@graphicguy, It was good that you were honest about the car running ok now. If you had said there were problems and the AB drove it and it was ok, that would have torpedoed your case.
Thx, Exporer.
All of my testimony was true. Can't say the same for Cadillac, though. They made certain I couldn't present the exhaust issue in time for the hearing. They made sure the car was ready in case the arbitrator wanted to drive it. They didn't care one iota about having the car repaired correctly to begin with or how much of an imposition running back and forth to the dealership they put me through.
So, their words about being worried about my safety, my satisfaction were nowhere near the truth.
Might come down to personal principals now. They could offer a cash settlement, keep the car. Assuming carmax would make a decent offer, if GM threw in enough cash ($10k? $20k?) could make it go away that way. Why they would rather, who knows.
Stick...I gave Cadillac every opportunity to "do the right thing". They decided to do battle. OK.....game on.
My other question is what is being communicated between Cadillac, the BBB and the arbitrator? I know they aren't communicating with me right now. I don't know if there's any communications going on between the other parties, though.
Trigger alert--this post is more than 150 characters.
I had to laugh at the coincidence sitting in front of my local UDF, drinking my French vanilla-laced decaf coffee in my 32 oz thermal cup.
Listening to Columbus car show sponsored by a family-owned group of dealership, including Mercedes. A caller complained about his '16 CLA with only 7000 miles not starting after being driven by his wife and parked. Can't even get into the car. Had to call Mercedes' version of AAA twice in the last several days. Caller was really worked up. They tried to suggest lemon law but caller seemed to believe that was suing. He just wanted the car fixed so he could trade it.
It's funny how fast talking the 3 radio guys are when they get a complaint about any brand the sponsor company sells. It was just a computer problem. Document the calls. It's been into the dealership twice already for this. No problem found! LOL Caller used to have a '10 Mercedes and was happy about it. The radio guys were mumbling about how all cars are put together by humans and problems might occur even in their Hondas, Kias, Fords, Mercedes, Acuras, that their stores sell. And they were sure this would be fixed (ain't happened in two service visits and two road calls!).
Then one of the radio guys told about a pickup owner who had a check engine light that wouldn't go away and GM paid him $12,000 for nuisance of the problem. Owner did NOT want a different truck.
May GG be so lucky with a positive outcome similar.
What's so funny is listening to the 3 cars guys, and occasionally a lady who's part of the family who owns the stores and sponsors the show try to minimize problems in certain brands. And then brands they don't sell have the problems from he11. Jeep. GM's. Just ain't got it together. They used to be critical of Fords and then the company bought a Beavercreek, OH, Ford store between Dayton and Xenia.
Car shows should not be sponsored by auto brands or dealerships. A Cincy car radio guy just loves the toyota store where he "buys" his vehicles that sponsors the show. KY and GG and others in Cincy probably know the show.
Yeah...I know the guy you're talking about. He's been around for quite a while.
Geez, how could M-B act like that? I think it speaks volumes about the M-B customer service experience, specifically how they value and treat their customers. That alone is enough to deter me from purchasing one of their vehicles.
I wonder how many car companies play hardball when a problem car makes it to a consumer. A co-worker's mother bought one of the first SLKs sold here - it ended up having tons of problems, and I forget the details, but they had a battle getting the issue resolved. A friend of mine had a Prius C with constant electrical quirks that spent many days in the shop, but not enough for legal lemon status. Toyota fought him tooth and nail, and he'll never buy a Toyota again. I have to wonder about the strategy employed by these corporations.
I guess I am lucky in that I have never had a used or new car with more than occasional quirks, and for the new cars, the dealer was as helpful as I would have expected.
I wonder how many car companies play hardball when a problem car makes it to a consumer. A co-worker's mother bought one of the first SLKs sold here - it ended up having tons of problems, and I forget the details, but they had a battle getting the issue resolved. A friend of mine had a Prius C with constant electrical quirks that spent many days in the shop, but not enough for legal lemon status. Toyota fought him tooth and nail, and he'll never buy a Toyota again. I have to wonder about the strategy employed by these corporations.
I guess I am lucky in that I have never had a used or new car with more than occasional quirks, and for the new cars, the dealer was as helpful as I would have expected.
Given the number of states that felt the need to have some sort of lemon law, I think the answer is most-to-all car companies do not make it easy. Part of it is culture, I'm sure, on their part - cars are not like table lamps where you can return them if you don't like it, because they wear and have steep depreciation. They fall more into the underwear category, use it and it's yours. Part of it is probably due to the sum of money involved. Part of it is likely due to their complexity and the variable experience of the dealer network in being able or willing to fix problems, which is not fully controlled by the manufacturer. Part of it is probably the consumer experience too, where people buy cars in excitement and with emotion, then experience some cognitive dissonance after they have it for a while and want out. Probably a whole lot of other reasons too.
