Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

suydam

Too true. Although at my last purchase I told the GM salesperson that I didn't want any of that stuff, and thankfully the F&I guy dialed way back -- but not entirely.

henryn

qbrozen said:

suydam said:

If they've never been titled they are technically new. Never heard that for 2 yr old vehicles. I just assumed it was a typo.

I think everyone is saying the same thing. It is technically new and never titled, but it needs to be valued like a used car with ultra low miles because at trade time, it matters not that you bought it new, only how old it is. 

One minor exception on that point. If you bought it as a 2 year old left over, when you went to sell or trade it would be a "1 owner". I'm not really sure how much "1 owner" adds to the value, maybe none, but they do like to brag about it.

berri

I don't think the savings on a left over are worth it unless you are going to keep the vehicle for a pretty long time.

henryn

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KtnWtajUVwcEtabVZlaDhTMW8/view?pref=2&pli=1

Very amusing, and very well done.

suydam

berri said:

I don't think the savings on a left over are worth it unless you are going to keep the vehicle for a pretty long time.

And we do so it works well for us.

fintail

Panamera base? Turbo or nothing!

I remember that "AA" ad, pretty well detailed (although the crash test car is the prior generation). The Germans have to be itching to get their Tesla competitors on the market.

fintail

I remember when I was a student back around 1998-99, I knew an older student (probably no older than I am now, makes me feel old) who had a Mystique V6 5-speed. We were in a class together, and lived close by, I remember I rode in it once when he spotted me and offered a ride. It seemed really nice to me. But the mouse fur 4cyl fleet model probably didn't generate similar feelings.

The same thing might explain why I don't hate Tempos - we had one in the family for many years when I was growing up, and it seemed like a nice car - as it was a GLX with nearly every option. It also aged better than most, not getting quirky til past 120K miles (and even then it never had a failure worse than an alternator, I think) - a milestone many Tempos likely never reached. I suspect someone with a vinyl interior hubcap base model might not have as fond of memories.

driver100 said:

I agree completely with your synopsis of the Ford Contour. The reviews were good for other Fords when they came out too, the Fairmount, the 2nd generation Taurus (the one with everything round including the porthole rear window), even the early Tempo. I always had the impression the review people wanted to give positive reviews for the hometown products, and possibly their advertisers.

I will say, I was a passenger in a new Contour when they first came out and I found it nicely finished inside...but it was a top of the line model. But base Fords could be pretty minimal and austere.

jmonroe

henryn said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KtnWtajUVwcEtabVZlaDhTMW8/view?pref=2&pli=1

Very amusing, and very well done.

I'm surprised that it doesn't ask you if you are SURE you want to dump the batteries. It would have probably only taken another 6 batteries to power that option. That's German electricals for you.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

No human can go 52 mph. You wouldn't be able to breathe.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

A Porsche automatic? Maybe after I'm dead.

Or until your left knee goes bad.

Mr_Shiftright

Then I'll buy a Malibu, as driving will have lost its meaning.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

Then I'll buy a Malibu, as driving will have lost its meaning.

Here you go:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5902809574.html

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Then I'll buy a Malibu, as driving will have lost its meaning.

Here you go:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5902809574.html

My eyes!!!

I saw one of those just yesterday driving around here in that exact color. As always, I thought "what was GM thinking?" when I was reminded of how they looked. What a sorry, sorry design. No idea what GM styling thought they were doing. I remember seeing them stacked up like cordwood on dealer lots around here.

As an aside, I had one of them for a rental for a road trip one time and it drove very nicely, to the point where I remember being pleasantly surprised by how good it was on the road. But not only was the styling like a poke in the eye, the interior design wasn't anything great either.

fintail

I always called those the "fish" Malibus, as the headlight position and "face" of the car somehow reminds me of some kind of fish. I never agreed with the horizontal bar front end theme GM wanted to run with back then, and I see they are trying to stick with it. Tenacious.

I don't know what to say about the upholstery pattern. I think it might be trying to kind of be European, but funky patterns were more of a 90s thing there.

oldfarmer50 said:

Here you go:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5902809574.html

ab348

fintail said:

I don't know what to say about the upholstery pattern. I think it might be trying to kind of be European, but funky patterns were more of a 90s thing there.

