Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fintail

There are probably at least 100 examples of ADL Prius lady in King county alone. I've never been to another place where there are so many slow plodding and timid-yet-aggressive drivers. A co-worker who drives a Prius C but definitely isn't a dawdler has a term for it - "Pri-holes"

Westbound 90 ramps at Factoria and Bellevue Way are a good spotting ground for vehicle operators (can't call them drivers) who merge at 45 and then make a beeline for the left lane. 405, especially south of Factoria, is another place that amazes me, people will do 45-50 in a 60 for no reason other than their timidity and obliviousness.

28firefighter said:

I was driving home from the airport on 518 to get to 99 yesterday. Speed limit 60. Right lane moving at a leisurely 45-50. So I move into the left and get stuck behind a Prius doing 47 and refusing to move over. 

This city. I swear. 

driver100

iluvmysephia1 said:

Thanks for the Duster material, driver. I bought that '73 Plymouth Gold Duster from my Dad in 1985. At that time we were happy to have it. When it's suspension system started big-time "wallowing" on I-5 I sold it. The family must've put a couple hundred thousand miles on the car by then.

The Duster had it's good points. They kept the costs down and it was pretty substantial for the money. That Chryco Slant 6 seemed to be indestructable until they brought out the Aspens. My parents had a Plymouth Scamp for a second car and I really liked that car, PS and PBs made a big difference, and I liked the design, square with big windows all around.

driver100

isellhondas said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

The OEM parts alone from BMW cost more than that. We're talking about two different approaches to solving the problem I think--one is how you or I might personally cope with it, the other (the one I mentioned) is what happens when some guy who owns a 750iL takes it to a shop or dealer. Where I live that's what he pays.

Wrong. MSRP(which virtually no one pays) Per DCSnet:

Front Rotor(2): 34116756090 $236.74
Front Pads: 34111162535 $117.42
Guide Bushes: 34216869617 $40.78
Rear Rotor(2): 34211162967 $174.34
Rear Pads: 34211160198 $98.68
Guide Bushes: 34211158578 $33.13
Pad Sensors(2): 34351179820 $37.22
Rotor Screw(2): 34111123072 $2.10
$740.58
So you are saying that a dealer or good indie shop in your area charges $1060 labor for a simple brake job?
That is way beyond insane.

our labor rate is $165 an hour so that's six hours and your list doesn't seem the same as mine. So that probably explains our different numbers.

Also the indie shops I know will install aftermarket for some things but insist on OEM on others....like electronics

I'll bite...what is a "guide bush?"

Not sure you want to know

driver100

I don't know if I explained about the off center steering wheel in the Chevette very well. This explains it pretty well;


When I started selling cars, in 1983, we had real jewels like the Chevrolet Citation, Celebrity and Chevette. Believe me when I say that GM was already lost in the 1980’s. The best new car models they could produce would be the Lumina, Corsica and Beretta.

The test drive in a Chevette was an experience. You had to be a contortionist because the driver’s seat did not sit square. It wasn’t exactly facing the front. The steering wheel came at you from an angle and it was off center. So much so that your right hand would be about two inches closer to your body than your left. For the driver it all came together with the hump in the floor from the transmission, remember the Chevette was still rear wheel drive. So all of the pedals were offset to the left. So your driving position was crooked, with your upper torso twisted to the right and your legs twisted to the left and your arms at two different lengths, in other words, a chiropractors dream.

I looked out and saw a nice couple looking at one of the last new Chevettes. After a short presentation and very little investigation we went for a test drive. I’m in the back seat, the Chevette routine starts. I place my left foot on a rattle. I place my right hand on a wind noise. Something else is making noise so I put my right foot on it and finally my left hand is keeping the rear window from whistling. All I can think about is how bad this test drive is going.

