Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

driver100

graphicguy said:

Can someone tell me what this abomination is? I’ve never seen it before. Is this a custom chop? If so, why would someone spend the money to chop the top off this?

Because they can!

driver100

PF_Flyer said:

It's a 2013 Murano CrossCabriolet



It does kind of remind me of when when had that Amatuer Redesign Studio topic where we photoshopped car to customize them

Looks like a jelly bean and someone took one small bite out of it.

driver100

fintail said:

I am a little skeptical of some of that (what's the source and their methodology?) simply based on occasionally watching 70s era game shows on Youtube, where cars are the prizes, and my knowledge of leading sellers at the time. I think this data may be more accurate .

Starting comparisons in say 1969 works well, too. An even 50 years, and wage comparisons really show who declared war and who won when the bootstrappers whine about "class warfare".

driver100 said:

Most items seem to have gone up about 4X. A car has gone up a lot more than that. I remember my 79 Cutlass cost about $10000, so there may have been a big jump from 75 to 80.
In 1975 it seems to me if you bought a top of the line model it came complete. Now you buy the top of the line model and you have to add GPS, Sun-roof, special seats, sound package. And cars have more equipment, lane monitors, rear camera, turbos, more complex engines, safety equipment, pollution controls. More people are opting for higher end cars and SUVs too. Growing number of baby boomers are majority of new car buyers....so the statistics are deceiving. But, interesting to look at;

Realistic prices if comparing the older car with what it would cost in todays dollars. It doesn't tell you the actual cost of an average car today (it is over $30000). I tend to think the first chart seemed pretty realistic.

fintail

I am just curious as to where they got the data, as my experience with old car MSRPs has them higher than that number as well.

driver100 said:

Realistic prices if comparing the older car with what it would cost in todays dollars. It doesn't tell you the actual cost of an average car today (it is over $30000). I tend to think the first chart seemed pretty realistic.

fintail

There's a similar vehicle still on the market. I saw one of these on the road last week:

driver100 said:

Looks like a jelly bean and someone took one small bite out of it.

kyfdx

Still ridiculous, but less ugly by a factor of 10.

ab348

I think the chart is a pretty good summary. Look at the difference between, say, a 1970 Maverick base priced at $1995 and something equivalent today, say, a Hyundai Elantra ( I'd use a Focus but I guess Ford stopped making them). You could not get a more basic car than a base Maverick. No power assists, teacup-sized drum brakes, unsophisticated engine and transmission, no creature comforts. Even a low-end compact these days has power windows, rear defrost, A/C, reclining seats, and safety features the engineers back then never even dreamed about. Plus of course it is far less damaging to the atmosphere. And it has technological doo-dads that would astound someone in the '70s. They really have many more things not in common with each other than those that they share. Add to all that the considerable cost of meeting of regulation and getting it certified and crash-tested and the doubling of comparative prices is more easily understood.

The college tuition inflation is in part demand-generated in that more people want their kids to attend college, and more kids want to be doctors or lawyers or MBAs or whatever, and the relative lack of competition that in turn allows college administrations to bloat and administrators/profs to be very well-compensated. I would guess the same is true for medical procedures, which are not very transparently priced and which are also more sophisticated and hence more expensive now. The house price is interesting in that the typical 1970s house would be a starter home for many now, certainly not the McMansions people these days seem to want. That leaves out hot markets entirely which completely distort things. On the flip side, eggs and milk are cheaper because of corporate control/consolidation of farming, which is a mix of good and bad. I'm actually surprised movie tickets have kept pace considering the other entertainment options available today.

ruking1

graphicguy said:

Can someone tell me what this abomination is? I’ve never seen it before. Is this a custom chop? If so, why would someone spend the money to chop the top off this?

It’s kind of like, if no one buys “PINK” cars, ...there comes a point in time when it doesn’t make any $ sense continuing “pink” cars.

Then, it begs the question, how many years (4? 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014) was this particular model made, colors, etc?

