@graphicguy - I actually gave a fist pump to the screen when I read your post. Glad to hear you stuck through the process to the end.
Wash your hands of the Cadillac, and enjoy the Infiniti and Ford every day (the Ford more as the weather gets nicer).
One question - how are they determining the cost of your time on all the travel back and forth to the dealership? Your salary divided by 2080 hours? I'm curious about this aspect of the agreement.
28, was discussing your X1 deal with my wife yesterday, just chatting about what I would do at year end. That came up in terms of if I lease, how nice do I go? And the answer was, if I could stumble upon a deal like yours, we would be getting a new main fancy car, relegating hers to 2nd car status.
Which, in my home, means I would get her old car and she would get the new one !
Good news GG. Caddy must have known for a while this would be the outcome.. I wonder if they just have a blanket "no settlement" policy? In any case, nice windfall for you. Lots of hassle, but a couple of years free driving!
Enjoy the Infiniti. BTW, how is that going? Still happy with it?
How awesome is that @graphicguy! Great news. You really hung in there. I'm happy to hear that at least in this case arbitration isn't biased in the corporate direction.
LOL @ bias. @graphicguy lemon-law case was a clear-cut textbook example of a 100% lemon through and through.
If the decision went any less favorably, it couldn't be seen as bias, but outright fraud. If he couldn't win, no one can win.
It is like when I witnessed a person who credibly proved in court that his speedometer was malfunctioning leading to his speeding ticket. If that didn't get him off I knew right away no one was going to win their case in that courtroom short of a dismissal for lack of prosecution (a no-show on the cop's part is the only way to win).
I understand that if you show your speedometer was reading 5 MPH lower than actual speed, and you testify you were going the speed limit, you were indeed speeding. However, it doesn't pass the "absurdity" test as has come up with a frozen truck case on our most recent Supreme Court nominee.
A very wise published decision in CA once said:
"Traffic rules account for most of the contact by average citizens with law enforcement and the courts. Enforcement of laws which are widely perceived as unreasonable and unfair generates disrespect and even contempt toward those who make and enforce those laws." - California Appellate Court, People vs. Goulet.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Awesome gg, justice actually can be served after all. Just think of the resources they consumed to fight something which appeared (to most here) to be an easy case.
28, timing might be on my side. Late last December they had a killer 328 service loaner lease on hand, but was not my time. But, I likely will be shopping the week of Christmas into NY this year, so will be primed for an end of season jackpoy deal!
So.....a day early.....and we have an Arbitration decision.
Not going to keep you in suspense as I had to sift through about 5 pages of verbiage to get to it.
Cadillac has to buy back the CTS. No fees for mileage, nor wear and tear (per the arbitrators inspection). Cadillac has 14 days after I sign the decision (which I'll do today and overnight it back to them) to send me a check. All taxes, licensing fees, purchase price, and amounts for time spent traveling back and forth to dealership and for the day I had to take off for the hearing will be reimbursed in full.
In essence, the arbitrator followed my line of thinking....the wiring was bad from the factory and delivered to me faulty from the very first day I drove it off the dealer's lot. It was a safety issue and as such, returning it only partially fixed was a pretty big faux pas in the arbitrator's mind. And finally, being out of commission for nearly 3 months, the lemon law was invoked.
Lots of paperwork attached to the decision. I'll look it all over carefully, but I just gave you the high points.
Sincerely, thanks to you all for hanging with me and offering support.
While the decision is just and fair, I am very pleasantly surprised and pleased with the arbitrator. My faith in mankind has been restored !! Congrats. If Cadillac was wanting and expecting a fair decision, I can't imagine why they didn't do this in the first place. What were they thinking ??
OK guys since we are at the start of the car waxing season, to save your arms try this http://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-random-orbital-polisher-61898.html or an equivalent. I have the Sears version that I bought back in the 70's that is pretty much like this one but since Sears is gone now you can't get one like I have.
I bought one of these a few years ago for each of my sons. Not because I'm a great father but kinda like self defense because I was tired of them borrowing mine and I was afraid it would burn up from too much use. Both of them said it worked just as well and since both of them had used mine many times they should know. Get several terry cloth or micro fiber bonnets and your good for many happy wax jobs. Just change them often when they load up with the rubbed off wax. I also use it to apply the wax. It's a slow speed random obit unit so there is no chance of burning the paint with the wet wax or even mild cleaners prior to waxing.
While you are at it, get the pneumatic adjustable roller seat shown in the lower box (far right) of the link page. I've said this before, I wouldn't even think of doing a wax job anymore without this roller seat. It saves the back when doing the sides, clear down to the rocker panels. Even makes waxing fun. Just be careful, as you scoot around, not to run into the extension cord. Quick stops, just like while driving your car, can be harmful.
