Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

@jayrider said:

"Talking about salesmanship -- I've been getting recorded messages from someone with an Indian/Pakastani accent telling me I am about to be brought up on charges in Federal Court. If I call him back, he will help me out of this dire situation."

Next time he calls, tell him you are the father of the person he is trying to reach and inform him that he is too late - and that your son is in jail because he was found guilty in federal court last week.  Ask him if there is anything he can do to get your son out of jail?  

imidazol97

driver100 said:

sterlingdog said:

That's why I bought the 2014 F150. I was told by the dealer that Ford Tough won't be as tough with the new materials. While that could have been a sales pitch to sell a 2014, I was inclined to agree. BTW, my convertible that I traded for the Ruby Red truck was a bright blue. Both the blue and Ruby Red make pretty cars.

Richard

I just read a pretty detailed review about the 2015 F-150. As good as the 2014 F-150 is, the 2015 is even better, and the new aluminum makes it stronger.
There is no way Ford would mess with the 150 and make it inferior. Mileage is up substantially just because of the lower weight.

The review I just read said there were lots of features on the 2015 model to keep it ahead of the competitors. This new aluminum seems to be the way to go for the future, lighter but stronger.

Here's a fair and balanced report about the F150. There are many more from Fox's coverage.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2014/09/09/ford-aluminum-f-150-put-to-test/

sterlingdog

imidazol97 said:

sterlingdog said:

imidazol97 said:

I have a $20 air pump from Harbor Freight that plugs into auxiliary power on the car and pumps the tire back up. The last two times my low tire alarm went off on '03, I just pulled in, checked pressure to see which tire was low (couldn't tell by sidewall) and pumped her back up. It'd be nicer to have the individual tire pressure gauges like my Cobalt and Malibu have.

Does the air pump have a really long cord? I'm trying to visualize this from the dash all the way to the rear tire. Richard

This has a long cord that reaches from the cigarette lighter inside well past the rear wheel. The only downside is that the pump has to be started first and then I have to screw on the hose to the tire valve stem. It does not have enough ooomph (that's oooumph in Canadian ) to start up against the air pressure from the tire. But it's light weighing only a few pounds to carry in the trunk with jumper cables and my AAA card.

http://www.harborfreight.com/12v-100-psi-high-volume-air-compressor-61788.html

Great explanation and picture! Thanks.

Richard

roadburner

abacomike said:

@jayrider said:

"Talking about salesmanship -- I've been getting recorded messages from someone with an Indian/Pakastani accent telling me I am about to be brought up on charges in Federal Court. If I call him back, he will help me out of this dire situation."

Next time he calls, tell him you are the father of the person he is trying to reach and inform him that he is too late - and that your son is in jail because he was found guilty in federal court last week.  Ask him if there is anything he can do to get your son out of jail?  

I love this site: 419baiter.com
Individuals(with too much free time) prank e-mail scammers- stringing them on and sometimes even getting them to do ridiculous things. Here is a synopsis of one great prank:

Miss Julia Ngume is a Liberian who is now in a refugee camp in Senegal. She seems to want some kind of business/personal relationship. Wanda Willing attempts to find out more.

Wanda and Julia actually play relatively minor roles in this game as Reverends Stu Pidass and Seymore Buttz of Our Lady of Perpetual Flatulence Holy Church, enter into negotiations with Julia's church in Senegal for funding. Then Potty LaTrine falls in love with Vitus Iwunwa and commits some terrible acts to be with him. Pastor Martins Koma and Jennifer Stevens also play supporting roles.

Romance, murder, embezzlement, (phone) sex, an international man, this game has it all.

Too funny!

sterlingdog

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

sterlingdog said:

That's why I bought the 2014 F150. I was told by the dealer that Ford Tough won't be as tough with the new materials. While that could have been a sales pitch to sell a 2014, I was inclined to agree. BTW, my convertible that I traded for the Ruby Red truck was a bright blue. Both the blue and Ruby Red make pretty cars.

Richard

I just read a pretty detailed review about the 2015 F-150. As good as the 2014 F-150 is, the 2015 is even better, and the new aluminum makes it stronger.
There is no way Ford would mess with the 150 and make it inferior. Mileage is up substantially just because of the lower weight.

The review I just read said there were lots of features on the 2015 model to keep it ahead of the competitors. This new aluminum seems to be the way to go for the future, lighter but stronger.

