Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

It's pretty simple - hide the fact that you are driving a small engine model. Especially lately, trim packages can be quite similar, with the engine-related badge being a key determinant about the car. Remove it, and people don't know what it is. [snip]



Debadging has been a thing in Europe for at least 40 years. I have even seen debadged fintails.

So I get that - you buy the cheapest-level C-class or whatever and want people to think it is something more expensive. But if I buy a C450 or whatever, why would I do that?



I see guys over in the Cadillac groups with ATS-Vs that cost $60K debadging and plasti-dipping parts. It makes them look just awful IMO.

I think plasti-dipping anything makes it look awful. Not only is it unattractive in it's own right but it makes you wonder what awful stuff it's covering up.

I plastidipped my Fit's plastic hubcaps. Granted, it is not exactly tragic to cover up cheap wheel covers. 

My buddy's Crossfire had the wheels powder coated black by the previous owner. Funny thing is that two of them leak air and can't be balanced. Totally wrong for a car like that and you wonder what they were covering up.

Plasti-dipping plastic hubcaps on a Fit? I'd have to see a picture but I'm guessing I wouldn't like it unless it was a fancy color like green or blue or red.

fordfool

nyccarguy said:

Some de-badging looks clean to me, but it isn't something I'd do.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth de-badging was called
nosing and decking, and was considered quite kool.

fintail

I wouldn't debadge my modern car, I am pleased that it is a Bluetec. The old car, being a 220SE, is rare for that, so the badge stays too.

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

It's pretty simple - hide the fact that you are driving a small engine model. Especially lately, trim packages can be quite similar, with the engine-related badge being a key determinant about the car. Remove it, and people don't know what it is. [snip]





Debadging has been a thing in Europe for at least 40 years. I have even seen debadged fintails.

So I get that - you buy the cheapest-level C-class or whatever and want people to think it is something more expensive. But if I buy a C450 or whatever, why would I do that?





I see guys over in the Cadillac groups with ATS-Vs that cost $60K debadging and plasti-dipping parts. It makes them look just awful IMO.

I think plasti-dipping anything makes it look awful. Not only is it unattractive in it's own right but it makes you wonder what awful stuff it's covering up.

I plastidipped my Fit's plastic hubcaps. Granted, it is not exactly tragic to cover up cheap wheel covers. 

My buddy's Crossfire had the wheels powder coated black by the previous owner. Funny thing is that two of them leak air and can't be balanced. Totally wrong for a car like that and you wonder what they were covering up.



Plasti-dipping plastic hubcaps on a Fit? I'd have to see a picture but I'm guessing I wouldn't like it unless it was a fancy color like green or blue or red.

I did em in black to match the rest of the black trim on the car.

 I seem to have deleted the pics off my phone. I did post them around here somewhere at the time. It didnt look great or anything, but I preferred it to stock.

Mr_Shiftright

houdini1 said:

abacomike said:

suydam said:

For many Europeans flaunting your wealth is in bad taste.

Hmmm, and here I thought that European food was quite delicious!  Go figure! 

People who flaunt their wealth are usually not that wealthy.

As Mark Twain said about prospecting: "NOTHING that glitters is gold".

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

suydam said:

For many Europeans flaunting your wealth is in bad taste.

That is a good point......you should do it discreetly like you are trying not to do it.

Really? Do you know anyone in here like that?

jmonroe

Yeh, some guy who drives a Genesis when he could buy the real thing.

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

isellhondas said:

graphicguy said:

Just finished up some meetings in Milwaukee. Weather is really pleasant here....high '70s and sunny.

Something that's a first for me, Hertz put me in a Honda CRV as a rental. I don't know that I've ever seen a Honda "anything" as a rental. I know Craig has said many times that Honda doesn't do fleet sales to rental car agencies. I'll assume Hertz ended up with the CRV as part of some sort of anomalie.

Anyway, not a bad little compact CUV. Engine is willing (although not very fast). Steering has good feel and is precise. Typical FWD understeer, though. Was surprised how well it road.