Just thought I'd pass along a fun tip for the upcoming waxing season and just in time for most of you guys except @stickguy who jumped the gun and couldn't wait to show off his handy work to Mrs. Stick.
jmonroe
I now know how you guys keep your cars so beautiful and gleaming from grille to tailpipes. Me? I drive to the Macy's parking garage at Boca Town Center Mall where I hand the key to my car to Jesus along with $50.00 and 2 hours later and a "voila" or two, my 740Li is beautiful and gleaming, just like your cars. He uses Maguair's products.
The car is first hand washed, dried and then he applies the wax. All of the applications are done by hand - no machines or buffers.
$50.00 for full interior/exterior wash and then hand waxed, tires cleaned and gleamed. I usually give him a $7.50 tip. For just a wash, it's $20.00.
I usually get a bit sweated up reaching for my wallet and handing him the money and thinking about how hard I worked to get the car washed and/or waxed, but I love my car and am willing to do whatever it takes to keep it "up to snuff" so to speak. But it's worth every drop of sweat I excrete on behalf of my secret lover!
So what you are saying is that for 50 bucks Jesus works miracles on your car?
You could say that Mike's car is safe in the arms of Jesus!
28, timing might be on my side. Late last December they had a killer 328 service loaner lease on hand, but was not my time. But, I likely will be shopping the week of Christmas into NY this year, so will be primed for an end of season jackpoy deal!
And, with the new residual rules going into effect for the 2018 BMW model year, those 2017's might be an even better deal come holiday time.
Could have saved themselves a lot of time and money probably. Before this all snowballed (say, month 2). Bet GG would have taken a replacement car instead.
28, timing might be on my side. Late last December they had a killer 328 service loaner lease on hand, but was not my time. But, I likely will be shopping the week of Christmas into NY this year, so will be primed for an end of season jackpoy deal!
And, with the new residual rules going into effect for the 2018 BMW model year, those 2017's might be an even better deal come holiday time.
I have no idea what the rules are. Can you elaborate? But I am fine with some good luck for a change. I will make contact with salesguy early in December to see what they got, and let him know what to keep an eye out for me.
I have really become lazy when it comes to waxing our cars. The 2003 CRV we gave our son last year has usually been garaged and I think I maybe waxed it three times since it was new. Modern cars have clearcoat finishes that have just about done away with the need for constant waxing. After a wash, the 14 year old CRV sparkles like it did when new.
Does anyone remember Blue Coral? Now, THAT was an ALL DAY assignment but the results always looked great! A local Detail Shop used to charge 40.00 and they would throw about four " Jesus" type guys on it and it took the better part of the day!
It is like when I witnessed a person who credibly proved in court that his speedometer was malfunctioning leading to his speeding ticket. If that didn't get him off I knew right away no one was going to win their case in that courtroom short of a dismissal for lack of prosecution (a no-show on the cop's part is the only way to win).
See, now I don't understand how that can be a credible excuse. It is a driver's obligation to ensure their vehicle is working properly. The person actually should have gotten an additional ticket on top of the speeding ticket for not maintaining his/her vehicle.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It is like when I witnessed a person who credibly proved in court that his speedometer was malfunctioning leading to his speeding ticket. If that didn't get him off I knew right away no one was going to win their case in that courtroom short of a dismissal for lack of prosecution (a no-show on the cop's part is the only way to win).
See, now I don't understand how that can be a credible excuse. It is a driver's obligation to ensure their vehicle is working properly. The person actually should have gotten an additional ticket on top of the speeding ticket for not maintaining his/her vehicle.
ha, I'll buy perhaps getting a "fix-it" ticket for the bad speedometer, but I think he should have been let off the hook for the speeding ticket. I didn't hear any testimony that his speed was unreasonable or unsafe, and I recall it being for a marginal amount over the speed limit (hence the 5 MPH). 5 MPH is so little that the average speed of traffic was either probably faster (most likely 85% percentile speeds would be higher), or at least the same pace, giving no indication to him that something was malfunctioning in his vehicle.
Also, I'd like to know that the owner/driver was negligent in driving a run-down vehicle. Perhaps his speedometer wasn't broken for very long, perhaps even it started malfunctioning the day of the ticket. Hard to blame the guy for that. I can't recall if this was a basic speed law or maximum speed law case though.
I think it's pretty harsh when someone wasn't knowingly deliberately speeding to give them a speeding ticket.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
GG congratulations....you fought the mighty GM and came out a winner....truly a David vs Goliath contest.
