Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

henryn

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Looks like there is a big sell off on cruises. I got this from Travelzoo this week:

Weeklong Royal Caribbean cruises are at some of their lowest prices of the year in a sale that runs for the next five days. These deals include up to $175 in onboard credit (per cabin, depending on the itinerary) and a complimentary bottle of wine.

We've sifted through the sale on Cruise.com, and here are some of the best 2016 Caribbean sailings we're finding from Florida:

$309 ... Roundtrip from Miami including Jamaica and Grand Cayman
Depart Nov. 21 aboard Empress of the Seas

$416 ... Roundtrip from Tampa including Belize and Cozumel
Depart Dec. 10 aboard Rhapsody of the Seas

$524 ... Roundtrip from Port Canaveral including Nassau and St. Thomas
Depart Nov. 27 aboard Oasis of the Seas

If you can get that $416 deal, Mrs. j and I will join you and we'll go halfzsees with you. Just make sure our bed is at least a queen.

jmonroe

Do you mean you will share a room with us....a queen size bed for 4?

There are very few cruises we would consider.....too many at sea days and too much time on a ship. For GG it is different, he needs a break from his usual routine, and just wants some R&R....besides single ladies seem to really enjoy cruises.

I liked the cruises we were on, The Baltic cruise allowed us to see St Petersburg Russia which is almost the only way to see it unless you go thru the trouble of getting a VISA. Egyptian cruise was a good way to see the pyramids without staying in downtown Cairo. Rome cruise was a good way to see Venice and Pompeii. So, our criteria is, you see a few places that would be hard to get to if you did them on separate trips, and, you have to learn from the trip. The food, the drinks, the casino, the paintings, the photos they sell you, the at sea days, the dozens of extras they try to sell you (like bottled water) I just don't want to be bothered with.

We are considering...about the only cruise I think we would take - a Panama Cruise.

You mis-read what I said. I said we (Mrs. and I) have to have our own queen size bed. You guys can sleep on the balcony if only one queen bed is provided.

As for cruises, we took our first cruise in 2001 and at the time I wasn't all that impressed although we didn't have any problems at all. When I retired at the end of February of 2015 we she thought that we should try it as my retirement present. So we went on a cruise in March 2015.

I'm warming up to them now and can't argue when people say they are a great bargain all things considered. If you do all of what they suggest it is just too much running around and then the price soars. I like to relax when on vacation so even though cruises are like camps for adults, we do it our way.

jmonroe

stickguy

no real surprises on that list.

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Looks like there is a big sell off on cruises. I got this from Travelzoo this week:

Weeklong Royal Caribbean cruises are at some of their lowest prices of the year in a sale that runs for the next five days. These deals include up to $175 in onboard credit (per cabin, depending on the itinerary) and a complimentary bottle of wine.

We've sifted through the sale on Cruise.com, and here are some of the best 2016 Caribbean sailings we're finding from Florida:

$309 ... Roundtrip from Miami including Jamaica and Grand Cayman
Depart Nov. 21 aboard Empress of the Seas

$416 ... Roundtrip from Tampa including Belize and Cozumel
Depart Dec. 10 aboard Rhapsody of the Seas

$524 ... Roundtrip from Port Canaveral including Nassau and St. Thomas
Depart Nov. 27 aboard Oasis of the Seas

If you can get that $416 deal, Mrs. j and I will join you and we'll go halfzsees with you. Just make sure our bed is at least a queen.

jmonroe

Do you mean you will share a room with us....a queen size bed for 4?

There are very few cruises we would consider.....too many at sea days and too much time on a ship. For GG it is different, he needs a break from his usual routine, and just wants some R&R....besides single ladies seem to really enjoy cruises.

I liked the cruises we were on, The Baltic cruise allowed us to see St Petersburg Russia which is almost the only way to see it unless you go thru the trouble of getting a VISA. Egyptian cruise was a good way to see the pyramids without staying in downtown Cairo. Rome cruise was a good way to see Venice and Pompeii. So, our criteria is, you see a few places that would be hard to get to if you did them on separate trips, and, you have to learn from the trip. The food, the drinks, the casino, the paintings, the photos they sell you, the at sea days, the dozens of extras they try to sell you (like bottled water) I just don't want to be bothered with.

We are considering...about the only cruise I think we would take - a Panama Cruise.

You mis-read what I said. I said we (Mrs. and I) have to have our own queen size bed. You guys can sleep on the balcony if only one queen bed is provided.
jmonroe

lol...I knew what you said but I just twisted it around a bit...for the fun of it

This is an incredible trip and value, and probably includes 2 internal flights. And, internal flights in China are nice....they will actually give you a little lunch box with a sandwich and cookies.

For $799 per person, including roundtrip airfare, you'll spend a week in China with all of the must-see stops that you'd include if you were planning this itinerary yourself: The Great Wall of China, Tiananmen Square and the Forbidden City in Beijing; Xi'an, the homeland of the famous Terra Cotta Warriors; and Shanghai's the Bund.

driver100

henryn said:

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

Wow, cars dropping 30% in value after one year. Quite a few of those are bargains, others, probably deserve to drop that much. Seems like a sweet spot if you want a pretty new car, for an excellent price.

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

JMonroe, Great story and well told....even if you did cheat with notes

You taught your son well, you should be proud. He negotiated very nicely, and everyone treated each other with respect and courtesy. It sounds like a terrific deal, but does a Fusion get up to $38000?

I am glad he took it at $21,650, it would be a shame to lose it for $350, less than $100 a year probably.