If the Toyota Corolla is any indication, boring is better ? ( or significant #/% of buyers to continue the product line) 54/55 years, 1966 to the present 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla

driver100

kyfdx said:

Still ridiculous, but less ugly by a factor of 10.

+1
....but looks more like a chocolate square than a jelly bean.

driver100

ab348
I think the chart is a pretty good summary. Look at the difference between, say, a 1970 Maverick base priced at $1995 and something equivalent today, say, a Hyundai Elantra

Good analysis ab. Houses went up in value an extraordinary amount because the demand of a growing population needed houses. Cars went up an extraordinary amount because of the additional equipment - in those days air conditioning was an expensive option....today standard like many things.

Demand on a university education is through the roof. We probably have way more chiropractors and lawyers than we really need. I seem to hear a lot of students are going through university to be an accountant - I have a hunch a lot of these jobs will be done by computers. No one wants to get their hands dirty and work at gritty jobs anymore. If you can't make it in doctor school you become a chiropractor so you can still have the title of Dr.

ruking1

driver100 said:

ab348
I think the chart is a pretty good summary. Look at the difference between, say, a 1970 Maverick base priced at $1995 and something equivalent today, say, a Hyundai Elantra

Good analysis ab. Houses went up in value an extraordinary amount because the demand of a growing population needed houses. Cars went up an extraordinary amount because of the additional equipment - in those days air conditioning was an expensive option....today standard like many things.

Demand on a university education is through the roof. We probably have way more chiropractors and lawyers than we really need. I seem to hear a lot of students are going through university to be an accountant - I have a hunch a lot of these jobs will be done by computers. No one wants to get their hands dirty and work at gritty jobs anymore. If you can't make it in doctor school you become a chiropractor so you can still have the title of Dr.

The high % & loan delinquency rates are also very telling.

Accountants even use software & computers.

One’s pretty smart to get into so called “dirty hands” “gritty jobs”. It’s even smarter to do two dirty jobs. If it is as you say, there is literally very little competition in the “correct ones”.

The health care system is also crushing (“the doctors”) them.

thebean

driver100 said:

ab348
I think the chart is a pretty good summary. Look at the difference between, say, a 1970 Maverick base priced at $1995 and something equivalent today, say, a Hyundai Elantra

Good analysis ab. Houses went up in value an extraordinary amount because the demand of a growing population needed houses. Cars went up an extraordinary amount because of the additional equipment - in those days air conditioning was an expensive option....today standard like many things.

Demand on a university education is through the roof. We probably have way more chiropractors and lawyers than we really need. I seem to hear a lot of students are going through university to be an accountant - I have a hunch a lot of these jobs will be done by computers. No one wants to get their hands dirty and work at gritty jobs anymore. If you can't make it in doctor school you become a chiropractor so you can still have the title of Dr.

I don’t know how it is in other areas, but here in North Texas, there is an abundance of Indian, Pakistani, and Chinese family doctors. Nothing wrong with that, obviously, but sometimes the language barrier is a problem with older patients on Medicare. The older folks won’t ask them to repeat themselves, and thus go away without fully understanding what they need to do. There is a real shortage of American family doctors here, especially ones that take Medicare. Is it too hard to get through med school, or are they becoming specialists?

We obviously have way, way more lawyers than we need.

driver100

Because of our "free" healthcare system there aren't enough family doctors to go around. Doctors here don't want older patients....they make more money charging the system for young patients who don't require much time.
Unfortunately, my doctor retired, and I had to find a new doctor, not easy to do. Doctors looking for patients post on a site, and about 90% are from India, Pakistan, China, Middle East. If a doctor specializes they generally make more, it is a bit easier because you don't need wide ranging knowledge, and the big one....they can control the hours they work a lot better. Some doctors even do counseling or go into something like sports medicine - neater and not so hard on them. Here, we only graduate a certain number of doctors a year, we wouldn't have enough without foreign doctors. Often they are fine, but language and connecting can sometimes be challenging.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Thought of you @oldfarmer50 ....

https://jalopnik.com/a-chrysler-pt-cruiser-monster-truck-called-pt-bruiser-i-1835526760

That’s funny. Unfortunately, the PT is being handed down to my son in a few weeks as his 2005 Sable will age out of Uber soon. By then his car will have 110k miles. 60k miles for$3000, not too bad.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Can someone tell me what this abomination is? I’ve never seen it before. Is this a custom chop? If so, why would someone spend the money to chop the top off this?