I think stick is right....GMs policy is to fight any claim........they think they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and if they give in others will do the same. But, they played it wrong....very wrong. If they had given GG the value of the car they could have taken it back and resold it.....now it is branded a lemon.
And, the funny part is they chose the arbitrator. Imagine if the arbitrator was chosen by someone else. GM might not choose him ever again.
Seriously though, I am glad that he was fair and it was quite a victory....way to hang in there GG.
28, timing might be on my side. Late last December they had a killer 328 service loaner lease on hand, but was not my time. But, I likely will be shopping the week of Christmas into NY this year, so will be primed for an end of season jackpoy deal!
And, with the new residual rules going into effect for the 2018 BMW model year, those 2017's might be an even better deal come holiday time.
But 2018s are much better packaged than 2017s. At least, as far as I'm concerned. It may be a wash if you option your '18 reasonably. BTW, from what I read, 2017 330 has already a hard cap on residuals, regardless of options.
It is like when I witnessed a person who credibly proved in court that his speedometer was malfunctioning leading to his speeding ticket. If that didn't get him off I knew right away no one was going to win their case in that courtroom short of a dismissal for lack of prosecution (a no-show on the cop's part is the only way to win).
I think it's pretty harsh when someone wasn't knowingly deliberately speeding to give them a speeding ticket.
Ignorance or malfunctioning equipment is no excuse for breaking the law. If your friend has a problem he can sue the car manufacturer. The courts can't road test everyone's car to see how accurate the speedometer is.
BMW has put the kibosh on the new residual rules for 2018 apparently.
It would have created tiered residuals within each model for varying package levels. The goal, I imagine, was to normalize the lease end value of highly optioned cars where those options don't necessarily increase the car's value at lease end. Effectively it limited how much certain option packages could be residualized for a la Toyota.
But, like I said, they yanked it.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
So.....a day early.....and we have an Arbitration decision.
Not going to keep you in suspense as I had to sift through about 5 pages of verbiage to get to it.
Cadillac has to buy back the CTS. No fees for mileage, nor wear and tear (per the arbitrators inspection). Cadillac has 14 days after I sign the decision (which I'll do today and overnight it back to them) to send me a check. All taxes, licensing fees, purchase price, and amounts for time spent traveling back and forth to dealership and for the day I had to take off for the hearing will be reimbursed in full.
In essence, the arbitrator followed my line of thinking....the wiring was bad from the factory and delivered to me faulty from the very first day I drove it off the dealer's lot. It was a safety issue and as such, returning it only partially fixed was a pretty big faux pas in the arbitrator's mind. And finally, being out of commission for nearly 3 months, the lemon law was invoked.
Lots of paperwork attached to the decision. I'll look it all over carefully, but I just gave you the high points.
Sincerely, thanks to you all for hanging with me and offering support.
While the decision is just and fair, I am very pleasantly surprised and pleased with the arbitrator. My faith in mankind has been restored !! Congrats. If Cadillac was wanting and expecting a fair decision, I can't imagine why they didn't do this in the first place. What were they thinking ??
Way to go! I once worked for a big company that got stubborn. Long complicated story but I told them to basically forgive a 10,000 debt. The CEO at the time got stubborn and told me " If we do that we are opening the door and EVERYBODY will leave owing us money" So it went to court. FIVE WEEKS in court. I have no idea what we paid in expenses and legal fees only to have a bleeding heart jury award the person over a half million dollars. A big company can NOT win against a jury!
It is like when I witnessed a person who credibly proved in court that his speedometer was malfunctioning leading to his speeding ticket. If that didn't get him off I knew right away no one was going to win their case in that courtroom short of a dismissal for lack of prosecution (a no-show on the cop's part is the only way to win).
I think it's pretty harsh when someone wasn't knowingly deliberately speeding to give them a speeding ticket.
Ignorance or malfunctioning equipment is no excuse for breaking the law. If your friend has a problem he can sue the car manufacturer. The courts can't road test everyone's car to see how accurate the speedometer is.
I know ignorance of the law isn't a defense, but malfunctioning equipment seems to be another matter to me.
That is why we have "insurance point-less fix-it tickets." Now if someone used a broken speedo to drive 100 MPH down the highway, that would be different, but this guy seemed to actually genuinely attempt to follow the law.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
RR The thinking is, when you have a BMW that doesn't shake, leave it alone.
In the 80s I took two cars in for tire rotations....both times the tires wore out very soon afterwards.
I have not had tires rotated ever since. I would rather let the front ones wear out, replace them, and buy two new tires at a time instead of rotating them. I think the tires get used to wear they are, and they start to wear at a faster rate when they are rotated. But, that's just this layman's opinion.
