Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

Happy New Year!

Both of my vehicles need washing, we have had several straight days of overcast and drizzle here in the Houston area, and the truck and the minivan both show the results. Today is nice and sunshiny, 61 degrees right now headed for 63 this afternoon. It would be a nice day to wash cars, except ... it's supposed to rain again tomorrow, so I think I'll just wait.

The biggest problem in the winter, as in right now, is the number of days with light rain or drizzle. You wind up with crud covering the bottom half of the vehicle every time you drive it. I hesitate to call it mud, I did a bit of 4-wheeling or mudding when I was younger, and this is not at all the same.

Florida is famous for a Florida car wash. Leave the car out in the rain and it comes out sparkling clean.

Yeah, but with a palm tree blown through the roof.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

@oldfarmer50 Poor Mitsubishi---such an easy target! Ultimately I tell people "Buy what you like".

I always try to give a car a fair test but in the end, I will sometimes "like" an awful car and dislike one that most people do like. I think it depends on what you want a car to do for you. My and my cars need an emotional bond which is probably why the quietly efficient or predictably practical types never get my heart racing. So for me a car can be fast and boring or slow and interesting. Go figure.

However, with motorcycles it's somewhat different for me. I have always liked to ride BMWs.

From what I’m reading of Mitsubishi's melding with so many other car companies it’s kind of lost it’s identity. For example, they say some of their future models will be based on the the Nissan Rouge. Reminds me of the various brands that combined to form American Motors years ago.

I’ve driven the Mirage on several occasions and while it’s not a car I would buy, I could see it being good for somebody who needed to get around on a small carbon footprint.

fintail

I'm of a similar opinion. Equating a Model S with an S or 7er is tenuous at best, IMO. Of course, I don't expect something to be completely objective if it comes from "cleantechnica". The two traditional barges and the Model S have different purposes, different sizes, and especially with the S, much higher transaction prices - and I won't even get into build quality or interior luxury, something the Model S has lacked.

I also recall the Model S almost didn't depreciate when it was a new thing, now those days are gone, and the 3 is a much more logical choice.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Ok! Aside from price, size and appointments, a Model S is a full-size luxury car. Agreed.

berri

Check, a lot of that cold windy weather blows across from the mid west.

Wait a minute Driver, that stuff almost all originates from Canada or the Gulf before it hits the Midwest. The worst is when the two crash into each other.

berri

ab, you need to hitch a ride with driver and his wife down to Florida while they blow their cold air into the States

ab348

berri said:

ab, you need to hitch a ride with driver and his wife down to Florida while they blow their cold air into the States

Odd, I associate him with hot air usually.

imidazol97

I thought of Driver and his wife Saturday when it was raining heavily and a pickup was towing a small, reasonable camper southbound on I75 with Canada plates and probably headed for Florida. I wonder if a small camper can be towed behind an E-class?

He was driving very carefully because of the wind in the rain.

driver100

berri said:

Check, a lot of that cold windy weather blows across from the mid west.

Wait a minute Driver, that stuff almost all originates from Canada or the Gulf before it hits the Midwest. The worst is when the two crash into each other.

It is true some of the worst storms are when they crash into each other.
A lot of the really bad snow storms and large amounts of rain started in the Gulf this year, and the moisture got swept up toward N.Y. State.
Cold weather that comes from the North originates in the Arctic, and flows over Canada into the USA, you can't blame that on us....don't shoot the messenger.....we are just the conduit for getting the cold air to you.
You can always build a wall!

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

Wishing a great 2019 to all the great members of this board here, and also to @jmonroe .

Was that to the original jmonroe or jmonroe1?

Don't laugh, I could have been @jmonroe2.

Last week I was having a problem logging on with my PC and was almost going to sign up again becoming @jmonroe2. Not being one that quits easily I FINALLY got the "Howdy Stranger" page which should be long gone by now but it ain't so that is how I got logged in.

I hope when Edmunds does their 2019 system upgrade they don't choose the low bidder again.

jmonroe

cdnpinhead

Hey, it's all seamless. Haven't you heard?