It’s like, “what were they thinking?”. If Nissan wanted a convertible why not use the Altima. The lines of the Murano are just all wrong for a drop top.

I suppose you could buy one and store it until they become collectors items. 50 years ought to do it.

oldfarmer50

ruking1 said:

fintail said:

I am a little skeptical of some of that (what's the source and their methodology?) simply based on occasionally watching 70s era game shows on Youtube, where cars are the prizes, and my knowledge of leading sellers at the time. I think this data may be more accurate .

Starting comparisons in say 1969 works well, too. An even 50 years, and wage comparisons really show who declared war and who won when the bootstrappers whine about "class warfare".

driver100 said:

Most items seem to have gone up about 4X. A car has gone up a lot more than that. I remember my 79 Cutlass cost about $10000, so there may have been a big jump from 75 to 80.
In 1975 it seems to me if you bought a top of the line model it came complete. Now you buy the top of the line model and you have to add GPS, Sun-roof, special seats, sound package. And cars have more equipment, lane monitors, rear camera, turbos, more complex engines, safety equipment, pollution controls. More people are opting for higher end cars and SUVs too. Growing number of baby boomers are majority of new car buyers....so the statistics are deceiving. But, interesting to look at;

Parts of life can be way better to great when folks are on the right sides of incomes/assets power curves?

Mark 14:7, 2000+ years ago talks about the “poor” makes one wax nostalgic about the price of new chariots models?

But look what OR officials do to a poor bear. https://www.yahoo.com/news/young-bear-fed-humans-had-011101352.html

...”On Thursday, when wildlife biologists Kurt License and Doug Kitchen set out to trap and relocate the bear, they received another call that the bear was on the highway near the intersection of Scoggins Valley Road and Herr Road, where individuals had left it food.”...

There Hass to be a Saturday night live skit here “license & kitchen”?

Idiots. Dooming the poor bear for their selfish photos. Probably consider themselves animal lovers.

We have some numbskulls around us who feed deer. The deer not only ravage local farms but breed way beyond the environment’s ability to sustain the population. Then these animal lovers jet off to their winter vacations and the deer all suffer slow starvation.

driver100

Then there is the lady in Toronto who feels sorry for rats....and she likes to feed them.

sda

driver100 said:

Then there is the lady in Toronto who feels sorry for rats....and she likes to feed them.

eek! Just no!

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Thought of you @oldfarmer50 ....

https://jalopnik.com/a-chrysler-pt-cruiser-monster-truck-called-pt-bruiser-i-1835526760

That’s funny. Unfortunately, the PT is being handed down to my son in a few weeks as his 2005 Sable will age out of Uber soon. By then his car will have 110k miles. 60k miles for$3000, not too bad.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1123298_audi-tt-safari-turns-the-sport-coupe-into-an-off-road-monster

Try that one instead @oldfarmer50

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Thought of you @oldfarmer50 ....

https://jalopnik.com/a-chrysler-pt-cruiser-monster-truck-called-pt-bruiser-i-1835526760

That’s funny. Unfortunately, the PT is being handed down to my son in a few weeks as his 2005 Sable will age out of Uber soon. By then his car will have 110k miles. 60k miles for$3000, not too bad.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1123298_audi-tt-safari-turns-the-sport-coupe-into-an-off-road-monster

Try that one instead @oldfarmer50

Looks like something out of a Mel Gibson apocalypse movie.

graphicguy

kyfdx said:

Still ridiculous, but less ugly by a factor of 10.