At least you are honest about that being your "layman's opinion" because that statement makes no technical sense whatsoever.
Now will you stop eating that Denny's Bourbon Chicken?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Michaell....at the arbitration hearing, one of the questions the abitrator asked was the amount of time I had spent taking the car to and from the dealership. I came up with an hourly figure (I stated 10 hours, including waiting around for a service write up, etc). I had mentioned later in the hearing, off-handedly, that I took the day off for the hearing. No way he would know my salary, but he pegged my total time to be worth $1,200 in the decision.
Stick....Really like the Q50. Then again, I've always liked the G3x that came before it, too. I just couldn't swing a deal on one.
It's comfy, fast, makes good sounds, handles well, good steering, rides well, nice amount of lux, nice stereo. Nothing I can complain about so far....not even a squeak or a rattle.
I'm getting about 23 MPG in mixed driving, which is about par for sports sedans these days. I'm not an MPG hound, so not sure what I'd get on the highway, but I'm pleased with it. Drivetrain still has less than 1,000 miles and I've kept me foot in it a goodly amount of time, so all-in-all, MPG is good.
Again, I can't thank you guys enough for your encouragement.
It is like when I witnessed a person who credibly proved in court that his speedometer was malfunctioning leading to his speeding ticket. If that didn't get him off I knew right away no one was going to win their case in that courtroom short of a dismissal for lack of prosecution (a no-show on the cop's part is the only way to win).
I think it's pretty harsh when someone wasn't knowingly deliberately speeding to give them a speeding ticket.
Ignorance or malfunctioning equipment is no excuse for breaking the law. If your friend has a problem he can sue the car manufacturer. The courts can't road test everyone's car to see how accurate the speedometer is.
I know ignorance of the law isn't a defense, but malfunctioning equipment seems to be another matter to me.
That is why we have "insurance point-less fix-it tickets." Now if someone used a broken speedo to drive 100 MPH down the highway, that would be different, but this guy seemed to actually genuinely attempt to follow the law.
Don't think so. It is the obligation of the operator to insure that his vehicle is in good working order. Same as if you were a sailor and you put your boat on the rocks due to a faulty compass.
Question for the sales dudes (although anyone is welcome to chime in)
In your dealings with customers did you ever have someone balk because you met their price without a fight?
A woman at work was all excited about looking at a 2012 Hyundai Elantra with 32000 miles, $12995. She said she would buy at $10,000. Went to the dealer and he met her price. Suddenly, she's not sure and goes to leave. Salesman asks what she thinks would be fair (indicating more wiggle room). She walks out and now says she's not sure she wants it.
I don't get it.
Part of being a good negotiator is knowing when you've won a good deal, and pulling the trigger.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Motorcycle project is coming along---we're getting close to lift off! Seat's being redone, still hunting for the correct horn, tail light bracket is being painted. Also the clutch is too stiff---may need to take that apart and replace the springs.
From boxes of parts to nice driver in about 5 months of part-time work:
Looks like some very nice work to me.
One question...how are you going to get a big beautiful German Shepherd to fit behind you on that seat?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Motorcycle project is coming along---we're getting close to lift off!
Nice!
Back in the '60s all I had for transportation was a motorcycle, until I was 20, when I determined that if I continued to ride in the Phoenix metro area it was only a matter of when, not if. Earlier, I'd ridden in rural areas and loved it, very much. I lusted after the motor you're rebuilding, along with certain BSAs and the odd Ducati.
I'm sure you'll love it. Please continue to post progress.
Question for the sales dudes (although anyone is welcome to chime in)
In your dealings with customers did you ever have someone balk because you met their price without a fight?
A woman at work was all excited about looking at a 2012 Hyundai Elantra with 32000 miles, $12995. She said she would buy at $10,000. Went to the dealer and he met her price. Suddenly, she's not sure and goes to leave. Salesman asks what she thinks would be fair (indicating more wiggle room). She walks out and now says she's not sure she wants it.
I don't get it.
Part of being a good negotiator is knowing when you've won a good deal, and pulling the trigger.
That was the salesperson's fault and the fault of the manager at the desk.
If someone had offered me 3000.00 less than the asking price for a used car I would have expressed a lot of doubt that that off would be accepted and for good reason. I would have suggested that we look at lesser priced cars if, in fact that were her budget. Had she persisted I would have told her that I would be very happy tp present any kind of offer she had in mind including the 10,000 she had in mind. I would have MADE SURE she had an iron clad commitment to buy the car at that price! That was the salesperson's mistake! I would have said...I think we both know it's going to take more than this but let's give it a try" I would have written WILL BUY AND DRIVE HOME TODAY and had her sign it. If there was any hesitation then I knew I had no commitment and I wouldn't have presented the offer. I may have even said..." Hey, I'l offer less than that if you'ld like" The Sales Manager should have taken the 10,000 offer and countered. By not doing that, that woman thought she was leaving money on the table of that "something" was wrong.