My memory may be playing tricks on me, but I seem to remember reading that this was the first effort by a lady who was appointed as GM's new head of interior design or some such thing in 2003 or thereabouts. I seem to recall that they got her from Renault. That would tie in to your theory because that upholstery pattern looks like something you might see in a French car.

The one in that ad is actually better than some of the others I remember seeing on dealer lots here, which had that patterned cloth not only on the seating surfaces, but also on the backs of the front seats so that the people in the rear seat would have to look at it too. It really looked like an odd thing to do, at least to my eye.

stickguy

speaking of Contours, I actually had 2. Well, the first was a mystique. A 1995 (1st year) LS (top line) that I bought in 1998. V6, 5 speed, leather, ABS, moonroof. Loaded for the day. Quite a fun car actually. Excellent handling, quick, nice interior, good seats. Really did feel European, and upscale.

the difference between that and a decontented, strippo Contour 4 cyl AT, felt like an entirely different car.

snakeweasel

fordfool said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Cool dad or child abuse. You decide.

http://www.powernationtv.com/post/using-doorknobs-to-pull-teeth-is-the-old-method-now

I'm calling shenanigans. Someone wants to go viral on You Tube and is faking a video.

Great, I'll get my broom.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

berri said:

If you move to Florida Stick, you'll be surprised how fast that garage becomes a basement - sunbelt living

I don't know how our place in Florida compares to the places you guys have, but here are some things to consider as you get closer to your golden years.

We live in a community of 76 homes, most are one story-some have lofts. Most have 1 1/2 car garages-half for the golf cart (we are not ready for that yet), some are 2 bdrm, some 3. Prices are up about 12% this year, probably up about 25 to 30% since the low point around 2010. Florida is booming, tourists are highest ever and construction everywhere. Traffic is growing by leaps and bounds...hard to get around.

Half the people in our community are here all year. As an example, our neighbors have a 3 bedroom home, they enclosed the lanai to have a family room with lots of glass, we have woods on one side, a golf course on the other. They could probably sell their home for about $175k. Taxes for them, homesteaders is about $1000 a year, for visitors like us, about $2100 a year. Electricity is about $60 a month. The grounds here are beautiful, lots of green including all kinds of palm trees. There is a clubhouse and a pool, kept at 86F.

It is beautiful and offers a fantastic way of life. It can get hot in July to September, but, people find a way to cope.

Not for everyone but many people start coming down for the winter, then they decide they may as well just live here.

Remember too, as you get older, you don't need as much room and as much stuff,

A couple of thoughts;

1.) when I retire I would be more than happy to be in a retirement community having one car, one golf cart to get around the community, a couple of bicycles and either a scooter or a motorcycle to go further than I could with the golf cart in case the wife uses the car.

2.) As for the summer heat the greatest coping method I can think of is the knowledge that 6 months later I wont be shoveling snow. Actually we went down to Orlando last August and the truth be told it was just as hot and humid here in Chicago as it was in Orlando when we got there.

explorerx4

The engine in that Malibu almost looks like it is backwards with the alternator in the back and the intake runner going across the front to the other side of the engine.

stickguy

Snake, that is what I tell my wife when I mention moving south to NC, and she complains it will be hot/humid. It will be hot and humid in Philly area too, so probably won't even notice the difference!

fintail

People from the PNW just have to reverse their complaints if they relocate to the south - they hate the summers and love the winters.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Then I'll buy a Malibu, as driving will have lost its meaning.

Here you go:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5902809574.html

My eyes!!!

I saw one of those just yesterday driving around here in that exact color. As always, I thought "what was GM thinking?" when I was reminded of how they looked. What a sorry, sorry design. No idea what GM styling thought they were doing. I remember seeing them stacked up like cordwood on dealer lots around here.

As an aside, I had one of them for a rental for a road trip one time and it drove very nicely, to the point where I remember being pleasantly surprised by how good it was on the road. But not only was the styling like a poke in the eye, the interior design wasn't anything great either.

Yeah they were ugly alright but I think that Florida one was a newer design on GM's Epsilon platform that they also use for Saab and the G6. Much better than the Malibu Classic which had the habit of opening up gaping rust hole near the fuel door.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you Contour snobs how about these low mile gems.

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5903680964.html

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5903643938.html

Driver100s twin brother?