[Deleted User]

fintail said:

I'm of a similar opinion. Equating a Model S with an S or 7er is tenuous at best, IMO. Of course, I don't expect something to be completely objective if it comes from "cleantechnica". The two traditional barges and the Model S have different purposes, different sizes, and especially with the S, much higher transaction prices - and I won't even get into build quality or interior luxury, something the Model S has lacked.

I also recall the Model S almost didn't depreciate when it was a new thing, now those days are gone, and the 3 is a much more logical choice.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Ok! Aside from price, size and appointments, a Model S is a full-size luxury car. Agreed.

In 2015, the year of that used S, the base price of a BMW 740i was about $75,000 and the S 70D was $75,000 not including tax credits and rebates. The 7 Series went up to $141,000 for the 760 and the S went up to $108,000 for the P90D. How is the Tesla more expensive?

https://autotrader.com/Tesla/Model+S/2015

https://autotrader.com/BMW/7+Series/2015

And for the size argument, the 7 series was a few inches longer but a few inches more narrow than the S. The 7 series cargo is about 18 cubic feet while the Tesla has over 21 cubic feet. The S has much more power from the base to the top configurations. The S can fit 7 people (5 adults plus 2 kids) while the 7 Series is limited to 5.

Different purposes? Maybe. But the whole point is that large and expensive luxury cars depreciate...a lot.

oldfarmer50

Just heard a new term salesmen use to describe obnoxious customers. SLOW LEAKER.

They use this name for a customer who nit picks minor flaws in a car and uses them as bargaining chips to get a lower price or unreasonable repairs.

Have any of the sales folks here heard that one?

fintail

I didn't say the Model S was more expensive. The big German boats are usually more expensive, and yet they sell like hotcakes even with that higher price point. Maybe I was unclear: S = MB, Model S = Tesla.

How many Model S are P90D? I see mostly lesser models around here (those basic wheels scream it), with a fancier one here and there. I've never seen one holding 7 people, either, but maybe my anecdotes are limited to usage patterns in my area. I also see the S-class is being ignored - good luck getting out of the showroom with even a modestly optioned S560 for under 100K pretax, and even though it isn't a new design, MB seems to be able to sell every one they can make without the need to advertise. Weird. I don't know if 3 cubic feet of storage area is going too sway a buyer, I bet range does it first

Yes, expensive luxury depreciates like day old bread, especially when it isn't the latest thing anymore . Back in the day I recall seeing year old Model S for nearly original MSRP. Not anymore.

tyguy said:

In 2015, the year of that used S, the base price of a BMW 740i was about $75,000 and the S 70D was $75,000 not including tax credits and rebates. The 7 Series went up to $141,000 for the 760 and the S went up to $108,000 for the P90D. How is the Tesla more expensive?

https://autotrader.com/Tesla/Model+S/2015

https://autotrader.com/BMW/7+Series/2015

And for the size argument, the 7 series was a few inches longer but a few inches more narrow than the S. The 7 series cargo is about 18 cubic feet while the Tesla has over 21 cubic feet. The S has much more power from the base to the top configurations. The S can fit 7 people (5 adults plus 2 kids) while the 7 Series is limited to 5.

Different purposes? Maybe. But the whole point is that large and expensive luxury cars depreciate...a lot.

suydam

I’m not sure where you get the “Mercedes selling like hot cakes” idea, when Tesla sold 9,156 units of the Model S sedan, which is more sales than the Mercedes S-Class (4,921), and, while we’re at it, the BMW 7 Series (3,634) as well.

bwia

Speaking of Tesla, tomorrow my son-in-law is going to be driving his Model X from MD to Boston. In the past he has resisted the drive because of range anxiety.

I believe his observed mileage is about 238 miles on a full charge. Given this limitation I would guess the commute will add 2+ hours to the 8-hour normal trip time. Well, we'll leave the light on for him.

driver100

The 7 series cargo is about 18 cubic feet while the Tesla has over 21 cubic feet.

But that is cheating....that's counting the front trunk too.

Note: Found out later it is called a "frunk".

driver100

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla, tomorrow my son-in-law is going to be driving his Model X from MD to Boston. In the past he has resisted the drive because of range anxiety.

I believe his observed mileage is about 238 miles on a full charge. Given this limitation I would guess the commute will add 2+ hours to the 8-hour normal trip time. Well, we'll leave the light on for him.