When my Son told me that the window sticker for his 2014 was over $38K I was surprised too. He said it cost that much because it was a Titanium with all the bells and whistles (not that he necessarily had to have all of that). If you think that is bad, my Son told me that the 2017 Fusion Titanium all tricked out will go for a little over $40K. It ain't your grandfathers Ford anymore.
jmonroe

I realized my Titanium model Escape has all the bells and whistles, rear camera, keyless and blind spot warnings - thoough it is hard to see since it is a tiny orange dot on the mirror. My impression is when the orange light actually lights up the car coming up on the left side is about 2 feet behind my bumper - in other words it is pretty close!

But over $40k for a Fusion.....I mean you can get an A4, BMW 328 and Mercedes C Class for not too much more! The Fusion is pretty good, and so is my Escape rental, but they aren't entry level luxo cars.

One thing with the Escape though, I had to turn left through a line of traffic and they let me through a lot sooner in the Escape than the MB.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

My Son was little skeptical about that story but the salesman seemed to be a pretty straight shooter about everything else so he thought that since this was possible he'd believe it.

In any case, he got it for what appears to be a good price so he is still happy about buying it.

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

From a Corvette to a Sentra in one day!

ab348

jmonroe said:

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

Just say no, @oldfarmer50 ...

jmonroe

ab348 said:

jmonroe said:

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

Just say no, @oldfarmer50 ...

Hey, $7,250 for that beast is a steal but for a poster buddy like @oldfarmer50 I will work my Son over so he will let it go for $6,990.

jmonroe

venture

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

JMonroe, Great story and well told....even if you did cheat with notes

You taught your son well, you should be proud. He negotiated very nicely, and everyone treated each other with respect and courtesy. It sounds like a terrific deal, but does a Fusion get up to $38000?

I am glad he took it at $21,650, it would be a shame to lose it for $350, less than $100 a year probably.

When my Son told me that the window sticker for his 2014 was over $38K I was surprised too. He said it cost that much because it was a Titanium with all the bells and whistles (not that he necessarily had to have all of that). If you think that is bad, my Son told me that the 2017 Fusion Titanium all tricked out will go for a little over $40K. It ain't your grandfathers Ford anymore.

As I said before, if push came to shove, he would have paid the dealer asking price of $22,000 because he felt that was reasonable and it was EXACTLY what he wanted...colors, wheels, sunroof, everything. Having only 6200 miles on it was like getting 2 cherries on a sundae.

jmonroe

That Fusion is the same thing I have, but my MSRP was around 36k. It must have about every option for an extra $2,000. Mine also has the, slightly rare, Y spoke 19" wheels. Mine is also AWD which I assume his is also for that sticker price.

The 2.0 4 cylinder runs pretty good. 240 HP using premium gas and (I think) 280 lb/ft of twist. You can get Eco or you can get Boost. You cannot get both.

The 1.6 was the fire prone engine. That's what I had in the Escape I had for 7 months.

The 2017 Fusion Sport has me a little interested.

oldfarmer50

B

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

My Son was little skeptical about that story but the salesman seemed to be a pretty straight shooter about everything else so he thought that since this was possible he'd believe it.

In any case, he got it for what appears to be a good price so he is still happy about buying it.

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

Take a zero off that milage and I'm in.

snakeweasel

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

New car looks nice Driver

Thanks berri. It isn't nice having to wait 4 months for my new car to come in.......the anticipation is a little hard to take.....2 months down, 2 to go. I think I will really appreciate it once it gets here.

I'm sure you will.

Keep this one safe, don't stop at anymore yellow lights!

jmonroe

I am not sure uyou were here when I heard from the "Supervisor of Accident Reconstruction". I may be repeating myself for some but he said:
*I did the right thing by stopping for the yellow light
*You can't argue with physics and science, the truck was not a safe distance behind or he would have stopped.
*The cop has to rewrite the accident report for their records, which is a real slap in the face for him
*The cop will be monitored to see how his accident reports are written up
*They will retrain this cop to look at the scene of the accident and use that when recording, not go by the driver at faults version of events
*They will review training for future cops.

He made it sound like it would be a long slow process to charge the truck driver at this point. I am OK with what was done, though I think there is still a very dangerous truck driver on the roads.

That truck driver just needs to pay attention while driving and that'll make him safe. The only reason you rear-end someone is because you are not paying attention or leaving enough following distance. I think it is the former as you said you didn't brake hard. 100%.

I'm sure there are a couple government agencies that are insurance-friendly that'll attribute these accidents to being speed-related! Got to pad those numbers people like @snakeweasel like to cite!

Isn't driving too close related to speed. In my accident, I believe driving too close was the end result, but I think the truck drivers aggressive driving, mainly speed, was a factor. I understand he has a route, and the faster he picks up his dumpsters, the more money he makes. It is like all those trucks making "just in time" deliveries, or pizza drivers having to deliver within 20 minutes......excess speed is the problem, driving too close is a result.

As others pointed out, you can follow too closely at any speed, even far below the arbitrarily posted speed limit. Therefore, I have to conclude they are entirely unrelated.

My conclusion would be speed is irrelevant, following too closely is the problem. Many accidents are the result of following too closely. The faster you go, the more braking distance you may need; I think everyone understands that. Failure to follow that simple principle makes it a "following too closely" error. Another example, I may be able to follow cars more closely safely with sport brake pads and summer tires, whereas if I'm driving a BIG old heavy SUV with low rolling resistance tires, the results might be different. The driver should adjust to the abilities and conditions of their vehicle; just the same as with weather and visibility conditions.

