Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Also, interesting article on buyers remorse. In Ontario Canada a survey stated 1/2 of car buyers will be buying another make next time. And 1/3 of new car buyers surveyed were not thrilled with their purchase.

Lots to consider and look at before commiting to a new car. Keep all this in mind oldfarmer.

I was surprised at those statistics.
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Note to Fezo RE: You guys that are always buying new every few years (or in Mike's case every few months) miss all this fun.

I have experienced all that fun for many years. I probably spent 1/4 of my younger days trying to get cars repaired. That's why I really don't want to have to do it again,

Yeah but you'll never know the thrill of getting an old car fixed on the cheap.

The thing is, in my experience at least, if you maintain a car properly you will have few unscheduled surprises. I budget less than the average American's car payment each month for repairs and maintenance on all of my cars and my bike.

Just because you have the money in your pocket doesn't mean you shouldn't avoid laying it on the counter if possible.

driver100

bwia said:

driver100 said:

bwia said:

I posted this on the Tesla thread but thought I'd share with the regulars here.

The Tesla Model S with dual motor all wheel drive P85D Autopilot test flight. Impressive neck-snapping acceleration, hands-free driving and hands free parking coming later this year or early next year.
Enjoy!


That was cool. I don't know if I would trust my car enough to let it drive itself.

The other thing is...now that I have mastered the links...how do you imbed the video?

Not sure if it works the same for all videos, but for YouTube videos, simply cut and paste the URL, and the video is imbedded automatically.

Thanks bwia, I'll keep that in mind when I have a video worth sharing.

driver100

I was wondering about something. I bought my 2008 bmw from a dealer who has many dealerships, all selling different brands. Many people, including me, don't like this dealer because they don't discount their cars, or if they do not by very much.

So, we went to a show today - and saw the Judge which was really good...I wonder if roadburner is going to go?......anyway, they showed a commercial from that same dealer for Suburu....they showd a nice white Forester in the ad. It made me think, do you think if they don't discount at their bmw dealership, do you think they would discount at their Suburu, GM, Jaguar, Lexus etc. dealerships or would they operate each differently?

stickguy

my guess, they operate differently based on the basic economic factors. IOW supply and demand.

Jag, maybe BMW where you are, might not have as much competition. And some level of snobbishness? But, for a brand with a lot of other shopping options, they pretty much have to match price. Lower end buyers, they shop around!

houdini1

HEY, HOW 'BOUT DEM ROYALS !!

driver100

stickguy said:

my guess, they operate differently based on the basic economic factors. IOW supply and demand.

Jag, maybe BMW where you are, might not have as much competition. And some level of snobbishness? But, for a brand with a lot of other shopping options, they pretty much have to match price. Lower end buyers, they shop around!

Lots of people who have bmws say they won't buy at this particular dealer....and it is in a very affluent area where people just don't care if they pay full MSRP. They probably sell half as many cars, but still have good profit margins.

I do agree, they would have to be more competitive with some other lines, like GM. I don't think their dealership would be my first choice for buying a GM, Subie, Toyota or some other brands. I doubt if they are the low price leader for any lines.

stickguy

well, I guess some people will always just go to the most convenient place, or pay more for the pampering they give you. Or are stupid.

or maybe the market in Canada is just different. I know by me, the BMW dealers fight tooth and nail, on price.

driver100

stickguy said:

well, I guess some people will always just go to the most convenient place, or pay more for the pampering they give you. Or are stupid.

or maybe the market in Canada is just different. I know by me, the BMW dealers fight tooth and nail, on price.

I think that dealer is in a wealthy area.....big executive doesn't want to drive 30 minutes to another dealer. If it is his wife's car she won't want to drive 30 minutes to another dealer....they don't realize they can do servicing at the local dealer anyway. Probably no time to compare and look around....when I tell most people about my wheeling and dealing they think I am unusual. I think they try to get a discount and pretty well go with what is offered.

henryn

driver100 said:

....when I tell most people about my wheeling and dealing they think I am unusual. I think they try to get a discount and pretty well go with what is offered.

Most people are very uncomfortable with price negotiations. Here in the US (and Canada), we don’t do price negotiations on much of anything. Buying a new or used car, buying a house – nothing much else comes to mind. Which is why the “buying services” offered by Costco and USAA are popular with many people.

