive my car just in case an emergency of some type popped up and she said she could drive it if she HAD to.

As for driving when we go on vacation that is also out because she does not drive on interstates. Years ago when we went on a vacation, after we stopped to eat she said she would drive because she thought I looked tired. I reminded her that she didn't drive interstates but I guess she wanted to help me and insisted. Son#1 was of driving age at this time but he went with some of his friends to Ocean City MD ahead of us about 3 days earlier so he couldn't help with the driving and Son #2 did not even have his permit yet so he couldn't help drive. I finally agreed to let her drive figuring that it would be a good experience. WRONG, after about 2 miles I told her to pull over and let me have the wheel. She did not do anything wrong other than squeeze the life out of the steering wheel and drove just at the speed limit only in the right lane, even had semi's pass us and pull in front of us a few times. That did it, I took over from their and she said, "I was just getting the hank of it, you should have given me more time". Son #2 said, "Mom, we want to get there today while the sun is still shining and we can go into the ocean. You should learn on your own time".

That was the last time she ever did that and I ain't sorry one bit.

jmonroe

If I ever did that to my wife I'd still be standing on the side of the road. Not that she wouldn't have driven just like yours but she wouldn't tolerate being told about it.

Not my wife, she would have let me drive. Now she wouldn't talk to be for the next few days over it but she wouldn't leave me there.

sda

My wife likes to drive and she is a good driver. Very tuned into what is going on around her and what her vehicle is doing. We take turns driving on trips. She is a great map reader and is a master at finding alternative routes on her smart phone. Less map reading these days since we use the Garmin and smart phone.

qbrozen

snakeweasel said:

And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:

And you hit on one reason that I tend to shy away from luxury cars.

EXCEPT, there are those that are totally different. For example, Maximas and Altimas are FWD and therefore no Infiniti equivalent. The only Lexus car that crosses over (I think) is the ES. And there are many other examples of course.

dino001

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here

Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.

fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.

Yes and know - depends which ones. A8, A7, A6 are not glorified anything. A3 is truly a glorified Jetta/Golf. Many others are a bit in between - same platforms, lots of unique features. There may be some resemblence between TT and Beetle, but those truly are different vehicles.

qbrozen

I though the A6 was the Passat? Or is that just the old ones?

dino001

qbrozen said:

I though the A6 was the Passat? Or is that just the old ones?

Not to my knowledge. Passat and A6 have never been in the same league. A6 is its own model that may be sharing some far down DNA with Passat, similar way to say Cadillac CTS with Chevrolet Malibu or Impala. At what point can you call it separate? Just because you start somewhere, doesn't mean you end up with "glorified" version. It all depends how many changes are made. If you switched badges, body work, liner and dashboard switches, sure. If you put a different engine (or modified to produce more hp and torque, to be precise and have also version not even available on the other line, like V8), transmission, suspension, stretch the chassis to give more legroom, more trunk space, at which point is it a different car?

A4 and Passat are much more "blood relatives", they've shared same floor, but their layouts are also quite different (e.g. engine position on the compartment, type of all wheel drive system, etc.).

There is no denying VW likes to cross-feed the components, but "glorified" putdowns apply in low-end market models, where the overlap is quite obvious (the lower, the more).

fintail

I think the "glorified" comment I heard was more in regards to switchgear (I remember the guy going on about door panel parts) and components, but yeah, I think there's a good history linking A4 to Passat. Phaeton is also an interesting one, with links to both A8 and Teutonic Bentley - in that case, the more mainstream badge received benefit, an actual case of trickle down witchcraft at work

dino001

But A8 was before Phaeton, not the other way around. Phaeton was an experiment to take A8, make it more "folksy" and "edgy" and sell it for a bit less. It failed, cause it was still too much for a VW. There is no Phaeton today.

If MB used some of its tech in Smart (or BMW into Mini), does it mean now that the originals are somehow tainted, or became "glorified" versions of their younger cousins? Don't think so.

As I mentioned, A4/Passat, or A3/Golf/Jetta can be seen as closely related to the point of "glorification". Anything beyond that, it's much less obvious.

qbrozen

OK, so it was Passat and A4. I knew there was a connection there somewhere.

stickguy

gets murkier, once the maker really gets going with modular platforms. Then it really is the "same" car underneath, just stretched maybe. With the details of course changed to fit the model. But the next A3 will really be on the same platform as the current golf and next Jetta.

Volvo has this now with their model line. basically small, medium, large lengths (I assume some width sectioned in too) of the same chassis, right down to the engines.

fintail

Yep that's along the lines of what I said, the higher models trickled down to the Phaeton, which went over like a lead balloon here. However, the Phaeton is alive and well in Germany and other markets.

If MB or BMW based a premium branded car on a Mini or Smart, I am certain there would be howls.

andres3

qbrozen said:

OK, so it was Passat and A4. I knew there was a connection there somewhere.

I've driven a B8.5 S4 and a B9 A4 and a current model '16 Passat. There is no comparison. The Passat is nice and all, but there is just no comparison.

Park an '06 A3 (sport package) next to a '06 GTI and I'd be glad to point out all the differences to someone. They might be similar, but you get a lot of upgrades for your money in the Audi. The '15+ GTI's have gotten so nice, they have caught up to being a lot like my '06 A3, and they cost about the same too.

qbrozen

I'm well aware of the differences. I've even argued that side myself before.