Given that he hit you at a fairly high rate of speed, it doesn't seem to me that speed was a factor. My argument would be that in order for the accident to be honestly marked speed related, you'd have to show me the time and distance that the vehicle was braking prior to the collision. You'd then have to show me that had the vehicle been going the speed limit or lower, they'd of been able to avoid the collision given that known time and distance of braking that occurred. When little to no braking occurs, it tells me that speed was irrelevant, and that simple distraction was the cause. You can crash going 1 MPH even if you cruise at 1 MPH if you never hit the brakes!

You can spin it any way you want, but following too closely is speeding. It is simply going to fast for that particular condition. You can be walking and if you bump into the person in front of you you are walking too fast.

Spin away but you won't convince me no matter how long or how hard you try to spin it.

jmonroe

While following to close technically isn't speeding it is a byproduct of speeding (or the desire to speed). It's the desire of the following car wanting to go faster.

An example, yesterday a Jeep got behind me and was following way to close, couldn't see her headlights. If I had to come to a sudden stop there would have been no way that she would have been able to hit her brakes before hitting me. Now she didn't start off anywhere near me but came up behind me at a much faster rate than I was going and I wasn't going slow. She was behind me that way for better part of a mile then passed me (in a no passing zone to boot) and took off.

The funny thing was I ended up right behind her three miles later at the next light so it really didn't get her anywhere faster.

If she wasn't going, and wanted to go, at an excessive speed she would never have been so close to me.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

'

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

Well the Cubs made a great come from behind victory in the 9th last night in San Francisco to advance to the National league championship series. With Toronto and Cleveland fighting it out for the American League championship that makes 3 of the 4 remaining teams Great Lakes teams. 

Still awaiting word on time and place of Crawford's public execution.

Talk about politically correct, the Jays announcer will not use the word "Indians" when naming the team.

I'll join the bandwagon of getting certain teams like the Indians and the Redskins to change their name when those who want those name changes demand that the Yankees also change their name.

I'm planning a lawsuit against Notre Dame for their insulting portrayal of my Irish heritage.

Although my wife claims that little guy mascot is an accurate representation of my attitude.

In other news, my low mile car addiction is getting out of hand as I am considering this little fixer upper:




http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5826025161.html

I think I need help!

I am not good at this, but, I would check it out carefully. In the fourth picture from the left the door looks like a very different blue than the rest of the car. Also, the odometer shows 55522 but the 22 is at a different level, aren't the numbers supposed to be level if odometer isn't tampered with? Wheel discs look a bit off IMHO.

It looks like it has been through more than 55k............but, I am playing devils advocate.

The different looking blue color could be how the light is hitting the two different parts of the car (which could indicate something bad) or just be a fluke in the picture, best to see it in person. Mechanical odometers do have a tendency to get out of alignment as they turn and since that last number had to revolve 5500 times it's a good possibility that the alignment is just due to use, best to check things that would have enough wear that would indicate excessive miles (like the pedals) .

The glass top seems to have a pretty good chuck broken off, that's a warning sign too. I would be leery about it and look it over closely.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

B

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

My Son was little skeptical about that story but the salesman seemed to be a pretty straight shooter about everything else so he thought that since this was possible he'd believe it.

In any case, he got it for what appears to be a good price so he is still happy about buying it.

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

Take a zero off that milage and I'm in.

If he takes a zero off the mileage, he will probably add a zero to the price.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

no real surprises on that list.

I was going to say the same thing but I didn't think the Volvo S60 would take such a hit. The others all make sense.

andres3

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

New car looks nice Driver

Thanks berri. It isn't nice having to wait 4 months for my new car to come in.......the anticipation is a little hard to take.....2 months down, 2 to go. I think I will really appreciate it once it gets here.

I'm sure you will.

Keep this one safe, don't stop at anymore yellow lights!

jmonroe

I am not sure uyou were here when I heard from the "Supervisor of Accident Reconstruction". I may be repeating myself for some but he said:
*I did the right thing by stopping for the yellow light
*You can't argue with physics and science, the truck was not a safe distance behind or he would have stopped.
*The cop has to rewrite the accident report for their records, which is a real slap in the face for him
*The cop will be monitored to see how his accident reports are written up
*They will retrain this cop to look at the scene of the accident and use that when recording, not go by the driver at faults version of events
*They will review training for future cops.

He made it sound like it would be a long slow process to charge the truck driver at this point. I am OK with what was done, though I think there is still a very dangerous truck driver on the roads.

That truck driver just needs to pay attention while driving and that'll make him safe. The only reason you rear-end someone is because you are not paying attention or leaving enough following distance. I think it is the former as you said you didn't brake hard. 100%.

I'm sure there are a couple government agencies that are insurance-friendly that'll attribute these accidents to being speed-related! Got to pad those numbers people like @snakeweasel like to cite!

Isn't driving too close related to speed. In my accident, I believe driving too close was the end result, but I think the truck drivers aggressive driving, mainly speed, was a factor. I understand he has a route, and the faster he picks up his dumpsters, the more money he makes. It is like all those trucks making "just in time" deliveries, or pizza drivers having to deliver within 20 minutes......excess speed is the problem, driving too close is a result.

As others pointed out, you can follow too closely at any speed, even far below the arbitrarily posted speed limit. Therefore, I have to conclude they are entirely unrelated.

My conclusion would be speed is irrelevant, following too closely is the problem. Many accidents are the result of following too closely. The faster you go, the more braking distance you may need; I think everyone understands that. Failure to follow that simple principle makes it a "following too closely" error. Another example, I may be able to follow cars more closely safely with sport brake pads and summer tires, whereas if I'm driving a BIG old heavy SUV with low rolling resistance tires, the results might be different. The driver should adjust to the abilities and conditions of their vehicle; just the same as with weather and visibility conditions.