I predict within the next 10 to 15 years, cars are going to be sold at a fixed price. It is what the majority of consumers want, and sooner or later the market will have to pay attention to what the customers want. It seems (at least to me) that it is the car dealers, not the manufacturers, who want to maintain the present status quo. With Tesla set to break the “market lock” of car dealers, the car buying world is about to change, dramatically.

abacomike

henryn said:

....when I tell most people about my wheeling and dealing they think I am unusual. I think they try to get a discount and pretty well go with what is offered.

Most people are very uncomfortable with price negotiations. Here in the US (and Canada), we don’t do price negotiations on much of anything. Buying a new or used car, buying a house – nothing much else comes to mind. Which is why the “buying services” offered by Costco and USAA are popular with many people. I predict within the next 10 to 15 years, cars are going to be sold at a fixed price. It is what the majority of consumers want, and sooner or later the market will have to pay attention to what the customers want. It seems (at least to me) that it is the car dealers, not the manufacturers, who want to maintain the present status quo. With Tesla set to break the “market lock” of car dealers, the car buying world is about to change, dramatically.

If manufacturers wanted to eliminate multifaceted pricing at the dealership level and/or at the "fleet" level such as USAA, COSTCO, etc., all they would have to do is eliminate "fleet" incentives and rewrite dealership contracts and agreements.  The manufacturer has that power over the dealership networks. 

Thus, it is not the dealerships alone who want to maintain multi-tiered pricing, but also the manufacturers.  

As for the future, it all depends on the manufacturers and what they want!

bwia

@henryn said:

I predict within the next 10 to 15 years, cars are going to be sold at a fixed price. It is what the majority of consumers want, and sooner or later the market will have to pay attention to what the customers want. It seems (at least to me) that it is the car dealers, not the manufacturers, who want to maintain the present status quo.

I agree with you to a certain extent. The base price (with minimal options) will probably a fixed price, but the options will be priced as single options or as packages. This will lead to even higher prices for the consumer; Exhibit A, the cable and telecommunications companies.

Price is not only a function of cost. It is based upon other variables such as supply and demand, prestige, information, and time sensitivity. As long as these factors are not in equilibrium prices will fluctuate; and that is how a market based economy works.

By the way, Warren Buffett is getting into the car dealership business. Don't know what the overall impact will be but it sure will affect those areas where the dealerships are based.

driver100

henryn said:

driver100 said:

....when I tell most people about my wheeling and dealing they think I am unusual. I think they try to get a discount and pretty well go with what is offered.

Most people are very uncomfortable with price negotiations. Here in the US (and Canada), we don’t do price negotiations on much of anything. Buying a new or used car, buying a house – nothing much else comes to mind. Which is why the “buying services” offered by Costco and USAA are popular with many people.

I predict within the next 10 to 15 years, cars are going to be sold at a fixed price. It is what the majority of consumers want, and sooner or later the market will have to pay attention to what the customers want. It seems (at least to me) that it is the car dealers, not the manufacturers, who want to maintain the present status quo. With Tesla set to break the “market lock” of car dealers, the car buying world is about to change, dramatically.

I am sure one day soon amazon will be selling cars. And, someday manufacturers will just have showrooms and a service department. You go for a test drive at the showroom, but all pricing is done through the manufacturer....set pricing.

Mike said all they (manufacturers) would have to do is eliminate "fleet" incentives and rewrite dealership contracts and agreements. The manufacturer has that power over the dealership networks.

But can the manufacturer dictate final pricing? I suppose they can depending on their agreements...like you can't have one Wendy's selling for less than the others.

Bwia said By the way, Warren Buffett is getting into the car dealership business. Don't know what the overall impact will be but it sure will affect those areas where the dealerships are based.

I am surprised Buffett would get involved in selling cars at this point in time. Margins are being squeezed and it is a very competitive market, that is probably due to change soon. Used cars may have more potential, but that market seems to be covered well. But, then again, Buffett makes few mistakes.

driver100

Speaking of Warren Buffett....we have a very successful business guy in Canada. His name is Ted Rogers and he owns radio stations, cable companies, cell phone company and others. He says he likes businesses where people have to subscribe, that way he has a steady stream of money coming in regularly.....not like selling cars which have to be sold one at a time.

