Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

jmonroe said:

stickguy said:

who can actually steal a new MB anyway? If you can do that, you sure don't need to be getting into the navi. Or open the glove box and pull out the registration or insurance card with the address on it. Even easier.

simple trick though. Don't put your own address in. Pick one a block away or something like that. Gets you close enough that you should be able to find the rest yourself!

You beat me to the punch 'stick' but my post has an interesting tale, so I won't delete it.

jmonroe

It was a good story and you and stick have a good idea using another address in your GPS.

JM, did you actually say:

. Even if I am drunk, if I get that far I should be able to find my way to my real house.

What!

I should use the address of my neighbor that I don't talk to.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

qbrozen I'm a bit confused by this line of questioning. Dealers do nothing in regards to depreciation. The market determines the value of vehicles. I think Mike was referring to used cars being re-evaluated monthly. That actually is no longer accurate, though. In the digital age, trade-in values are recalculated in real time as auction results and sales results happen.

Maybe this will help explain. Let us say I traded in my 2015 E400 for a 2017 E400.
Dealer gives me a trade in value for the 2015 based on the new car arriving late November, and they take my trade in late Nov.
New car isn't available until April. That means the trade in has about 4000 more miles on it, and it is on the dealers lot 4 months later than anticipated.......they would normally take that off the value of the trade-in.

I traded in a 2008 BMW 328 convertible for a 2012 bmw 535. I made the deal in early September. Car arrived in late October about 2 months later. They gave me less for the trade in because they said "we won't be able to sell a convertible until the spring".

They base the value of the trade on a diminishing bases....for each month after the appraisal date. I can see their point to some degree, but, I think it is a bit of a scam - like DOC fees, mop n glo, phony financing, tinting, 3M plastic shield, etching etc.

If I am reading you right, I believe you are interpreting this incorrectly. The value of the trade is based in the real world. If they are doing anything different than that, you need to find a new dealer. But they should easily be able to show you the data if you have doubts. And, yes, in the north, convertibles are worth less in the winter. Dealers typically pay what they could pay for an equal car at auction (often less some auction fees and transport). Those values decrease monthly/weekly/daily.

I realize they value the car using the black book or red book. Maybe that changes monthly. They do calculate when you will be bringing the trade-in to the dealer. If for some reason you were ordering a car today they would give uyou a trade in value....if you said order me a car and I will bring my trade in 8 months from now, you would get less for it. All I know is that is what he told me and that is what I have had done. It seems the car is worth less each month, or at least every 2 months, definitely less if it comes in once the next years cars are out.

Maybe it is a Canadian thing and the US dealers haven't caught on yet.

OF
Maybe I'm not following correctly but did you say a new car doesn't depreciate until next year's model come out?

I'm not explaining myself well today....still have jetlag even though my flight was due North. Not really depreciation, but generally high end makes don't lower their prices unless sales are slow, which they aren't, or near the end of the model year. Not depreciation, I should say they start discounting once the next years cars are on the lot.

If you believe that drive your new car to the nearest dealer and ask for a buy bid.

I agree, it will depreciate 15% or more as soon as you buy it. But the dealer price, especially on high end cars or all cars in a strong market, won't be discounted by the dealer, until the end of the model year....that has been my experience since buying Euro cars beginning in 2004. A slow seller could be discounted early too....I haven't had that happen to me.

Also, on your trade, if you had made a deal for a trade price to be made on a specific date and the dealer delayed delivery, how would any subsequent depreciation be your responsibility?

I believe the deal can be cancelled if the car isn't delivered by the agreed date, or within a time limit. I am quite sure in my case, if I wanted out of my long delayed deal I could have cancelled. I am sure the dealer can renegotiate or cancel if they can't deliver on time....but, of course, they still want to sell a car and don't want to upset a customer by charging more for a late arriving car.

This is all my opinion and it is drawn from the experiences I have gone through.

berri

Graphic, after all those GM Cadillac problems are you seriously thinking about going back to GM right now?

jmonroe

driver100 said:

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

qbrozen I'm a bit confused by this line of questioning. Dealers do nothing in regards to depreciation. The market determines the value of vehicles. I think Mike was referring to used cars being re-evaluated monthly. That actually is no longer accurate, though. In the digital age, trade-in values are recalculated in real time as auction results and sales results happen.

Maybe this will help explain. Let us say I traded in my 2015 E400 for a 2017 E400.
Dealer gives me a trade in value for the 2015 based on the new car arriving late November, and they take my trade in late Nov.
New car isn't available until April. That means the trade in has about 4000 more miles on it, and it is on the dealers lot 4 months later than anticipated.......they would normally take that off the value of the trade-in.

I traded in a 2008 BMW 328 convertible for a 2012 bmw 535. I made the deal in early September. Car arrived in late October about 2 months later. They gave me less for the trade in because they said "we won't be able to sell a convertible until the spring".

They base the value of the trade on a diminishing bases....for each month after the appraisal date. I can see their point to some degree, but, I think it is a bit of a scam - like DOC fees, mop n glo, phony financing, tinting, 3M plastic shield, etching etc.