As you say, most people do not have issues to that extent. But I can see where if one did it would be extremely frustrating.
Some states do allow for double or triple damages. I didn't check Ohio specifically. Ohio is not one of the stronger states regarding Lemon Laws.
Funny you say that. The Autoblog link you posted earlier said that Ohio has one of the stronger lemon laws.
I did find it interesting that the example the article used as its poster child was a guy with a Mercedes lemon. After 5 years of litigation he won $482,000 from the courts. But it also says M-B does not consider that matter closed, so more legal fees probably. The M-B spokesperson said "We do not agree with the court's decision to vacate the jury's verdict (which was in favor of Mercedes-Benz) and instead impose a verdict in favor of plaintiff. So we are appealing on the grounds that the trial court abused its discretion by substituting its opinion for that of the jury."
Geez, how could M-B act like that? I think it speaks volumes about the M-B customer service experience, specifically how they value and treat their customers. That alone is enough to deter me from purchasing one of their vehicles.
I sense I am being mocked, but I just can't be too sure.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
No, not mocking you specifically, @28firefighter, and I did not mean any offense. Your words just happened to be some of the ones posted recently that fit this specific example best. There have been lots of statements posted recently that make it sound like one company is unique in all of this. Clearly they are not.
No, not mocking you specifically, @28firefighter, and I did not mean any offense. Your words just happened to be some of the ones posted recently that fit this specific example best. There have been lots of statements posted recently that make it sound like one company is unique in all of this. Clearly they are not.
No offense taken! In fact, I'm flattered I was quoted! Haha.
And to your point, if I or someone I knew had to fight MB or any other brand tooth and nail to get good customer service, I likely would not buy from them, either.
Similarly, I'm 98% sure I know which dealer @jmonroe had issues with, and I wouldn't set foot in there, either.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
It's kind of penny wise, pound foolish. Word of mouth is bigger now than ever, and social media can be destructive. Then again, the execs in charge of this kind of thing aren't exactly paragons of logic or accountability, nor do they tend to be "with it". I know if I had a problem with MB and corporate was being jerky, I'd be airing it all over the place. As a longtime MBCA member, it would be heard there, too.
I do have to wonder about the case where a court overturned a jury verdict. Knowing the amount of untouchable idiot judges out there, it could be a wacky case, but in the long run, I'd wager cheaper to settle and get it over with than fight it.
Given the number of states that felt the need to have some sort of lemon law, I think the answer is most-to-all car companies do not make it easy. Part of it is culture, I'm sure, on their part - cars are not like table lamps where you can return them if you don't like it, because they wear and have steep depreciation. They fall more into the underwear category, use it and it's yours. Part of it is probably due to the sum of money involved. Part of it is likely due to their complexity and the variable experience of the dealer network in being able or willing to fix problems, which is not fully controlled by the manufacturer. Part of it is probably the consumer experience too, where people buy cars in excitement and with emotion, then experience some cognitive dissonance after they have it for a while and want out. Probably a whole lot of other reasons too.
As you say, most people do not have issues to that extent. But I can see where if one did it would be extremely frustrating.
It's kind of penny wise, pound foolish. Word of mouth is bigger now than ever, and social media can be destructive. Then again, the execs in charge of this kind of thing aren't exactly paragons of logic or accountability, nor do they tend to be "with it". I know if I had a problem with MB and corporate was being jerky, I'd be airing it all over the place. As a longtime MBCA member, it would
The only problem is, every brand has its version of XYZMotorssucks.com anti-fan page. There is enough people believing XYZ is Evil Inkarnate, so it all evens out in the companies' minds and they move on on their usual pattern. The differences show up on the margins and in form of market share, but those can be easily explained away by executives, who want to keep the status quo, including their jobs. Infrequency of vehicle purchases does not help, either. We often change brands, models for reasons other than dissatisfaction. It can be lifestyle change, successful marketing efforts of the other team, simple desire to try something different. This all allows execs to keep denying they have a problem, even if they do.
I kind of fault Graphic's dealer too. Did give him a loaner for awhile, but I think they could have possibly pushed on Cadillac harder to get the parts or swap them much earlier in the game. The whole escapade reminds me of GM circa 70's and 80's. Years back I had an Olds that had an electronics nightmare out of the box. After a few attempts to fix the issues, the dealer got GM to allow them to swap the entire computer system out of another car and into mine. It helped, but the car still had problems. Ironically, I had several Ford's as rentals in between while the Olds was down and ended up trading the Olds for a Mercury. My wife and I both had been primarily GM buyers up to then. But Detroit also lost many customers to Japan back in those days and instead of taking on their issues, they lobbied Congress for currency and trade restrictions. Funny thing is all that did was encourage Japan to put in their transplants in the States and Canada, further cutting into Detroit's market. Sometimes you need to think long term.