That gets me, spend $100000 on a car and then have to figure out how you can take it on a 250 mile trip. Maybe I shouldn't turn on the a/c, maybe I should do some drafting behind this truck, oh, oh, traffic jam-could use to much energy and die on the highway, how far to the next charging station......these are problems I don't want or need.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla, tomorrow my son-in-law is going to be driving his Model X from MD to Boston. In the past he has resisted the drive because of range anxiety.

I believe his observed mileage is about 238 miles on a full charge. Given this limitation I would guess the commute will add 2+ hours to the 8-hour normal trip time. Well, we'll leave the light on for him.

That gets me, spend $100000 on a car and then have to figure out how you can take it on a 250 mile trip. Maybe I shouldn't turn on the a/c, maybe I should do some drafting behind this truck, oh, oh, traffic jam-could use to much energy and die on the highway, how far to the next charging station......these are problems I don't want or need.

Maybe carry a few extra batteries like gas cans.

stickguy

same here Driver. I worry about stuff that doesn't need to be worried about, so I certainly don't need real things that require it!

in theory, if range is a legit, with a cushion, 250 I would be fine for the 2nd car. Most of the time. Just not when I need to take it on a trip, which does happen. And one problem s if it is a new, nice car (like a Tesla) it is going to be the primary (aka expensive) one that should be doing all the travelling.

different story if we have a nice normal family vehicle, and the EV is truly just a local use runabout. That could be OK, but I would still be more likely to get a Hybrid with a gas engine. A plug in would barely use the gas engine most of the time.

bwia

The distance from his home in MD to Boston is 450 miles. Unfortunately, no EV vehicle can cover this distance on one charge but since most of the driving will be on route I-95 there should be some superchargers along the way.

Which brings up another problem. When he gets to my house he will have no way to charge overnight since I don't have a 220 V outlet. Oh well, he'll figure it out. 

tlong

driver100 said:

The 7 series cargo is about 18 cubic feet while the Tesla has over 21 cubic feet.

But that is cheating....that's counting the front trunk too.

Note: Found out later it is called a "frunk".

My air-cooled Beetle had a front trunk.

driver100

stickguy said:

same here Driver. I worry about stuff that doesn't need to be worried about, so I certainly don't need real things that require it!

in theory, if range is a legit, with a cushion, 250 I would be fine for the 2nd car. Most of the time. Just not when I need to take it on a trip, which does happen. And one problem s if it is a new, nice car (like a Tesla) it is going to be the primary (aka expensive) one that should be doing all the travelling.

different story if we have a nice normal family vehicle, and the EV is truly just a local use runabout. That could be OK, but I would still be more likely to get a Hybrid with a gas engine. A plug in would barely use the gas engine most of the time.

...and you know stick, I have thought that too....Mrs Ds car only goes about 3500 miles per year (unless the S-I-L takes it). So, she could probably have an EV, but, what if my car is out of commission and we are going on a long trip? I like to have the option of using the 2nd car. Not great renting a car with two fairly new cars at home.

And, 250 miles isn't two far on a return trip. That gives you 125 miles one way and then you have to make sure there is a charging station around the 125 mile mark. Like you stick, I try to eliminate stress from my life, so I am staying with gas for now - which is probably for the rest of my natural life...hybrid would be OK too.

driver100

bwia said:

The distance from his home in MD to Boston is 450 miles. Unfortunately, no EV vehicle can cover this distance on one charge but since most of the driving will be on route I-95 there should be some superchargers along the way.

Which brings up another problem. When he gets to my house he will have no way to charge overnight since I don't have a 220 V outlet. Oh well, he'll figure it out. 

Bwia......he is going to go 450 miles, a charge lasts for 238 miles, 238X2 = 476 miles.....that is cutting it close. He has to find a charging station exactly half way, and hope he doesn't get caught in road construction or needs extra heat or a/c (sometimes you need a/c on a sunny cold day). WOW....what could possibly go wrong?

imidazol97

I had trouble a few weeks ago with the system signing me in. I never did get back in on my Android cellphone. My XP laptop (I heard that laughing about my still using XP) had me locked out. But was a quirk in something in a change being made to the edmunds.com setup.