If I am reading you right, I believe you are interpreting this incorrectly. The value of the trade is based in the real world. If they are doing anything different than that, you need to find a new dealer. But they should easily be able to show you the data if you have doubts. And, yes, in the north, convertibles are worth less in the winter. Dealers typically pay what they could pay for an equal car at auction (often less some auction fees and transport). Those values decrease monthly/weekly/daily.

I realize they value the car using the black book or red book. Maybe that changes monthly. They do calculate when you will be bringing the trade-in to the dealer. If for some reason you were ordering a car today they would give uyou a trade in value....if you said order me a car and I will bring my trade in 8 months from now, you would get less for it. All I know is that is what he told me and that is what I have had done. It seems the car is worth less each month, or at least every 2 months, definitely less if it comes in once the next years cars are out.

Maybe it is a Canadian thing and the US dealers haven't caught on yet.

Terry used to say something to the effect that he could always spot the rookies at the auctions because of all the paper cuts they had on their fingers. Books are old hat. Real-time auction results keep the values moving constantly.

Maybe we are talking two different things.
Auctions depend on what people will pay for a car.
A dealer trade in is based on what the dealer is willing to pay for the car - usually based on some kind of guide, black book/blue book/KBB etc.
My experience is new car dealers will tell you your car may be worth this much today, but it is worth less two or three months from now.
I am not sure that is fair or not...I can see it up to a point, especially when new models come out, but, I think it is just another way to try to get the customer to pay more.

From what I have learned about used car prices, the old blue, black, green, pink book, or whatever book you want to use, is no longer used. Dealers have access to real time auction prices for a given area so that is what is used today at your local dealership. At least that is what has been said here and on other car sites for the last few years, anyway.

New car prices are dictated by what a dealer wants to sell it for at a given time in the month. The end is usually better but good negotiating skills and being willing to walk if you don't get the price you want comes into play also. Now, if you have to keep walking, you might want to do more research or employ the old "bobst method".

jmonroe

qbrozen

driver100 said:

qbrozen I'm a bit confused by this line of questioning. Dealers do nothing in regards to depreciation. The market determines the value of vehicles. I think Mike was referring to used cars being re-evaluated monthly. That actually is no longer accurate, though. In the digital age, trade-in values are recalculated in real time as auction results and sales results happen.

Maybe this will help explain. Let us say I traded in my 2015 E400 for a 2017 E400. Dealer gives me a trade in value for the 2015 based on the new car arriving late November, and they take my trade in late Nov. New car isn't available until April. That means the trade in has about 4000 more miles on it, and it is on the dealers lot 4 months later than anticipated.......they would normally take that off the value of the trade-in. I traded in a 2008 BMW 328 convertible for a 2012 bmw 535. I made the deal in early September. Car arrived in late October about 2 months later. They gave me less for the trade in because they said "we won't be able to sell a convertible until the spring". They base the value of the trade on a diminishing bases....for each month after the appraisal date. I can see their point to some degree, but, I think it is a bit of a scam - like DOC fees, mop n glo, phony financing, tinting, 3M plastic shield, etching etc.

If I am reading you right, I believe you are interpreting this incorrectly. The value of the trade is based in the real world. If they are doing anything different than that, you need to find a new dealer. But they should easily be able to show you the data if you have doubts. And, yes, in the north, convertibles are worth less in the winter. Dealers typically pay what they could pay for an equal car at auction (often less some auction fees and transport). Those values decrease monthly/weekly/daily.

I realize they value the car using the black book or red book. Maybe that changes monthly. They do calculate when you will be bringing the trade-in to the dealer. If for some reason you were ordering a car today they would give uyou a trade in value....if you said order me a car and I will bring my trade in 8 months from now, you would get less for it. All I know is that is what he told me and that is what I have had done. It seems the car is worth less each month, or at least every 2 months, definitely less if it comes in once the next years cars are out. Maybe it is a Canadian thing and the US dealers haven't caught on yet.

Terry used to say something to the effect that he could always spot the rookies at the auctions because of all the paper cuts they had on their fingers. Books are old hat. Real-time auction results keep the values moving constantly.

Maybe we are talking two different things. Auctions depend on what people will pay for a car. A dealer trade in is based on what the dealer is willing to pay for the car - usually based on some kind of guide, black book/blue book/KBB etc. My experience is new car dealers will tell you your car may be worth this much today, but it is worth less two or three months from now. I am not sure that is fair or not...I can see it up to a point, especially when new models come out, but, I think it is just another way to try to get the customer to pay more.

No, I'm talking about dealer auctions. So it is what dealers are paying for the cars. Books are outdated the minute they are printed, so they are worthless. I haven't seen a dealer use a book in years. In the US anyway. Canada could very well still be using stone tablets for all I know. ;b

When I am giving people answers on the RWTIV board, it is usually data from within the past month only, and it can very easily change from week to week.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

stickguy said:

who can actually steal a new MB anyway? If you can do that, you sure don't need to be getting into the navi. Or open the glove box and pull out the registration or insurance card with the address on it. Even easier.

simple trick though. Don't put your own address in. Pick one a block away or something like that. Gets you close enough that you should be able to find the rest yourself!

You beat me to the punch 'stick' but my post has an interesting tale, so I won't delete it.

jmonroe

It was a good story and you and stick have a good idea using another address in your GPS.