We pull back into the dealership I start to apologize…but I don’t. I follow my training and in an upbeat tone I ask “well how did you like it?” To my amazement they started saying things like, “nice ride” and “good acceleration” and “nice and quiet”. Standing in disbelief all I could do was ask, “What did you drive here in?


btw....is that actually a brake pedal down below?

jmonroe

driver100 said:

I don't know if I explained about the off center steering wheel in the Chevette very well. This explains it pretty well;


When I started selling cars, in 1983, we had real jewels like the Chevrolet Citation, Celebrity and Chevette. Believe me when I say that GM was already lost in the 1980’s. The best new car models they could produce would be the Lumina, Corsica and Beretta.

The test drive in a Chevette was an experience. You had to be a contortionist because the driver’s seat did not sit square. It wasn’t exactly facing the front. The steering wheel came at you from an angle and it was off center. So much so that your right hand would be about two inches closer to your body than your left. For the driver it all came together with the hump in the floor from the transmission, remember the Chevette was still rear wheel drive. So all of the pedals were offset to the left. So your driving position was crooked, with your upper torso twisted to the right and your legs twisted to the left and your arms at two different lengths, in other words, a chiropractors dream.

I looked out and saw a nice couple looking at one of the last new Chevettes. After a short presentation and very little investigation we went for a test drive. I’m in the back seat, the Chevette routine starts. I place my left foot on a rattle. I place my right hand on a wind noise. Something else is making noise so I put my right foot on it and finally my left hand is keeping the rear window from whistling. All I can think about is how bad this test drive is going.

We pull back into the dealership I start to apologize…but I don’t. I follow my training and in an upbeat tone I ask “well how did you like it?” To my amazement they started saying things like, “nice ride” and “good acceleration” and “nice and quiet”. Standing in disbelief all I could do was ask, “What did you drive here in?


btw....is that actually a brake pedal down below?

Nah, that's a Please Help Me Pedal.

jmonroe

stickguy

nice picture of the duster interior. Swap the bench for buckets, and that was my HS car. 3 speed on the floor, manual steering, manual drum brakes. You actually got involved physically driving that car!

driver100

stickguy said:

nice picture of the duster interior. Swap the bench for buckets, and that was my HS car. 3 speed on the floor, manual steering, manual drum brakes. You actually got involved physically driving that car!

Ah, more like this;


Very attractive for a low priced car. The Dodge Demon I drove, which was a friends, made me think I would definitely pay for PS and PBs if I was to buy one..........

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

My dad had a Demon for a short while, dipped his toes into the used car business.
It was Petty blue and had a 340 in it.

I had a chance to buy a 1970 340 a Duster 4 speed when I was in college for $1000. Chickened out and found out later it was badly beat. To this day I 'm afraid of used performance cars.

stickguy

I would love a 340 duster 4 speed now as a toy. sadly, even those are probably beyond my budget these days, since it would have to be a pure toy, 3rd car.

iluvmysephia1

The old Demon and Duster body styles were actually pretty cool. I liked the Duster's more, but they were similar. That Slant 6 was peppy and fun.

Sandman6472

My lawn guy charges $25/cut and cuts every other Monday. Been paying that for years and years. Does a decent job and most importantly, shows up! Since we never had to do the lawn work as kids, lawn guy up north also was the plow guy during the winter, and my folks were more than happy to pay him to do that work. When we moved down here, they hired a lawn guy and that was that. My neighbors on each side do their own but on the street as a whole, probably a 50/50 split on folks who hire it out and those that diy. Our city is very picky about the way houses look so most homes look nicely kept.

The Sandman

Sandman6472

At the post office, we had red Chevelle's and they were pitiful in every respect! Hated when I had to deliver mail out of it and even with one's foot pushing the accelerator all the way down, it just was so sloooowwww!!! Just a dismal vehicle!

The Sandman

roadburner

isellhondas said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

The OEM parts alone from BMW cost more than that. We're talking about two different approaches to solving the problem I think--one is how you or I might personally cope with it, the other (the one I mentioned) is what happens when some guy who owns a 750iL takes it to a shop or dealer. Where I live that's what he pays.