I was wondering how you could apply this to the car market? For example, you would agree to buy a car every 3 years for 15 years. The cost of the cars may come down because you know you can sell a certain number of cars for sure. You can line up subscribers to buy used cars every 3 years too. Customers should get lower prices since the numbers are locked in...like selling tickets on a cruise, season's tickets to a football team etc.

Maybe a company that is struggling for better numbers would be interested in the Driver Car Subscription Service? I think it would be good for Mitsubushi. btw they had an ad on TV for the Outlander and it looked really nice.

It's Canadian Thanksgiving so hoping you all have lots to be Thankful for. We get to celebrate again when we are in Florida on November 27th. I am thankful I made it through another year!

abacomike

@driver100:

"But can the manufacturer dictate final pricing? I suppose they can depending on their agreements...like you can't have one Wendy's selling for less than the others."

There are very few things you buy on the open market that have a "one price only" pricing policy.  Just about everything and anything you want to buy is open to price negotiation.

ab348

abacomike said:

@driver100:

"But can the manufacturer dictate final pricing? I suppose they can depending on their agreements...like you can't have one Wendy's selling for less than the others."

There are very few things you buy on the open market that have a "one price only" pricing policy.  Just about everything and anything you want to buy is open to price negotiation.

Agree. And a car is a major purchase, unlike a hamburger or the latest made-in-China electronic at Walmart. It is more akin to buying a house. Major purchases are always subject to negotiation. No manufacturer can predict demand for a new model or the actions of competitors, so the ability to negotiate price and incentives is a necessity in such situations.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

.like you can't have one Wendy's selling for less than the others."< There are very few things you buy on the open market that have a "one price only" pricing policy.  Just about everything and anything you want to buy is open to price negotiation.

Different Wendy's do have different prices here.

abacomike

It's the same with airline tickets or hotel rooms.  

I enjoy those exposes on TV like "60 Minutes" where they show you the seating plan on a Boeing 737 and what each passenger paid for their seat.  It is rare to see more than a few seats where passengers paid the same amount.  Same for hotel rooms.

As for new or used houses, the same is true.  For new houses, you can negotiate a price and include upgrades such as fireplaces and tile, not to mention piped in music w/speakers, a patio, etc.  used houses - make an offer!

It's a mixture of supply and demand, timing of the purchase, as well as skill in negotiating.  Quite a few variables determine what the buyer will ultimately pay for a product or service.

Even shopping for an attorney - most take 1/3 for their fee based on the recovery - but many will negotiate that fee, as I have learned.

Buying a new car is perhaps the one activity with the most variables:

negotiating skills; trade values; interest rates (which by themselves are negotiable); inventories/availability (supply); factory vs dealer invoice vs dead cost; etc., etc., etc.,....

The more variables, the more flexibility in pricing and negotiating!!!

abacomike

EASY STEPS TO BUYING A CAR

*Make sure you want to buy a new car - by asking yourself over and over again if you want, need, desire a new car.  If your answer to the above question is YES every single time you ask yourself that question, you are ready to move on to the process.

*Which car do you want to buy?  This is the most time consuming of all the steps!  The process involves the narrowing of choices that "turn you on" to just one.  The initial determination involves the price - what can you afford or what are you willing to pay for a new car?  Then, in theat price line, which car meets with your desires - size, # of doors, power, fuel economy, comfort, handling, good looks, and an inordinate number of other considerations. Once you know which vehicle you are ready to buy, the rest is elementary.

*First, which is most important - price, service, distance to dealership, treatment from the dealer, etc.  arrange the answers from most important to least important.

*Proceed to the selection of color and equipment/options.  

*Research the vehicle on Edmunds and other sources on line - invoice, incentives, trade in value of current vehicle if applicable, etc.

*Develop an offer for the vehicle - what you are willing to pay the dealer including dealer fees,

*Visit at least 3 dealerships who sell that vehicle and buy the car.  You will buy it at the dealership who met your price - and most importantly - STICK TO YOUR GUNS and be assertive, and realistic!

In a nutshell, this is how I buy my cars.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

EASY STEPS TO BUYING A CAR

*Make sure you want to buy a new car - by asking yourself over and over again if you want, need, desire a new car.  If your answer to the above question is YES every single time you ask yourself that question, you are ready to move on to the process.