JM, did you actually say:

. Even if I am drunk, if I get that far I should be able to find my way to my real house.

What!

I should use the address of my neighbor that I don't talk to.

I said it alright.

If you have a problem neighbor use his address or the one that can shoot the best. They'll never know.

About this drunk thing; being drunk is a matter of how it affects you. I subscribe to the belief that "you ain't drunk if you can lay on the floor without holding on". Although I wouldn't say that in a court room.

jmonroe

fezo

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way.

Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision.

So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it.

Will report as I can.

qbrozen

Good to read from you fez. Good luck with the cataracts. I'm sure it will be ok.

suydam

You won't believe how well you will see. All good thoughts.

jmonroe

fezo said:

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way.

Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision.

So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it.

Will report as I can.

Good to hear from you 'fez'.

I have my request for a successful cataract surgery input to my contact upstairs.

You have nothing to worry about now. You'll be just fine.

jmonroe

abacomike

fezo said:

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way. Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision. So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it. Will report as I can.

Fezo.  Praying for a successful outcome for you as soon as I post this prayer for you:

May the Lord Bless you and keep you and may he watch over you and guide the hands of the opthamologist as he restores perfect vision to your eye.    

graphicguy

fezo said:

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way.

Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision.

So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it.

Will report as I can.

Had it done in both eyes....piece of cake. I did have a detached retina about a year ago. But, they tell me cataract surgery and detached retina is unrelated.

Don't fret.....you'll be fine.

driver100

abacomike said:

fezo said:

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way.

Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision.

So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it.

Will report as I can.

Fezo.  Praying for a successful outcome for you as soon as I post this prayer for you:

May the Lord Bless you and keep you and may he watch over you and guide the hands of the opthamologist as he restores perfect vision to your eye.    


+1 Been wondering where you were!

driver100

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

qbrozen I'm a bit confused by this line of questioning. Dealers do nothing in regards to depreciation. The market determines the value of vehicles. I think Mike was referring to used cars being re-evaluated monthly. That actually is no longer accurate, though. In the digital age, trade-in values are recalculated in real time as auction results and sales results happen.

Maybe this will help explain. Let us say I traded in my 2015 E400 for a 2017 E400.
Dealer gives me a trade in value for the 2015 based on the new car arriving late November, and they take my trade in late Nov.
New car isn't available until April. That means the trade in has about 4000 more miles on it, and it is on the dealers lot 4 months later than anticipated.......they would normally take that off the value of the trade-in.

I traded in a 2008 BMW 328 convertible for a 2012 bmw 535. I made the deal in early September. Car arrived in late October about 2 months later. They gave me less for the trade in because they said "we won't be able to sell a convertible until the spring".

They base the value of the trade on a diminishing bases....for each month after the appraisal date. I can see their point to some degree, but, I think it is a bit of a scam - like DOC fees, mop n glo, phony financing, tinting, 3M plastic shield, etching etc.

If I am reading you right, I believe you are interpreting this incorrectly. The value of the trade is based in the real world. If they are doing anything different than that, you need to find a new dealer. But they should easily be able to show you the data if you have doubts. And, yes, in the north, convertibles are worth less in the winter. Dealers typically pay what they could pay for an equal car at auction (often less some auction fees and transport). Those values decrease monthly/weekly/daily.

I realize they value the car using the black book or red book. Maybe that changes monthly. They do calculate when you will be bringing the trade-in to the dealer. If for some reason you were ordering a car today they would give uyou a trade in value....if you said order me a car and I will bring my trade in 8 months from now, you would get less for it. All I know is that is what he told me and that is what I have had done. It seems the car is worth less each month, or at least every 2 months, definitely less if it comes in once the next years cars are out.

Maybe it is a Canadian thing and the US dealers haven't caught on yet.

Terry used to say something to the effect that he could always spot the rookies at the auctions because of all the paper cuts they had on their fingers. Books are old hat. Real-time auction results keep the values moving constantly.

Maybe we are talking two different things.
Auctions depend on what people will pay for a car.
A dealer trade in is based on what the dealer is willing to pay for the car - usually based on some kind of guide, black book/blue book/KBB etc.
My experience is new car dealers will tell you your car may be worth this much today, but it is worth less two or three months from now.
I am not sure that is fair or not...I can see it up to a point, especially when new models come out, but, I think it is just another way to try to get the customer to pay more.

No, I'm talking about dealer auctions. So it is what dealers are paying for the cars. Books are outdated the minute they are printed, so they are worthless. I haven't seen a dealer use a book in years. In the US anyway. Canada could very well still be using stone tablets for all I know. ;b

When I am giving people answers on the RWTIV board, it is usually data from within the past month only, and it can very easily change from week to week.

I think we are talking about 2 different things then.....JMonroe is included here.

When I traded in the 2013 Passat for the 2014 C250 I checked the KBB price online to see what the Passat would be worth.
It gave me a valuation, and I showed the dealer what I came up with and they pretty well matched the number. At first they offered less but I showed them my copy of the KBB value.

Another dealer (a BMW dealer) had us sit in a chair , he went on the computer and we watched the screen, and came up with a KBB value that was about $500 lower than the price I found.