Rhetorical question, but how did these vehicles hit the street and I missed them? After all, I’m a member of the esteemed Edmunds Forums........

sda

That’s funny. Unfortunately, the PT is being handed down to my son in a few weeks as his 2005 Sable will age out of Uber soon. By then his car will have 110k miles. 60k miles for$3000, not too bad.


When your son takes the PT will the OF stable include the Sable?

oldfarmer50

sda said:

That’s funny. Unfortunately, the PT is being handed down to my son in a few weeks as his 2005 Sable will age out of Uber soon. By then his car will have 110k miles. 60k miles for$3000, not too bad.

When your son takes the PT will the OF stable include the Sable?


No, The Sable is in rough shape. My “knows nothing about how cars work” son was out Ubering last fall and blew his water pump. He kept driving around and heated the engine up so much that he burnt a valve causing a slight misfire in one cylinder. Hardly noticeable but enough to trigger a check engine light. To fix it would cost more than the car is worth. Car won’t pass inspection when the current sticker expires in October so we’ll sell it as a fixer/parts car for $500 instead of the $1000 it might be worth otherwise. Not a big deal because we were going to get rid of it when it becomes too old for ride share in December.

But to answer your question, I was considering using it as a winter beater as it is otherwise a pretty nice car.

I was actually impressed that the 3.0L Duratec took that abuse and still runs 20k miles later.

driver100

NORTH BAY, Ont. - Humane society officials say a woman is facing charges after hundreds of rats were removed from a one-bedroom apartment in North Bay, Ont.

North Bay and District Humane Society spokesman Daryl Vaillancourt says "most" of the rats were running free in the apartment when inspectors went there on Dec. 16, 2016, to investigate a report of a large number of domestic rats being kept in an apartment.

Vaillancourt says the woman voluntarily surrendered nearly 600 rats, which were removed from the apartment over several days.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

That’s funny. Unfortunately, the PT is being handed down to my son in a few weeks as his 2005 Sable will age out of Uber soon. By then his car will have 110k miles. 60k miles for$3000, not too bad.

When your son takes the PT will the OF stable include the Sable?

No, The Sable is in rough shape. My “knows nothing about how cars work” son was out Ubering last fall and blew his water pump. He kept driving around and heated the engine up so much that he burnt a valve causing a slight misfire in one cylinder.

O-F, what actually happened when your son tried the Uber gig? Could someone actually make money doing that? It seemed to me, when we took Ubers in Madrid, the cars were in immaculate shape - nicer than taxis. Don't they ask that cars be of a certain vintage and have to be kept at a certain standard?

On another topic, just reading the most stressful job in the U.S. is farming. Twice as many deaths as the next closest occupations. Uncertainty's take a mental toll...weather, prices, factors that affect you - many can't be controlled - such as the price of crops or seed.
FARMING IS DANGEROUS WORK

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

That’s funny. Unfortunately, the PT is being handed down to my son in a few weeks as his 2005 Sable will age out of Uber soon. By then his car will have 110k miles. 60k miles for$3000, not too bad.

When your son takes the PT will the OF stable include the Sable?

No, The Sable is in rough shape. My “knows nothing about how cars work” son was out Ubering last fall and blew his water pump. He kept driving around and heated the engine up so much that he burnt a valve causing a slight misfire in one cylinder.

O-F, what actually happened when your son tried the Uber gig? Could someone actually make money doing that? It seemed to me, when we took Ubers in Madrid, the cars were in immaculate shape - nicer than taxis. Don't they ask that cars be of a certain vintage and have to be kept at a certain standard?

On another topic, just reading the most stressful job in the U.S. is farming. Twice as many deaths as the next closest occupations. Uncertainty's take a mental toll...weather, prices, factors that affect you - many can't be controlled - such as the price of crops or seed.
FARMING IS DANGEROUS WORK



That’s the big question right now...can anyone make a living at Uber. Some drivers are protesting that they make less than minimum wage. My analysis is that it’s tough to make a living using a new or expensive car to Uber. The depreciation alone is a killer. The 54 cent federal allowance wouldn’t cover all the costs of a new vehicle. Same for a lease.