Trigger alert--this post is more than 150 characters.
I had to laugh at the coincidence sitting in front of my local UDF, drinking my French vanilla-laced decaf coffee in my 32 oz thermal cup.
Listening to Columbus car show sponsored by a family-owned group of dealership, including Mercedes. A caller complained about his '16 CLA with only 7000 miles not starting after being driven by his wife and parked. Can't even get into the car. Had to call Mercedes' version of AAA twice in the last several days. Caller was really worked up. They tried to suggest lemon law but caller seemed to believe that was suing. He just wanted the car fixed so he could trade it.
It's funny how fast talking the 3 radio guys are when they get a complaint about any brand the sponsor company sells. It was just a computer problem. Document the calls. It's been into the dealership twice already for this. No problem found! LOL Caller used to have a '10 Mercedes and was happy about it. The radio guys were mumbling about how all cars are put together by humans and problems might occur even in their Hondas, Kias, Fords, Mercedes, Acuras, that their stores sell. And they were sure this would be fixed (ain't happened in two service visits and two road calls!).
Then one of the radio guys told about a pickup owner who had a check engine light that wouldn't go away and GM paid him $12,000 for nuisance of the problem. Owner did NOT want a different truck.
May GG be so lucky with a positive outcome similar.
What's so funny is listening to the 3 cars guys, and occasionally a lady who's part of the family who owns the stores and sponsors the show try to minimize problems in certain brands. And then brands they don't sell have the problems from he11. Jeep. GM's. Just ain't got it together. They used to be critical of Fords and then the company bought a Beavercreek, OH, Ford store between Dayton and Xenia.
Car shows should not be sponsored by auto brands or dealerships. A Cincy car radio guy just loves the toyota store where he "buys" his vehicles that sponsors the show. KY and GG and others in Cincy probably know the show.
Yeah...I know the guy you're talking about. He's been around for quite a while.
Just an opinion and someone may know more, but generally they give you what the car is actually worth at this time. They could award double or triple damages which I think would be reasonable in this case, but, I doubt that happens very often. If I was the arbitrator, I would certainly award a penalty for putting someone through this, and as punitive damages........at least $10000 - but I think they mostly just try to make you whole...probably not overly generous.
If all this is true, GM has a real incentive to go the limit, they won't be out much more than they would have if they settled, and 80% of the people won't take it this far...they would just dump their lemon on some poor unsuspecting buyer.
I don't know where you're getting they could order double or triple "damages". There is nothing that I've seen indicating an arbitrator has that ability, and I have not heard any accounting of such a thing anyway. The same with you punitive damages. You'd need to go into litigation for that which would take years and lots and lots of legal fees.
You're correct. The most the arbitrator can do is order the vehicle be bought back under the lemon law for the State of Ohio.
Punitive damages, actual "damages" beyond the value of the car? You need to sue. And odds are you wouldn't get them in this case.
Some states do allow for double or triple damages. I didn't check Ohio specifically. Ohio is not one of the stronger states regarding Lemon Laws.
And PA ain't no better than Ohio (at least they weren't in 2011). That's why my attorney BIL told me I would be chasing my tale and losing money trying to sue the dealer to fix the '05 XG 350 and have them pay my attorney fees and court costs.
Why else do you think I went into the 'jmonroe vengeance mode' ? :@
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Some states do allow for double or triple damages. I didn't check Ohio specifically. Ohio is not one of the stronger states regarding Lemon Laws.
Funny you say that. The Autoblog link you posted earlier said that Ohio has one of the stronger lemon laws.
I did find it interesting that the example the article used as its poster child was a guy with a Mercedes lemon. After 5 years of litigation he won $482,000 from the courts. But it also says M-B does not consider that matter closed, so more legal fees probably. The M-B spokesperson said "We do not agree with the court's decision to vacate the jury's verdict (which was in favor of Mercedes-Benz) and instead impose a verdict in favor of plaintiff. So we are appealing on the grounds that the trial court abused its discretion by substituting its opinion for that of the jury."
Geez, how could M-B act like that? I think it speaks volumes about the M-B customer service experience, specifically how they value and treat their customers. That alone is enough to deter me from purchasing one of their vehicles.
1)The autoblog regarding Ohio was from their own attorney general who THINKS Ohio has great Lemon Laws...but, obviously, they don't.
2)I thought about using another example - of which there were several- but, I used the MB one to be fair. In that case the award was about 10X the value of the car and it seems a little questionable how much trouble that guy really had, door locks that didn't work 5 times.
I know all the details about GGs case and no matter what, he wasn't treated properly...I don't know the details of the other case. I did state before, my guess is every company has been charged with the Lemon Law, and I am sure they all would fight it if the could......but, it is how you get to that point that is what I would judge by. GG was completely ignored and treated like he was the problem.....not the car.