I have a suspicion KBB sells them a service they can use so they can show you a lower price than the customer finds.

imidazol97

@fezo
Wishing you the best outcome on the cataract surgery. The problem rate is very low and I'm sure you have a surgeon fully aware of the other health problems. So things will be fine.

It will be like going from a decades old color TV to a brand new LED or plasma that's top quality on color. I couldn't believe the difference in vision. Of course the optometrist who did the quick check days after surgery didn't believe me when I said I could read the small print on the shampoo bottle the next morning through the pinhole in the plastic eye cover. He thought I was daffy.

graphicguy

berri said:

Graphic, after all those GM Cadillac problems are you seriously thinking about going back to GM right now?

No....not even remotely in the market.....and most certainly never another Cadillac. These two Chevy were rentals.

However.....as a brief impression, the Cruze LT I'm in now (Hertz), for what I would think could be bought for high teens, with Apple Car Play, power locks, windows, etc, surprisingly decent (not bad) stereo, is a nice ride for that money.

Only drag races it will win is against a Smart Car. That said, the tiny 1.8L turbo is smooth and is willing to rev. No turbo lag. 6-speed trans shifts smoothly and is willing to shift (even with a manual button on the shifter). Seats aren't Recaros, but will hold you in and are comfortable for the class.

Suspension was fine, except for the biggest pot holes (driven around Detroit). Those will jolt the entire car, as well as your teeth. Everything else on the road was handled with ease and with a compliant ride.

The car had 600 miles on it, so new. Fit and materials were mostly good. There was a dash speaker grill that looked like it was installed by a half awake marsupial, but probably an easy fix.

MPG computer says 38, and I haven't been gentle, 50-50 interstate/in town. Rides well, steers well. The fuel saving tires leave a lot to be desired as they get squirrelly at about 70 MPH.

Interior materials were pretty good. Lots of plastic. But some nice cloth on the dash. No sharp edges. Seat fabric appeared durable. Ergonomics were good.

The Volt (which I had driven briefly before) is a company experiment. Long story but we are providing some of the chips to drive it. Chevy providing the company with "loaners" to use while us "remote folks" are visiting HQ.

Amazing torque, not surprising given it's electric propulsion. Not a top HP maker. But, in town you'd be hard pressed to find anything better for a motor. It's super quiet. Will embarrass some muscle cars from 0-30 MPH. Never felt the gas engine start or stop. Never saw the fuel gauge move.

The one I drove did not have leather...probably a low end model. But, with Apple Car Play, you have everything you need...NAV, Music, Pod Casts, you can stream news from your favorite news source.

Had to hit the highway a couple of times. The Volt did not feel underpowered and hit 70 MPH with ease.

Steering was direct and communicative. Again, the fuel saving tires got a bit "wonky" on the highway, but everything's controllable. Very good ride. Everything felt like it was built with care and close tolerances.

Mentioned before, GM must be learning something about car stereos since they no longer have to use Delco. They've improved....dramatically. No different in the Volt. Could be because it's so quiet, but the music from my iPhone (connected via USB) sounded pretty darned good. Not as good as in my Infiniti or my Acuras, but good nonetheless.

Seats were comfortable, dials felt substantial and build quality is exemplary. No squeaks nor rattles (amazing given I know how some of my colleagues have treated the Volt).

Assuming it gets the 100MPGe, who knows if you would hit a gas station any more than a half dozen times in any given year?

Not sure, but if it still has a $7,500 tax credit, and assuming one could be bought for about mid $30s, that would make the final price in the high $20s.

I'll go ahead and say it, I don't think you can buy a better new car at that price point.

Both cars impressive. Just goes to show, just because one division is faultering (Cadillac) doesn't mean the entire company is.

Having spent the weekend in CA (home of hybrids as a status symbol) and am now in Detroit, I was able to see a Volt side-by-side with a Prius. No contest. Prius looks like a game pod. Volt looks sleek in comparison.

While in Detroit....lots of Chevies (and Fords and Chryslers). Impala's current iteration is a couple of MY old. And, I still like the way it looks, same for the Malibu and the Cruze I'm driving (not so much the Sonic and Spark).

Said it before, GM should take their lumps with Cadillac and concentrate on Chevrolet and Buick.

stickguy

I think the 1.8l Cruze is the base NA motor. The turbo us a 1.4. Though that would explain lack of turbo lag!

graphicguy

stickguy said:

I think the 1.8l Cruze is the base NA motor. The turbo us a 1.4. Though that would explain lack of turbo lag!

LOL! Yep...that would explain it. Thanks. Didn't know the Cruze had a NA motor. But, being a rental, the base motor makes sense.

Michaell

graphicguy said:

stickguy said:

I think the 1.8l Cruze is the base NA motor. The turbo us a 1.4. Though that would explain lack of turbo lag!

LOL! Yep...that would explain it. Thanks. Didn't know the Cruze had a NA motor. But, being a rental, the base motor makes sense.

I believe the turbo is now a 1.5 - 153HP, or some such.

Not sure that the 1.8 is available any more with the redesign.

driver100

GG Great reviews.....I really get a good sense of what those cars would be like for me to drive or consider owning. Better than some "professional" reviews.