*Which car do you want to buy?  This is the most time consuming of all the steps!  The process involves the narrowing of choices that "turn you on" to just one.  The initial determination involves the price - what can you afford or what are you willing to pay for a new car?  Then, in theat price line, which car meets with your desires - size, # of doors, power, fuel economy, comfort, handling, good looks, and an inordinate number of other considerations. Once you know which vehicle you are ready to buy, the rest is elementary.

*First, which is most important - price, service, distance to dealership, treatment from the dealer, etc.  arrange the answers from most important to least important.

*Proceed to the selection of color and equipment/options.  

*Research the vehicle on Edmunds and other sources on line - invoice, incentives, trade in value of current vehicle if applicable, etc.

*Develop an offer for the vehicle - what you are willing to pay the dealer including dealer fees,

*Visit at least 3 dealerships who sell that vehicle and buy the car.  You will buy it at the dealership who met your price - and most importantly - STICK TO YOUR GUNS and be assertive, and realistic!

In a nutshell, this is how I buy my cars.

I made up a for sale sign for the Eclipse today. I guess I'm serious.

abacomike

@oldfarmer50‌:

"I made up a for sale sign for the Eclipse today. I guess I'm serious."

OF, I've known you (posting-wise) for a number of years now.  You possess a "tell" (a tic or a hint, much like poker players) when it comes to buying and selling cars.  Thus, IMHO, based on tour "tell", you are not serious yet!  You are still in the process of contemplating your navel (or someone else's) when it comes to buying that Mustang.  When you post that you found the exact car you were looking for at a dealer near you at the price you are willing to pay - and your wife fell in love with it too - that's the "tell" that assures all of us that you are not only serious, but are on your way to the dealership now!

Massaging the idea of buying a new Mustang in your cerebrum and making up a "FOR SALE SIGN" for the Eclipse are merely signs of interest, not of actually "buying" a new car.  Am I right OF?

stickguy

well, Farmer does have a fleet. so he could troll the Eclipse, and if the right offer popped up, move it now without having to replace it immediately.

driver100

I this decision to put a sign on the "Eclipse" is to take the place of really doing anything positive toward moving on the Mustang. "IF" you did start the process toward getting the real Mustang....what car would you be trading in? How much are you hoping to get for the Eclipse?
What year is it so we can find a picture?

jayrider

driver100 said:

I this decision to put a sign on the "Eclipse" is to take the place of really doing anything positive toward moving on the Mustang. "IF" you did start the process toward getting the real Mustang....what car would you be trading in? How much are you hoping to get for the Eclipse?
What year is it so we can find a picture?

Saw a 2014 Mustang GT convertible black over white with an awesome red interior. I can't imagine feeling any better in a 2015. It was beautiful.

stickguy

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

nyccarguy

@driver100‌

Check out WHY Warren Buffett is getting into the car business. He says that new car sales are only part of the equation. Finance departments, Used Car Sales, & service make up a larger percentage of dealerships' revenue. If new car sales are down because of a slow economy, the dealership pays out less money in salary & commissions. A new car sale is the profit they make on selling the car, plus has the possibility of selling a warranty, & financing. Same with used cars, plus there is a much higher margin. If the economy goes bad, people keep their cars longer means $$$$$ for the service department.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

@driver100‌

Check out WHY Warren Buffett is getting into the car business. He says that new car sales are only part of the equation. Finance departments, Used Car Sales, & service make up a larger percentage of dealerships' revenue. If new car sales are down because of a slow economy, the dealership pays out less money in salary & commissions. A new car sale is the profit they make on selling the car, plus has the possibility of selling a warranty, & financing. Same with used cars, plus there is a much higher margin. If the economy goes bad, people keep their cars longer means $$$$$ for the service department.

and, he's betting on a major consolidation of dealers in the future. The 78 dealers he's buying now are only the beginning.

abacomike

Berkshire Hathaway now owns 4 dealerships down here - Delray Beach and Deerfield Beach - from their acquisition of that 60+ dealer network.  He is now in direct competition with AutoNation.

There was a big write-up in our Ft. Lauderdale paper a few weeks back.  AutoNation's corporate headquarters are in Ft. Lauderdale.  AutoNation stock prices have been gaining in value due to record sales and profits.

IMHO, I see more and more conglamorate type dealership organizations in the near future and fewer and fewer smaller dealerships.  I worked for JM Family - owners of several large dealerships as well as Southeast Toyota Distributorship - and the Terry Taylor organization which owns 70+ dealerships.