Here's a fair and balanced report about the F150. There are many more from Fox's coverage.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2014/09/09/ford-aluminum-f-150-put-to-test/

Great video. Thanks for sharing. Edmunds has also done a review that I read this afternoon. Like the video, MPG will not be released until November. The article did say that a 5% to 20% improvement is expected. The article also mentioned suspension. It said that when the truck is loaded that the suspension is better and that you don't feel the roughness as much. The improved visibility that Driver mentioned was explained. The two windows behind the outside mirrors have been lowered at the slant level by two inches. Also, there is a little more room because the interior seating has been increased by one inch in width. The front seats are slightly shortened to give more leg room in the rear. Good gosh. You could put a bedroom in the back seat of my 2014. Don't know why they felt the need to do that. I didn't get a cover for the truck bed because, by the time that you fold up the rear seats, you have room for tons of luggage or small pieces of furniture. I really don't think that I will need a locked cover on our trips.

I will say that I don't care for the front grill on the 2015 as much as mine and the rear passenger window isn't as square as mine. Other than that, it's a pretty truck and the interior is very nice.

Richard

sterlingdog

abacomike said:

@jayrider said:

"Talking about salesmanship -- I've been getting recorded messages from someone with an Indian/Pakastani accent telling me I am about to be brought up on charges in Federal Court. If I call him back, he will help me out of this dire situation."

Next time he calls, tell him you are the father of the person he is trying to reach and inform him that he is too late - and that your son is in jail because he was found guilty in federal court last week.  Ask him if there is anything he can do to get your son out of jail?  

Or you could say, "Sorry, he was executed yesterday."

Richard

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

"...He just liked the way it represented the 60s, when cars were cars. It isn't softenned to be more European for world wide sales....like a Mustang. He said, this is good old American muscle car, made for America. I wondered what thet would be like...just getting a Challenger just for the pure enjoyment of having a "real car"..."

Not sure what you mean by the Mustang being "softened". Are you referring to the new IRS?

This is the direct quote from the article, explaining why Jon Wells liked the Challenger over the Mustang.

" The 2015 edition is more muscular than the latest Mustang incarnation, which, a Detroit News auto writer chided, has a "dashing" Euro feel with its "fusion-like grille and swept headlights" as Ford eyes international markets.

The Challenger, meanwhile, is "all-beef, all-American muscle."

The article is fun to read:
Jon Wells buys a 2015 Challenger

stickguy

Takes all kinds

driver100

Here are the hi-lites, but please read the article too:

*And while the aluminum body on a revamped, fully-boxed ladder frame, which is now comprised of 78% high-strength steel (improving rigidity by about five to 10%) will steal most of the headlines, the other story here is the new 2.7-litre twin-turbo V6

*t’s also vastly easier to see out of. While wider overall by 40 mm, opening up the interior even more, the hood has lost some power dome bravado but gained better visibility out front. Better, the driver and passenger side windows swoop down more deeply for an excellent view to the left and right, as well as around the large A-pillars

*the other story here is the new 2.7-litre twin-turbo V6. This is, quite simply, a sweetheart engine. Absent of coarseness, it feels very much like the 3.5-litre EcoBoost in terms of power; but the 2.7 EcoBoost somehow comes across as smoother and more playful, as though it’s out to teach the old 3.5 some new tricks.

*As quiet, if not quieter than before, the new F-150 feels structurally tight, too, with more solidity to the cab. Indeed, shutting the door on the outgoing F-150 was like smacking a tray of Jell-O. Slamming the 2015 door is like closing the door to a safe.

There are lots of other features worth reading about....excellent article:
National Post Driving review 2015 Ford F-150

ab348

Re. the 2015 F-150: I have to think that if the pricing on these is not too much different from the 2014, that Ford's profit margins will be significantly reduced because of the use of aluminum. I also am concerned that the use of thinner high-strength steel in the frame will leave these trucks prone to premature frame rust-out in the salt belt, just like the old Ranger. I also find the new instrument panel/dash design very unattractive.