Given that he hit you at a fairly high rate of speed, it doesn't seem to me that speed was a factor. My argument would be that in order for the accident to be honestly marked speed related, you'd have to show me the time and distance that the vehicle was braking prior to the collision. You'd then have to show me that had the vehicle been going the speed limit or lower, they'd of been able to avoid the collision given that known time and distance of braking that occurred. When little to no braking occurs, it tells me that speed was irrelevant, and that simple distraction was the cause. You can crash going 1 MPH even if you cruise at 1 MPH if you never hit the brakes!

You can spin it any way you want, but following too closely is speeding. It is simply going to fast for that particular condition. You can be walking and if you bump into the person in front of you you are walking too fast.

Spin away but you won't convince me no matter how long or how hard you try to spin it.

jmonroe

I think the only one spinning around here is you.

The pedestrian walking into the person in front of them simply could have changed lanes one person's width to the left and passed without bumping the person in front of them. I don't see the problem with walking faster than someone else when the sidewalk is wide enough to allow multiple lanes.

Same with traffic. It is why lane laws and courtesy are so important to smooth flow of traffic, and why it is so frustrating that our enforcement resources are wasted chasing non-safety related violations in the name of revenue, rather than things that would improve conditions for everyone.

andres3

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

'

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

Well the Cubs made a great come from behind victory in the 9th last night in San Francisco to advance to the National league championship series. With Toronto and Cleveland fighting it out for the American League championship that makes 3 of the 4 remaining teams Great Lakes teams. 

Still awaiting word on time and place of Crawford's public execution.

Talk about politically correct, the Jays announcer will not use the word "Indians" when naming the team.

I'll join the bandwagon of getting certain teams like the Indians and the Redskins to change their name when those who want those name changes demand that the Yankees also change their name.

I'm planning a lawsuit against Notre Dame for their insulting portrayal of my Irish heritage.

Although my wife claims that little guy mascot is an accurate representation of my attitude.

In other news, my low mile car addiction is getting out of hand as I am considering this little fixer upper:




http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5826025161.html

I think I need help!

It looks like it has been through more than 55k............but, I am playing devils advocate.

Isn't that the case with any GM car from that era. It'll always look like it's been through 255,000 miles when it has 55,000 miles?

stickguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

stickguy said:

no real surprises on that list.

I was going to say the same thing but I didn't think the Volvo S60 would take such a hit. The others all make sense.

S60 I think is pretty pricey at MSRP, so is going to depreciate pretty quickly from that. which is why you should not pay close to MSRP, or get a lightly used one.

scoped out that off lease dealer Sandy posted about. They have some real nice stuff, and seriously low prices. If they are legit, and sell quality units, worth a flight to FLA and a nice drive home!

andres3

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

jmonroe

I would have asked him how many people he thought paid $38K for a Ford Fusion.

andres3

henryn said:

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

So in summary, buy the world's most undesirable and/or overpriced vehicles used rather than new. Got it!

Of the 12 listed the Caddy ATS, Jaguar XF, Kia Cadenza, and Volvo S60 are the only models I'd offer more than 70% of market value for.

jmonroe

andres3 said:

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

New car looks nice Driver

Thanks berri. It isn't nice having to wait 4 months for my new car to come in.......the anticipation is a little hard to take.....2 months down, 2 to go. I think I will really appreciate it once it gets here.

I'm sure you will.

Keep this one safe, don't stop at anymore yellow lights!

jmonroe

I am not sure uyou were here when I heard from the "Supervisor of Accident Reconstruction". I may be repeating myself for some but he said:
*I did the right thing by stopping for the yellow light
*You can't argue with physics and science, the truck was not a safe distance behind or he would have stopped.
*The cop has to rewrite the accident report for their records, which is a real slap in the face for him
*The cop will be monitored to see how his accident reports are written up
*They will retrain this cop to look at the scene of the accident and use that when recording, not go by the driver at faults version of events
*They will review training for future cops.

He made it sound like it would be a long slow process to charge the truck driver at this point. I am OK with what was done, though I think there is still a very dangerous truck driver on the roads.

That truck driver just needs to pay attention while driving and that'll make him safe. The only reason you rear-end someone is because you are not paying attention or leaving enough following distance. I think it is the former as you said you didn't brake hard. 100%.

I'm sure there are a couple government agencies that are insurance-friendly that'll attribute these accidents to being speed-related! Got to pad those numbers people like @snakeweasel like to cite!

Isn't driving too close related to speed. In my accident, I believe driving too close was the end result, but I think the truck drivers aggressive driving, mainly speed, was a factor. I understand he has a route, and the faster he picks up his dumpsters, the more money he makes. It is like all those trucks making "just in time" deliveries, or pizza drivers having to deliver within 20 minutes......excess speed is the problem, driving too close is a result.

As others pointed out, you can follow too closely at any speed, even far below the arbitrarily posted speed limit. Therefore, I have to conclude they are entirely unrelated.

My conclusion would be speed is irrelevant, following too closely is the problem. Many accidents are the result of following too closely. The faster you go, the more braking distance you may need; I think everyone understands that. Failure to follow that simple principle makes it a "following too closely" error. Another example, I may be able to follow cars more closely safely with sport brake pads and summer tires, whereas if I'm driving a BIG old heavy SUV with low rolling resistance tires, the results might be different. The driver should adjust to the abilities and conditions of their vehicle; just the same as with weather and visibility conditions.

Given that he hit you at a fairly high rate of speed, it doesn't seem to me that speed was a factor. My argument would be that in order for the accident to be honestly marked speed related, you'd have to show me the time and distance that the vehicle was braking prior to the collision. You'd then have to show me that had the vehicle been going the speed limit or lower, they'd of been able to avoid the collision given that known time and distance of braking that occurred. When little to no braking occurs, it tells me that speed was irrelevant, and that simple distraction was the cause. You can crash going 1 MPH even if you cruise at 1 MPH if you never hit the brakes!