What I did learn is that my autocomplete on the url sometimes would fill in more than just the "forums.edmunds.com" which it would fill when I typed the first 6 characters. The laptop would have a forward slash and fill in the full URL of one of the pages. That would give me a login in the _middle_ of the page--not the "Howdy Stranger" that's on the right. So I just retype and make sure Windows doesn't autocomplete more than I wanted.

Also I learned that my Windows 10 laptop lost its memory of the login from the computer. But when I booted it up, the laptop showed me it was just finishing a Norton cleanup on the computer, where it apparently erases the file that does the auto logon remembering my password. Aha! That explains some of the anomalous times my computers would forget the logon.

So I feel your pain, @jmonroe1, in that I almost became imidazol98.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla, tomorrow my son-in-law is going to be driving his Model X from MD to Boston. In the past he has resisted the drive because of range anxiety.

I believe his observed mileage is about 238 miles on a full charge. Given this limitation I would guess the commute will add 2+ hours to the 8-hour normal trip time. Well, we'll leave the light on for him.

That gets me, spend $100000 on a car and then have to figure out how you can take it on a 250 mile trip. Maybe I shouldn't turn on the a/c, maybe I should do some drafting behind this truck, oh, oh, traffic jam-could use to much energy and die on the highway, how far to the next charging station......these are problems I don't want or need.

That's exactly why I'd prefer a Volt or other vehicle with an engine as well as the electric motor.

imidazol97

Not a source I usually spend much time reading, but the articles has its points.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-budget/345338-can-we-wean-elon-musk-off-government-support-already

sda

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla, tomorrow my son-in-law is going to be driving his Model X from MD to Boston. In the past he has resisted the drive because of range anxiety.

I believe his observed mileage is about 238 miles on a full charge. Given this limitation I would guess the commute will add 2+ hours to the 8-hour normal trip time. Well, we'll leave the light on for him.

That gets me, spend $100000 on a car and then have to figure out how you can take it on a 250 mile trip. Maybe I shouldn't turn on the a/c, maybe I should do some drafting behind this truck, oh, oh, traffic jam-could use to much energy and die on the highway, how far to the next charging station......these are problems I don't want or need.

That's exactly why I'd prefer a Volt or other vehicle with an engine as well as the electric motor.

I really like the Volt and its overall flexibility. The EV range is good for most on an everyday basis, but no worries if you go beyond it. There is an economical gas engine as back up, with thousands of readily available gas stations so you can fill up and keep you on your way.

ab348

tlong said:

My air-cooled Beetle had a front trunk.

So did my mid-engine '85 MR2.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

Check, a lot of that cold windy weather blows across from the mid west. Wait a minute Driver, that stuff almost all originates from Canada or the Gulf before it hits the Midwest. The worst is when the two crash into each other.

It is true some of the worst storms are when they crash into each other. A lot of the really bad snow storms and large amounts of rain started in the Gulf this year, and the moisture got swept up toward N.Y. State. Cold weather that comes from the North originates in the Arctic, and flows over Canada into the USA, you can't blame that on us....don't shoot the messenger.....we are just the conduit for getting the cold air to you. You can always build a wall!

I really not that bothered by that weather stuff, just keep your #$%^ geese on your side of the border.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

Just heard a new term salesmen use to describe obnoxious customers. SLOW LEAKER.

They use this name for a customer who nit picks minor flaws in a car and uses them as bargaining chips to get a lower price or unreasonable repairs.

Have any of the sales folks here heard that one?

I know whenever I’ve sold a used car and a potential buyer starts pointing out minor flaws, I remind them that the reason it’s priced much less than a new car is because it’s used. If they want a perfect car, go see the new car dealer.

MITSUBISHI....when did they lose their way? I remember they used to make interesting cars and trucks.....AWD turbo Gallants, turbo Eclipse, EVO, and a pretty good stab at the Japanese luxury market with the Diamonte. Not sure what happened. It’s not like they are a small company who can’t build good vehicles. They proved that they could. Plus, they are a huge conglomerate.

snakeweasel

jmonroe1 said:

Wishing a great 2019 to all the great members of this board here, and also to @jmonroe .

Was that to the original jmonroe or jmonroe1?