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I kind of fault Graphic's dealer too. Did give him a loaner for awhile, but I think they could have possibly pushed on Cadillac harder to get the parts or swap them much earlier in the game. The whole escapade reminds me of GM circa 70's and 80's. Years back I had an Olds that had an electronics nightmare out of the box. After a few attempts to fix the issues, the dealer got GM to allow them to swap the entire computer system out of another car and into mine. It helped, but the car still had problems. Ironically, I had several Ford's as rentals in between while the Olds was down and ended up trading the Olds for a Mercury. My wife and I both had been primarily GM buyers up to then. But Detroit also lost many customers to Japan back in those days and instead of taking on their issues, they lobbied Congress for currency and trade restrictions. Funny thing is all that did was encourage Japan to put in their transplants in the States and Canada, further cutting into Detroit's market. Sometimes you need to think long term.
Very insightful berri. The dealer should have pushed harder to get results....maybe they were stonewalled too though. And that makes the whole GM thing even worse...if the dealers can't get anywhere with head office.
I think you are right about the Asian invasion too....Detroit tried to limit foreign cars, and the foreign companies found ways to get larger, like by introducing new nameplates. MB introduced lower priced models.
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
1)The autoblog regarding Ohio was from their own attorney general who THINKS Ohio has great Lemon Laws...but, obviously, they don't.
No, it was from a Pennsylvania attorney named Silverman who the article describes as a "leading lemon-law attorney".
2)I thought about using another example - of which there were several- but, I used the MB one to be fair. In that case the award was about 10X the value of the car and it seems a little questionable how much trouble that guy really had, door locks that didn't work 5 times.
I know all the details about GGs case and no matter what, he wasn't treated properly...I don't know the details of the other case. I did state before, my guess is every company has been charged with the Lemon Law, and I am sure they all would fight it if the could......but, it is how you get to that point that is what I would judge by. GG was completely ignored and treated like he was the problem.....not the car.
Only those directly involved can really say they know everything about the case, either this case or any other.
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
jmonroe
Try the bourbon chicken at Denny's.
I only recommend it to my best friends.
We're getting ready to leave for dinner now and I ain't going to Denny's. I'm not so sure you aren't trying to get me to ingest the same stuff that has afflicted you and then have me thinking like you. NO thanks, that ain't gonna happen. :@
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So....to answer the question of what I'll do if the arbitration hearing doesn't go in my favor? On to court....hire a lawyer....turn them loose....sue for ALL the expenses and hassle Cadillac has put me through.
I was telling my son last night over dinner while recapping everything that the Cadillac brand has put me through, "for a company who purports to be 'the standard of the world', they're anything but.
They're trying to rebuild their image and reputation. They've been working on it for awhile, now. Yet, their sales keep dropping like a boulder in water. Their reputation is still nowhere near what it is for M-B, BMW, heck even Infiniti, Lexus or Acura. Forget their reputation with me, which is hovering somewhere near that of a Trabant right now.
Personally, if I were running GM, I'd cut even deeper. Chevrolet is really where the company is really making waves. They have developed some of the best trucks and SUVs on the road. They make the Camaro and the Corvette, two of the best sports cars on the road. They are every bit the leader in electric vehicles that Tesla is, and at lower price points. Even their gas cars have been well reviewed and accepted.
Suydam is driving one of Chevrolet's cars (Volt) that is one of the most well reviewed cars I've ever seen. Plus. owners love them from everything I've seen.
Want to have an upscale brand? Buick has a much better rep than Cadillac right now.
What does Cadillac have that can't be replicated elsewhere with other GM brands?
GG, in looking on line about lemon law attorneys, the ads from the good ones said they would not ask for money up front. If they lose, you don't have to pay them. If they win, the loser pays them. So you have nothing to lose. Just find a good one !
GG, I am sure there is plenty of discussion with the other parties (probably the Arb guy and caddy, who is paying the bill). would not surprise me at all if he is asking them how they want to proceed. Maybe a shred of independence involved, but if he sees it being a no choice (in your favor) case, he will let them know, and you will find out because Caddy will hit you up with an offer on Monday before the official ruling comes down.
So, had a nice day today (cloudy but warm), so channeled my inner JMonroe, and did the spring wax job on the RDX. It had been all salted a week back, and paint was looking kinda dingy, and no beading going on. So, washed it good, and did a wax. Sadly, I was short on the good mequires I usually use, so started with some leftover Turtle wax of some kind. Did the roof, then discovered it was harder than heck to get off. So switched and finished with the last of the good stuff. Learned a lesson here I guess. But, came out great. Car is shiny and smooth, and the wife is happy!