Really, are we not again at the point with full-size pickups that we were with full-size cars in the mid-1970s? These vehicles are needlessly huge, and resorting to aluminum for them to save weight is ignoring the real problem - they are just too bulky. Will someone be brave and introduce a downsized pickup that does not trade off capacity and space, the way GM did with their full-size cars in 1977? We need a return to sanity.

stickguy

I agree trucks are just too damned big now

oldfarmer50

jayrider said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Aggressive salesmanship:

http://www.powernationtv.com/post/dealership-forces-sale-by-blocking-elderly-womans-driveway

Talking about salesmanship -- I've been getting recorded messages from someone with an Indian/Pakastani accent telling me I am about to be brought up on charges in Federal Court. If I call him back, he will help me out of this dire situation.

Probably one of the Edmunds hosts didn't like one of your posts. They have immense power.

Better call that guy back right away.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

"...He just liked the way it represented the 60s, when cars were cars. It isn't softenned to be more European for world wide sales....like a Mustang. He said, this is good old American muscle car, made for America. I wondered what thet would be like...just getting a Challenger just for the pure enjoyment of having a "real car"..."

Not sure what you mean by the Mustang being "softened". Are you referring to the new IRS?

This is the direct quote from the article, explaining why Jon Wells liked the Challenger over the Mustang.

" The 2015 edition is more muscular than the latest Mustang incarnation, which, a Detroit News auto writer chided, has a "dashing" Euro feel with its "fusion-like grille and swept headlights" as Ford eyes international markets.

The Challenger, meanwhile, is "all-beef, all-American muscle."

The article is fun to read:
Jon Wells buys a 2015 Challenger

Ha ha that's funny. I wonder how much Chrysler paid him. Sounds almost as exaggerated as a political ad.

driver100

ab348 said:

Re. the 2015 F-150: I have to think that if the pricing on these is not too much different from the 2014, that Ford's profit margins will be significantly reduced because of the use of aluminum. I also am concerned that the use of thinner high-strength steel in the frame will leave these trucks prone to premature frame rust-out in the salt belt, just like the old Ranger. I also find the new instrument panel/dash design very unattractive.

Really, are we not again at the point with full-size pickups that we were with full-size cars in the mid-1970s? These vehicles are needlessly huge, and resorting to aluminum for them to save weight is ignoring the real problem - they are just too bulky. Will someone be brave and introduce a downsized pickup that does not trade off capacity and space, the way GM did with their full-size cars in 1977? We need a return to sanity.

Sorry ab, to write so much but the reviewer disagrees about the interior, he thinks it is a huge improvement....kind of amusing and interesting to read:

nside is yet another round of key changes. Gone is the biggest slab of plastic this side of a water park that once stood in for a dash. Materials are now varied and sculpted with softer touches all around, and real aluminum on Platinum models. The leather in the Lariat interior seems especially good, and the instrumentation, now with an eight-inch screen that can display just about anything asked of it this side of YouTube videos, even includes tire pressures for each tire. Keyless entry and ignition are available; there are a couple of USB ports, and a 110V/400-watt power outlet capable of powering episodes of Longmire on a 42-inch TV. A new 360-degree bird’s eye-view camera makes positioning the truck a snap, especially to a trailer. This is a cab that can now compete with, maybe even outshine, the excellent interior of the Ram.

And about rusting out:

The military-grade aluminum, requiring some 2,500 rivets to assemble as though it were a P-51 Mustang, will mean less dings and dents showing up on the sheet metal from careless shoppers at the mall, Ford says, and will never rust (though it can corrode), making for a lot of F-150 carcasses dotting farm fields 50 years from now.

*************************************************************************

I would agree, the size of trucks is getting out of hand. But, people don't want small trucks, Ford gave up on the Ranger. Talking about the size of trucks, I find those trucks with the twin wheels in the back are totally ugly, and they are so wide they are often unsafe to pass unless the driver of the truck is right in his lane.

Kind of like the Ford F-450...how would you like to get this into your garage....probably need to back it into your house.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

"...He just liked the way it represented the 60s, when cars were cars. It isn't softenned to be more European for world wide sales....like a Mustang. He said, this is good old American muscle car, made for America. I wondered what thet would be like...just getting a Challenger just for the pure enjoyment of having a "real car"..."

Not sure what you mean by the Mustang being "softened". Are you referring to the new IRS?

This is the direct quote from the article, explaining why Jon Wells liked the Challenger over the Mustang.