Don't laugh, I could have been @jmonroe2. Last week I was having a problem logging on with my PC and was almost going to sign up again becoming @jmonroe2. Not being one that quits easily I FINALLY got the "Howdy Stranger" page which should be long gone by now but it ain't so that is how I got logged in. I hope when Edmunds does their 2019 system upgrade they don't choose the low bidder again. jmonroe

While I haven't had issues like that I have, just on case, signed up as "snakeweasel 2", "snakeweasel3", "snakeweasel returns", "son of snakeweasel" and "snakeweasel lives".

but seriously I had major issues on the first day and I did sign up as (I think) snakeweasel1, their are a post or two from that handle here but haven't used it since I got this one straightened out.

fintail

In a way, that could be a solution - easily switchable batteries. If one could pull up to a battery station and swap out batteries in 10 minutes, it would be a huge game changer. But battery stations probably won't be cheap to build.

oldfarmer50 said:

Maybe carry a few extra batteries like gas cans.

fintail

I am not sure how that is an apples to apples comparison, when the MB especially is a larger car with a significantly higher price point. Oh my, they sold more Avalons than Lexus LS, too

Also, no wacky trickle down tax gift for the traditional barges. After that, we can compare global sales.

suydam said:

I’m not sure where you get the “Mercedes selling like hot cakes” idea, when Tesla sold 9,156 units of the Model S sedan, which is more sales than the Mercedes S-Class (4,921), and, while we’re at it, the BMW 7 Series (3,634) as well.

fintail

The Randians and libertarians are all over those comments, lol.

The tax gift gets me most. IMO those laying down 6 figures on a car don't need an often 5 figure break.

imidazol97 said:

Not a source I usually spend much time reading, but the articles has its points.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-budget/345338-can-we-wean-elon-musk-off-government-support-already

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

Speaking of Tesla, tomorrow my son-in-law is going to be driving his Model X from MD to Boston. In the past he has resisted the drive because of range anxiety.

I believe his observed mileage is about 238 miles on a full charge. Given this limitation I would guess the commute will add 2+ hours to the 8-hour normal trip time. Well, we'll leave the light on for him.

That gets me, spend $100000 on a car and then have to figure out how you can take it on a 250 mile trip. Maybe I shouldn't turn on the a/c, maybe I should do some drafting behind this truck, oh, oh, traffic jam-could use to much energy and die on the highway, how far to the next charging station......these are problems I don't want or need.

That's exactly why I'd prefer a Volt or other vehicle with an engine as well as the electric motor.

I have to agree with you. I am seriously considering a plug in hybrid for my next car. Most have the range to do my daily round trip on electric power but have the gas for longer trips.

snakeweasel

fintail said:

In a way, that could be a solution - easily switchable batteries. If one could pull up to a battery station and swap out batteries in 10 minutes, it would be a huge game changer. But battery stations probably won't be cheap to build.

Maybe carry a few extra batteries like gas cans.

I believe that Tesla has that technology. I have seen videos of it in action and it's rather fast. Real world use has yet to be done.

suydam

Regarding plug-ins, I’d put in a plug for the Volt, but they’re not making them any more. Stupid in my opinion. But I now have another issue and coul use some advice. Started off New Years with a flat tire on the Encore. I think the OEM tires are Contis Pro Contact. Basically a Grand Touring All Season. Any recommendations for a replacement? Tire Rack is recommending something called Vredestein, which I’ve never heard of, Yokohama, which I’ve had on other vehicles in the past and didn’t care for, and BFGoodrich Advantage. Tires are 18”. We rarely drive in snow but do drive dirt roads going hiking with our dog. Looking for a blend of quiet, good handling, and longevity. Thanks for any ideas!

[Deleted User]

fintail said:

I didn't say the Model S was more expensive. The big German boats are usually more expensive, and yet they sell like hotcakes even with that higher price point. Maybe I was unclear: S = MB, Model S = Tesla.