GG, I am sure there is plenty of discussion with the other parties (probably the Arb guy and caddy, who is paying the bill). would not surprise me at all if he is asking them how they want to proceed. Maybe a shred of independence involved, but if he sees it being a no choice (in your favor) case, he will let them know, and you will find out because Caddy will hit you up with an offer on Monday before the official ruling comes down.
Makes sense. We'll see.
I haven't used Turtle Wax in a long time. I do remember it being a bear to put on and take off, though.
Houdini.....there seems to be a wealth of attorneys specializing in Lemon Law cases around here. Most say the same thing......they get a win or settlement and the car company, Cadillac, pays. I would imagine they don't take the case and work for free.
We'll see what happens next week before I start down that road.
I feel good about the arbitration hearing. But, as you say, who knows what is going on with Cadillac, the BBB, the arbitrator right now.
1)The autoblog regarding Ohio was from their own attorney general who THINKS Ohio has great Lemon Laws...but, obviously, they don't.
No, it was from a Pennsylvania attorney named Silverman who the article describes as a "leading lemon-law attorney".
2)I thought about using another example - of which there were several- but, I used the MB one to be fair. In that case the award was about 10X the value of the car and it seems a little questionable how much trouble that guy really had, door locks that didn't work 5 times.
I know all the details about GGs case and no matter what, he wasn't treated properly...I don't know the details of the other case. I did state before, my guess is every company has been charged with the Lemon Law, and I am sure they all would fight it if the could......but, it is how you get to that point that is what I would judge by. GG was completely ignored and treated like he was the problem.....not the car.
Ab:
Only those directly involved can really say they know everything about the case, either this case or any other.
I treat GGs case the same way I would if I was watching cable or network news, or reading a newspaper. I am not swayed by the bias of the broadcaster or their opinions....I only go by the known facts. Even though we are only hearing Gigi's side of the story, there are certain facts that lead me to be pretty sure he was not treated properly.
When I had the problem with the Audi I stated the facts, but, everyone only heard my side of the story. I think everyone could figure out the facts and agreed that it seemed Audi was not treating me properly.
In the case of MB the judge overruled the jury and we don't know all the facts. I am not saying MB was right and the customer wrong, but, I think we have to know more of the facts before deciding.
You are defending Cadillac which is fine, but what could possibly be Cadillacs reason for leaving Gigi hanging for 3 months, with no communication or information? And, why would you sit back and take it while the warranty clock is ticking away? And why would a consumer have confidence in the brand if they don't seem to care?
Maybe all brands would be the same, but, I only know first hand the primary facts of this particular case, and they give me no confidence in the brand, no matter how good the reviews are. If you think GG isn't presenting the facts fairly, I would imagine the GM lurkers here would report it and he would be in a regular court defending himself by now.
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
jmonroe
Try the bourbon chicken at Denny's.
I only recommend it to my best friends.
We're getting ready to leave for dinner now and I ain't going to Denny's. I'm not so sure you aren't trying to get me to ingest the same stuff that has afflicted you and then have me thinking like you. NO thanks, that ain't gonna happen. :@
jmonroe
Bon appetit.
Good food low in carbohydrates but containing vegetables and low fat non-red meat clears the brain so you tend to write shorter posts.
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
jmonroe
It came in an email from a retired elementary teacher friend of my wife. She passes along some really nice ones, often pictorial in nature. I'm surprised she can use email, but she's really gotten into it the last few years. Her previous one was about woodies, and had a lot of pictures of the cars. I was tempted to put some up for folks to identify.
Where the hell did you find that? Still LMAO.
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
jmonroe
Try the bourbon chicken at Denny's.
I only recommend it to my best friends.
We're getting ready to leave for dinner now and I ain't going to Denny's. I'm not so sure you aren't trying to get me to ingest the same stuff that has afflicted you and then have me thinking like you. NO thanks, that ain't gonna happen. :@
jmonroe
Bon appetit.
Good food low in carbohydrates but containing vegetables and low fat non-red meat clears the brain so you tend to write shorter posts.
It sure hasn't worked on you, driver!
When I see shorter posts from you, I'll know for sure about the food you eat and it's affect on your writing style!
I wouldn't be surprised if they use the arbitrator just to assess your chances of winning in court. If he thinks you would win, they make an offer...but I could be wrong !
Maybe all brands would be the same, but, I only know first hand the primary facts of this particular case, and they give me no confidence in the brand, no matter how good the reviews are. If you think GG isn't presenting the facts fairly, I would imagine the GM lurkers here would report it and he would be in a regular court defending himself by now.
I was a little worried there when you were referring to GG as "Gigi" - wasn't sure if you were talking about your dog or our friend in Ohio.
Just to be clear - my only concern is when I see people extrapolating what they are reading here into generalizations about Cadillac, GM, the US auto industry in general, all auto manufacturers, the BBB, whatever. There are some very big leaps being taken, not just from the few typically bombastic members.