Wrong. MSRP(which virtually no one pays) Per DCSnet:

Front Rotor(2): 34116756090 $236.74
Front Pads: 34111162535 $117.42
Guide Bushes: 34216869617 $40.78
Rear Rotor(2): 34211162967 $174.34
Rear Pads: 34211160198 $98.68
Guide Bushes: 34211158578 $33.13
Pad Sensors(2): 34351179820 $37.22
Rotor Screw(2): 34111123072 $2.10
$740.58
So you are saying that a dealer or good indie shop in your area charges $1060 labor for a simple brake job?
That is way beyond insane.

our labor rate is $165 an hour so that's six hours and your list doesn't seem the same as mine. So that probably explains our different numbers.

Also the indie shops I know will install aftermarket for some things but insist on OEM on others....like electronics

I'll bite...what is a "guide bush?"

It's the bushing that locates the caliper pins in a floating caliper; it's a good practice to replace them as worn bushes can cause uneven pad wear.

roadburner

I had a friend who drove a 1974 Duster 360 in the mid '70s. It would run a 10 second 1/8th mile- about the same as a '74 Z28. We thought that was REALLY fast in the dark days of the low performance era. Now a truly quick 1/8th mile street car has to run in the low 8s or the high 7s.

driver100

Stick....regarding your trip to Toronto: Be sure to check things to do in Toronto at tripadvisor.com. They will send you ideas every once in awhile. I got some interesting ones this morning, which I will just list,
*Original Haunted Walk of Toronto
*Private Tour of Niagara Falls from Toronto (private limo)
*Luxury Private Tour of Niagara Falls From ...this includes a trip that goes under the Falls - we live an hour away and I haven't done this but people like it. You walk behind the falling water, it would be a blast if you guys were smashed!
*14-Minute Helicopter Tour Over Toronto - there is a 7 minute and a 14 minute ride offered.....also a blast if you guys were smashed....get to barf over the city of Toronto!

iluvmysephia1

Our son in PHX just scored a new to him 2002 Buick Park Avenue. White with a 3.8L V6, I thought the car would be RWD, I thought wrong, it's FWD. His has 140,000 miles on it. He's digging it so far. Purchase price? $800.

iluvmysephia1

A look at the rear of it. His Dad buys foreign 4 cyl. economy cars and he favors the "old man cars" like this. I really hope he likes this one and it lasts.

His comment - "Well, for $800 if I can drive it for 6 months, great."

The rear view - these are stock photos, not his, color and car are correct. Leather interior in good shape. Seller has 18 cars, wants to pare down to 9. Really undervalues his rigs, we're thinking. He doesn't beat them up, it appears. His needs a new front tire, apparently.

driver100

That is a bargoooon iluv.....I bet oldfarmer is crying in his beer over losing that one. Like your son says....if he drives it for 6 months it is like about $120 a month to drive using the Driver Method of financing....less than renting a car for a few days.
You see a lot of those big older Buicks around so they really hold up. I don't know why they last so well while their sister cars, Impalas, Bonnevilles and Olds's just didn't last as long.
The only thing I would do is go to a junk yard and get some original wheel discs, the ones on it are too blingy....look like they are trying too hard.

roadburner

If he enjoys driving it, $800 is a screaming bargain. Now if it was a Regal GS I could easily live with it; Park Avenues give me flashbacks of being forced to drive my father in law's excruciatingly tacky Buicks.

bwia

driver100 said:

I don't know if I explained about the off center steering wheel in the Chevette very well. This explains it pretty well;


When I started selling cars, in 1983, we had real jewels like the Chevrolet Citation, Celebrity and Chevette. Believe me when I say that GM was already lost in the 1980’s. The best new car models they could produce would be the Lumina, Corsica and Beretta.

The test drive in a Chevette was an experience. You had to be a contortionist because the driver’s seat did not sit square. It wasn’t exactly facing the front. The steering wheel came at you from an angle and it was off center. So much so that your right hand would be about two inches closer to your body than your left. For the driver it all came together with the hump in the floor from the transmission, remember the Chevette was still rear wheel drive. So all of the pedals were offset to the left. So your driving position was crooked, with your upper torso twisted to the right and your legs twisted to the left and your arms at two different lengths, in other words, a chiropractors dream.<

We pull back into the dealership I start to apologize…but I don’t. I follow my training and in an upbeat tone I ask “well how did you like it?” To my amazement they started saying things like, “nice ride” and “good acceleration” and “nice and quiet”. Standing in disbelief all I could do was ask, “What did you drive here in?


btw....is that actually a brake pedal down below?