" The 2015 edition is more muscular than the latest Mustang incarnation, which, a Detroit News auto writer chided, has a "dashing" Euro feel with its "fusion-like grille and swept headlights" as Ford eyes international markets.

The Challenger, meanwhile, is "all-beef, all-American muscle."

The article is fun to read:
Jon Wells buys a 2015 Challenger

Ha ha that's funny. I wonder how much Chrysler paid him. Sounds almost as exaggerated as a political ad.

I think he was taking literary license to make a point......and just having fun talking about his new "muscle car".

imidazol97

driver100 said:

There are lots of other features worth reading about....excellent article:
National Post Driving review 2015 Ford F-150

Nice conservative source for unbiased reviews according to Wiki.

bwia

ab348 said:

Re. the 2015 F-150: I have to think that if the pricing on these is not too much different from the 2014, that Ford's profit margins will be significantly reduced because of the use of aluminum.

I would expect that the price of aluminum would drop considering the increased use of this metal by Ford. Aluminum is the most abundant metal on earth; what is needed is a less expensive way of processing the material to aluminum. I read somewhere, I can't remember where, that Ford and its suppliers have made several breakthroughs in that regard.

And speaking of large pickups. What is the fun or practicality of driving a small pickup? A pickup is meant to be a workhorse for construction workers, farmers and joyriders (for their gun racks). That does not exclude urbanites though, who from time to time feel like terrorizing people on suburban roads and city streets.

oldfarmer50

"...I would expect that the price of aluminum would drop considering the increased use of this metal by Ford. Aluminum is the most abundant metal on earth; what is needed is a less expensive way of processing the material to aluminum. I read somewhere, I can't remember where, that Ford and its suppliers have made several breakthroughs in that regard..."

Perhaps they have found a way to process all the aluminum beer cans that pick up drivers fling back into the bed. Instead of just rolling around in the bed they ARE the bed.

Personally, if they can figure out a way to shave 700 pounds off a vehicle I don't care if they use Swiss cheese.

bwia

Chevrolet Celebrity Sedan

Yesterday I saw a Chevy Celebrity on the road. It was showroom new and looked like a 1986 or 1987 model year. I don't remember the Celebrity very well but my neighbor had a Pontiac 6000 that looked sharp. (Imidazol97, what's your recollection of this model and why did GM drop it so quickly?)

It might be nostalgia but the Celebrity in blue and chrome clad trim was the nicest looking car on the road. I motioned to the driver to slow down to take a closer look but instead he stepped on the gas.

*Driver can you post pics of a clean looking Celebrity and Pontiac 6000 side. I would appreciate that.

imidazol97

bwia said:

Yesterday I saw a Chevy Celebrity on the road. It was showroom new and looked like a 1986 or 1987 model year. I don't remember the Celebrity very well but my neighbor had a Pontiac 6000 that looked sharp.

Celebrity spanned 1981 to 1987. I believe it was replaced by the Lumina. A strong point was the nice wagons the Celebrity and it's brothers had. The Celebrity was paralleled in Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile by models with few changes other than better accoutrements.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

There are lots of other features worth reading about....excellent article:
National Post Driving review 2015 Ford F-150

Nice conservative source for unbiased reviews according to Wiki.

Interesting that you would check out "The National Post", it is news delivered with a conservative perspective. I read my copy every day, to get the real news.

Unfortunately, I also read our local newspaper which is very left leaning, but, at least I know what is going on in my town. However, I don't think that the car reviews are affected by the papers political views.

Just out of curiosity, if that Ford F-150 review came from a left leaning paper, would you be less likely to believe it? The article about the Challenger was from the local - left newspaper.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

bwia said:

Yesterday I saw a Chevy Celebrity on the road. It was showroom new and looked like a 1986 or 1987 model year. I don't remember the Celebrity very well but my neighbor had a Pontiac 6000 that looked sharp.

Celebrity spanned 1981 to 1987. I believe it was replaced by the Lumina. A strong point was the nice wagons the Celebrity and it's brothers had. The Celebrity was paralleled in Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile by models with few changes other than better accoutrements.

Nicely done imid....you saved me doing it. I owned a 1984 Eurosport Celebrity. Seemed like a poor mans BMW to me at the time, with it's simple square lines. It was pretty good, but not a great car. GM wasn't great making FWD cars, in fact the D3 seemed to have trouble getting it right.