My conclusion is that you have to find a low mileage older car with at least a few years of eligibility left and hope for few mechanical repairs. My son was in that sweet spot with the Sable, no real depreciation to speak of. The only real problem is that every few years you have to find a new hooptie.

The cars no matter what age have to be clean and I assume not rust buckets. The Sable belonged to a 92 yo woman from Florida and still looks good. Riders can and do complain if the car is dirty. My son has gotten the occasional nut who made up stories of his car being dirty or of him driving recklessly. Not true since my son drives more carefully than the previously mentioned old lady. I think these complainers are just trying to get Uber to waive the fare.

As to farming being dangerous, all I can say is YEP!

Last summer we had one guy fall into his brush hogging machine (picture a giant lawn mower) and get ground to pieces. Lingered in agony for a month.


Another guy got so despondent over his finances that he went out, shot all his cows and then himself. They say he shot the cows first so they didn’t suffer from lack of milking after he was no longer around.

I’ve been lucky, other than the occasional hernia or tumble down the hill with the lawn tractor on me I haven’t suffered any real injuries.

sda

I have the greatest respect for the farmer. We had a farm in central Va. The farmer can do everything right and weather or market conditions can throw a wrench and no profit made, often a loss. So many things beyond your control. A lot of work for potentially little reward. We need farmers!

driver100

Thanks for the update and info oldfarmer.
Judging by Madrid, I would say an Uber driver would make at most about the equivalent of $30 an hour....less expenses which doesn't leave a lot left over.

On farming...no one works harder. I had a retired farmer who helped me when I started my book business - I would never find another person that would work as hard as he did.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

I have the greatest respect for the farmer. We had a farm in central Va. The farmer can do everything right and weather or market conditions can throw a wrench and no profit made, often a loss. So many things beyond your control. A lot of work for potentially little reward. We need farmers!

You can say the same of any entrepreneur. Any capitalist can see his life savings disappear with nothing to show for it. That’s why I don't begrudge successful ones.

ruking1

sda said:

I have the greatest respect for the farmer. We had a farm in central Va. The farmer can do everything right and weather or market conditions can throw a wrench and no profit made, often a loss. So many things beyond your control. A lot of work for potentially little reward. We need farmers!

The real irony about farming/farmers is that the United States government, et al., continues to work VERY hard (for over 149 years or so) to get rid of (a great percentage) of farmers. In terms of culling results, they’ve been wildly successful. I’ve read there are app 3.2 M USA farmers remaining (2013). So app .0098 % of our (328 M) population feeds the USA & a significant % of the world. The average USA farm size is app. 400 to 500 acres. (43,560 sq ft per acre)

As noted in other posts, just about EVERY factor “conspires” against them.

imidazol97

Nobody posted a side view of the Nissan with the "top" up.


Between this and the Juke, no one should criticize the Aztek again. Ever.

ruking1

Beauty/handsomeness or lack there of, are really in the eyes of the beholder.

Michaell

And yet, everybody seems to love the Wranger - a 4x4 convertible.

dino001

driver100 said:

On farming...no one works harder. I had a retired farmer who helped me when I started my book business - I would never find another person that would work as hard as he did.

Farmers are definitely hard working people. Never happy, when it comes to their business. It's too hot, too cold, too much rain, too little rain, too much sun, too little sun. Generally four major natural disasters: spring, summer, fall, winter. I don't blame them. There is no other business where they have such little control over. If it's not this year's weather, it's last year's weather. Or prices of crop. Or prices of raw ingredients (feed, fertilizers). Tough business requiring people being tough in constant vigilance, if not paranoia.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

Nobody posted a side view of the Nissan with the "top" up.


Between this and the Juke, no one should criticize the Aztek again. Ever.

You have to give them some credit though..............completely original, they didn't copy any other car.

driver100

That Nissan is ugly, but I am not sure which one is uglier:

kyfdx

Easy. The Nissan, by far.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

Nobody posted a side view of the Nissan with the "top" up.


Between this and the Juke, no one should criticize the Aztek again. Ever.