Brakes did well.

Transmission shifts smoothly and quickly up or down the range. Surprising amount of room in such a small package. Plenty of cubbies around and in the dash.

Base model, so not much in the way of equipment. But, it has power windows and locks. Lots and lots of hard plastics throughout. Nice padding on the center console and door arm rests.

Pretty comfortable. I can see the appeal.

A lot of appeal. Just a car that does most things right. We are on our 4th one now.

I've been gone seven years now so it's possible Honda has started selling cars direct to the rental companies but I doubt it. In the past I know some rental companies would buy cars through dealers but not often. Anything is possible.

I have seen C. R.V. s offered by rental compnies, and other cars not seen before. My guess is since the usual rental cars, like Impala and most Chrysler are backing out of the rental market the rental companies are forced to buy other brands.

Didn't the domestic companies sell to rental car companies because they had to produce more than they could sell due to union contracts?

Maybe Honda is in the same boat these days...or are they still non union? I know that Mitsubishi out in Indiana is a UAW shop.

you just took Mitsubishi out of consideration for me! We're the Evo MR's built with UAW labor?

Yeah, like you would ever buy a Mitsu.

abacomike

Speaking of rebadging, I can understand why some drivers might want to rebadge their vehicles or even remove some or all of its badging.  I have seen more of the latter (remove badging) on the streets and highways down here in South Florida, mostly on cars driven by young(er) drivers.

When I was in the car business appraising trades, I never really paid much attention to the badging on the car I was evaluating - the facts were in the VIN#.  The VIN identifies the model, make, year and now, even the major options on the car such as safety features.

When I contacted my insurance company to inform them of my new car, once I gave them the VIN, they immediately knew what options were added to the build - even knew the color of the paint.  Once a VIN is put into software used by manufacturers, insurance companies and of course CARFAX, all data about the car is listed.

I do know of several instances at my dealership when a car was appraised by new managers, mistakes were made because a CARFAX was not pulled and the appraiser relied on a given car's badging to determine trade value.  In those cases, the value of the trade was off by as much as $3000 over actual value.  

graphicguy

I had a dealer actually take a gauge to judge paint thickness to determine if my trade had been wrecked. I think it depends on the dealership, but I always ask for the "high end" of trade value, when I do trade. So, the dealerships want to make certain they've got a top notch car.

Same manager said on cars with low miles (almost always true of mine), late models (which mine almost all are) and relatively high(er) end brands (which mine have been recently), any alterations whatsoever are "dinged" in the trade evaluation.

He identified different wheels than stock, body modifications (de-badging was a "no-no"), engine modifications, etc all extracted a trade amount penalty.

stickguy

I've had dealers glance at the car brought the showroom window when coming up with a trade number

carnaught

For those X1 and X3 fans, I'm really impressed with this one:

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/first-drive-2018-alfa-romeo-stelvio

driver100

RE: Rebadging. When I worked for a major publishing company the experts wanted to promote our Sci - Fi line of paperback books. On the front cover across the top the wrote the words "science Fiction" in wavy letters. We all thought it looked great, but St - Fi readers hated it.

The reason (and I don't read Sci - Fi ) is because S - F readers are very savvy and very particular. They know the authors they like and they know what artists did the cover art. They don't like to be talked down to. They are knowledgeable and sophisticated.

Maybe the same with European drivers, maybe the see badges as dumbing down.

Mr_Shiftright

My, my, how expectations have changed. They describe the car as "obviously not a hot rod", and, alas, they managed to crawl to 60 mph in a snail-like 5.4 seconds. LOL!

driver100

So, we are in this ultra modern hotel in Bielefeld Germany which is close to where the Garry Weber tennis match will be. Our room is so modern, that the bed is in one room, then the bathroom runs parallel with it and the shower is on the back wall, right even with where our pills are on the bed. The shower is all glass and is complete walk in..........it even glasin for a width of about 4 feet and from floor to ceiling in the bed part of the room.....all that is clear glass - not frosted!