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/chl/cto/5880392332.html

That's a 2010 Genesis for $16900....and 21k miles. Not bad, but you could probably get the real thing, a C Class, 328, or A4 for about the same price from a private seller - and hope it wasn't in a flood!

The Porche for $50k, well, best to forget that one unless you want to be in the dog house for the rest of your life.

2016 Jetta lease for $199 a month. OK if you need a Jetta for that time period, but the guy got the car while it was brand new for the same price $199 a month. You are just carrying on a lease someone else wants to get out of.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Then I'll buy a Malibu, as driving will have lost its meaning.

Here you go:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5902809574.html

$5000 for a 2004 with 32k miles. Our 2013 Passat was a much better buy at $11200 with 6800 miles, and it was a stick!

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

If you move to Florida Stick, you'll be surprised how fast that garage becomes a basement - sunbelt living

I don't know how our place in Florida compares to the places you guys have, but here are some things to consider as you get closer to your golden years.

We live in a community of 76 homes, most are one story-some have lofts. Most have 1 1/2 car garages-half for the golf cart (we are not ready for that yet), some are 2 bdrm, some 3. Prices are up about 12% this year, probably up about 25 to 30% since the low point around 2010. Florida is booming, tourists are highest ever and construction everywhere. Traffic is growing by leaps and bounds...hard to get around.

Half the people in our community are here all year. As an example, our neighbors have a 3 bedroom home, they enclosed the lanai to have a family room with lots of glass, we have woods on one side, a golf course on the other. They could probably sell their home for about $175k. Taxes for them, homesteaders is about $1000 a year, for visitors like us, about $2100 a year. Electricity is about $60 a month. The grounds here are beautiful, lots of green including all kinds of palm trees. There is a clubhouse and a pool, kept at 86F.

It is beautiful and offers a fantastic way of life. It can get hot in July to September, but, people find a way to cope.

Not for everyone but many people start coming down for the winter, then they decide they may as well just live here.

Remember too, as you get older, you don't need as much room and as much stuff,

A couple of thoughts;

1.) when I retire I would be more than happy to be in a retirement community having one car, one golf cart to get around the community, a couple of bicycles and either a scooter or a motorcycle to go further than I could with the golf cart in case the wife uses the car.

2.) As for the summer heat the greatest coping method I can think of is the knowledge that 6 months later I wont be shoveling snow. Actually we went down to Orlando last August and the truth be told it was just as hot and humid here in Chicago as it was in Orlando when we got there.

And, when it gets too hot you can stay in the air conditioning, or you can walk over to the pool. Maybe my wife would bring me Pina Coladas and I could pretend I am a t a resort

driver100

stickguy said:

Snake, that is what I tell my wife when I mention moving south to NC, and she complains it will be hot/humid. It will be hot and humid in Philly area too, so probably won't even notice the difference!

NC is where the Quarterbacks end up.

They are snowbirds who move to Florida, find it too hot and humid, so end up going 25% of the way back...and stay in NC.

qbrozen

driver100 said:

That's a 2010 Genesis for $16900....and 21k miles. Not bad, but you could probably get the real thing, a C Class, 328, or A4 for about the same price from a private seller - and hope it wasn't in a flood!

But all those German competitors are much smaller than the Genesis. Gotta at least step up to the E, 5-series, and A6 to compete.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Then I'll buy a Malibu, as driving will have lost its meaning.

Here you go:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5902809574.html

$5000 for a 2004 with 32k miles. Our 2013 Passat was a much better buy at $11200 with 6800 miles, and it was a stick!

Well that one was for Shifty when he gets to where life has no meaning.

My original point was that there are lots of low milage cars in the Fort Myers area. I just picked some random ones.

Here's one I would like if I ever move to Florida. He's dropped it $2k since first listing but Edmunds say $8200 is all the money.

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/5860126818.html

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Then I'll buy a Malibu, as driving will have lost its meaning.

Here you go:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/ctd/5902809574.html

$5000 for a 2004 with 32k miles. Our 2013 Passat was a much better buy at $11200 with 6800 miles, and it was a stick!

Well that one was for Shifty when he gets to where life has no meaning.

My original point was that there are lots of low milage cars in the Fort Myers area. I just picked some random ones.

Here's one I would like if I ever move to Florida. He's dropped it $2k since first listing but Edmunds say $8200 is all the money.