The company offered to get me an 86 Olds Cierra, so I sold the lease to my Celebrity. The Olds was much better in every respect, much nicer interior, and much better steering and handling.



I can see why you are attracted to these cars. They had nice square lines and had big glass area. The design was nice, but, I don't think these will be remembered as all time great cars. A friend had the Buick model and they were actually even nicer riding:

driver100

My Eurosport looked just like this:


Though the 4-door model outsold the 2 door by a wide margin:

ab348

driver100 said:

nside is yet another round of key changes. Gone is the biggest slab of plastic this side of a water park that once stood in for a dash. Materials are now varied and sculpted with softer touches all around, and real aluminum on Platinum models. The leather in the Lariat interior seems especially good, and the instrumentation, now with an eight-inch screen that can display just about anything asked of it this side of YouTube videos, even includes tire pressures for each tire. Keyless entry and ignition are available; there are a couple of USB ports, and a 110V/400-watt power outlet capable of powering episodes of Longmire on a 42-inch TV. A new 360-degree bird’s eye-view camera makes positioning the truck a snap, especially to a trailer. This is a cab that can now compete with, maybe even outshine, the excellent interior of the Ram.

My comment about the IP is based on this pic. To me, this looks almost cartoonish. Ford seems to have trouble with interior design IMO.

And about rusting out:

The military-grade aluminum, requiring some 2,500 rivets to assemble as though it were a P-51 Mustang, will mean less dings and dents showing up on the sheet metal from careless shoppers at the mall, Ford says, and will never rust (though it can corrode), making for a lot of F-150 carcasses dotting farm fields 50 years from now.

The aluminum (let's hope the "military-grade" descriptor gets dropped soon) needs that kind of structure as it is weaker than steel. I wonder how a door skin is riveted to prevent door dings and still maintain a smooth surface in its center. Time will tell on that. I expect they over time will end up looking like aluminum rowboats.

My concern about rusting has nothing to do with aluminum but with the thinner steel used in the vehicle frames. I do not know if high-strength steel is less prone to rusting than regular steel. But when I hear "thinner frame" I think of the downsized '78 GM intermediates, which did the same thing. Their rear frame rails rusted out so badly that GM actually cataloged a repair kit at one point to repair them.

I happened to be in a parking lot on Friday and when I returned I found a F-150 had parked next to me. It was like being docked next to a battleship. Backing out of the space was an adventure in blind backing as you could see nothing. Maybe we need segregated pickup parking sections to keep them away from the rest of us and improve safety.

imidazol97

The Lumina was a W-body car in the lineup along with the Celebrity, which I believe was called A-body. I had an '87 and '89 Century, Buick's version of the A-body. There was nothing missing in respect to transportation with either. Luxury, no; transportation, yes. Reliable were both.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





My concern about rusting has nothing to do with aluminum but with the thinner steel used in the vehicle frames. I do not know if high-strength steel is less prone to rusting than regular steel. But when I hear "thinner frame" I think of the downsized '78 GM intermediates, which did the same thing. Their rear frame rails rusted out so badly that GM actually cataloged a repair kit at one point to repair them.

I happened to be in a parking lot on Friday and when I returned I found a F-150 had parked next to me. It was like being docked next to a battleship. Backing out of the space was an adventure in blind backing as you could see nothing. Maybe we need segregated pickup parking sections to keep them away from the rest of us and improve safety.

The interior looks a bit like the spaceship Gallactica. But, a big improvement over older trucks.


I believe the newer carbon flat rolled steel products used today are corrosive resistant. These products are stronger, lighter, and more resistant to rust...supposedly.

I agree about backing out of a parking spot these days if you are between or beside a van, truck or SUVs. Probably segregated parking would be a good idea. In Florida there is special parking for golf carts in some towns.

js06gv

imidazol97 said:

The Lumina was a W-body car in the lineup along with the Celebrity, which I believe was called A-body. I had an '87 and '89 Century, Buick's version of the A-body. There was nothing missing in respect to transportation with either. Luxury, no; transportation, yes. Reliable were both.