If someone is shy around their mate, this is not a good hotel to be in.

Mr_Shiftright

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

fintail

I think the new E63 is 0-60 in the mid 3s now. We've hit the point of diminishing returns.

Note to self: refrain from sharp steering wheel input in an old Sentra.

Mr_Shiftright

I think as technology speeds up, so do we. Someday, we'll be in the line at DMV, and a sign will say "You wait will be 3 seconds", and we'll react: "Oh, man, C'MON!"

fintail

Germany can be fun in that much of it is traditional looking, much is still addicted to insane bureaucracy, but some of it is like living in the future (like the trains, roads, some transit, etc). I remember a hotel in Munich that had this cool little kitchen area that was hidden in a wall, and power door opened it. I also remember a laundromat with machines that were like nothing I had seen, and a shower with computer controls.

driver100 said:

So, we are in this ultra modern hotel in Bielefeld Germany which is close to where the Garry Weber tennis match will be. Our room is so modern, that the bed is in one room, then the bathroom runs parallel with it and the shower is on the back wall, right even with where our pills are on the bed. The shower is all glass and is complete walk in..........it even glasin for a width of about 4 feet and from floor to ceiling in the bed part of the room.....all that is clear glass - not frosted!

If someone is shy around their mate, this is not a good hotel to be in.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

My, my, how expectations have changed. They describe the car as "obviously not a hot rod", and, alas, they managed to crawl to 60 mph in a snail-like 5.4 seconds. LOL!

I've always said that my stock Mazdaspeed 3-which also ran 0-60 in 5.4 seconds-really couldn't be considered to be fast by today's standards. A mid-5 second 0-60 isn't slow, but I'd say it's definitely no ball of fire- not with V8 ponycars clocking the 0-60 run in the high 3/low 4 second range.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

Now you see what I mean by lack of "the feel of the road" when driving some cars!

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

My, my, how expectations have changed. They describe the car as "obviously not a hot rod", and, alas, they managed to crawl to 60 mph in a snail-like 5.4 seconds. LOL!

It's amazing to think that at the start of the horsepower wars a dozen or so years ago a 5.4 0-60 was almost super car territory.

I often wonder what technology occured in the early 2000s that allowed the continuing bumps in horsepower within increasingly stringent emissions regulations.

roadburner

As far as the Stelvio itself goes, I'd consider one only on an extremely attractive lease. Ditto for the Giulia. Alfa sales are dead in the water and I have serious reservations about reliability as well as FCA's long-term viability.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

So, we are in this ultra modern hotel in Bielefeld Germany which is close to where the Garry Weber tennis match will be. Our room is so modern, that the bed is in one room, then the bathroom runs parallel with it and the shower is on the back wall, right even with where our pills are on the bed. The shower is all glass and is complete walk in..........it even glasin for a width of about 4 feet and from floor to ceiling in the bed part of the room.....all that is clear glass - not frosted!

If someone is shy around their mate, this is not a good hotel to be in.

With all that pickleball exercise you get I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

I saw that on the news, it was horrible. What's wrong with some people?

qbrozen

carnaught said:

For those X1 and X3 fans, I'm really impressed with this one:

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/first-drive-2018-alfa-romeo-stelvio

Nice. Looking forward to shopping for a used one.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Nice. Looking forward to shopping for a used one.

I'm guessing depreciation will make them well-nigh irresistible if they prove to be more durable than expected.

carnaught

qbrozen said:

carnaught said:

For those X1 and X3 fans, I'm really impressed with this one:

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/first-drive-2018-alfa-romeo-stelvio

Nice. Looking forward to shopping for a used one.

Yep, only would consider a used one, or what @roadburner said, with an extremely favorable lease, or if your in-laws owned the dealership.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

A soon as I think people can't become any less brain dead, I see something like this. Boo to both the car driver and the cycle driver.

Just saw a Mercedes C63 available at Hertz for rent. Who would have thought?