You can spin it any way you want, but following too closely is speeding. It is simply going to fast for that particular condition. You can be walking and if you bump into the person in front of you you are walking too fast.

Spin away but you won't convince me no matter how long or how hard you try to spin it.

jmonroe

I think the only one spinning around here is you.

The pedestrian walking into the person in front of them simply could have changed lanes one person's width to the left and passed without bumping the person in front of them. I don't see the problem with walking faster than someone else when the sidewalk is wide enough to allow multiple lanes.

Same with traffic. It is why lane laws and courtesy are so important to smooth flow of traffic, and why it is so frustrating that our enforcement resources are wasted chasing non-safety related violations in the name of revenue, rather than things that would improve conditions for everyone.

Let's face it, you are obsessed with going fast/speeding. Call it what you like. Once you recognize that you will be half way through your therapy.

jmonroe

murphydog

GWAD - can we leave the snake and andres t1t-for-tat out of this? it is exhausting to read the back and forth, and neither one of you are going to change the others mind.

Perhaps you 2 can simply email each other directly?

qbrozen

murphydog said:

GWAD - can we leave the snake and andres t1t-for-tat out of this? it is exhausting to read the back and forth, and neither one of you are going to change the others mind.

Perhaps you 2 can simply email each other directly?

? So why are you reading it? I certainly haven't been.

houdini1

henryn said:

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

I have heard on this forum the reason not to buy a Hyundai is because of the depreciation...but it looks like Hyundai didn't make the list.

houdini1

oldfarmer50 said:

B

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

My Son was little skeptical about that story but the salesman seemed to be a pretty straight shooter about everything else so he thought that since this was possible he'd believe it.

In any case, he got it for what appears to be a good price so he is still happy about buying it.

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

Take a zero off that milage and I'm in.

Careful, that can be done you know.

jmonroe

houdini1 said:

henryn said:

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

I have heard on this forum the reason not to buy a Hyundai is because of the depreciation...but it looks like Hyundai didn't make the list.



That just proves you can't believe everything you read on the Internet.

jmonroe

andres3

While following to close technically isn't speeding it is a byproduct of speeding (or the desire to speed). It's the desire of the following car wanting to go faster.

An example, yesterday a Jeep got behind me and was following way to close, couldn't see her headlights. If I had to come to a sudden stop there would have been no way that she would have been able to hit her brakes before hitting me. Now she didn't start off anywhere near me but came up behind me at a much faster rate than I was going and I wasn't going slow. She was behind me that way for better part of a mile then passed me (in a no passing zone to boot) and took off.

The funny thing was I ended up right behind her three miles later at the next light so it really didn't get her anywhere faster.

If she wasn't going, and wanted to go, at an excessive speed she would never have been so close to me.

Too much red meat here to dissect:

When you get dangerously cut off because the person changing lanes can't bother to look or be situationally aware, you can be going at any speed short of speeding and still be following too closely momentarily because they just cut you off dangerously.

Now I know some people define "speeding" differently, depending on the day of the week, but for the purposes of this argument about following too closely, let's use the absolute definition where the two black numbers on an aluminum sign were placed there by the hand of your deity of your choice themselves.

You can be following too closely because the moron in front of you is going 15 under the speed limit for no particular reason at all.

You can be following too closely because the moron in front of you decides to brake check you, or simply slows down to match the speed of the car to their right to create a rolling road block.

You can be following too closely because you simply enjoy pushing cars in front of you forward, and/or enjoy rear-ending people.

You can be following too closely because you enjoy intimidating people out of your lane.

A good example is sometimes a left lane camper will start following you too closely when you get in front of them.

Road rage often leads to following too closely, which as shown in previous arguments, doesn't necessarily involve speeding. Not everyone drives +/- 1 MPH of the speed limit.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

murphydog said:

GWAD - can we leave the snake and andres t1t-for-tat out of this? it is exhausting to read the back and forth, and neither one of you are going to change the others mind.

Perhaps you 2 can simply email each other directly?

? So why are you reading it? I certainly haven't been.

+1

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

'

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

Well the Cubs made a great come from behind victory in the 9th last night in San Francisco to advance to the National league championship series. With Toronto and Cleveland fighting it out for the American League championship that makes 3 of the 4 remaining teams Great Lakes teams. 

Still awaiting word on time and place of Crawford's public execution.

Talk about politically correct, the Jays announcer will not use the word "Indians" when naming the team.

I'll join the bandwagon of getting certain teams like the Indians and the Redskins to change their name when those who want those name changes demand that the Yankees also change their name.

I'm planning a lawsuit against Notre Dame for their insulting portrayal of my Irish heritage.

Although my wife claims that little guy mascot is an accurate representation of my attitude.

In other news, my low mile car addiction is getting out of hand as I am considering this little fixer upper:




http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5826025161.html

I think I need help!

It looks like it has been through more than 55k............but, I am playing devils advocate.

Isn't that the case with any GM car from that era. It'll always look like it's been through 255,000 miles when it has 55,000 miles?

Well they do say that you measure Corvette interiors in dog years.....

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

B

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

My Son was little skeptical about that story but the salesman seemed to be a pretty straight shooter about everything else so he thought that since this was possible he'd believe it.

In any case, he got it for what appears to be a good price so he is still happy about buying it.

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

Take a zero off that milage and I'm in.