GG, if nothing else, if this decision goes against you, and the process smells to high heaven, you will have a heck of a story to dump on the AGs office.
Maybe all brands would be the same, but, I only know first hand the primary facts of this particular case, and they give me no confidence in the brand, no matter how good the reviews are. If you think GG isn't presenting the facts fairly, I would imagine the GM lurkers here would report it and he would be in a regular court defending himself by now.
I was a little worried there when you were referring to GG as "Gigi" - wasn't sure if you were talking about your dog or our friend in Ohio.
Just to be clear - my only concern is when I see people extrapolating what they are reading here into generalizations about Cadillac, GM, the US auto industry in general, all auto manufacturers, the BBB, whatever. There are some very big leaps being taken, not just from the few typically bombastic members.
I slipped and used Gigi instead of GG, sorry to our friend GG. Maybe I can plead that is the Canadian spelling? I really didn't mean anything negative.....I like both of them.
We sometimes get carried away, maybe because we can identify with our friend in his battle against the big bad huge car company. We are like watching our favorite team, it is David and Goliath and we want him to win just as we want to win in these situations. We want justice for GG and so we are siding with him and want him to prevail. If GG wins this battle we all win, in a way.
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
jmonroe
Try the bourbon chicken at Denny's.
I only recommend it to my best friends.
We're getting ready to leave for dinner now and I ain't going to Denny's. I'm not so sure you aren't trying to get me to ingest the same stuff that has afflicted you and then have me thinking like you. NO thanks, that ain't gonna happen. :@
jmonroe
Bon appetit.
Good food low in carbohydrates but containing vegetables and low fat non-red meat clears the brain so you tend to write shorter posts.
It sure hasn't worked on you, driver!
When I see shorter posts from you, I'll know for sure about the food you eat and it's affect on your writing style!
Most of my posts are short and to the point..........I only write long ones when I have to explain a point as clearly as possible. I don't want anyone to miss a very important or clever concept.
GG, if nothing else, if this decision goes against you, and the process smells to high heaven, you will have a heck of a story to dump on the AGs office.
It sounds like the AG has sloughed off the Lemon Law process to the BBB and now they have done their part. Some other states seem to care a lot more and actually give the consumer a much fairer deal.
Why wouldn't a company go to arbitration? If they win they get off selling a lemon, if they lose they pay out what they would have had to pay out anyway....the value of the car at that time. It's like heads I win, tails you lose..
GG, I am sure there is plenty of discussion with the other parties (probably the Arb guy and caddy, who is paying the bill). would not surprise me at all if he is asking them how they want to proceed. Maybe a shred of independence involved, but if he sees it being a no choice (in your favor) case, he will let them know, and you will find out because Caddy will hit you up with an offer on Monday before the official ruling comes down.
Makes sense. We'll see.
I haven't used Turtle Wax in a long time. I do remember it being a bear to put on and take off, though.
Houdini.....there seems to be a wealth of attorneys specializing in Lemon Law cases around here. Most say the same thing......they get a win or settlement and the car company, Cadillac, pays. I would imagine they don't take the case and work for free.
We'll see what happens next week before I start down that road.
I feel good about the arbitration hearing. But, as you say, who knows what is going on with Cadillac, the BBB, the arbitrator right now.
I still swear by the Turtle wash&wax stuff. Shines as good or better than the multiple step stuff and is a heck of a lot easier.
Negatives: probably doesn't last past the first rain and leaves a haze on the glass. If you wash every week and have a good glass cleaner it's great.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think the bottle I had was pretty old. May have been decaying or something. In the trash now.
The Meguires tech wax or cleaner wax (I have used both) does a nice job. Can put it on the entire car at once, instead of doing small sections. Buffs off nicely, and seems to do a great job making it smooth and shiny, and lasts well (I do wax jobs (close your eyes JM) only 2x a year).
I've been using Meguiars Ultimate liquid wax, spray wax, and spray detailer for a few years now. Very easy application, which was the primary attraction. I use the liquid wax every roughly other month, and can get a couple years out of a bottle. I use spray wax every 2-3 weeks, and detailer weekly.
On the old car, I use a container of Griots spray wax that I won, and yearly I have been using Meguiars carnauba paste wax. This year I am going to try a German product called "Klasse" to see how it works, as the paste wax can be a lot of elbow grease.
I think the bottle I had was pretty old. May have been decaying or something. In the trash now.
The Meguires tech wax or cleaner wax (I have used both) does a nice job. Can put it on the entire car at once, instead of doing small sections. Buffs off nicely, and seems to do a great job making it smooth and shiny, and lasts well (I do wax jobs (close your eyes JM) only 2x a year).