RR The thinking is, when you have a BMW that doesn't shake, leave it alone.
In the 80s I took two cars in for tire rotations....both times the tires wore out very soon afterwards.
I have not had tires rotated ever since. I would rather let the front ones wear out, replace them, and buy two new tires at a time instead of rotating them. I think the tires get used to wear they are, and they start to wear at a faster rate when they are rotated. But, that's just this layman's opinion.
At least you are honest about that being your "layman's opinion" because that statement makes no technical sense whatsoever.
Now will you stop eating that Denny's Bourbon Chicken?
jmonroe
Makes no technical sense but it works for me. Like I said, as soon as I did a tire rotation my tires wore out with flat spots and uneven wear, twice. If I leave them put the fronts go first and I replace them with new tires. At the time I could afford replacing 2 tires instead of 4 a lot better anyways.
I have a friend who does know a lot about cars, and he came to the same conclusion completely independent of my experience.
The experts sometimes think what seems to make sense technically is the best solution, this time the novice is the one who knows better.
So.....a day early.....and we have an Arbitration decision.
Not going to keep you in suspense as I had to sift through about 5 pages of verbiage to get to it.
Cadillac has to buy back the CTS. No fees for mileage, nor wear and tear (per the arbitrators inspection). Cadillac has 14 days after I sign the decision (which I'll do today and overnight it back to them) to send me a check. All taxes, licensing fees, purchase price, and amounts for time spent traveling back and forth to dealership and for the day I had to take off for the hearing will be reimbursed in full.
In essence, the arbitrator followed my line of thinking....the wiring was bad from the factory and delivered to me faulty from the very first day I drove it off the dealer's lot. It was a safety issue and as such, returning it only partially fixed was a pretty big faux pas in the arbitrator's mind. And finally, being out of commission for nearly 3 months, the lemon law was invoked.
Lots of paperwork attached to the decision. I'll look it all over carefully, but I just gave you the high points.
Sincerely, thanks to you all for hanging with me and offering support.
Congratulations on this WIN.
I'm happy to say I was wrong in that I didn't think you'd get that much out of arbitration.
Just have to wonder, not that you really care, about what this will do to the way Cadillac handles future customers when they have a valid complaint. If I had to guess, it will be business as usual. Customers will have to fight tooth and nail to get satisfaction like you did.
One more thing...just curious, how empty is that bottle of Woodruffs right now.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
RR The thinking is, when you have a BMW that doesn't shake, leave it alone.
In the 80s I took two cars in for tire rotations....both times the tires wore out very soon afterwards.
I have not had tires rotated ever since. I would rather let the front ones wear out, replace them, and buy two new tires at a time instead of rotating them. I think the tires get used to wear they are, and they start to wear at a faster rate when they are rotated. But, that's just this layman's opinion.
At least you are honest about that being your "layman's opinion" because that statement makes no technical sense whatsoever.
Now will you stop eating that Denny's Bourbon Chicken?
jmonroe
Makes no technical sense but it works for me. Like I said, as soon as I did a tire rotation my tires wore out with flat spots and uneven wear, twice. If I leave them put the fronts go first and I replace them with new tires. At the time I could afford replacing 2 tires instead of 4 a lot better anyways.
I have a friend who does know a lot about cars, and he came to the same conclusion completely independent of my experience.
The experts sometimes think what seems to make sense technically is the best solution, this time the novice is the one who knows better.
Comes from eating a low fat high protein diet.
I agree Driver. When I curbed the tire on my Fusion back in November I replaced all 4 tires. They all looked worn the same and they were never rotated. This is AWD - I don't know if that matters.
I feel that a tire gets used to where it is - the toe, the camber, etc. and adjusts to fit. When it gets put on a different corner, it has to re-adjust. That messes with the internals of the tire.
Faithful rotating makes tires wear out evenly faster.
I didn't hear any testimony that his speed was unreasonable or unsafe, and I recall it being for a marginal amount over the speed limit (hence the 5 MPH). 5 MPH is so little that the average speed of traffic was either probably faster (most likely 85% percentile speeds would be higher), or at least the same pace, giving no indication to him that something was malfunctioning in his vehicle.