Yes, it is for left foot braking.

oldfarmer50

iluvmysephia1 said:

Our son in PHX just scored a new to him 2002 Buick Park Avenue. White with a 3.8L V6, I thought the car would be RWD, I thought wrong, it's FWD. His has 140,000 miles on it. He's digging it so far. Purchase price? $800.

Great buy for such a clean car. The intake gaskets must have already been replaced or it never would have made it to that milage. Still, have him keep an eye on coolant level as replacement gaskets have been known to fail too. Otherwise it's a 200,000 mile car all day.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

That is a bargoooon iluv.....I bet oldfarmer is crying in his beer over losing that one. Like your son says....if he drives it for 6 months it is like about $120 a month to drive using the Driver Method of financing....less than renting a car for a few days.
You see a lot of those big older Buicks around so they really hold up. I don't know why they last so well while their sister cars, Impalas, Bonnevilles and Olds's just didn't last as long.
The only thing I would do is go to a junk yard and get some original wheel discs, the ones on it are too blingy....look like they are trying too hard.

The price is certainly right in my wheelhouse. The old farmer method of car valuation figures that you need to get 1000 miles of use for each hundred you pay. In this case 8,000 miles will prove it to be a great buy.

iluvmysephia1

Yeah, I'll be reminding him to hit the maintenance as hard as his Dad does on his. Emphasis on the coolant level. I'd suggest oil changes every 3,000-4,000 miles max, too. Will be interesting ta see how his Park Avenue burns or drips oil.

The 2011 Kia Soul just had it's oil changed yesterday afternoon. We're at about 83,233 miles now on the 5-speed stick.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

You see a lot of those big older Buicks around so they really hold up. I don't know why they last so well while their sister cars, Impalas, Bonnevilles and Olds's just didn't last as long.

Much of that involves who the type of owner is. If well cared for, they last like the Buicks to which you allude. If driven until 10000 miles for an oil change and then put in the cheapest oil and the cheapest filter, the owner gets what they paid for. It's my opinion the owners who have bought some other brands tend to take better care of them for various reasons which I won't start into here or channels will start changing.

driver100 said:

The only thing I would do is go to a junk yard and get some original wheel discs, the ones on it are too blingy....look like they are trying too hard.

I totally agree. The gray clear coated wheels you posted look better than the bling. I can guess that the original wheels were the beautiful chrome wheels and they aged without being cared for. The sealing area on the rims corroded because of moisture and salts between the bead and the rim. Because of lack of care of the wheels, the plating of the chrome gets a pit and then starts loosening from the base material. So the owners replace them.

iluvmysephia1

Yep - I'll ask for side view pics to get a look at the wheel covers. I don't mind the fake chrome shiny look, actually...I know wheels can affect overall look, but if they're intact and not beat up, I'm fine with them.

Now, if I get a new Mitsubishi, Kia Rio, Toyota Yaris iA, etc., I'm gonna pick factory alloys that I love. If not, I'll swap 'em out shortly after purchase, yes. New or newer cars or trucks need cool wheels. I usually dig the manufacturer's offers with new rig wheels.

Toyota did done well with the iA wheels, me thinks.

driver100

Whatever you do......don't get these wheels;

driver100

Or these wheels, but he did something interesting with the rear doors;

iluvmysephia1

I don't like the oversized wheels like that! Spikes. Great way ta ruin an old classic or a feisty new car!

Yeah, he suicide-doored his Park Avenue!

thebean

iluvmysephia1 said:

I don't like the oversized wheels like that! Spikes. Great way ta ruin an old classic or a feisty new car!

Yeah, he suicide-doored his Park Avenue!