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/5860126818.html

Estate sales can be a good way to get a car. Son probably has a Mustang and wants to dump the big Ford. I wonder if a real seller would say " Check prices on line and with this mileage and if you could find one you should run and buy it".

Not too sure what this option is "MirrorPower Steering"

The story is good though, I am just overly suspicious these days.

fintail

My brother and sister got their first cars out of estates, via my dad, who kept an eye on such things. Dodge Rampage (my sister still misses it) and a K-Car, hey, it was the 90s! When it came time to sell, they both got what they paid for them, as the original price paid was a fair deal.

The big Panther might be a good deal, but I would want an inspection of any Florida car - watch out for floods and bath salts

Weren't those early Genesis the ones where people complained about the suspension tuning? Price seems a little dear, probably spend not a lot more, and get a newer one, or a German competitor that might cost more to run but might be better to drive.

stickguy

fintail said:

People from the PNW just have to reverse their complaints if they relocate to the south - they hate the summers and love the winters.

so, the answer is, have a house down south for the winter, and one in the PNW to winter in?

That is a bit far. But if I had the money, I could sell the wife on a house at the shore (maybe Charleston) and one up in Saratoga to split time between.

stickguy

that Genesis looks nice, but someone forgot to put the moonroof in. probably why it is on the cheaper side.

roadburner

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

sda said:

roadburner said:

Well, I may have some sales stories; the GM comes up to me and says, "This ois your month- you are going to sell at least five cars!" I thought that he was joking, but we had a couple of salespeople retire and we are selling an average of 2 cars per day- so the GM and NCM want me to cover the floor when the other salespeople are with customers.
I guess this is a case of no good deed goes unpunished- since I have taken several ups, performed what BMW calls the "Needs Assessment," taken the customer(s) on a test drive, and then turned them over to a salesperson.
At least work isn't boring.

For the sales that you make are you paid a commission? That would perk me up!

Yes.

Sounds like they are grooming you to be their new cracker Jack salesman that they send all the enthusiasts to. That's what I'd do if I saw how much product knowledge you have as well as all that neat stuff like where to race, where to get performance training etc.

You'll have all the gear heads eating out of your hand as you suggest that the $3,000 mop & glo package will help their cars slip through the air faster.

THE GM has been pushing me to move to sales since my second week at the dealer; I still like my original job, but this is a good opportunity to find out if I have the ability to sell. As for mop & glo, we don't push that stuff- any additional warranties and such are offered by our F&I guys.

That is the way the dealerships do it these days, the F&I guys specialize at scamming you into buying the extras. That way you can keep a better relationship with your salesperson....and not be afraid of him. Like I said, we offered to bring in a certified check for $15000 for the C 250, and they said just bring in a blank one. We thought it was because they trusted us...no, it was so they could try to sell us $8000 worth of add-ons...and come out the door signing away on just one check.

The only items our F&I guys push are warranties and such offered by BMW- extended maintenance, wheel/tire, etc.

fintail

Yep. There are snowbirds in this area too, even though most areas get little snow. My paternal grandparents had their normal house here, and a winter place in Arizona. Summer here is pretty perfect, can't imagine it being much better in many other places, not too humid or hot, little rain.

stickguy said:

so, the answer is, have a house down south for the winter, and one in the PNW to winter in?

That is a bit far. But if I had the money, I could sell the wife on a house at the shore (maybe Charleston) and one up in Saratoga to split time between.

28firefighter

Speaking of snow @fintail, we are supposed to see some this week. Really looking forward to the shenanigans.

stickguy

you learn quickly down south, in areas that normally don't get snow, that when you do, stay in the house. do not go anywhere near the roads. the locals have no clue how to behave.

berri

No kidding - its punch the accelerator and jam on the brakes

28firefighter

stickguy said:

you learn quickly down south, in areas that normally don't get snow, that when you do, stay in the house. do not go anywhere near the roads. the locals have no clue how to behave.

The last time it snowed even a little bit, the roads were empty. It was fairly easy driving, but the roads were not treated at all. That primarily affects the hilly streets downtown and the bridges.

stever

What do they call those North Carolinians who left Florida? Rebounders? Everyone drove like idiots in Anchorage when the first flakes fell. It was like no one had ever seen snow before.