Well, OK, sure, if the speed was so marginal, the case was probably going to get tossed anyway or given a non-points violation.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mr S, I was interested in the comments about the Triumph compared to others....sounds like it has the feel of the road. We saw some motorcycles parked outside Denny's one night (did I mention they have fabulous bourbon chicken skillets) and I really like the new style of bikes these days. I hear they can cost over $60000!
Just have to wonder, not that you really care, about what this will do to the way Cadillac handles future customers when they have a valid complaint. If I had to guess, it will be business as usual. Customers will have to fight tooth and nail to get satisfaction like you did.
That would be my guess as well. The decision has almost nothing to do with their practice. If their history shows that half of people go away, then they'll keep right on doing it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Question for the sales dudes (although anyone is welcome to chime in)
In your dealings with customers did you ever have someone balk because you met their price without a fight?
A woman at work was all excited about looking at a 2012 Hyundai Elantra with 32000 miles, $12995. She said she would buy at $10,000. Went to the dealer and he met her price. Suddenly, she's not sure and goes to leave. Salesman asks what she thinks would be fair (indicating more wiggle room). She walks out and now says she's not sure she wants it.
I don't get it.
Reminds me a very old joke. Three guys sit in a bar and a little boy approaches them with a widget. How much do you want? Asks the first guy. Five bucks. OK, here it is. The boy leaves and those two other guys looks at him - are you nuts? This is a POS, worth less than couple of bucks, at best. The guy responds - I can let go those five bucks, but the boy will bang his head for a full day saying "Should have asked for ten!".
J....Not sure how many people actually go to arbitration with GM in any given year. I think we all believe that GM rejects all requests for a buyback, unless they're forced to. So, how many people just give up at the "rejection of claim" decision? How many people actually get an abitraion hearing and flat don't show up? They actually called me the day before the hearing to make sure I was going to be there.
How many actually go to the arbitraion hearing and lose their case?
I imagine the number who actually get to the arbitraion phase, actually go to the hearing, and then win, probably is quite small.
So, have I taught Cadillac a lesson? Doubtful. They just move on to the next case.
Yep...will have a sip or two of bourbon tonite in celebration of my final Cadillac experience.
What's funny, I'm sure they'll want the car back. But, in all the instructions (accept the decision, accept the $$$$$ amount, send the acceptance back, check with BBB to make sure they received the signed decision in the allotted time, etc), not once did they tell me what or where the car should be taken to, nor when.
I have really become lazy when it comes to waxing our cars. The 2003 CRV we gave our son last year has usually been garaged and I think I maybe waxed it three times since it was new. Modern cars have clearcoat finishes that have just about done away with the need for constant waxing. After a wash, the 14 year old CRV sparkles like it did when new.
Does anyone remember Blue Coral? Now, THAT was an ALL DAY assignment but the results always looked great! A local Detail Shop used to charge 40.00 and they would throw about four " Jesus" type guys on it and it took the better part of the day!
Yes I remember Blue Coral.
I used it one time and never again. It wasn't worth all the work as far as I was concerned. They marketed that product very well. It seems like every one I worked with used it and all of us felt the same way.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
RR The thinking is, when you have a BMW that doesn't shake, leave it alone.
In the 80s I took two cars in for tire rotations....both times the tires wore out very soon afterwards.
I have not had tires rotated ever since. I would rather let the front ones wear out, replace them, and buy two new tires at a time instead of rotating them. I think the tires get used to wear they are, and they start to wear at a faster rate when they are rotated. But, that's just this layman's opinion.
At least you are honest about that being your "layman's opinion" because that statement makes no technical sense whatsoever.
Now will you stop eating that Denny's Bourbon Chicken?
jmonroe
Makes no technical sense but it works for me. Like I said, as soon as I did a tire rotation my tires wore out with flat spots and uneven wear, twice. If I leave them put the fronts go first and I replace them with new tires. At the time I could afford replacing 2 tires instead of 4 a lot better anyways.
I have a friend who does know a lot about cars, and he came to the same conclusion completely independent of my experience.
The experts sometimes think what seems to make sense technically is the best solution, this time the novice is the one who knows better.
Comes from eating a low fat high protein diet.
I agree Driver. When I curbed the tire on my Fusion back in November I replaced all 4 tires. They all looked worn the same and they were never rotated. This is AWD - I don't know if that matters.
I feel that a tire gets used to where it is - the toe, the camber, etc. and adjusts to fit. When it gets put on a different corner, it has to re-adjust. That messes with the internals of the tire.
Faithful rotating makes tires wear out evenly faster.
I am glad you wrote that venture, those were the terms my mechanically minded friend used. I found out by accident, but you have what I would say is the science behind the fact.