I'm pretty sure the Celebrity limped along for a few years past 1987, maybe to 1990 to overlap a year with the Lumina replacement? The similar Cutlass Ciera and Century went on even longer once Pontiac and Chevy gave up on the A-bodies. Those were manufactured through 1996, and at least at the time represented the longest running platform within GM. The Olds and Buick were really outdated by then, but continued to sell surprisingly well. The original Pontiac 6000 STE was the true poor man's BMW of the day back in 1984. I had the same High Output 2.8L V6 in one of GMs notoriously worst cars, an X-body '84 Skylark. Mine managed to be better than most, and that engine at only 135 hp was quicker and more entertaining than most would assume.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: E15

Study conducted by Kettering University in Michigan reports no remarkable degradation in cars tested going way back to 1995 models.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/53606.pdf

This doesn't mean that an automaker might not try to pull an E15 karate chop on your warranty (which they would have to prove by the way), nor would I particularly recommend E15 to anyone with an older car, but it seems that the media hype on this subject is without thorough scientific validation.

bwia

Thanks imid and Driver for posting those pics. Driver one of your pics, the Cutlass Ciera, did not display; I post it here again for all to see. By the way, I had a 1988 Ciera in that exact color. I kept it for 14 years before giving it away to guy in exchange to stain my deck.

imidazol97

With the talk about the aluminium update to the F150, I read that the CT6 will weight about 50 pounds less than the CTS because of weight-saving measures including improved design and engineering, despite its being a larger vehicle. The firewall area of the front of the passenger cabin was mentioned; they saved several pounds there over the older design and used fewer parts. I don't have a citation for my points. I don't think it was Fox News.

As for the F150 and the newer engineering, if I were in the market for a vehicle and I saw one I liked that was a '14 that was here now and I had the choice of waiting for the newer model with a large change in the vehicle, I would pick the here and now vehicle, much as Sterling did.

I did that with my Malibu by purchasing in March, even though a new color for late '14 and some minor changes were talked about for the '15 models.

I saw Sterlingdog's truck last week--the exact colors with the gray lower portion except it was a 4x4. Beautiful.

Some have mentioned how large these trucks are. GM is moving to make the Colorado/Canyon midsize pickups much more luxurious like the full-size trucks have become to give people another choice.

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Chevrolet Celebrity Sedan

Yesterday I saw a Chevy Celebrity on the road. It was showroom new and looked like a 1986 or 1987 model year. I don't remember the Celebrity very well but my neighbor had a Pontiac 6000 that looked sharp. (Imidazol97, what's your recollection of this model and why did GM drop it so quickly?)

It might be nostalgia but the Celebrity in blue and chrome clad trim was the nicest looking car on the road. I motioned to the driver to slow down to take a closer look but instead he stepped on the gas.

*Driver can you post pics of a clean looking Celebrity and Pontiac 6000 side. I would appreciate that.

I had a 1984 Celeberity Eurosport which I bought used in 87. Lease return I believe. Smoker's car which would be unsalable today but no one cared back then. Sharp looking and handled pretty well I thought. Blew an AC compressor right off the bat and had various other repairs typical of cars of the 80s but nothing serious until the radiator sprung a leak and the heads warped toasting the engine at about 100k miles.

Total junk by today's standards but not bad for the time. Didn't like the Lumina's looks at all.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: E15

Study conducted by Kettering University in Michigan reports no remarkable degradation in cars tested going way back to 1995 models.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/53606.pdf

This doesn't mean that an automaker might not try to pull an E15 karate chop on your warranty (which they would have to prove by the way), nor would I particularly recommend E15 to anyone with an older car, but it seems that the media hype on this subject is without thorough scientific validation.

That report was 137 pages long! Do you think this is all I do with my life?

Are you saying the FOX News report may have been exaggerated? Please note - that is a "dig" for sure

bwia

ab348, I think we have to disagree on the F-150's interior. In my humble opinion I think it is quite nice and with the backup camera and parking sensors not a big deal parking or backing up.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

bwia said:

Chevrolet Celebrity Sedan

Yesterday I saw a Chevy Celebrity on the road. It was showroom new and looked like a 1986 or 1987 model year. I don't remember the Celebrity very well but my neighbor had a Pontiac 6000 that looked sharp. (Imidazol97, what's your recollection of this model and why did GM drop it so quickly?)

It might be nostalgia but the Celebrity in blue and chrome clad trim was the nicest looking car on the road. I motioned to the driver to slow down to take a closer look but instead he stepped on the gas.