How many Model S are P90D? I see mostly lesser models around here (those basic wheels scream it), with a fancier one here and there. I've never seen one holding 7 people, either, but maybe my anecdotes are limited to usage patterns in my area. I also see the S-class is being ignored - good luck getting out of the showroom with even a modestly optioned S560 for under 100K pretax, and even though it isn't a new design, MB seems to be able to sell every one they can make without the need to advertise. Weird. I don't know if 3 cubic feet of storage area is going too sway a buyer, I bet range does it first

Yes, expensive luxury depreciates like day old bread, especially when it isn't the latest thing anymore . Back in the day I recall seeing year old Model S for nearly original MSRP. Not anymore.

Got it! Thanks for the explanation, and the "S" did throw me off as I thought that meant the Tesla. The MB S really does lead the segment in a lot of ways.

[Deleted User]

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla, tomorrow my son-in-law is going to be driving his Model X from MD to Boston. In the past he has resisted the drive because of range anxiety.

I believe his observed mileage is about 238 miles on a full charge. Given this limitation I would guess the commute will add 2+ hours to the 8-hour normal trip time. Well, we'll leave the light on for him.

EDIT: I just saw the additional details in posts below. 450 miles, so two stops are definitely needed in winter. The Tesla nav system is very accurate at predicting stopping points and times, so he should be fine. If he plugs in at your place then he'll only gain 4 miles an hour off the 110V. If there's any access to a dryer plug, then that'll add 30 to 35 miles an hour.

About 400ish miles? Based on my limited experience, it seems that all things being ideal he could do it with less than an hour of charging at one stop, but being winter, best to plan on 2 stops at around 35 or 40 minutes each. I'd love to hear how the trip went! Enjoy the time with him.

oldfarmer50

Driver100 said:

“ I like to have the option of using the 2nd car. Not great renting a car with two fairly new cars at home.”

But you have connections with two moguls of the rental industry. Between Sandman and I you have access to major discounts.

You’ll just have to claim kinship with one of us to get it.

[Deleted User]

driver100 said:

The 7 series cargo is about 18 cubic feet while the Tesla has over 21 cubic feet.

But that is cheating....that's counting the front trunk too.

Note: Found out later it is called a "frunk".

LOL. I love the frunk. When we're transporting hot food, like leftovers or going to a friend's place for a meal, we put it in the frunk so the smell doesn't stay in the cabin afterwards. Works great! If I still played hockey I know exactly where those stinky pads would go.

stickguy

Commented about tires on other thread, but if replacing one, get an identical tire. All 4, look at general Altimax RT43

ab348

tyguy said:

LOL. I love the frunk. When we're transporting hot food, like leftovers or going to a friend's place for a meal, we put it in the frunk so the smell doesn't stay in the cabin afterwards. Works great!

Elon is missing a marketing opportunity here by not installing an electric heating element in the frunk and selling the advantages of having a warming oven in the front.

berri

Driver - a wall on the Canadian border? SShhh ... don't give 'em any more ideas to blow our tax money

[Deleted User]

suydam said:

Regarding plug-ins, I’d put in a plug for the Volt, but they’re not making them any more. Stupid in my opinion. But I now have another issue and coul use some advice. Started off New Years with a flat tire on the Encore. I think the OEM tires are Contis Pro Contact. Basically a Grand Touring All Season. Any recommendations for a replacement? Tire Rack is recommending something called Vredestein, which I’ve never heard of, Yokohama, which I’ve had on other vehicles in the past and didn’t care for, and BFGoodrich Advantage. Tires are 18”. We rarely drive in snow but do drive dirt roads going hiking with our dog. Looking for a blend of quiet, good handling, and longevity. Thanks for any ideas!

I like the Volt, too, and was near buying one. Having the backup engine provides peace of mind, but according to GM, they're moving away from the plug-in hybrid form and moving to full electric.

While the hybrid system does make longer journeys more convenient, there is a sacrifice made. There's considerable expense and resources invested to make an ICE and transmission that will rarely be used, which the car then has to lug around as dead weight while under electric propulsion. That system takes up space, so you lose cargo and people capacity. The Volt is awesome, but it's tight and it was tough for GM to make any money with how much tech they had to pack in there. Finally, from a reliability perspective, have an electric system and an ICE system combined adds a lot of parts to worry about. GM did a heck of a job and it's a solid car, but every extra part increases the odds of failure.