I just saw an ad for a fast lube place....they recommend you change the oil every 5000 miles....of course they do, that way they make more money. Or the instructions on the back of the shampoo bottle, apply and then rinse, for best results repeat????????????
Just have to wonder, not that you really care, about what this will do to the way Cadillac handles future customers when they have a valid complaint. If I had to guess, it will be business as usual. Customers will have to fight tooth and nail to get satisfaction like you did.
That would be my guess as well. The decision has almost nothing to do with their practice. If their history shows that half of people go away, then they'll keep right on doing it.
And then there are the 80% who give up before it even gets to arbitration....no, they won't change.
Motorcycle project is coming along---we're getting close to lift off! Seat's being redone, still hunting for the correct horn, tail light bracket is being painted. Also the clutch is too stiff---may need to take that apart and replace the springs.
From boxes of parts to nice driver in about 5 months of part-time work:
Looks like some very nice work to me.
One question...how are you going to get a big beautiful German Shepherd to fit behind you on that seat?
jmonroe
The back seat area is reserved for saddle bags (and no, not with TASSELS). It's really not safe for a dog to be riding without goggles (seriously). Besides I don't have a dog or dog goggles and I've spent enough already on this bike
@graphicguy, Glad the decision on the car went your way. I remember you saying the GM rep and the AB chitchatted a bit. I'd like to think the conversation went this way, GM guy, "I know our goose is cooked, just give me enough time to get out of town". AB, 'OK you have until Monday'.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Comments
Wash your hands of the Cadillac, and enjoy the Infiniti and Ford every day (the Ford more as the weather gets nicer).
One question - how are they determining the cost of your time on all the travel back and forth to the dealership? Your salary divided by 2080 hours? I'm curious about this aspect of the agreement.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Enjoy the Infiniti. BTW, how is that going? Still happy with it?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If the decision went any less favorably, it couldn't be seen as bias, but outright fraud. If he couldn't win, no one can win.
It is like when I witnessed a person who credibly proved in court that his speedometer was malfunctioning leading to his speeding ticket. If that didn't get him off I knew right away no one was going to win their case in that courtroom short of a dismissal for lack of prosecution (a no-show on the cop's part is the only way to win).
I understand that if you show your speedometer was reading 5 MPH lower than actual speed, and you testify you were going the speed limit, you were indeed speeding. However, it doesn't pass the "absurdity" test as has come up with a frozen truck case on our most recent Supreme Court nominee.
A very wise published decision in CA once said:
"Traffic rules account for most of the contact by average citizens with law enforcement and the courts. Enforcement of laws which are widely perceived as unreasonable and unfair generates disrespect and even contempt toward those who make and enforce those laws." - California Appellate Court, People vs. Goulet.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You could say that Mike's car is safe in the arms of Jesus!
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Could have saved themselves a lot of time and money probably. Before this all snowballed (say, month 2). Bet GG would have taken a replacement car instead.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Does anyone remember Blue Coral? Now, THAT was an ALL DAY assignment but the results always looked great! A local Detail Shop used to charge 40.00 and they would throw about four " Jesus" type guys on it and it took the better part of the day!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Here's something for you FL people:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2008/fl-orban.pdf
And probably the most definitive study done on RLC's:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/burkeyobeng.pdf
After reading the two research projects above you will know why scameras are evil.
And now CA wants speed cameras if one Assemblymember coerces and gets his way to pass AB-342:
http://saferstreetsla.org/1849/legislation-bring-speed-cameras-california/
I hope for the sake of CA as a State in the USA, Assembly Bill 342 never passes.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Also, I'd like to know that the owner/driver was negligent in driving a run-down vehicle. Perhaps his speedometer wasn't broken for very long, perhaps even it started malfunctioning the day of the ticket. Hard to blame the guy for that. I can't recall if this was a basic speed law or maximum speed law case though.
I think it's pretty harsh when someone wasn't knowingly deliberately speeding to give them a speeding ticket.
I think stick is right....GMs policy is to fight any claim........they think they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and if they give in others will do the same. But, they played it wrong....very wrong. If they had given GG the value of the car they could have taken it back and resold it.....now it is branded a lemon.
And, the funny part is they chose the arbitrator. Imagine if the arbitrator was chosen by someone else. GM might not choose him ever again.
Seriously though, I am glad that he was fair and it was quite a victory....way to hang in there GG.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It would have created tiered residuals within each model for varying package levels. The goal, I imagine, was to normalize the lease end value of highly optioned cars where those options don't necessarily increase the car's value at lease end. Effectively it limited how much certain option packages could be residualized for a la Toyota.
But, like I said, they yanked it.