One I read was comparing an E300, A6 and BMW 535. They were all close but the E400 was criticized for having the smallest trunk, 1 cubic foot less than the Audi. That is meaningless to me, I like the design of the E400 with a long snout and short trunk, and I don't care about 1 cubic foot of trunk space. Do these people live in the real world?

ab348

Geez, guys, you're all wrong about the Cruze engines. All gas-powered ones use the same 1.4L Turbo engine now with a rated 153hp. The previous generation base model had a 1.8L NA motor while other models got a slightly different 1.4L Turbo compared to the one in use now.

I wish they would offer the 1.5L Turbo from the Malibu in it and make a SS model.

murphydog

I see a couple of car rental stories, thought I would share this -

Last year for spring break I rented a BMW 328i from SIXT for 10 days for just over $350 all in. It was a great promo, especially in light of the high rental car taxes and fees at the Phoenix Airport. Good experience, and pretty good rental car!

So this year I start searching for cars and am not seeing the great deals, what the heck SIXT was good last year rates are high, but on par with everybody else, so I make the reservation, and I take the prepaid option as it is a few dollars per day cheaper.

I do some last minute checking yesterday and low and behold rates have dropped across the board. I try to modify the reservation to the new lower rate and see a $180 change surcharge which is of course make the price higher that what I had reserved. So I sleuth around to find a customer care number - let me tell you SIXT does not want to actually talk to you. I finally get through and the rep tells me I am out of luck and that prepaid reservations cannot be changed, I should have read the T&Cs more closely.

Hmm....so next I hit them up via Twitter - have had better luck with other companies that way (@comcastcares is a good example) and again I am told that I can in no way change the prepaid reservation to the new lower rate, but they would happily upgrade me from a mid-size to the premium category. After much back and forth I went ahead an took the upgrade.

I have to say given the many rental car choices out there I won't rent from SIXT again, and I am somewhat shocked and surprised that they would have such a rigid and negative customer policy.

I am going to try and pick a Mercedes CLA - will let you know what I think when we get back.

suydam

I believe all the rentals that have a prepaid option do that. You save a bit upfront but you take your chances if rates fall. I never prepay for precisely that reason.

Nice review of the two Chevies! Interestingly when we were shopping the Cruze lease was more expensive than the Volt's! Making it a no brained for us. We liked the Cruze but thought the Volt is in another league altogether. We were looking at the loaded versions of each.

murphydog

suydam said:

I believe all the rentals that have a prepaid option do that. You save a bit upfront but you take your chances if rates fall. I never prepay for precisely that reason.

Nice review of the two Chevies! Interestingly when we were shopping the Cruze lease was more expensive than the Volt's! Making it a no brained for us. We liked the Cruze but thought the Volt is in another league altogether. We were looking at the loaded versions of each.

I think you are correct, and lesson learned for sure! Plus I will book more last minute next time. Rates almost always seem better right before we go.

abacomike

driver100 said:

GG Great reviews.....I really get a good sense of what those cars would be like for me to drive or consider owning. Better than some "professional" reviews.

One I read was comparing an E300, A6 and BMW 535. They were all close but the E400 was criticized for having the smallest trunk, 1 cubic foot less than the Audi. That is meaningless to me, I like the design of the E400 with a long snout and short trunk, and I don't care about 1 cubic foot of trunk space. Do these people live in the real world?

Driver, you need to compare an E300, 540i and A6. There is no 535i anymore - it is now a 540i. They have changed dimensions, engine output and fuel economy - it is totally redesigned.

In the US, the E300 really doesn't compare to the A6 or the 540i. The engine in the E300 is so underpowered it is pathetic. How they sell the E300 in this country when there are so many other "better" vehicles for sale here is beyond my understanding a reasoning. The only powerful E is the E43, but I certainly would not spend $80,000+ for a car like that. The 540i has the same engine I have in my 740i. The A6 has a great engine output, but the interior leaves something to be desired in my opinion. The interior of the E300 and 540i are outstanding and the technology is topline.

Only in Canada can you get an E400. It is my opinion that Mercedes really made a big mistake - if they had done some market research, they would have known ahead of time this 4 cylinder E Class would be a bummer!

driver100

Mike, I think they couldn't produce enough E400s for the US market this year. I think the 2018 E400 will be the exact same car, and that one will be available in the US.

I totally agree about the interior of the A6....it was underwhelming and done in such muted boring colors. The E300/400 does have an incredibly impressive interior....it lights up like a Star Wars video game.

abacomike

driver100 said:

Mike, I think they couldn't produce enough E400s for the US market this year. I think the 2018 E400 will be the exact same car, and that one will be available in the US.

I totally agree about the interior of the A6....it was underwhelming and done in such muted boring colors. The E300/400 does have an incredibly impressive interior....it lights up like a Star Wars video game.

That's the same feeling I get from the time I approach my car and the door handles glow amber and the ground is illuminated amber as well. When I open the driver's door, the kick plate glows amber and the interior lighting is all amber which matches the interior leather. It is truly a beautiful cockpit and from my memory, the E Class has the same possible lighting package and dash.