Right now, between JM Family enterprises, AutoNation, Berkshire Hathaway, Longo, Rick Case, Penske, etc., these corporations own over 1000 dealerships.  AutoNation, Berkshire Hathaway and Rick Case have been adding more and more acquisitions monthly.

I believe that Buffet saw the tremendous growth in earnings of AutoNation in recent years to whet his appetite to enter the car business game.  They are now in Real Estate sales big time, as well.  

If Del Monte can own funeral homes (back in the 1980's) throughout the country, why shouldn't Buffet diversify into car dealerships?

abacomike

Driver100:

When I was at my dealership last week (when they told me there is a hold on all the 2015 E Class vehicles at the port, the rationale given to me as related by the Mercedes Fleet rep who was there that day is that there is still a good inventory of 2014's on dealer lots which they want to reduce prior to releasing the 2015's.  Additionally, Mercedes had a tentative release/debut date of October 15Th, which may be extended in order to further reduce 2014 inventory.

I have a feeling the 2015's will be arriving at dealership on it about this coming week.

I hop yours comes in quickly as you are leaving for Florida in early November.

I sure would like to see it / let's shoot for October 17th!

abacomike

Survey obviously not approved for posting by Edmunds

graphicguy

researchgurl said:

Kirstie_H said:

This is the all-new continuation of "Stories from the Sales Frontlines." The focus of that discussion has evolved over the years, so we're making the title more inclusive, asking members to post stories from the perspective of each side of the transaction.

Hey car buyers,

I am conducting a research for my school project on car buying decisions and your input will be very useful in my research. Can you please take the following very quick survey? After you take a survey, please leave a comment on the thread as well...

[non-permissible content removed]

Cheers... J

Completed

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

@oldfarmer50‌:

"I made up a for sale sign for the Eclipse today. I guess I'm serious."

OF, I've known you (posting-wise) for a number of years now.  You possess a "tell" (a tic or a hint, much like poker players) when it comes to buying and selling cars.  Thus, IMHO, based on tour "tell", you are not serious yet!  You are still in the process of contemplating your navel (or someone else's) when it comes to buying that Mustang.  When you post that you found the exact car you were looking for at a dealer near you at the price you are willing to pay - and your wife fell in love with it too - that's the "tell" that assures all of us that you are not only serious, but are on your way to the dealership now!

Massaging the idea of buying a new Mustang in your cerebrum and making up a "FOR SALE SIGN" for the Eclipse are merely signs of interest, not of actually "buying" a new car.  Am I right OF?

You could be. After all I did mull over the Eclipse purchase for two years before they came out with just the right combo of colors and options.

houdini1

stickguy said:

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

At that price, OF should be all over that car. OF that shows you what your 2015 for $35,000. will be worth when you drive it off the lot. Since you keep your cars for a few years, something like this would make a lot of sense.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

I this decision to put a sign on the "Eclipse" is to take the place of really doing anything positive toward moving on the Mustang. "IF" you did start the process toward getting the real Mustang....what car would you be trading in? How much are you hoping to get for the Eclipse?
What year is it so we can find a picture?

Here's what my 2008 GT looks like:
http://cdn.getauto.com/photos/7/160837/1c/4A3AK34T17E007943-1c.jpg

Thought I'd try to test the market by pricing the Eclipse at $11,000. If it moves, great. Otherwise, thinking of asking a dealer to give me $10k as a trade. I'm a little high on both according to Edmunds. The low miles (44k) and the "never seen snow" condition might attract the private buyer.

My thoughts are that if I trade at a dealer I'm pretty much stuck paying MSRP for the time being, so maybe there's a little room to pad the trade. I see cars like mine in the lots for $12-13k. The ones I see in person make mine look showroom new.

mako1a

This article from Automotive News gives a good perspective about dealership buyouts from corporation investors and what states are targeted and why.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20141013/RETAIL/310139954/factories-dealers-clash-over-canceled-store-sales?cciid=email-autonews-

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

This one comes pretty close. If only I could convince myself to go with standard shift.

http://www.inventory.ford.com/dealer/Dowling-Ford-Inc-03658/model/2015-Mustang/vin/1FA6P8CF5F5300509?zipcode=06495&segment=Car&inventoryType=extended&ownerPACode=03603&lang=en&branding=1

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

Like that milage. Funny how these days 300 hp is considered a poser.

driver100

abacomike said:

Ber.