*Driver can you post pics of a clean looking Celebrity and Pontiac 6000 side. I would appreciate that.

I had a 1984 Celeberity Eurosport which I bought used in 87. Lease return I believe. Smoker's car which would be unsalable today but no one cared back then. Sharp looking and handled pretty well I thought. Blew an AC compressor right off the bat and had various other repairs typical of cars of the 80s but nothing serious until the radiator sprung a leak and the heads warped toasting the engine at about 100k miles.

Total junk by today's standards but not bad for the time. Didn't like the Lumina's looks at all.

You can't blame that 84 Eurosport on me.......I don't smoke and no one smoked in my Eurosport.. You bought someone else's Eurosport.

The Century, 6000 and Ciera were all built on same chasis, but each division used it's engineers to tune the steering and suspension etc. There was a big difference between the Celebrity and the Cierra, with the Cierra being much more refined.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I already did the work for you----"no remarkable degradation in vehicles tested". Kettering has pretty good creds. Take it or leave it. I admit that IS a lot of bathroom reading!

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: E15

Study conducted by Kettering University in Michigan reports no remarkable degradation in cars tested going way back to 1995 models.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/53606.pdf

This doesn't mean that an automaker might not try to pull an E15 karate chop on your warranty (which they would have to prove by the way), nor would I particularly recommend E15 to anyone with an older car, but it seems that the media hype on this subject is without thorough scientific validation.

That report was 137 pages long! Do you think this is all I do with my life?

Are you saying the FOX News report may have been exaggerated? Please note - that is a "dig" for sure

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well I already did the work for you----"no remarkable degradation in vehicles tested". Kettering has pretty good creds. Take it or leave it. I admit that IS a lot of bathroom reading!

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: E15

Study conducted by Kettering University in Michigan reports no remarkable degradation in cars tested going way back to 1995 models.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/53606.pdf

This doesn't mean that an automaker might not try to pull an E15 karate chop on your warranty (which they would have to prove by the way), nor would I particularly recommend E15 to anyone with an older car, but it seems that the media hype on this subject is without thorough scientific validation.

That report was 137 pages long! Do you think this is all I do with my life?

Are you saying the FOX News report may have been exaggerated? Please note - that is a "dig" for sure

Thanks for doing all the research Mr. S. Now can you find out if these aluminum bodies or if lighter steel is going to rust more easily? Your condensed version will be fine.

Mr_Shiftright

Ohhh complicated question! Aluminum is this very special kind of metal that can do all sorts of things that appear contradictory.

Here's a less-than-137 page- discussion of the corrosive potentialities of aluminum:

Corrosion of Aluminum

Well, if you just bought an aluminum truck, that should keep you up at night!

But ultimately, what happens to your aluminum-bodied car or truck depends a lot on where it sits and what you do to it/with it.

imidazol97

As long a Ford has done their homework on having dissimilar metals in contact on the various aluminium parts and has studied their proper paint prep for the aluminium panels, things should be okay. I would hope for a long warranty on the body, however. Ford may end up having a secret warranty repair for some. But I'll be bold and predict that to be less of a problem than the corrosion problems with steels.

Ford was owner of Jaguar for a while. I wonder if they learned from Jaguar about aluminium use. Aren't certain past Jaguar models using aluminium bodies?

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Ohhh complicated question! Aluminum is this very special kind of metal that can do all sorts of things that appear contradictory.

Here's a less-than-137 page- discussion of the corrosive potentialities of aluminum:

Corrosion of Aluminum

Well, if you just bought an aluminum truck, that should keep you up at night!

But ultimately, what happens to your aluminum-bodied car or truck depends a lot on where it sits and what you do to it/with it.

I'll wait for the Monarch Notes version....it will take me a week to read that and even then I won't understand it. I do know this, the Ford F-150 is so important to Ford's well being, that I doubt if they would be using aluminum if they didn't think it would be better. But, then again, they thought the Edsel would be a big success.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Perhaps they have found a way to process all the aluminum beer cans that pick up drivers fling back into the bed. Instead of just rolling around in the bed they ARE the bed.

No, because that would be Budweiser or Miller-grade aluminum, not "military-grade".

ab348

sterlingdog said:

The article also mentioned suspension. It said that when the truck is loaded that the suspension is better and that you don't feel the roughness as much.