If he takes a zero off the mileage, he will probably add a zero to the price.

jmonroe

I can always borrow my niece's 2001 which I got her for $1000. 89k miles so i won't have to lop off any zeros.

oldfarmer50

houdini1 said:

henryn said:

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

I have heard on this forum the reason not to buy a Hyundai is because of the depreciation...but it looks like Hyundai didn't make the list.




Same with the Dodge Dart. When my in-laws tried to lease one they were told the residual after 36 months was 38%. First year depreciation must be close to 40%.

One that got my interest was the Nissan Maxima. I thought that as a high end model it wouldn't drop that much. I always liked the looks of them but other than Mitsus I was never a fan of Japanese cars. Now I'll have to rethink.

This one caught my eye.

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5828527845.html



The only problem are the Manhiem auction stickers on the window which marks the seller as a curbstoner.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

houdini1 said:

henryn said:

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

I have heard on this forum the reason not to buy a Hyundai is because of the depreciation...but it looks like Hyundai didn't make the list.

Same with the Dodge Dart. When my in-laws tried to lease one they were told the residual after 36 months was 38%. First year depreciation must be close to 40%.

One that got my interest was the Nissan Maxima. I thought that as a high end model it wouldn't drop that much. I always liked the looks of them but other than Mitsus I was never a fan of Japanese cars. Now I'll have to rethink.

This one caught my eye.

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5828527845.html



The only problem are the Manhiem auction stickers on the window which marks the seller as a curbstoner.

Beautiful looking, and it looks mint - I really like the instrument panel. One thing I always found, 80k miles seems to be the time when a lot of things have to be done. Once those things are done, you are good for many more miles. I wonder if any of those things have been done....tires, tune up, exhaust problems, etc etc.

snakeweasel

henryn said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

stever said:

Go south and buy a Toyota from Earl Steward. He "exposes" what's behind dealer fees.

Short answer = extra profit.

Good article. I liked this part;

The dealers get around advertisements very easily by including a “number” in the fine print. This number is their stock number that designates one specific car. When you respond to the ad, this car is no longer available (sales people are usually not paid a commission for selling the “ad car). The advertisement might say “many more identical cars are available.” It’s true that identical cars are available for sale, but they are not available for sale at the sale price because they are not the advertised stock number car. If you buy one of those “exact same cars” you will pay from $700 to $2,000 more.

That advertised car has a low price because that one car is sold without a doc fee.

I believe that I told this story here a long time ago. I had a friend who went to a Ford dealer looking for a Ford Focus or a Fusion or some type of sedan, I forget which one. He wanted a bare bones one, a stripper with a manual transmission. Well he gets to a Ford dealership midweek and it just so happens that when he is there they are taking delivery of just the car he wants. It's the car that would be featured on their weekend screamer ad at a low, low price. He bought the car right there and then.

The car wasn't on the dealers lot for more than 10 minutes before he test drove it and bought it. So their really inexpensive car in their ad was sold two days before the ad went out.

Which is okay, but if a complaint is made to the state attorney general's office, they have to be able to produce paperwork showing that they had the car (exact stock number quoted in the ad), and that they sold it for the advertised price after the ad ran. Which makes me wonder if the ad had already ran when your friend purchased the car?

Actually all they would have to prove is that they had the car available for sale regardless of the price they sold it for or when they sold it. Even without that it would be hard for the AG's office to do anything.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

JMonroe, Great story and well told....even if you did cheat with notes

You taught your son well, you should be proud. He negotiated very nicely, and everyone treated each other with respect and courtesy. It sounds like a terrific deal, but does a Fusion get up to $38000?

I am glad he took it at $21,650, it would be a shame to lose it for $350, less than $100 a year probably.

I'm pretty sure a fully equipped top of the line Fusion can be north of $40K.

snakeweasel

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

B

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

OK, here is the follow up on Son #2's 2014 Fusion purchase about 2 weeks ago.

As I said before my Son went out of state to the Akron Ohio area to get his new (used car).

It is a 2014 CPO Fusion Titanium with 6200 miles on it, when he picked it up, and it was EXACTLY what he was looking for right down to the H-Spoke 19 inch rims that he wanted. The exterior is burgundy and the interior is light grey. He's pretty sure the car has all the options that Ford offered on that car in 2014, although all of the options were not what he had to have. He was insistent about the exterior color though. He said no one in the Pittsburgh area had that car so off to Ohio he went.

He has a 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it which he bought as his commute car in 2012 with about 100K miles on it that he wanted to get rid of before it started to have too many problems. He just went through having a catalytic converter put on it which wasn't cheap. That is another story altogether.

He had been looking for the Fusion he wanted for about a month and couldn't find what he wanted so he kept looking on and off. Just as his Sentra was acting up because of the catalytic converter problem he got a lot more serious. When he went on line this time the first car shown was a new listing at a dealer in the Akron area. He was shocked that it only had 6200 miles on it but the Carfax showed it was a clean no wrecked car. He called the dealer and spoke to a very nice laid back salesman.

Here are the details on the 2014 and they are pretty accurate because I took my usual notes:

Son #2: I see the listing for the burgundy CPO 2014 Fusion. I'd like some more info. I'm calling from the Pittsburgh area so I can't just stop by.

Salesman: We still have it and it is a very clean car. I'm not trying to be pushy here, but to be honest, I don't think we will have it very long.

Son #2: Just curios but how does it only have 6200 miles on it?

Salesman: That's a fair question and if I were buying I'd ask the same thing. Here's the story; a women in her mid 50's with a medical condition leased it from us in 2014 and she liked it so she came in to buy out her lease. I showed her that for just a few more dollars a month she could lease a new 2017 Fusion Titanium optioned out the same as the 2014 and she would have the full three year warranty on it. She agreed so that is how we got it.

Son #2: So it is a CPO and because of that you have the additional warranty as you show in the add.