You are really going to enjoy that new car, driver - just understand that the learning curve for all the technology is going to take quite a bit of time. I'm still learning things. But BMW was smart to hire a Genius Team at each dealership to be available to re-present the car several days after the initial delivery. There is also an iPhone App for Genius where I can call a special number and they answer your questions or put you through a dry run while you are in the car for a step-by-step guidance. There is no limit to the number of times you can contact the Genius team at BMW USA. Mercedes never had that and it was almost impossible to find someone at any of the dealerships I bought cars at to help you through the myriad of technology. I don't have the problem any longer thanks to the Genius Team at the dealership. There are 4 members to the Genius Team at my purchasing dealer. They have 2 on hand every day.

stickguy

I have driven the MB 2.0t in the c class, and that thing hauled. E is probably not a hat much heavier, and the reviews I recall had pretty quick acceleration times (by normal people, maybe not RB, standards). Maybe in the 6 or very low 6 range 0-60?

Might be more psychological, knowing it is a 4, than functional. Most buyers I doubt really know or care.

Ford had the same issue with moving to v6 turbos in the F150. Winning over the V8 or nothing crowd.

Edit: just checked. Motor trend got 6.2 seconds. With pretty good gas mileage. Likely more than enough for most people that are buying the tech, luxury, and the star. And will never open the hood.

thebean

fezo said:

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way. Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision. So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it. Will report as I can.

@fezo, my wife had cataract surgery on both eyes in Feb & Mar and they turned out great. No problems at all.  She can see better now than she has in years.  Good luck on your surgery.

andres3

stickguy said:

who can actually steal a new MB anyway? If you can do that, you sure don't need to be getting into the navi. Or open the glove box and pull out the registration or insurance card with the address on it. Even easier.

simple trick though. Don't put your own address in. Pick one a block away or something like that. Gets you close enough that you should be able to find the rest yourself!

I see Tort lawsuits in your future for the poor neighbor who's house is robbed because it was in your GPS unit!

OK, so maybe I'm a few days late for April Fool's jokes.

andres3

stickguy said:

I have driven the MB 2.0t in the c class, and that thing hauled. E is probably not a hat much heavier, and the reviews I recall had pretty quick acceleration times (by normal people, maybe not RB, standards). Maybe in the 6 or very low 6 range 0-60?

Might be more psychological, knowing it is a 4, than functional. Most buyers I doubt really know or care.

Ford had the same issue with moving to v6 turbos in the F150. Winning over the V8 or nothing crowd.

Edit: just checked. Motor trend got 6.2 seconds. With pretty good gas mileage. Likely more than enough for most people that are buying the tech, luxury, and the star. And will never open the hood.

Horsepower is a spoiler. It just spoils you. You get used to it. It is like when you are used to driving down the freeway at 85 MPH, let's say on the way to Vegas. You become speed desensitized, and then you find yourself going 85 on the 55 MPH back road and not realizing it, or if you are going 55 it seems like you could jog faster

When you go down in horsepower from one car to another, you do miss it. At least I do. Of course, I'm using the horsepower, so that's probably why I miss it. If someone drives without ever going past 1/4 throttle, then I suppose the HP is wasted upon them.

andres3

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

GG Great reviews.....I really get a good sense of what those cars would be like for me to drive or consider owning. Better than some "professional" reviews.

One I read was comparing an E300, A6 and BMW 535. They were all close but the E400 was criticized for having the smallest trunk, 1 cubic foot less than the Audi. That is meaningless to me, I like the design of the E400 with a long snout and short trunk, and I don't care about 1 cubic foot of trunk space. Do these people live in the real world?

Driver, you need to compare an E300, 540i and A6. There is no 535i anymore - it is now a 540i. They have changed dimensions, engine output and fuel economy - it is totally redesigned.

In the US, the E300 really doesn't compare to the A6 or the 540i. The engine in the E300 is so underpowered it is pathetic. How they sell the E300 in this country when there are so many other "better" vehicles for sale here is beyond my understanding a reasoning. The only powerful E is the E43, but I certainly would not spend $80,000+ for a car like that. The 540i has the same engine I have in my 740i. The A6 has a great engine output, but the interior leaves something to be desired in my opinion. The interior of the E300 and 540i are outstanding and the technology is topline.

Only in Canada can you get an E400. It is my opinion that Mercedes really made a big mistake - if they had done some market research, they would have known ahead of time this 4 cylinder E Class would be a bummer!

In Benz's defense, Audi does offer the A6 with a meager 2.0T for those that don't care how fast a larger luxury car goes, and BMW offers a 528 don't they? for those exact same buyers that would be just as happy with a Prius drive train in their BMW.

The new S4 is turbocharged again, leaner, meaner, and getting good reviews. I read only one review written by one guy, but they said the Audi S4 brings "something" to the road that the BMW 340 and MB C43AMG just don't. I think I saw another review where they really liked the MB C 43 though.

One disappointment for me is that Audi has gone to a torque converter automatic for the S4 saying that it is better at handling gobs of torque. One nice surprise is that they are using 6-piston calipers on the brake discs.

andres3

So my supposed 2-year Price lock with Direct TV/AT&T through Costco is not turning out to be what was promised and sold (I'm sure the fine print probably backs them though):

1) The 2-year price lock is actually more like a "Discount-Lock" They bill you the astronomical amount and deduct your "locked discount" amount for 2 years.