You're right iluv, that's tacky! But the suicide doors are intriguing. Congrats to your son on the new Park Avenue. Really a great bargain.

abacomike

Adages to live by:

When I was in the hospital and rehabilitation for three months last year, I gave much thought to life, death and the emotional impact my environment has had on my feelings and thoughts. I wanted to share some of these feelings and thoughts with all of you - I hope it fills a need you might have.

Happiness is knowing your limitations and living comfortably within them!

Love is a strong emotional connection to another human being - don't mistake love for anything else!

Anger is an internal emotion of frustration and aversion - don't allow it to rule your life!

Hate is as strong an emotion as love - just an example of the "dark side" vs. the "light side"!

Loneliness is related to emptiness - it "begs" to be filled with other human beings or a great pet dog!

Satisfaction is a dangerous sense or feeling - it limits the beholder from growing emotionally!

Loss is related to loneliness - it, too, begs to be filled with others or a great pet dog!

Poverty is not measured by what you don't have, but rather by what you choose not to have!

Anxiety is a fear of what one feels "might" happen, not what will "actually" happen!

Pain can be sensory or emotional - both sources are equally debilitating!

Success is measured differently for every individual - it's the perspective that determines its relativity!

Respect for another or an institution is acquired only by trust through personal experiences!

iluvmysephia1

Thanks, thebean, on our son's Buick acquisition. He told me it has grey leather seats. Just one "crease fold imperfection" on the driver's seat. He said something about a cover of some kind for it.

driver100

I love those Mike. I agree totally with all of those thoughts, and everyone should read them. I am going to save them and look at them from time to time. Maybe use them in a speech if I have to make one one day.

Truly though, I like them and some really hit home.

fintail

I think those big old GM cars have a following as cheap comfortable transportation. They might not be state of the art, but if you keep up the maintenance and address the problem areas, they seem solid.

My uncle recently sold a 98 LeSabre. Something like 160K on it, he owned it for years. It had the intake gasket repair, which cost him what seemed to be a fortune, but he liked the car. It had a dent on the front driver's fender from a run in with a parking structure pole, and was clean, but far from mint. I helped him sell it, put it on CL for $1900. Someone came to check it out, offered $1600, and that was that. For a work/winter/young person's car, you could do worse.

driver100

and there are a ton of them in Florida......seems to be the car of choice down there, usually come with a vinyl roof , white walls and spoke wheels.

fintail

Luckily my uncle's car didn't have the "Full Florida" or "Jersey Package"

It had a metal roof, alloy style wheels, and an inoffensive cloth interior. Kind of had an ex-rental vibe to it - he picked up as a not-too-old used car fairly cheap, maybe it was.

sda

driver100 said:

and there are a ton of them in Florida......seems to be the car of choice down there, usually come with a vinyl roof , white walls and spoke wheels.

And that rocking chair ride..

roadburner

My favorite adage is:
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

I think those big old GM cars have a following as cheap comfortable transportation. They might not be state of the art, but if you keep up the maintenance and address the problem areas, they seem solid.

My uncle recently sold a 98 LeSabre. Something like 160K on it, he owned it for years. It had the intake gasket repair, which cost him what seemed to be a fortune, but he liked the car. It had a dent on the front driver's fender from a run in with a parking structure pole, and was clean, but far from mint. I helped him sell it, put it on CL for $1900. Someone came to check it out, offered $1600, and that was that. For a work/winter/young person's car, you could do worse.

Same with my son's 98 LaSabre. His was rusted out pretty good by the time he sold it for about $750. A few miles less than that Park Ave. but much worse body.

abacomike

driver100 said:

I love those Mike. I agree totally with all of those thoughts, and everyone should read them. I am going to save them and look at them from time to time. Maybe use them in a speech if I have to make one one day.

Truly though, I like them and some really hit home.

I am happy they meant something to you!

fintail

You should visit out west. Cars of that age are virtually unknown to have rust. I don't think I've seen any local car from the late 90s with rust.

oldfarmer50 said:

Same with my son's 98 LaSabre. His was rusted out pretty good by the time he sold it for about $750. A few miles less than that Park Ave. but much worse body.

stickguy

OF lives in the area where cars rot so fast you can watch it happen in real time. No time delay needed.

abacomike

fintail said:

You should visit out west. Cars of that age are virtually unknown to have rust. I don't think I've seen any local car from the late 90s with rust.