Pluses and minuses for each system, and different ones will fill different needs. I think the key to electric adoption for over 50% of the vehicles on the road will be a large and reliable charging network, from very fast super chargers that can charge 500 miles an hour, to everyday 220V plug-in options in homes and parking lots (school, work, restaurants, hotels, etc...). Long-term parking places like airports will need abundant 110V plugs. It's taken a long time and a lot of resources to create the gasoline station network we have today, so I don't expect the charging network will happen overnight.

Tesla absolutely crushed it with the Model 3 in terms of range at 310 miles from a 75 kWh usable battery pack. It's rare for people to travel that far without a break, and it's capable of fast charging...over 400 miles an hour if the charger can supply that much. For me and my 10,000 miles a year need, it's perfect.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Just heard a new term salesmen use to describe obnoxious customers. SLOW LEAKER.

They use this name for a customer who nit picks minor flaws in a car and uses them as bargaining chips to get a lower price or unreasonable repairs.

Have any of the sales folks here heard that one?

I know whenever I’ve sold a used car and a potential buyer starts pointing out minor flaws, I remind them that the reason it’s priced much less than a new car is because it’s used. If they want a perfect car, go see the new car dealer.

MITSUBISHI....when did they lose their way? I remember they used to make interesting cars and trucks.....AWD turbo Gallants, turbo Eclipse, EVO, and a pretty good stab at the Japanese luxury market with the Diamonte. Not sure what happened. It’s not like they are a small company who can’t build good vehicles. They proved that they could. Plus, they are a huge conglomerate.

The few used cars I’ve sold privately were so beat that no one bothered to trash talk them. It was just a matter of me dropping the price or not.

Yep, huge company that just can’t seem to maintain a toehold in this country without melding with others. For years they supplied most of the engines (and some entire platforms) for Chrysler, much to Chrysler’s benefit as their own engines had major problems. I understand they had a partnership with Ford for something a while back and a joint engine project with a Chrysler and Hyundai. Now they are into some merger with Nissan and Renault for their future product line. Mitsu topped 200k units sold in 2002 and hasn’t come close since. I loved my 2008 Eclipse and if it had another 100hp I’d probably still own it.

[Deleted User]

snakeweasel said:

I believe that Tesla has that technology. I have seen videos of it in action and it's rather fast. Real world use has yet to be done.

Tesla did prove that out, but they're not pursuing it. Here's a video of the battery swap happening at a media event:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=HlaQuKk9bFg

What they don't show is how many people it took to make it happen. They proved a concept but there's a ton of work to do, and I think the Model 3 shows where they're going. To change the battery in the Model 3 requires removing quite a few interior pieces to access all the mounting supports and hardware. It's more like a full day job versus a couple of minutes as seen in that video.

I'd love to see a system where we buy a car without batteries, then lease batteries that can be swapped out as needed. The leasing company guarantees a certain charge capability and owns the batteries. If we don't want to lease, then we buy our own. It would definitely be neat and possibly convenient, but the infrastructure needs would be HUGE.

suydam

The problem I’ve found, which the Volt solves, is that you can’t guarantee finding a charging station when you get to your destination, even using charging apps. It might be in an employee parking garage, or a shopping mall with 2, both in use. Or broken. I would be very hesitant to buy an all EV vehicle that I also intended to take out of town. At the moment. Every time we’ve gone out of town we wind up using the gas engine for most of the trip.

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

In a way, that could be a solution - easily switchable batteries. If one could pull up to a battery station and swap out batteries in 10 minutes, it would be a huge game changer. But battery stations probably won't be cheap to build.

oldfarmer50 said:

Maybe carry a few extra batteries like gas cans.

Just think of the cost of maintaining inventory. You’d have to have enough ready to go at all times or what would be the point. How would that work do you think? Would they replace your battery with a charged one from the last guy and recharge yours for the next guy?

What happens if an unscrupulous customer drops of an old or damaged battery just to get your new one? Makes running off and not paying for gas look minor in comparison.

henryn

I believe the basic idea would be for Tesla to have an extended or long term warranty on all of their batteries, so if it were "worn out" or otherwise less than perfect, or just not capable of a full charge for whatever reason, the responsibility would lie with Tesla.

I can see Tesla doing this, but somehow I don't think Chevrolet or Toyota will want to do that.