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

So, we are in this ultra modern hotel in Bielefeld Germany which is close to where the Garry Weber tennis match will be. Our room is so modern, that the bed is in one room, then the bathroom runs parallel with it and the shower is on the back wall, right even with where our pills are on the bed. The shower is all glass and is complete walk in..........it even glasin for a width of about 4 feet and from floor to ceiling in the bed part of the room.....all that is clear glass - not frosted!

If someone is shy around their mate, this is not a good hotel to be in.

With all that pickleball exercise you get I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.

OTOH.........it is a great shower if you are an exhibitionist.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

A soon as I think people can't become any less brain dead, I see something like this. Boo to both the car driver and the cycle driver.

Just saw a Mercedes C63 available at Hertz for rent. Who would have thought?

My buddy who works nights for Hertz says they have a lot of high end cars in their "executive" catagory. He drove a Mustang one night and drives many MBs as well.

And this is in a third-tier area as far as high rollers goes.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

A soon as I think people can't become any less brain dead, I see something like this. Boo to both the car driver and the cycle driver.

Just saw a Mercedes C63 available at Hertz for rent. Who would have thought?

My dealer is selling a bunch of 430i convertibles and X3s to Enterprise- some of the droptops are even M Sports...

explorerx4

the rental car companies have figured out that buying a cheap car helps up front, but they are worth nothing later because nobody wants them.

fintail

You should see rental fleets in Germany. Which AMG/M/RS car do you want? You can find them all.

jmonroe

abacomike said:

Speaking of rebadging, I can understand why some drivers might want to rebadge their vehicles or even remove some or all of its badging.  I have seen more of the latter (remove badging) on the streets and highways down here in South Florida, mostly on cars driven by young(er) drivers.

When I was in the car business appraising trades, I never really paid much attention to the badging on the car I was evaluating - the facts were in the VIN#.  The VIN identifies the model, make, year and now, even the major options on the car such as safety features.

When I contacted my insurance company to inform them of my new car, once I gave them the VIN, they immediately knew what options were added to the build - even knew the color of the paint.  Once a VIN is put into software used by manufacturers, insurance companies and of course CARFAX, all data about the car is listed.

I do know of several instances at my dealership when a car was appraised by new managers, mistakes were made because a CARFAX was not pulled and the appraiser relied on a given car's badging to determine trade value.  In those cases, the value of the trade was off by as much as $3000 over actual value.  

Oh, so now we know why they canned you.

jmonroe

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dlSqW5jyc1s

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

I saw that on the news, it was horrible. What's wrong with some people?

Well for one thing you have to be a real dummy to try and kick a car while on a motorcycle. Basic physics.

isellhondas

fordfool said:

nyccarguy said:

Some de-badging looks clean to me, but it isn't something I'd do.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth de-badging was called
nosing and decking, and was considered quite kool.

And headlights were "frenched" and hoods got louvered. Dummy spotlights were called Appletons.

Before my time of course....

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

I saw that on the news, it was horrible. What's wrong with some people?

Well for one thing you have to be a real dummy to try and kick a car while on a motorcycle. Basic physics.

What I thought was amazing was the fact the motorcycle didn't go down and got away after all of the carnage!

nyccarguy

isellhondas said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

I saw that on the news, it was horrible. What's wrong with some people?

Well for one thing you have to be a real dummy to try and kick a car while on a motorcycle. Basic physics.

What I thought was amazing was the fact the motorcycle didn't go down and got away after all of the carnage!

That was quite impressive.  

ab348

Dude driving the Sentra lost control too quick to take out the biker. Curious about what happened between them prior to what we saw.

fintail

More about rebadging, today I saw a C63 AMG with the badges either wrapped or plasti-dipped in body color (black) finish.

sda

I spent the first half of the day with my daughter as she got her learners permit. This evening I took her to a large parking lot where she drove for the first time. Much more instruction and practice needed but she did well. My girl is growing up!