Salesman: Correct, all of our CPO's have that.

Son #2: I like everything so far but the price.

Salesman: You don't think $22,000 for that car is fair? The MSRP, and I have the original window sticker, is a little over $38,000. Don't you think you are being a little unfair about this?

Son #2: I didn't give you a price yet so how do you know I am being unfair?

Salesman: Well, anything less than $22K is unfair but go ahead and tell me what you want to pay for it.

Son #2: $21,400

Salesman: That's what I said, unfair ! If you are going to hold to that number I can tell you right now that we can't do business.

Son #2: Now you can tell me what your price is.

Salesman: OK, I'll talk to my SM but I'll tell you right now he will NOT accept $21,400.

Son #2: OK, talk to him and get back to me.

My Son knew they had a fair price but since this is the car biz he decided to negotiate just like he has always done. He figured he'd have to pay the full $22K but felt it was worth a shot. The salesman called him back about a half hour later.

Salesman: Well as I said your $21,400 is out. But here is what we can do. If you give us a deposit and agree to take it off our lot by Thursday (9-29-16) we will sell it at $21,650, end of discussion !

Son #2: OK, as long as I like it after I test drive it. Put all of this in an email and I'll see you on Thursday.

Salesman: Of course, no problem. Give me some info so I can start to get you approved for financing so you won't have wait for that when you get here.

Son #2: Don't worry about that. I have been pre-approved through my credit union.

Salesman: I'm pretty sure that if you have good credit, and from talking with you it sounds like you have, I can get you Fords special CPO financing at 1.9% but that offer won't last too long. Let me get this started for you now so I can get that rate locked in for you.

Son #2: Great, that beats my credit union rate of 3.2%. How are you able to do this?

Salesman: Every so often Ford does this, and believe it or not, the CPO rate is actually better than the new car loan rate of 2.9%. You won't get a better deal than this anywhere.

So there is the story, he got it for $21,650 and at the 1.9% rate which he was not expecting.

I rode in it yesterday but only on the local roads, not more than 45 MPH, but it rides very nice. It even has a slight new car smell too. He assured me the ecoboost engine is not a slouch and I can find that out for myself when he has more time to show it off.

jmonroe

Wow, looks like the kid inherited the old man's car mojo. Under $22k for a $38k+ car is a great buy. Did he really believe the little old lady with a medical condition story? If she really existed she's a sucker for leasing and only putting 6200 miles on it in almost 3 years.

My Son was little skeptical about that story but the salesman seemed to be a pretty straight shooter about everything else so he thought that since this was possible he'd believe it.

In any case, he got it for what appears to be a good price so he is still happy about buying it.

I'm glad you popped in on this. Are you interested in his 2004 Sentra with about 150K miles on it? It has a new catalytic converter with attached exhaust manifold, new brakes pads all the way around, a transmission flush, oil change and it just passed the PA state inspection.

I don't know what he is asking for it but I can find out.

jmonroe

Take a zero off that milage and I'm in.

If he takes a zero off the mileage, he will probably add a zero to the price.

jmonroe

Well where would he add the zero?

I work in Payroll and people all the time are asking for additional zeros added onto their checks. We say "Sure, we'll add them in front of all the other numbers".

snakeweasel

henryn said:

Here's an interesting read over on cars.com:

https://cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/?aff=marketaw&EMC=marketaw

ISeeCars analyzed over 14 million new and used cars sold for the study and found "12 models had price drops between 31.2 percent and 34.6 percent, which are at least 1.5 times greater than the overall average, and would be better values when purchased lightly used rather than brand new," researchers reported.
The study showed that buying one of these dozen models one model year later with average miles would save shoppers between $6,000 and $20,000 - and still boast the latest safety features and favorable crashworthiness scores.
The 12 vehicles iSeeCars deemed a better value used than new, followed by the average percentage price reduction and dollar-amount savings, are:
12. Buick Regal, 31 percent, $11,525
11. Chrysler 300, 32 percent , $13,351
10. Cadillac ATS, 32 percent , $6,099
9. Fiat 500, 32 percent , $11,106
8. Jaguar XF, 32 percent , $19,966
7. Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid, 34 percent , $14,177
6. Nissan Maxima, 34 percent , $12,469
5. Mercedes-Benz C250, 34 percent , $15,247
4. Kia Cadenza, 34 percent , $12,940
3. Volvo S60, 34 percent , $14,204
2. Lincoln MKS, 35 percent , $16,039
1. Fiat 500L, 35 percent , $8,096

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/study-buy-these-12-cars-used-not-new-1420690411904/#QE4dhhdmlofbQbLL.99

I always wonder if they base these figures off of sticker price or actual price sold as new. I'm pretty sure many of those cars could be bought new at 10-15% or more off of MSRP.

stickguy

that is all off of MSRP.

oldfarmer50

One more thought on that list.

It says that both the Chrysler 300 and the Caddy ATS depriciate 34% but that represents $13,000 with the 300 and only $6,000 on the ATS. Is the Chrysler really twice as expensive?

Also, where would you find a one year old version of any car on the list? Demo? Repo?

fezo

Back in again. Been distracted by election shenanigans. Anyone who wants to do a protest vote can write me in. [non-permissible content removed]

That's an interesting list of year old giant discounts. I'd have to see what a modern Maxima is like. Loved the ones I had. Of course I'm so little likely to buy a car in close to two years that I don't even look at Chronic Car Buyers theses days. Obviously I've been out of a lot of things.