2) This enables them to raise prices that increase your "price lock." Case in point, they raised their rates by a few bucks per month, but they are giving me a second discount to cover that amount, only this discount only lasts until my 1 year anniversary, not the 2nd.

3) They claim the Federal gov't added a "recovery fee and tax. My latest billing has $0.67 for this charge, which seems to go against the "price lock," but certainly doesn't affect a "discount lock"

4) One of my favorite things is the billing claims to be "all inclusive" or "all included" I get a flat charge of $40 per month for AT&T Internet, and I'm supposed to get a $55/month charge for Direct TV (although they do it more like 97-39-3). Either way, this is much better than getting a bunch of little charges (box rental, remote rental, taxes, and fees, ect.). However, the "Recovery fee/tax" flies in the face of this too.

andres3

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

stickguy said:

I think the 1.8l Cruze is the base NA motor. The turbo us a 1.4. Though that would explain lack of turbo lag!

LOL! Yep...that would explain it. Thanks. Didn't know the Cruze had a NA motor. But, being a rental, the base motor makes sense.

I believe the turbo is now a 1.5 - 153HP, or some such.

Not sure that the 1.8 is available any more with the redesign.

I think Chevy should just make all of their car lineup with the Corvette drive-train in it.

andres3

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

stickguy said:

I think the 1.8l Cruze is the base NA motor. The turbo us a 1.4. Though that would explain lack of turbo lag!

LOL! Yep...that would explain it. Thanks. Didn't know the Cruze had a NA motor. But, being a rental, the base motor makes sense.

I believe the turbo is now a 1.5 - 153HP, or some such.

Not sure that the 1.8 is available any more with the redesign.

I think Chevy should just make all of their car lineup with the Corvette drive-train in it.

houdini1

fezo said:

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way.

Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision.

So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it.

Will report as I can.

You'll be fine Fez, not to worry, I'll pray anyway.

laurasdada

While grocery shopping recently, as I was heading back to my car, I spotted across the parking lot an attractive blond woman that works for my company. She spotted me, we waved and went on with our lives.

Today, I had to install some software on her laptop, this is the first time we met face to face. The first thing she said after hello was, "That's a beautiful car you have!" This could be my next future ex wife...

And, this is the real reason we buy cars. To attract attractive women.

driver100

Mike, the amber lighting on the kick plate is a nice touch....I don't know how they keep coming up with these ideas. The more I drive the car the maore I learn and remember...I do remember when the 2015 seemed overwhelming as well. Some day I will master enough that I will feel comfortable with it all....then I will want more.

I agree the Genius idea is a great one. My rep is very good about answering questions and getting back......But, it would be nice to have a resource person who is always available.

btw....that E300 with the 4 banger is no slouch....0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds. But a large full size car deserves a 6 cyl engine.

28firefighter

driver100 said:

Mike, the amber lighting on the kick plate is a nice touch....I don't know how they keep coming up with these ideas. The more I drive the car the maore I learn and remember...I do remember when the 2015 seemed overwhelming as well. Some day I will master enough that I will feel comfortable with it all....then I will want more.

I agree the Genius idea is a great one. My rep is very good about answering questions and getting back......But, it would be nice to have a resource person who is always available.

btw....that E300 with the 4 banger is no slouch....0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds. But a large full size car deserves a 6 cyl engine.

I used to agree with the sentiment that a larger car "needs" a 6 or 8 cylinder engine. However after experiencing some of BMWs more contemporary 4-cylinder engines, I am incredibly impressed by their performance. I'd still like the bigger engines, but I can absolutely see where certain 4 cylinder models are still plenty of fun.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

Mike, the amber lighting on the kick plate is a nice touch....I don't know how they keep coming up with these ideas. The more I drive the car the maore I learn and remember...I do remember when the 2015 seemed overwhelming as well. Some day I will master enough that I will feel comfortable with it all....then I will want more.

I agree the Genius idea is a great one. My rep is very good about answering questions and getting back......But, it would be nice to have a resource person who is always available.

btw....that E300 with the 4 banger is no slouch....0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds. But a large full size car deserves a 6 cyl engine.

Make that a V8.

jmonroe

ab348

laurasdada said:

While grocery shopping recently, as I was heading back to my car, I spotted across the parking lot an attractive blond woman that works for my company. She spotted me, we waved and went on with our lives.

Today, I had to install some software on her laptop, this is the first time we met face to face. The first thing she said after hello was, "That's a beautiful car you have!" This could be my next future ex wife...

And, this is the real reason we buy cars. To attract attractive women.

I think if I were her, I'd be asking myself "How does a guy whose job is installing software on my laptop get to drive such a nice Jaguar?"

abacomike

ab348 said:

While grocery shopping recently, as I was heading back to my car, I spotted across the parking lot an attractive blond woman that works for my company. She spotted me, we waved and went on with our lives. Today, I had to install some software on her laptop, this is the first time we met face to face. The first thing she said after hello was, "That's a beautiful car you have!" This could be my next future ex wife... And, this is the real reason we buy cars. To attract attractive women.

I think if I were her, I'd be asking myself "How does a guy whose job is installing software on my laptop get to drive such a nice Jaguar?"