Most of our snowbirds are MidWesterners, with a large contingent from Minneapolis. The rest are from back East it seems.

stickguy

quarterbacks or halfbacks, depending i guess on where they started from!

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

you learn quickly down south, in areas that normally don't get snow, that when you do, stay in the house. do not go anywhere near the roads. the locals have no clue how to behave.

I wonder how much that has to do with use of summer tires down there and how they turn to grease in cold weather.

jmonroe

stickguy said:

you learn quickly down south, in areas that normally don't get snow, that when you do, stay in the house. do not go anywhere near the roads. the locals have no clue how to behave.

I told this story before:

On time when we lived in SC, Mrs. j was at the supermarket and all of a sudden she realized the place was jammed. She asked a nearby woman shopper what was going on (I think she was afraid she missed a sale). Anyway, the woman said, "lady, didn't you look outside, it's snowing"!! Mrs. j does not like snow when she has the car out, not even a little bit, so she dashed to the front of the store, and yeah, there were a few snow flakes but non sticking to the parking lot and the grass areas were barely covered. She laughs to herself and takes her sweet time shopping to let the frantic shoppers clear out before she heads to the checkout line. She said see mozzied around for about an hour to avoid the long checkout lines.

When I got home from work I took a picture of the snow on my lawn and was sure to get a couple showing my small palm bush covered with snow to show the northerners when I went home for a visit sometime later. The street was only wet. That night watching the local news from Augusta GA, which is about 12 miles away. The temperature had dropped in August, therefore, there was some icing on the roads and things were not so good. I'm not kidding, I don't think there were too many telephone poles that weren't being supported by a pickup to keep them from falling over (a couple poles even had a car helping out). I never saw so many pickups on a 45 degree angle in my life. No serious injuries just a lot of mangled metal.

I worked with a local guy whose BIL owned a body shop and my fellow worker said his BIL referred to snowfalls down there as "a business boomer". I know it's like that anywhere it snows but down there it's unbelievable until you see it.

FWIW, I still have that picture of my poor little palm bush all covered with snow.

jmonroe

sb55

stickguy said:

quarterbacks or halfbacks, depending i guess on where they started from!

My wife and I are looking in the Asheville/Brevard NC area for a snowbird winter house. Living on Lake Champlain is pretty sweet most of the year and NC mountains will be mild compared to here in January and February. Since we live 20 miles from the Canadian border, we would be "third-backers" if we considered Florida. My 84 yo father lives there and bitches about it all the time, even though he has stuck it out for 20 years.

driver100

stickguy said:

fintail said:

People from the PNW just have to reverse their complaints if they relocate to the south - they hate the summers and love the winters.

so, the answer is, have a house down south for the winter, and one in the PNW to winter in?

That is a bit far. But if I had the money, I could sell the wife on a house at the shore (maybe Charleston) and one up in Saratoga to split time between.

My ideal would be Oct to end of April...FL, and have a condo in Maine or NH May to Sept, give or take a few days. We are limited to 6 months in the US, so we spend 5 months in Florida, and keep 30 days in reserve for day trips and other trips into the US.

**The 6 month limit is imposed by US government so Canadians don't start living in the US semi permanently. Cdn Snowbirds is trying to get the 6 months changed to 7 months, but things got put on hold because of the election (not to get political).

driver100

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

sda said:

roadburner said:

Well, I may have some sales stories; the GM comes up to me and says, "This ois your month- you are going to sell at least five cars!" I thought that he was joking, but we had a couple of salespeople retire and we are selling an average of 2 cars per day- so the GM and NCM want me to cover the floor when the other salespeople are with customers.
I guess this is a case of no good deed goes unpunished- since I have taken several ups, performed what BMW calls the "Needs Assessment," taken the customer(s) on a test drive, and then turned them over to a salesperson.
At least work isn't boring.

For the sales that you make are you paid a commission? That would perk me up!

Yes.

Sounds like they are grooming you to be their new cracker Jack salesman that they send all the enthusiasts to. That's what I'd do if I saw how much product knowledge you have as well as all that neat stuff like where to race, where to get performance training etc.

You'll have all the gear heads eating out of your hand as you suggest that the $3,000 mop & glo package will help their cars slip through the air faster.

THE GM has been pushing me to move to sales since my second week at the dealer; I still like my original job, but this is a good opportunity to find out if I have the ability to sell. As for mop & glo, we don't push that stuff- any additional warranties and such are offered by our F&I guys.