28firefighter

Today was my last day of work at my old company and I finished the day early around 11. For my half day of funemployment, I decided to pick up some beer and spend the afternoon detailing the GTI.  It was the most relaxing afternoon I've had in quite some time.  

A couple pictures. 

Mr_Shiftright

isellhondas said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

I saw that on the news, it was horrible. What's wrong with some people?

Well for one thing you have to be a real dummy to try and kick a car while on a motorcycle. Basic physics.

What I thought was amazing was the fact the motorcycle didn't go down and got away after all of the carnage!

He's probably in cuffs now. Looks like the video ID'd him.

qbrozen

Wife came back from her biz trip with gifts for me

driver100

Great looking car FF. I really like those wheels and the red line along the front. Did you take the badges off?

Enjoy your break, having this break might feel like getting off of a fast moving merry go round.

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

isellhondas said:

graphicguy said:

Just finished up some meetings in Milwaukee. Weather is really pleasant here....high '70s and sunny.

Something that's a first for me, Hertz put me in a Honda CRV as a rental. I don't know that I've ever seen a Honda "anything" as a rental. I know Craig has said many times that Honda doesn't do fleet sales to rental car agencies. I'll assume Hertz ended up with the CRV as part of some sort of anomalie.

Anyway, not a bad little compact CUV. Engine is willing (although not very fast). Steering has good feel and is precise. Typical FWD understeer, though. Was surprised how well it road.

Brakes did well.

Transmission shifts smoothly and quickly up or down the range. Surprising amount of room in such a small package. Plenty of cubbies around and in the dash.

Base model, so not much in the way of equipment. But, it has power windows and locks. Lots and lots of hard plastics throughout. Nice padding on the center console and door arm rests.

Pretty comfortable. I can see the appeal.

A lot of appeal. Just a car that does most things right. We are on our 4th one now.

I've been gone seven years now so it's possible Honda has started selling cars direct to the rental companies but I doubt it. In the past I know some rental companies would buy cars through dealers but not often. Anything is possible.

I have seen C. R.V. s offered by rental compnies, and other cars not seen before. My guess is since the usual rental cars, like Impala and most Chrysler are backing out of the rental market the rental companies are forced to buy other brands.

Didn't the domestic companies sell to rental car companies because they had to produce more than they could sell due to union contracts?

Maybe Honda is in the same boat these days...or are they still non union? I know that Mitsubishi out in Indiana is a UAW shop.

you just took Mitsubishi out of consideration for me! We're the Evo MR's built with UAW labor?

Yeah, like you would ever buy a Mitsu.

Well, there are not a lot of sporty dual-clutch cars out there, so the EVO MR appealed to me a lot; however, I never drove one.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

isellhondas said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back to anger management class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40380154/california-road-rage-results-in-motorway-car-crash

I saw that on the news, it was horrible. What's wrong with some people?

Well for one thing you have to be a real dummy to try and kick a car while on a motorcycle. Basic physics.

What I thought was amazing was the fact the motorcycle didn't go down and got away after all of the carnage!

He's probably in cuffs now. Looks like the video ID'd him.

I think the most they'll get him for is a hit & run, if they are lucky, and that's just a slap on the wrist from what I've seen. I wish it were treated more seriously. Anyway, the guy on the motorcycle did kick the car, and that was his mistake, all the mistakes and fault for everything that happened after that lies with the pathetic driver of the sedan.

Also, what was up with the truck driver moving forward like nothing bad was clearly happening or about to happen?

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Wife came back from her biz trip with gifts for me

Nice! Our Barnes and Noble carries Classic Porsche and Top Gear- as well as serveral other British magazines; Autocar is not as easy to find. To save a bit of money and time searching I subscribe to BMW Car and Thoroughbred and Classic Car

roadburner

andres3 said:

Also, what was up with the truck driver moving forward like nothing bad was clearly happening or about to happen?

He/she was most likely a typical moronic US vehicle operator("driver" is much to generous a term); I'm guessing said operator was texting or phoning- and/or looking at the road only 10 feet in front of them.