Now will you stop eating that Denny's Bourbon Chicken?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Stick....Really like the Q50. Then again, I've always liked the G3x that came before it, too. I just couldn't swing a deal on one.
It's comfy, fast, makes good sounds, handles well, good steering, rides well, nice amount of lux, nice stereo. Nothing I can complain about so far....not even a squeak or a rattle.
I'm getting about 23 MPG in mixed driving, which is about par for sports sedans these days. I'm not an MPG hound, so not sure what I'd get on the highway, but I'm pleased with it. Drivetrain still has less than 1,000 miles and I've kept me foot in it a goodly amount of time, so all-in-all, MPG is good.
Again, I can't thank you guys enough for your encouragement.
One question...how are you going to get a big beautiful German Shepherd to fit behind you on that seat?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Back in the '60s all I had for transportation was a motorcycle, until I was 20, when I determined that if I continued to ride in the Phoenix metro area it was only a matter of when, not if. Earlier, I'd ridden in rural areas and loved it, very much. I lusted after the motor you're rebuilding, along with certain BSAs and the odd Ducati.
I'm sure you'll love it. Please continue to post progress.
If someone had offered me 3000.00 less than the asking price for a used car I would have expressed a lot of doubt that that off would be accepted and for good reason. I would have suggested that we look at lesser priced cars if, in fact that were her budget. Had she persisted I would have told her that I would be very happy tp present any kind of offer she had in mind including the 10,000 she had in mind. I would have MADE SURE she had an iron clad commitment to buy the car at that price! That was the salesperson's mistake! I would have said...I think we both know it's going to take more than this but let's give it a try" I would have written WILL BUY AND DRIVE HOME TODAY and had her sign it. If there was any hesitation then I knew I had no commitment and I wouldn't have presented the offer. I may have even said..." Hey, I'l offer less than that if you'ld like" The Sales Manager should have taken the 10,000 offer and countered. By not doing that, that woman thought she was leaving money on the table of that "something" was wrong.
If the car has the "Luxury" or "M-Sport" package, deduct 1% from the standard residual
If the car has the "Executive Luxury" or "Executive M-Sport" package, deduct 2% from the standard residual.
As noted, this is an attempt by BMW to establish end of lease residual values more in line with the projected value - this is not a new tactic.
Higher trims of most cars come with a lower residual value - Honda does it, Volvo does it, FCA does it, Nissan / Mazda / Toyota do it.
In fact, the holdouts are Lexus (sort of - there are now different residuals for the F-Sport trim) and MB.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I have a friend who does know a lot about cars, and he came to the same conclusion completely independent of my experience.
The experts sometimes think what seems to make sense technically is the best solution, this time the novice is the one who knows better.
Comes from eating a low fat high protein diet.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm happy to say I was wrong in that I didn't think you'd get that much out of arbitration.
Just have to wonder, not that you really care, about what this will do to the way Cadillac handles future customers when they have a valid complaint. If I had to guess, it will be business as usual. Customers will have to fight tooth and nail to get satisfaction like you did.
One more thing...just curious, how empty is that bottle of Woodruffs right now.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I feel that a tire gets used to where it is - the toe, the camber, etc. and adjusts to fit. When it gets put on a different corner, it has to re-adjust. That messes with the internals of the tire.
Faithful rotating makes tires wear out evenly faster.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
We saw some motorcycles parked outside Denny's one night (did I mention they have fabulous bourbon chicken skillets) and I really like the new style of bikes these days. I hear they can cost over $60000!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2018 430i Gran Coupe
How many actually go to the arbitraion hearing and lose their case?
I imagine the number who actually get to the arbitraion phase, actually go to the hearing, and then win, probably is quite small.
So, have I taught Cadillac a lesson? Doubtful. They just move on to the next case.
Yep...will have a sip or two of bourbon tonite in celebration of my final Cadillac experience.
What's funny, I'm sure they'll want the car back. But, in all the instructions (accept the decision, accept the $$$$$ amount, send the acceptance back, check with BBB to make sure they received the signed decision in the allotted time, etc), not once did they tell me what or where the car should be taken to, nor when.
I used it one time and never again. It wasn't worth all the work as far as I was concerned. They marketed that product very well. It seems like every one I worked with used it and all of us felt the same way.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I just saw an ad for a fast lube place....they recommend you change the oil every 5000 miles....of course they do, that way they make more money. Or the instructions on the back of the shampoo bottle, apply and then rinse, for best results repeat????????????
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Glad the decision on the car went your way.
I remember you saying the GM rep and the AB chitchatted a bit.
I'd like to think the conversation went this way, GM guy, "I know our goose is cooked, just give me enough time to get out of town". AB, 'OK you have until Monday'.