Actually feeling pretty good other than a couple of self inflicted injuries. Back in barefoot weather I was out setting up charcoal for the grill. Use of those chimneys to get them going white hot and pour them into the grill. I hear a little one bounce on the deck. I swear I hear it bounce forward. I don't see it so I take half a step back. You can get a second degree burn in a tenth of a second if you do it right. All healed up now. Did a real number ripping the nail on my right thumb dealing with a dead branch that wasn't dead yet. Had a gig coming up and did a pretty amazing repair with a little fiberglass nail tape and glue. Looks weird but works fine. So I'm doing fine with medication. Feeling better that I have in a couple of decades. Not working probably helps though most of the five years of that have been either being sick as a dog or recovering. Only now would I consider doing regular work.

What have I missed on the health front amongst our gang?

I;ve officially put more miles on the 5 than the original owner. Putting Michelin Premiers on it have made it an entirely different, much more enjoyable vehicle. On the Miata I did Driver's thing. Bought it with just under 82K about 15 months ago, Changed all fluids and rubber and put drilled disc and ceramic pads on it. Heap big fun. Might have to let it go when the "twins" hit 17 in 2 years. Insurance cost is the issue. The car itself I paid cash and expect to not have to do anything on it in that time. Thinking about an early one at that time that I could register as a classic car just for the insurance.

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

One more thought on that list. It says that both the Chrysler 300 and the Caddy ATS depriciate 34% but that represents $13,000 with the 300 and only $6,000 on the ATS. Is the Chrysler really twice as expensive? Also, where would you find a one year old version of any car on the list? Demo? Repo?

Silly amount of 1-yr-old cars out there. Happens for any number of reasons, including just getting bored with it or having your car needs change.

bwia

I never paid much attention to the Honda Accord before but yesterday, in underground parking lot, I could not help but notice a gorgeous glistening black sedan with LED lights and all. Upon closer inspection it turned out to be an Accord. Don't know what model year it was but it looked brand new.

I am sure these cars have been on the road for a while but this one appeared smaller and less bloated than the Accords of late. It even looks like the previous generation Azera (perhaps jmonroe can confirm that) and the size seems just right. Kudos to Honda, in this climate of SUVs and CUVs I hope they are selling a lot of these Accords.

driver100

True story....a lady at pickleball told us about this accident, just to show how easy it can happen;

An elderly couple were driving (unfortunately) in the left land, on I-75 in Florida,
A young guy got road rage and drove on their back bumper.
The elderly driver realized he was in the left lane so moved over into the right lane.
The young guy sped passed the elderly couple, then swerved quickly in front of them and suddenly braked.
The elderly people stopped quickly, but a big truck behind them couldn't stop.
The truck plowed into the car, killing the elderly man, left the woman injured.

Two innocent people, lives are shattered in minutes.

bwia

driver100 said:

True story....a lady at pickleball told us about this accident, just to show how easy it can happen;

An elderly couple were driving (unfortunately) in the left land, on I-75 in Florida,
A young guy got road rage and drove on their back bumper.
The elderly driver realized he was in the left lane so moved over into the right lane.
The young guy sped passed the elderly couple, then swerved quickly in front of them and suddenly braked.
The elderly people stopped quickly, but a big truck behind them couldn't stop.
The truck plowed into the car, killing the elderly man, left the woman injured.

Two innocent people, lives are shattered in minutes.

It almost happened to me yesterday too. As I was going through a complicated intersection the light turned amber. I sped up to clear the intersection but behind me was a mad woman driving a Porsche Cayenne. Nothing wrong with that except the road was narrowed from two to one lane.

Nonetheless, she throttled over the curb to squeeze in front of me completely cutting me off. She zigzagged to the right and then to left lane again all while blasting her horn. This is a busy section of the city with heavy pedestrian, bicycle, and auto traffic so there is no opportunity for speeding. Frankly, I had never experienced such a display of road rage before. She should be locked up.

Mr_Shiftright

I wonder sometimes if this intense level of road rage is a typical American thing. Having driven recently in some intensely traffic-packed cities, like Naples and Palermo, I didn't notice one instance of this aside from a little short horn-honking.

Well...perhaps some untranslatable mutterings in Italian.....

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

I wonder sometimes if this intense level of road rage is a typical American thing. Having driven recently in some intensely traffic-packed cities, like Naples and Palermo, I didn't notice one instance of this aside from a little short horn-honking.

Well...perhaps some untranslatable mutterings in Italian.....

They probably called your mother a goat, as they do, but it's not a reason to try to kill each other...

roadburner

The agony and the ecstacy- two lease turn-ins:

1. 2013 3 Series 3yr/30k mile lease; mileage at turn-in? 57,500! Plus, the car had new tires but NOT run-flats- which means the lessee got dinged an additional $1200. She "offered" to buy/lease another BMW if the mileage overage and tire costs were waived. Yeah, right...
2. 2013 3 Series 3yr/30k mile lease: mileage at turn-in? 4,700. That's right- less than 5,000 miles. He probably would have saved money by just renting a BMW when he wanted to drive one...

Mr_Shiftright

dino001 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I wonder sometimes if this intense level of road rage is a typical American thing. Having driven recently in some intensely traffic-packed cities, like Naples and Palermo, I didn't notice one instance of this aside from a little short horn-honking.

Well...perhaps some untranslatable mutterings in Italian.....

They probably called your mother a goat, as they do, but it's not a reason to try to kill each other...

My mother was born in Sicily---they'd best be careful calling her a goat.....I'm sure she knew all the curses...I went to her birth place recently. Didn't see anyone who looked like me, though.

imidazol97

Mr_Shiftright said:

My mother was born in Sicily---they'd best be careful calling her a goat.....I'm sure she knew all the curses...I went to her birth place recently. Didn't see anyone who looked like me, though.

Sounds like Sophia on "Golden Girls."