You have to give them some credit though..............completely original, they didn't copy any other car.

Well, there is that.

I looked but didn't find what I thought the cabriolet looked like that I saw at the shopping center when they were new. It seemed that there are a ridge on the top of the soft top like a small air dam. Something like the small air dam on the trunk lid of a C300.

I've only noticed a few of these, usually driven by ladies and in shopping areas like the one I saw first. I recall that I took a picture from the rear because it was so odd.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

That Nissan is ugly, but I am not sure which one is uglier:

I am.

driver100

Then, there is this one:

or;

Seems Nissan is the leader for ugly convertibles.

oldfarmer50

Well, it had to happen. While I was parked on a city street a guy trying to pull into the space behind me scraped the bumper on the Kia. Nothing major but you can see the scratches. They won’t buff out because the person had a license plate bracket with spikes and it dug into the plastic.

He was very apologetic and gave me all his insurance info. I didn’t call police for such a small thing but I wonder if I should have. His insurance probably won’t pay without an accident report and frankly, I don’t want to bother.

1749 miles on the odo.

stickguy

Just send him a bill and say your willing to avoid an insurance claim. Will save him money.

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

Well, it had to happen. While I was parked on a city street a guy trying to pull into the space behind me scraped the bumper on the Kia. Nothing major but you can see the scratches. They won’t buff out because the person had a license plate bracket with spikes and it dug into the plastic.

He was very apologetic and gave me all his insurance info. I didn’t call police for such a small thing but I wonder if I should have. His insurance probably won’t pay without an accident report and frankly, I don’t want to bother.

1749 miles on the odo.

That bites. A piece of metal came loose from a passing truck and hit my SIL’s new RDX and did about $1k in damage. She had it less than a month. Thankfully the driver of the truck had insurance and the body shop did a great job with the repair, as if it never happened.

driver100

New cars are like magnets for getting damaged.
of course, one of oldfarmers old hoopties couldn't get hit had to be the new one.
And, the SIL probably wouldn't have been hit....if she was in her old car.

graphicguy

@oldfarmer50 ...damn....that sux!

Seen at Costco tonight.....

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

Well, it had to happen. While I was parked on a city street a guy trying to pull into the space behind me scraped the bumper on the Kia. Nothing major but you can see the scratches. They won’t buff out because the person had a license plate bracket with spikes and it dug into the plastic.

He was very apologetic and gave me all his insurance info. I didn’t call police for such a small thing but I wonder if I should have. His insurance probably won’t pay without an accident report and frankly, I don’t want to bother.

1749 miles on the odo.

I'd give them the chance to avoid a claim, but the Insurance company won't care there wasn't a Police Report. They will pay the claim unless your at-fault party gets selective memory or amnesia, and/or changes the story to you being at fault.

andres3

There's a '15 S4 in red in Richmond, CA that's been rear-ended TWICE. Apparently, the Car fax or the car report says both were minor collisions with rear-end damage to the rear bumper.

What do you think? My chance to save money on a good low mile (33K) S4?

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

@oldfarmer50 ...damn....that sux!

Seen at Costco tonight.....

Bet that adds a hundred hp.

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

There's a '15 S4 in red in Richmond, CA that's been rear-ended TWICE. Apparently, the Car fax or the car report says both were minor collisions with rear-end damage to the rear bumper.

What do you think? My chance to save money on a good low mile (33K) S4?

All depends on how it was repaired. A coworker at my last job bought a 2005 Crossfire. It had a “minor” rear end repair. After about a year things started peeling and coming loose. Cost quite a bit to re-repair the first job.

I’d get a good collision shop to do an independent review. YouTube is loaded with after repair inspections that show major incompetence or outright fraud.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

New cars are like magnets for getting damaged.
of course, one of oldfarmers old hoopties couldn't get hit had to be the new one.
And, the SIL probably wouldn't have been hit....if she was in her old car.

If it's not damage to the body, it's a nail in a tire. So the nice new tire has a plug and seal for the rest of its life.

Twice I've had a nail in almost new Michelins.