Cyber theft - how else?! 

abacomike

88 degrees today and a forecast for 92 tomorrow - enough already!!!

andres3

Audi Update: Tracking Number of some type finally received where I'm getting a better "hard" date prediction of when the part is coming in, which is April 12th.

That means I'm in the process of upgrading and swapping my everyday commoner '15 A3 quattro into a nice new luxury '17 A4 quattro model tomorrow morning (since they had to replace a broken glass window this afternoon), and will wash it for me first thing tomorrow morning.

That goes a long way towards helping the situation, as the '17 A4 quattro model is not a car for the commoner, it is at least suitable for higher ranks in the Royalty hierarchy, and at least in the realm of the same ball park value wise as the car that is out of commission.

However, that means they had the car for nearly 2 full weeks if all goes as planned. One more serious issue that requires a part to be ordered from Europe will result in the car being in the shop for a "lemony" amount of time most likely. Then again, the head tech says he's been with Audi 10 years and never had to replace a rear-diff before.

roadburner

abacomike said:

fezo said:

Hello. I have indeed not died on upi gus. Life has been getting in the way.

Speaking of such things I am going in tomorrow for cataract surgery on the good eye because it's getting less good by the day. I understand the wonders on current cataract surgery and that the failure rate is 0.003%. Still it's my only eye that works right. The other has no central vision.

So if any of you praying sorts could put in a good word for me that would be very helpful. Especially between the hours from 8:45 and 11 which is when they are doing it.

Will report as I can.

Fezo.  Praying for a successful outcome for you as soon as I post this prayer for you:

May the Lord Bless you and keep you and may he watch over you and guide the hands of the opthamologist as he restores perfect vision to your eye.    


Ditto!

isellhondas

dino001 said:

I was thinking a little bit more about my recent experiences price shopping for a future order and I had epiphany. On the surface, one would think that the market price should be same on a vehicle, ordered or pickup from stock. Same invoice, same sticker, similar incentives (not same), but it's not. Some stated here that order should be even cheaper, as it costs them less to bring in (no inventory cost), which is true on the income statement. So what gives? Cashflow. Dealers, as most retailers, are generally cash-starved businesses, where whatever money you have, you want to buy inventory that you can sell. BUT - once you have the inventory, it is your ENEMY. It is not just psychological "instant gratification" aspect (I thought before it was mostly that), it is basic cash economics and it's rational - accept lower margin on existing inventory, as it is "perishable", needs to be maintained with interest payments, attended. When it's sold, it instantly frees capital, which you can engage in next volley of sale. Special order is money coming in the future - there is no urgency, there is no capital commitment, i.e. risk, so no reason to go overly aggressive on pricing. It literally, not just figuratively, hurts less when customer walks away from a not yet existing car, than from one that has to be supported by interest payments. All was lost is a little time of the salesman and sometimes manager. In that world, for guys like Craig, I'm an annoyance, taking his time, prickley guy who doesn't want his grey Civic, cause I just set my heart on red, which nobody has in 1000 mile radius (I'm saying with all the love, I know that's the way, Craig said it many times in a little less "pointed" way, but still quite bluntly).

BMW is even worse, as theoretical combinations are endless (they price themselves on it), but Sales Manager's imagination is quite limited, biased by his own color tastes, prejudice, history of what sold in last year/quarter. You can see those tastes, as you move from inventory in one place to another, ten-twenty miles apart and it can be, oh so different. Then you hear "we keep what sells". I call malarkey - it's what the manager thinks will sell. There is a confirmation bias there, as ultimately they sell what they have - they can track number of days in stock. However, if the choices are what they are, customers need to walk with a vehicle today, not in three months, they'll ultimately buy what's there, confirming that "it sells". Units similar to those sitting on the lot the longest will get booted out next time. In many ways, it's also what the manager thinks about his customers. That's visible especially when one guy has almost all particular model units at a certain price point and another has them all at 5-10 grand less or more. I have seen that, too.

Well you've certainly oversimplified thing here.

Any store that is financially healthy doesn't look at inventory as a liability since they paid cash for it. If it's financed, yes the pressure for a quick turn is amplified.

As far as being a "prickley guy", I didn't mind them as long as they were realistic. If there were no red Civics wthin 1000 miles, then it's time to get realistic and maybe settle for something else. Bear in mind that if I DO have an incoming red Civic and I can see it's the only one in the entire district you probably won't get it for the same price that we would sell you a much more popular grey one that we have 20 in stock. Make sense?

Also, you greatly underestimate the brains and abilities of a good Sales Manager. A Sales Manager does NOT rely on his imagination, his own prejudice, color taste or bias. These guys deal in FACTS and experience! They order the cars that SELL, the cars that most buyers want. They order very few or the oddball colors or equipment packages that very few buyers are shopping for. This is hardly "malarkey"! It is good inventory management! If a Sales Manager is unable to do the things that it takes to move cars and make a decent profit they will be replaced by someone who can. Low volume salespeople are replaced for the same reason and this applies to any retail industry and for good reason!

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DCy1HN6Q-fE

berri

aba - look around, Florida doesn't look that bad right now in comparison.

explorerx4

@fezo,
Last Sunday, I just asked the big guy upstairs about you. Next thing I know you post here again.
I guess your guardian angel got forwarded the message.

berri

He's New Jersey, so he's tough Hang in there Fezo