Same with my son's 98 LaSabre. His was rusted out pretty good by the time he sold it for about $750. A few miles less than that Park Ave. but much worse body.

I agree, fintail.  When I lived in California, mostly in the Mojave Desert, it was commonplace for people who owned cars that were 10-20 years old to be completely free of rust or decay.  So long as a car owner did consistent preventive maintenance on their car(s), they would perform nicely for 100,000+ miles.

On the other hand, cars along the east coast or even the Midwest all seemed to show the aftermath of salted winter roads.  

suydam

abacomike said:

fintail said:

You should visit out west. Cars of that age are virtually unknown to have rust. I don't think I've seen any local car from the late 90s with rust.

Same with my son's 98 LaSabre. His was rusted out pretty good by the time he sold it for about $750. A few miles less than that Park Ave. but much worse body.

I agree, fintail.  When I lived in California, mostly in the Mojave Desert, it was commonplace for people who owned cars that were 10-20 years old to be completely free of rust or decay.  So long as a car owner did consistent preventive maintenance on their car(s), they would perform nicely for 100,000+ miles.

On the other hand, cars along the east coast or even the Midwest all seemed to show the aftermath of salted winter roads.  

Oh but those sandblasted paint jobs from that era. Heat and dust are pretty hard on vehicles too.

fintail

No heat and dust here, more like mildew and moss.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

and there are a ton of them in Florida......seems to be the car of choice down there, usually come with a vinyl roof , white walls and spoke wheels.

What's the matter with spoke wheels?

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

You should visit out west. Cars of that age are virtually unknown to have rust. I don't think I've seen any local car from the late 90s with rust.

oldfarmer50 said:

Same with my son's 98 LaSabre. His was rusted out pretty good by the time he sold it for about $750. A few miles less than that Park Ave. but much worse body.

That's why you frequently see me post my fantasy hoopties from the Tampa area. It's rare to see a 15 yo car in upstate NY without rust unless it was stored in winter. My wife's 8 yo car has only 36k miles and already is showing rust.

Of course that could just be Chrysler's build quality. By 2009 I think they were cheaping out to the extreme.

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

You should visit out west. Cars of that age are virtually unknown to have rust. I don't think I've seen any local car from the late 90s with rust.

oldfarmer50 said:

Same with my son's 98 LaSabre. His was rusted out pretty good by the time he sold it for about $750. A few miles less than that Park Ave. but much worse body.

That's why you frequently see me post my fantasy hoopties from the Tampa area. It's rare to see a 15 yo car in upstate NY without rust unless it was stored in winter. My wife's 8 yo car has only 36k miles and already is showing rust.

Of course that could just be Chrysler's build quality. By 2009 I think they were cheaping out to the extreme.

Cerberus didn't do Chrysler any favors and just about ruined them. Not sure about current ownership either. sad

tjc78

I haven't driven a new Chrysler/Dodge since I had a Town and Country rental probably 7 years ago.  I seem to remember it being fine.  They can't be any worse.   Problem is except for the Durango and Grand Cherokee I couldn't seem myself driving any of their cars.  Just nothing I really like.  The 300 is ok, and way back when they first came out I drove the HEMI model.  That was certainly quick.  

If they want to start gaining market share they need a dynamite midsize car and compact.  Both of those entries typically fall in the bottom of the segment.  Heck one local dealer here still has new leftover 2015 (not a typo) 200s.  Who would buy them now?  May as well make them service loaners.  

cdnpinhead

oldfarmer50 said:

What's the matter with spoke wheels?

My guess is he's talking about what I always called wire wheels, like my MGB had, with knockoffs, yet. Real wire wheels cost a fortune, but the chintzy wheel covers meant to look like them, not so much.

iluvmysephia1

These 2017 Chevy Spark's wheels are lame, huh?
I actually kind of like the new Spark body design, I must admit to.

Small is my favorite...though Kia Soul small is safer and roomier.