That is the way the dealerships do it these days, the F&I guys specialize at scamming you into buying the extras. That way you can keep a better relationship with your salesperson....and not be afraid of him. Like I said, we offered to bring in a certified check for $15000 for the C 250, and they said just bring in a blank one. We thought it was because they trusted us...no, it was so they could try to sell us $8000 worth of add-ons...and come out the door signing away on just one check.

The only items our F&I guys push are warranties and such offered by BMW- extended maintenance, wheel/tire, etc.

They know BMW buyers are fairly sophisticated about mop n glo etc...it would be an insult. The last BMW I had they did try to sell tire warranty (RFTs), wheel warranty, paint chip warranty.....same with Mercedes dealer. Both backed off immediately when they saw I wasn't buying it. They probably do sell it to people who have the money, but buy the car for status rather than the driving experience.

qbrozen

driver100 said:

People from the PNW just have to reverse their complaints if they relocate to the south - they hate the summers and love the winters.

so, the answer is, have a house down south for the winter, and one in the PNW to winter in? That is a bit far. But if I had the money, I could sell the wife on a house at the shore (maybe Charleston) and one up in Saratoga to split time between.

My ideal would be Oct to end of April...FL, and have a condo in Maine or NH May to Sept, give or take a few days. We are limited to 6 months in the US, so we spend 5 months in Florida, and keep 30 days in reserve for day trips and other trips into the US. **The 6 month limit is imposed by US government so Canadians don't start living in the US semi permanently. Cdn Snowbirds is trying to get the 6 months changed to 7 months, but things got put on hold because of the election (not to get political).

Not to get political either, but just from a math perspective, if you spend more than half your time in one country, it seems to me you are a citizen of THAT country. So if Canadians want to spend 7 mos in the US, then they should become US ciitizens.

houdini1

Driver, from your perspective, what would be the pros and cons of becoming a U.S. citizen?

graphicguy

Those of us in the southern part of the midwest (like Kyfdx and me) really don't get enough snow to warrant a move further south. I know a few (very few) who go to FL over the winter. But, they don't stay for more than several weeks.

It happens, but rarely do we get several inches of snow at a time. There are years where we may only get a dusting or two. There will be a few days where it will dip down into the teens, maybe even lower, but not many.

Hell, up until two weeks ago, I was still wearing short sleeves outside.

The next 4 months will be our winter. But, we'll see more than a few days get into the 50s, maybe even the 60s around here.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

It happens, but rarely do we get several inches of snow at a time. There are years where we may only get a dusting or two. There will be a few days where it will dip down into the teens, maybe even lower, but not many.

For the lower Midwest, frequent storms is the prediction from Accuweather. In Dayton, we're a degree or 2 colder than the Metro Cincy area. So frequent storms may lead to a snowpack for us. But small storms I can like. The snow sublimates or melts in between. Not seeing prediction of extra cold even though we're now into a cooling period partly due to sun cycles.

I'm all set with a new Lennox heat pump. Bring on that refreshing cool air.



From Accuweather.com


http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/2016-2017-us-winter-forecast-northeast-above-normal-snow-freeze-hurt-citrus-south/60277878
In the linked article, there's a short video summary prediction for each area of the US, but I can't link the video itself.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

fintail said:

People from the PNW just have to reverse their complaints if they relocate to the south - they hate the summers and love the winters.

so, the answer is, have a house down south for the winter, and one in the PNW to winter in?

That is a bit far. But if I had the money, I could sell the wife on a house at the shore (maybe Charleston) and one up in Saratoga to split time between.

My ideal would be Oct to end of April...FL, and have a condo in Maine or NH May to Sept, give or take a few days. We are limited to 6 months in the US, so we spend 5 months in Florida, and keep 30 days in reserve for day trips and other trips into the US.

**The 6 month limit is imposed by US government so Canadians don't start living in the US semi permanently. Cdn Snowbirds is trying to get the 6 months changed to 7 months, but things got put on hold because of the election (not to get political).

Why don't you just walk across the border and call Uber for a ride? I hear it's all the rage these days.

Seriously, what would happen if you were here one day short of the limit and your car broke down or you got sick? If you went over would big brother swoop in and put the cuffs on?