I suppose it depends how you look at it. The Edmunds review said the new suspension was not as good as the previous model when unladen, feeling somewhat rougher and "bound up". Not a way I like to feel.

I really don't have a dog in this fight. I just find these vehicles a bit crazy for most people. But I think they are taking the place of grandad's body-on-frame mid-'70s Cadillac, Mercury, Buick or Lincoln sedan with the big V-8 that just floated down the road for people who want a gigantic vehicle.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

Celebrity spanned 1981 to 1987. I believe it was replaced by the Lumina. A strong point was the nice wagons the Celebrity and it's brothers had. The Celebrity was paralleled in Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile by models with few changes other than better accoutrements.

I somehow managed to avoid these. My two brothers owned them though, one with a Pontiac 6000 V-6, the other with a pair of different Celebrities, one of them being a wagon. One of the Celebs had the 4-banger under the hood and he hated it. The other two cars seemed OK.

I was tempted by them twice, though. There was a used Ciera wagon for sale here in the early '90s, I forget the model year, but it was apparently owned by an older couple and was well-maintained and lightly used. The thing about it that I liked best (I didn't really need a wagon) was that it was painted a nice not overly eye-popping shade of yellow and combined with the woodgrain it looked sharp.

The other one I was interested in was out of my price range at the time since it was brand new - a Ciera International series 2-door with the 3800 under the hood that was on a dealers lot. I thought that probably ran well for the times.

mako1a

Ford's 2014 steel built or the 2015 aluminum built. I would buy either one without worry. However I have to congratulate Richard for choosing the 5.0 V-8 engine over the ecoboost. Eco has only been out since 2011 and even though I hope it works well, it hasn't been around long enough for me to spend a large sum on it. (eco costs more as well).

mako1a

Problem solved regarding roll bar on tractor being too tall to fit in my garage.
I went to my local Kubota dealer and sat down with the owner. Told him I just bought a New Holland TC-18 and wasn't happy with it concerning garage fit. I said I'd also rather have a front loader than a plow. He took me outside to size up a new B2320 and a few BX models, both with front loaders. $15,350 later I'm owner of a B2320 with 4WD, hydrostatic trans and front loader. Got $6k trade on the TC-18 sight unseen (I had a pic and the low hours). Tuesday the special ordered tires come in and they'll deliver the brand spanking new Kubota and remove the old tractor stuck in my garage. Tire upgrade to R-4s is $200 per tire which I believe is worth the wait. ps, Kubota comes with folding roll bar.

bwia

Yes aluminum does corrode and salt is its main enemy. But remember aluminum is not used in its pure state but rather it is mixed with other metals to form a strong and impermeable alloy. In the case of the F-150, Ford is using a Magnesium and silica aluminum alloy which is military grade strong and Ford tough.

Watch this YouTube video that mentions that Ford has been field testing the aluminum F-150 bodies since 2002 without the knowledge of the users and they preferred the aluminum trucks over steel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPE33xc0x_s

imidazol97

mako1a said:

P uesday the special ordered tires come in and they'll deliver the brand spanking new Kubota and remove the old tractor stuck in my garage. .

Our garage door runs up tracks. It stops with the last panel, angle down some. But I can unclip the door from the screw on the opener and push the door up farther so that the door is completely on the upper part of the track and flat. That gives about 8 inches more opening height? Is that possible with your door?

mako1a

Is that possible with your door?

Yes, pull the red handle and it releases the motor unit allowing about 4 inches of manual push.
No longer a problem with the new tractor as the roll bar folds down.

robr2

Further on the aluminum F150 - they ran the Baja 1000 with one last year, sort of.

They used the 2015 underpinnings with a 2014 body stamped in aluminum. The only race mods it had were lifting springs, shocks from the Raptor, a fuel cell and all terrain tires. Everything else was bone stock including the Eco Boost engine.

It made it without any component failures.

ab348

I'm sure they will work fine in the short term. What happens once they get out in the real world for the long haul will tell the tale.

roadburner

mako1a said:

Is that possible with your door?

Yes, pull the red handle and it releases the motor unit allowing about 4 inches of manual push.
No longer a problem with the new tractor as the roll bar folds down.

My Enforcer 54 was one of the biggest commercial ZTRs that didn't come with a roll bar. It's not needed where I use it and it would be a royal pain when I cut under low-hanging trees- even when folded.