I believe that Buffet saw the tremendous growth in earnings of AutoNation in recent years to whet his appetite to enter the car business game.  They are now in Real Estate sales big time, as well.  

If Del Monte can own funeral homes (back in the 1980's) throughout the country, why shouldn't Buffet diversify into car dealerships?

Buffett sure is smart....it does make sense. I have a problem seeing businesses survive as technology changes so quickly. One guy in town blew $300k to buy a Motophoto in town and then digital cameras came out. Blockbuster had stores in every town, and then Pay per Vue came along. Book stores were doing nicely, and then E-readers and Amazon came along. Best Buy was going great too, until people found they could buy for less on the internet.

Buffett can look into the future and know what we still will want......like Gillette razor blades, so it probably does make sense.

I worked for a division of Warner Brothers for many years. WB was a struggling movie company just about to go bust. Steve Ross was director of his father in laws funeral company. Kinney Corp owned parking lots, limo srevices and funeral homes. Ross decided to use the limos for double duty and took celebrities to big events. He saw WBs was a struggling studio, and he bought it and turned it around into an entertainment giant. Some people have the vision!

oldfarmer50

houdini1 said:

stickguy said:

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

At that price, OF should be all over that car. OF that shows you what your 2015 for $35,000. will be worth when you drive it off the lot. Since you keep your cars for a few years, something like this would make a lot of sense.

Let's see that car probably MSRPed for about 27k depending on options so figure $24-25 selling price. Which means $5-6k depreciation for 3000 miles? Pretty steep downward curve.

Well, I always tell myself that I'll be keeping my new cars until they are classics so using the driver100 method of cost analysis that comes out to pennies a day.

driver100

abacomike said:

Driver100:

When I was at my dealership last week (when they told me there is a hold on all the 2015 E Class vehicles at the port, the rationale given to me as related by the Mercedes Fleet rep who was there that day is that there is still a good inventory of 2014's on dealer lots which they want to reduce prior to releasing the 2015's.  Additionally, Mercedes had a tentative release/debut date of October 15Th, which may be extended in order to further reduce 2014 inventory.

I have a feeling the 2015's will be arriving at dealership on it about this coming week.

I hop yours comes in quickly as you are leaving for Florida in early November.

I sure would like to see it / let's shoot for October 17th!

Mike, my salesman originally said my car would be in mid October, and now by the end of October. Your timeline sounds about right, and I guess they leave the actual release date flexible depending on the inventory of 2014s left.

IMHO I would only by a 2014 if I knew I was going to keep it for at least 6 years, probably 8. I may save $2 or $3k, but it will probably depreciate at least double that in the first year. If I trade after 3 years, I figure I will lose $4 or $5K, maybe more. Sometimes prices go down...my 2012 535 actually cost less than a sililar equipped 2011, because of the way they configured the option packages. BMW realized what items most people really wanted, and put them into one big package. Also, you get the latest new features which can be substantial these days.
The downside is you have to wait 2 months to get your car.

I am wondering too, I get another free oil change at 48K miles. I am now at 45K. Should I try to get an oil change before trading it in or should I let the dealer worry about it?

driver100

houdini1 said:

stickguy said:

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

At that price, OF should be all over that car. OF that shows you what your 2015 for $35,000. will be worth when you drive it off the lot. Since you keep your cars for a few years, something like this would make a lot of sense.

$19000 with 3600 miles....why buy a new one! OF, trade in the Mitsu on this one right away!

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

Like that milage. Funny how these days 300 hp is considered a poser.

While the later V6 Mustangs aren't slugs, they aren'r all that fast, either. Still, I just think a V6 ponycar is a crime against nature- akin to a Miata with a slushbox or a Wrangler Unlimited with 2WD....

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

houdini1 said:

stickguy said:

I actually saw one I liked listed. looks like a base, no option 2014 with nearly no miles. Not that expensive either. Plus I like the color combo, even though it is a V6 "poser"

http://www.palisadesmazda.com/used/Ford/2014-Ford-Mustang-ffa8670b0a0a00644d0061dea597e1a2.htm

At that price, OF should be all over that car. OF that shows you what your 2015 for $35,000. will be worth when you drive it off the lot. Since you keep your cars for a few years, something like this would make a lot of sense.

Let's see that car probably MSRPed for about 27k depending on options so figure $24-25 selling price. Which means $5-6k depreciation for 3000 miles? Pretty steep downward curve.

Well, I always tell myself that I'll be keeping my new cars until they are classics so using the driver100 method of cost analysis that comes out to pennies a day.

Driver 100 method of cost analysis:

Cost of car $20000.

Keep the car for 10 years = an almost new car for $2000 a year less residual value approx $1500 a year.

Keep the car for 20 years = an almost new car for $1000 a year less residual value approx $700 a year.

Using Driver Method, it's a deal you can't refuse.

ab348

If you're going to buy an impractical fun car, don't get the secretary-special version. You need to buy a GT if you're interested in a Mustang. I can relate as I almost bought one, similar story, found a 2010 GT with low miles on the Ford dealer's lot. Grabber Blue, gray interior, stripes. Was surprised how much I liked it because I wasn't a fan of that color at first. in the end I decided to pass because it was the last year of the 4.6 engine and everyone said the 5.0 was the way to go.

Michaell

ab348 said:

If you're going to buy an impractical fun car, don't get the secretary-special version. You need to buy a GT if you're interested in a Mustang. I can relate as I almost bought one, similar story, found a 2010 GT with low miles on the Ford dealer's lot. Grabber Blue, gray interior, stripes. Was surprised how much I liked it because I wasn't a fan of that color at first. in the end I decided to pass because it was the last year of the 4.6 engine and everyone said the 5.0 was the way to go.

+1.

If you're going to get a pony car, get the V8. Period. Anything else and you'll come to regret the decision.

In my mind's eye I would love a white Mustang GT with the 5.0 and automatic. Minimal options, then swap the stock exhaust for a Borla cat-back system.

New or used, wouldn't matter - would be just a toy for special occasions - like Bandimere Speedway.

stickguy

15 city on the Mustang. Haven't seen that low a rating in a while. Except on a pick up.

nyccarguy

stickguy

I just filled up on Route 46 yesterday (your side of the GW), $2.99/gal and i saw $2.95/gal on the East Bound side:)

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

15 city on the Mustang. Haven't seen that low a rating in a while. Except on a pick up.

I think that's the government messing with the EPA numbers again. Ford said the tweaks for 2015 would result in better economy than the 2014 but then Uncle Sam started fooling around. I seem to remember reading there was a new methodology for 2015. I know a few years ago the Eclipse went from 28 to 26 highway and 20 to 19 city even though there were no changes to the car.

Any V8 sucks at city milage. My 4.6L Lincoln gets 28 on the highway but 6 as you accelerate from a stop. If you average things out you could be doing very nice overall if you stay out of gridlock.

stickguy

a couple of stations (real gas and everything) near me are down to $2.85.9 now. Have not seen that in a while.

bwia

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

Ber.

I believe that Buffet saw the tremendous growth in earnings of AutoNation in recent years to whet his appetite to enter the car business game.  They are now in Real Estate sales big time, as well.  

If Del Monte can own funeral homes (back in the 1980's) throughout the country, why shouldn't Buffet diversify into car dealerships?

Buffett can look into the future and know what we still will want......like Gillette razor blades, so it probably does make sense.

Some people have the vision!

But vision without execution is confusion

abacomike

@driver100:

"Mike, my salesman originally said my car would be in mid October, and now by the end of October. Your timeline sounds about right, and I guess they leave the actual release date flexible depending on the inventory of 2014s left."

Yes, that is correct.  I got a call from the salesman who delivers all my new cars this morning.  He verified the fact that MB will not be releasing the 2015 E Class cars until existing/remaining 2014's on dealer lots reduces by 75%.

So the last week of October should be when the 2015's will be released.  I am in no particular hurry to trade my car in at this point.  

If I had to order another E400 at this time, I think I would order it with the Designo red leather and the Palladium Silver.  It costs about $2700 more over and above the black leather.

You are leaving for Tampa on or about November 7th - am I correct?  You should be getting your new E400 just in time for your yearly migration south.

Perhaps this year, we can get a chance to spend some time together.  I would be thrilled to spend a few nights up by you - but it would cost you a nice dinner for the pleasure of my royal company!