Hi all. Had to be rushed to the ER at Boca Regional Hospital. Horrible pain in my upper right abdomen. They just finished a CT-Scan of my abdomen and are giving me pain killers IV. I hope it isn't anything too serious. I woke up at 5:00 AM in horrific pain.
Well, CT-Scan came back showing no difference from the one thy did in October. That's good. Blood tests were not indicative of an infection or anything serious.
They are considering keeping me overnight and hopefully letting me go home with pain meds. They do not know what is causing the severe pain.
Well, CT-Scan came back showing no difference from the one thy did in October. That's good. Blood tests were not indicative of an infection or anything serious.
They are considering keeping me overnight and hopefully letting me go home with pain meds. They do not know what is causing the severe pain.
Hang in there, Mike. This, too, shall pass.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
It's kind of penny wise, pound foolish. Word of mouth is bigger now than ever, and social media can be destructive. Then again, the execs in charge of this kind of thing aren't exactly paragons of logic or accountability, nor do they tend to be "with it". I know if I had a problem with MB and corporate was being jerky, I'd be airing it all over the place. As a longtime MBCA member, it would
The only problem is, every brand has its version of XYZMotorssucks.com anti-fan page. There is enough people believing XYZ is Evil Inkarnate, so it all evens out in the companies' minds and they move on on their usual pattern. The differences show up on the margins and in form of market share, but those can be easily explained away by executives, who want to keep the status quo, including their jobs. Infrequency of vehicle purchases does not help, either. We often change brands, models for reasons other than dissatisfaction. It can be lifestyle change, successful marketing efforts of the other team, simple desire to try something different. This all allows execs to keep denying they have a problem, even if they do.
Sounds like you are describing Chrysler in the 90's and 00's. They have some convinced they were doing all hunky-dory until Daimler came around to "screw" it all up. It takes time for the "word" to get out.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Well, CT-Scan came back showing no difference from the one thy did in October. That's good. Blood tests were not indicative of an infection or anything serious.
They are considering keeping me overnight and hopefully letting me go home with pain meds. They do not know what is causing the severe pain.
Ugh. Sorry to hear, Mike. Nothing is more frustrating than hearing "everything looks normal" when you are in pain.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They decided to admit me - lots of tests - liquid diet - pain killers, etc. I wouldn't mind the liquid diet if FedEx delivered the "liquid" from Kentucky or Tennessee- but broth and apple juice are not my favorite "cups of tea", if you get my drift!
Lil Darling, then and now. Same retired teacher sent my wife this great twin video page. The Diamonds from 1957 and 2004. If you don't remember 1957, this may not impress you, but the group still has "It."
Many of the groups brought back on public TV for fundraisers have to have the octave changed for certain parts, this group still sounds much the same.
Tom Hanks' father is the lead singer on the left.
Hope this will brighten up Abaco's morning along with the morning for many others of my generation here.
They decided to admit me - lots of tests - liquid diet - pain killers, etc. I wouldn't mind the liquid diet if FedEx delivered the "liquid" from Kentucky or Tennessee- but broth and apple juice are not my favorite "cups of tea", if you get my drift!
Get well wishes sent your way and hope you feel back to your normal self like yesterday!
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
Comments
All of my testimony was true. Can't say the same for Cadillac, though. They made certain I couldn't present the exhaust issue in time for the hearing. They made sure the car was ready in case the arbitrator wanted to drive it. They didn't care one iota about having the car repaired correctly to begin with or how much of an imposition running back and forth to the dealership they put me through.
So, their words about being worried about my safety, my satisfaction were nowhere near the truth.
My other question is what is being communicated between Cadillac, the BBB and the arbitrator? I know they aren't communicating with me right now. I don't know if there's any communications going on between the other parties, though.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess I am lucky in that I have never had a used or new car with more than occasional quirks, and for the new cars, the dealer was as helpful as I would have expected.
As you say, most people do not have issues to that extent. But I can see where if one did it would be extremely frustrating.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
And to your point, if I or someone I knew had to fight MB or any other brand tooth and nail to get good customer service, I likely would not buy from them, either.
Similarly, I'm 98% sure I know which dealer @jmonroe had issues with, and I wouldn't set foot in there, either.
I do have to wonder about the case where a court overturned a jury verdict. Knowing the amount of untouchable idiot judges out there, it could be a wacky case, but in the long run, I'd wager cheaper to settle and get it over with than fight it.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2016 Cadillac CTS-1998 Mustang Cobra Convertible
Should be 2016 Cadillac in limbo....etc
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And PA ain't no better than Ohio (at least they weren't in 2011). That's why my attorney BIL told me I would be chasing my tale and losing money trying to sue the dealer to fix the '05 XG 350 and have them pay my attorney fees and court costs.
Why else do you think I went into the 'jmonroe vengeance mode' ? :@
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2)I thought about using another example - of which there were several- but, I used the MB one to be fair. In that case the award was about 10X the value of the car and it seems a little questionable how much trouble that guy really had, door locks that didn't work 5 times.
I know all the details about GGs case and no matter what, he wasn't treated properly...I don't know the details of the other case.
I did state before, my guess is every company has been charged with the Lemon Law, and I am sure they all would fight it if the could......but, it is how you get to that point that is what I would judge by. GG was completely ignored and treated like he was the problem.....not the car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mrs. j and I are getting ready to go out for dinner and if we don't get an experience like that I'm suing...for 2 dinners. But first I better check the PA Disgruntled Customers Restaurant Laws. :@
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think you are right about the Asian invasion too....Detroit tried to limit foreign cars, and the foreign companies found ways to get larger, like by introducing new nameplates. MB introduced lower priced models.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I only recommend it to my best friends.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I haven't used Turtle Wax in a long time. I do remember it being a bear to put on and take off, though.
Houdini.....there seems to be a wealth of attorneys specializing in Lemon Law cases around here. Most say the same thing......they get a win or settlement and the car company, Cadillac, pays. I would imagine they don't take the case and work for free.
We'll see what happens next week before I start down that road.
I feel good about the arbitration hearing. But, as you say, who knows what is going on with Cadillac, the BBB, the arbitrator right now.
I treat GGs case the same way I would if I was watching cable or network news, or reading a newspaper. I am not swayed by the bias of the broadcaster or their opinions....I only go by the known facts. Even though we are only hearing Gigi's side of the story, there are certain facts that lead me to be pretty sure he was not treated properly.
When I had the problem with the Audi I stated the facts, but, everyone only heard my side of the story. I think everyone could figure out the facts and agreed that it seemed Audi was not treating me properly.
In the case of MB the judge overruled the jury and we don't know all the facts. I am not saying MB was right and the customer wrong, but, I think we have to know more of the facts before deciding.
You are defending Cadillac which is fine, but what could possibly be Cadillacs reason for leaving Gigi hanging for 3 months, with no communication or information? And, why would you sit back and take it while the warranty clock is ticking away? And why would a consumer have confidence in the brand if they don't seem to care?
Maybe all brands would be the same, but, I only know first hand the primary facts of this particular case, and they give me no confidence in the brand, no matter how good the reviews are. If you think GG isn't presenting the facts fairly, I would imagine the GM lurkers here would report it and he would be in a regular court defending himself by now.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good food low in carbohydrates but containing vegetables and low fat non-red meat clears the brain so you tend to write shorter posts.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When I see shorter posts from you, I'll know for sure about the food you eat and it's affect on your writing style!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Just to be clear - my only concern is when I see people extrapolating what they are reading here into generalizations about Cadillac, GM, the US auto industry in general, all auto manufacturers, the BBB, whatever. There are some very big leaps being taken, not just from the few typically bombastic members.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
We sometimes get carried away, maybe because we can identify with our friend in his battle against the big bad huge car company. We are like watching our favorite team, it is David and Goliath and we want him to win just as we want to win in these situations. We want justice for GG and so we are siding with him and want him to prevail. If GG wins this battle we all win, in a way.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When I see shorter posts from you, I'll know for sure about the food you eat and it's affect on your writing style!
Most of my posts are short and to the point..........I only write long ones when I have to explain a point as clearly as possible. I don't want anyone to miss a very important or clever concept.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Why wouldn't a company go to arbitration? If they win they get off selling a lemon, if they lose they pay out what they would have had to pay out anyway....the value of the car at that time. It's like heads I win, tails you lose..
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Negatives: probably doesn't last past the first rain and leaves a haze on the glass. If you wash every week and have a good glass cleaner it's great.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The Meguires tech wax or cleaner wax (I have used both) does a nice job. Can put it on the entire car at once, instead of doing small sections. Buffs off nicely, and seems to do a great job making it smooth and shiny, and lasts well (I do wax jobs (close your eyes JM) only 2x a year).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My uncle used to own one of those. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant_601#
2018 430i Gran Coupe
On the old car, I use a container of Griots spray wax that I won, and yearly I have been using Meguiars carnauba paste wax. This year I am going to try a German product called "Klasse" to see how it works, as the paste wax can be a lot of elbow grease.
Just getting tired of always getting sick.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
They are considering keeping me overnight and hopefully letting me go home with pain meds. They do not know what is causing the severe pain.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Many of the groups brought back on public TV for fundraisers have to have the octave changed for certain parts, this group still sounds much the same.
Tom Hanks' father is the lead singer on the left.
Hope this will brighten up Abaco's morning along with the morning for many others of my generation here.
Twin video:
http://www.flixxy.com/the-diamonds-little-darlin-1957-2004.htm
Separate video links:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech