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  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,454
    driver100 said:

    ronsteve said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?
    I just need the extra horses for getting onto highways, or to maneuver into a safer position, but, not to race someone, been there and done that.
    I got over that when I used to race a friend and we drove our parents Hillmans....must have done 0 to 60 in about 22 seconds.
    We also drove around in 90 degree temperatures with the windows rolled up so people would think we had air conditioning.
    in reality you need torque for getting onto highways and maneuvering into a safer position. But sometimes you need to use the braking power to get to a safer position. That being said do you really need all that excess power? I would say no as cars with way less power can do it.
    Yes, you can find a way to get onto a highway with less power, but often it means slowing down and waiting which can lead to other problems and though you can do it, it won't be as safe.

    I had a situation a few days ago that I will try to explain. I am on the entrtry ramp.....the guy ahead of me is a slow driver, the guy behind me is on my bumper. I leave more space than normal in front because the guy in front is the type who is going to have trouble getting onto the highway. As the guy in front goes to get on there is a car in the right lane on the highway going by, he slows down to let it go by and slowly gets on. It is my turn, I am running out of entry ramp, there is another car in the right lane that isn't slowing down to let me in....if I slow down I got the guy on my bumper, and I am running out of entry ramp....I would have to slow down to a crawl or stop....but the 340 horses allowed me to propel myself to enter the highway before the car already in the right lane gets there....she didn't have to slow down and I don't think she would have, and the guy behind me can find a space behind the car that I got in front of.

    Traffic kept moving which is important.....traffic should flow, no one had to do anything to avoid an accident, the extra power made it possible. If I was driving our old Passat I would have done it differently, but there would be more chance of something going wrong and it would have made it harder for the guy behind me to get on and other cars behind him....in fact that is how some rear enders can happen.

    Horsepower can be a safety feature.....I have had underpowered cars and more powerful cars and I prefer the ones with more power.....for safety reasons mainly, and the intoxicating feeling of making those horses run.
    I have been in situations like that and was able to do it in a 200 HP Sonata, a 175 HP Sebring. Don't need massive amounts of Torque.
    Just an auto tranny that can think on its feet... or if you're driving stick, you need to be in the right gear. Torque is what will cover those sins.
    If I put the 2er and its 8HP in Sport mode the transmission shifts exactly the way I would 99% of the time- including when it’s on the track. It tends to spoil you.

    On the bike I feel the same way, in sport mode it shifts very close to where I would. My only issue is that in sport mode I would usually be one gear higher at crusing speeds. As an example I have to hit 60 MPH for it to shift into 6th in sport mode.
    When you say "bike" are we talking your motorbike or your bike....bike?
    Motorcycle.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,610
    edited April 18


    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?

    Exactly.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,037
    edited April 18
    I quit commenting on grammar and vocabulary usage years ago on here, even though I grit my teeth as I read much of this (let's say stuff) that I read. If you lot want to continue this sort of thing, I can bring quite a lot to the party. Complimenting someone on having a decent vocabulary smacks of, well, . . .
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,454
    Talk about timing, we have a topic of dead batteries and I had a battery go bad on the Sonata on Saturday. We were able to jump it and get home and when we turned it off we tried to restart it with no success. So today (Sunday) I jumped it and took it to my local friendly auto parts store to get a new one, they will also install it for free. Well the guy there looked at the battery and said that they couldn't replace the battery for me due to something with the positive post which surprised me since they were the ones that installed the battery I had in there when the OEM battery went south.

    Well anyhow he tested the battery and it came back saying to charge the battery and retest it. So I commented that I could just drive it around for a while to fully charge it and the guy told me it had to be charged by a battery charger. I replied that the alternator would charge the battery and he replied that it wouldn't as an alternator draws from the battery. I replied "OK" and left.

    So I went to the Firestone down the road who sold me the battery and installed it for about $10 more than the auto parts store would have charged me in about 25 minutes.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyMember Posts: 6,064
    I just call AAA and have them install a battery. Usually from the comfort of my own home. They test the old battery. Tests the alternator and starter. 3 years free replacement, pro-rated to 6, I believe. About the same cost as a comparable battery from AutoZone.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,678

    driver100 said:

    I’d want to know exactly what needs to be “reprogrammed” after a dead battery incident. It sounds like a scam to me. I’ve accidentally run down the batteries in the M235i and the Clubman and in the case of the 2er the only thing that was affected was the trip odometer. The Clubman needed the clock reset and the power windows re-initialized(which takes all of 20seconds per side).

    This video shows what can happen if you have a dead battery in an MB. He fortunately fixed it for $45, but if he couldn't do it then it would have cost him $2000.
    btw...it warns you in the manual not to leave your MB without charging for more than 6 weeks, it is costly to reset all the programs.
    So in spite of all of the jokes about having to register a BMW battery, what it boils down to is that any shop or individual with a $170 Foxwell NT510 scanner or the Carly app can complete a BMW or Mini battery registration in under 10 minutes- but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!
    NT510 is exactly what I have.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2007 BMW 530xi Touring 6MT (on loan), 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • ventureventure Central PAMember Posts: 2,074
    edited April 19
    All indications are that the helicopter, Ingenuity, successfully completed its first flight on Mars.


    2020 Ascent Limited, 2020 Legacy Touring XT

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    I’d want to know exactly what needs to be “reprogrammed” after a dead battery incident. It sounds like a scam to me. I’ve accidentally run down the batteries in the M235i and the Clubman and in the case of the 2er the only thing that was affected was the trip odometer. The Clubman needed the clock reset and the power windows re-initialized(which takes all of 20seconds per side).

    This video shows what can happen if you have a dead battery in an MB. He fortunately fixed it for $45, but if he couldn't do it then it would have cost him $2000.
    btw...it warns you in the manual not to leave your MB without charging for more than 6 weeks, it is costly to reset all the programs.
    So in spite of all of the jokes about having to register a BMW battery, what it boils down to is that any shop or individual with a $170 Foxwell NT510 scanner or the Carly app can complete a BMW or Mini battery registration in under 10 minutes- but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!
    You may want to read this article:

    BMW BATTERY REGISTERING & PROGRAMMING EXPLAINED

    In the good old days when your BMW battery died one could go to the local auto shop, pick up a new one, replace it at home and get back on the road. Unfortunately, with the late model BMW's battery replacement is not as simple yesteryears. The new batteries need to be replaced by a dealer or qualified Euro specialist with the right tools to either register or program the car to your new battery. Failure to do so can result in overcharging of your new battery or even electrical malfunction.

    Why do new model BMW’s need battery programming and old ones do not?
    The newer BMW models listed above are significantly more advanced electronically than models from the 1990s and older. All of the advancement is ultimately pushed forward in the name of improving gas mileage. The newer models are equipped with IBS or Intelligent Battery Sensors. The IBS system is attached to the negative battery terminal and contains micro processors which measure and monitor voltage, current, charge and discharge as well as temperature of the battery.
    https://bimmertips.com/bmw-battery-registering-and-programming-explained/
    Do you even read what you cut and paste?
    As I said, BMWs and Minis with IBS should have a new battery registered- which I'm able to do with either my Foxwell Scanner or my Carly app.
    Explain how that contradicts the four year old article you posted(which, by the way, appears to be designed to coerce easily frightened and uniformed owners into taking their car to a "professional" for anything short of filling it up with fuel).
    What you actually said was, "but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!" which implies that only MB cars should be reprogrammed by the dealer. The guys in the video reprogrammed the battery in an MB for $45.

    Whether you have an MB or a BMW you could do the reprogramming yourself....if you take it to the dealer it could be costly...........that is why I would rather replace a battery before it actually dies completely.

    I am sure you know what you are doing if you replace a dead battery, but unless you know what you are doing you could really mess up your car. In any case my point is I prefer that the battery not die completely, I'd rather replace it too early than have to have it reset.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?
    I just need the extra horses for getting onto highways, or to maneuver into a safer position, but, not to race someone, been there and done that.
    I got over that when I used to race a friend and we drove our parents Hillmans....must have done 0 to 60 in about 22 seconds.
    We also drove around in 90 degree temperatures with the windows rolled up so people would think we had air conditioning.
    in reality you need torque for getting onto highways and maneuvering into a safer position. But sometimes you need to use the braking power to get to a safer position. That being said do you really need all that excess power? I would say no as cars with way less power can do it.
    Yes, you can find a way to get onto a highway with less power, but often it means slowing down and waiting which can lead to other problems and though you can do it, it won't be as safe.

    I had a situation a few days ago that I will try to explain. I am on the entrtry ramp.....the guy ahead of me is a slow driver, the guy behind me is on my bumper. I leave more space than normal in front because the guy in front is the type who is going to have trouble getting onto the highway. As the guy in front goes to get on there is a car in the right lane on the highway going by, he slows down to let it go by and slowly gets on. It is my turn, I am running out of entry ramp, there is another car in the right lane that isn't slowing down to let me in....if I slow down I got the guy on my bumper, and I am running out of entry ramp....I would have to slow down to a crawl or stop....but the 340 horses allowed me to propel myself to enter the highway before the car already in the right lane gets there....she didn't have to slow down and I don't think she would have, and the guy behind me can find a space behind the car that I got in front of.

    Traffic kept moving which is important.....traffic should flow, no one had to do anything to avoid an accident, the extra power made it possible. If I was driving our old Passat I would have done it differently, but there would be more chance of something going wrong and it would have made it harder for the guy behind me to get on and other cars behind him....in fact that is how some rear enders can happen.

    Horsepower can be a safety feature.....I have had underpowered cars and more powerful cars and I prefer the ones with more power.....for safety reasons mainly, and the intoxicating feeling of making those horses run.
    I have been in situations like that and was able to do it in a 200 HP Sonata, a 175 HP Sebring. Don't need massive amounts of Torque.
    I guaranty I wouldn't have been able to do it in the 2013 Passat, or any of my previous cars. None of them took off like this one. And that was just one example.....I use the extra horses defensively about twice a week, sometimes to get on the highway before the big transport truck is beside me, or to stay ahead of a big pack of cars, and it gives the cars behind me more time to plan their entrance.
    Horses for Safety....that's my motto!
    Well to be honest in your example it shouldn't hard to maintain the same speed as the car in front of you and merge in behind them. If they are going that slow then faster moving traffic in the right lane will either merge into one of the lanes to the left or slow down, either way it would allow you to merge in behind them. The only reason to use all that power would be to zip around them as you merge in.

    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?
    You are making up a scenario that suits your argument and assumes a lot of things....which probably would have resulted in an accident. There isn't enough time for the guy in front of me as well as me to get in front of the small blue Honda that is in the right lane....and that car was not slowing down. Then you are assuming the lady in the blue Honda in the right lane is going to move into the next lane....which she did not do, or slow down - which she did not do. Defensive driving means you don't assume anything....you plan for the worst case scenario.

    And, if I slowed down and let her pass the guy behind me on my bumper will move out once the Honda passes me, and block me in...that seems to be the newest maneuver these days.

    If you don't need horsepower why not save money and buy a Mitsu Mirage with 78 hp? It should suit you well.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785


    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?

    Exactly.
    What is the exact right amount of horsepower one should have?
    Could it depend on what roads you are using and where you drive?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785

    Talk about timing, we have a topic of dead batteries and I had a battery go bad on the Sonata on Saturday. We were able to jump it and get home and when we turned it off we tried to restart it with no success. So today (Sunday) I jumped it and took it to my local friendly auto parts store to get a new one, they will also install it for free. Well the guy there looked at the battery and said that they couldn't replace the battery for me due to something with the positive post which surprised me since they were the ones that installed the battery I had in there when the OEM battery went south.

    Well anyhow he tested the battery and it came back saying to charge the battery and retest it. So I commented that I could just drive it around for a while to fully charge it and the guy told me it had to be charged by a battery charger. I replied that the alternator would charge the battery and he replied that it wouldn't as an alternator draws from the battery. I replied "OK" and left.

    So I went to the Firestone down the road who sold me the battery and installed it for about $10 more than the auto parts store would have charged me in about 25 minutes.

    Your 2011 Sonata probably got a new battery around 2016.....now it is 5 years later. Might be time for another battery!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bwiabwia Boston Member Posts: 2,634
    The 2022 All-New Toyota bZ4X SUV, the ultimate Electric Vehicle experience? Not sure, but it looks pretty snazzy. The production version of the bZ4X is expected to hit Toyota showrooms in mid-2022
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785
    @bwia
    You seem to have a thing for electric cars these days.....what is going on?
    Those Toyotas look like Darth Vaders car.
    It seems to me they are making lots of advances with electrics.......if you buy too early your car might be out of date within a year.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,610
    edited April 19
    driver100 said:


    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?

    Exactly.
    What is the exact right amount of horsepower one should have?
    Could it depend on what roads you are using and where you drive?
    I think anyone should be able to buy any amount of street legal hp that they want and can afford. That said, if someone “needs” a car that accelerates 0-60 in under 9 seconds I’d maintain that the issue is driving ability as opposed to vehicle power.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 41,718
    Driver, IMO, for street driving (normal use) once a car has more power than the chassis can handle (it overwhelms the car) then you have too much. Even all the electric nannies can only do so much.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,610
    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    I’d want to know exactly what needs to be “reprogrammed” after a dead battery incident. It sounds like a scam to me. I’ve accidentally run down the batteries in the M235i and the Clubman and in the case of the 2er the only thing that was affected was the trip odometer. The Clubman needed the clock reset and the power windows re-initialized(which takes all of 20seconds per side).

    This video shows what can happen if you have a dead battery in an MB. He fortunately fixed it for $45, but if he couldn't do it then it would have cost him $2000.
    btw...it warns you in the manual not to leave your MB without charging for more than 6 weeks, it is costly to reset all the programs.
    So in spite of all of the jokes about having to register a BMW battery, what it boils down to is that any shop or individual with a $170 Foxwell NT510 scanner or the Carly app can complete a BMW or Mini battery registration in under 10 minutes- but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!
    You may want to read this article:

    BMW BATTERY REGISTERING & PROGRAMMING EXPLAINED

    In the good old days when your BMW battery died one could go to the local auto shop, pick up a new one, replace it at home and get back on the road. Unfortunately, with the late model BMW's battery replacement is not as simple yesteryears. The new batteries need to be replaced by a dealer or qualified Euro specialist with the right tools to either register or program the car to your new battery. Failure to do so can result in overcharging of your new battery or even electrical malfunction.

    Why do new model BMW’s need battery programming and old ones do not?
    The newer BMW models listed above are significantly more advanced electronically than models from the 1990s and older. All of the advancement is ultimately pushed forward in the name of improving gas mileage. The newer models are equipped with IBS or Intelligent Battery Sensors. The IBS system is attached to the negative battery terminal and contains micro processors which measure and monitor voltage, current, charge and discharge as well as temperature of the battery.
    https://bimmertips.com/bmw-battery-registering-and-programming-explained/
    Do you even read what you cut and paste?
    As I said, BMWs and Minis with IBS should have a new battery registered- which I'm able to do with either my Foxwell Scanner or my Carly app.
    Explain how that contradicts the four year old article you posted(which, by the way, appears to be designed to coerce easily frightened and uniformed owners into taking their car to a "professional" for anything short of filling it up with fuel).
    What you actually said was, "but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!" which implies that only MB cars should be reprogrammed by the dealer. The guys in the video reprogrammed the battery in an MB for $45.

    Whether you have an MB or a BMW you could do the reprogramming yourself....if you take it to the dealer it could be costly...........that is why I would rather replace a battery before it actually dies completely.

    I am sure you know what you are doing if you replace a dead battery, but unless you know what you are doing you could really mess up your car. In any case my point is I prefer that the battery not die completely, I'd rather replace it too early than have to have it reset.

    I didn’t imply anything. Your video alleges that a M-B dealer will charge $2k to reprogram a Mercedes with a dead battery. Is that true or not?
    Again, you don’t understand what is being discussed. BMWs do not need to be “reprogrammed.” Registering a battery-even at a dealer- is a half hour labor charge at most. And you can throw a battery into an IBS equipped BMW and drive away without registering it. The downside is battery life will likely be reduced- but even if the old battery had been completely dead, the vehicle will not require any “reprogramming.”

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,454
    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?
    I just need the extra horses for getting onto highways, or to maneuver into a safer position, but, not to race someone, been there and done that.
    I got over that when I used to race a friend and we drove our parents Hillmans....must have done 0 to 60 in about 22 seconds.
    We also drove around in 90 degree temperatures with the windows rolled up so people would think we had air conditioning.
    in reality you need torque for getting onto highways and maneuvering into a safer position. But sometimes you need to use the braking power to get to a safer position. That being said do you really need all that excess power? I would say no as cars with way less power can do it.
    Yes, you can find a way to get onto a highway with less power, but often it means slowing down and waiting which can lead to other problems and though you can do it, it won't be as safe.

    I had a situation a few days ago that I will try to explain. I am on the entrtry ramp.....the guy ahead of me is a slow driver, the guy behind me is on my bumper. I leave more space than normal in front because the guy in front is the type who is going to have trouble getting onto the highway. As the guy in front goes to get on there is a car in the right lane on the highway going by, he slows down to let it go by and slowly gets on. It is my turn, I am running out of entry ramp, there is another car in the right lane that isn't slowing down to let me in....if I slow down I got the guy on my bumper, and I am running out of entry ramp....I would have to slow down to a crawl or stop....but the 340 horses allowed me to propel myself to enter the highway before the car already in the right lane gets there....she didn't have to slow down and I don't think she would have, and the guy behind me can find a space behind the car that I got in front of.

    Traffic kept moving which is important.....traffic should flow, no one had to do anything to avoid an accident, the extra power made it possible. If I was driving our old Passat I would have done it differently, but there would be more chance of something going wrong and it would have made it harder for the guy behind me to get on and other cars behind him....in fact that is how some rear enders can happen.

    Horsepower can be a safety feature.....I have had underpowered cars and more powerful cars and I prefer the ones with more power.....for safety reasons mainly, and the intoxicating feeling of making those horses run.
    I have been in situations like that and was able to do it in a 200 HP Sonata, a 175 HP Sebring. Don't need massive amounts of Torque.
    I guaranty I wouldn't have been able to do it in the 2013 Passat, or any of my previous cars. None of them took off like this one. And that was just one example.....I use the extra horses defensively about twice a week, sometimes to get on the highway before the big transport truck is beside me, or to stay ahead of a big pack of cars, and it gives the cars behind me more time to plan their entrance.
    Horses for Safety....that's my motto!
    Well to be honest in your example it shouldn't hard to maintain the same speed as the car in front of you and merge in behind them. If they are going that slow then faster moving traffic in the right lane will either merge into one of the lanes to the left or slow down, either way it would allow you to merge in behind them. The only reason to use all that power would be to zip around them as you merge in.

    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?
    You are making up a scenario that suits your argument and assumes a lot of things....which probably would have resulted in an accident. There isn't enough time for the guy in front of me as well as me to get in front of the small blue Honda that is in the right lane....and that car was not slowing down. Then you are assuming the lady in the blue Honda in the right lane is going to move into the next lane....which she did not do, or slow down - which she did not do. Defensive driving means you don't assume anything....you plan for the worst case scenario.

    And, if I slowed down and let her pass the guy behind me on my bumper will move out once the Honda passes me, and block me in...that seems to be the newest maneuver these days.

    If you don't need horsepower why not save money and buy a Mitsu Mirage with 78 hp? It should suit you well.
    OK so the lady in the blue Honda did not change lanes nor did she slow down, so she rear ended the car you were following as she merged into the lane.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,454
    driver100 said:

    Talk about timing, we have a topic of dead batteries and I had a battery go bad on the Sonata on Saturday. We were able to jump it and get home and when we turned it off we tried to restart it with no success. So today (Sunday) I jumped it and took it to my local friendly auto parts store to get a new one, they will also install it for free. Well the guy there looked at the battery and said that they couldn't replace the battery for me due to something with the positive post which surprised me since they were the ones that installed the battery I had in there when the OEM battery went south.

    Well anyhow he tested the battery and it came back saying to charge the battery and retest it. So I commented that I could just drive it around for a while to fully charge it and the guy told me it had to be charged by a battery charger. I replied that the alternator would charge the battery and he replied that it wouldn't as an alternator draws from the battery. I replied "OK" and left.

    So I went to the Firestone down the road who sold me the battery and installed it for about $10 more than the auto parts store would have charged me in about 25 minutes.

    Your 2011 Sonata probably got a new battery around 2016.....now it is 5 years later. Might be time for another battery!
    Nope not time for a new battery, Saturday was time for a new battery. Current battery should be good for five years.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 41,718
    Yup. Lots of assuming going on. My experience, most people, when someone has to pull out in front of them, actually slow down or move to avoid hitting them.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,667
    stickguy said:

    Yup. Lots of assuming going on. My experience, most people, when someone has to pull out in front of them, actually slow down or move to avoid hitting them.

    If they didn't, no one would ever make it to work, without being in an accident.

    Edmunds Lease Calculator
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  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785
    stickguy said:

    Driver, IMO, for street driving (normal use) once a car has more power than the chassis can handle (it overwhelms the car) then you have too much. Even all the electric nannies can only do so much.

    I agree stick, and the amount of power depends on the drivers ability and what he is using it for. I have seen 200 hp Civics being driven recklessly. But then, isn't a Hellcat designed to handle 700 hp.? Unfortunately, a lot of owners think they can handle 700 hp....and they can't, that's why there are spinout videos.

    In most cases safety is probably limited more by the drivers ability than the hp if someone wants excess hp. It's in how you use it...I'd like the 700 hp just for the sound of the engine.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,454
    bwia said:

    The 2022 All-New Toyota bZ4X SUV, the ultimate Electric Vehicle experience? Not sure, but it looks pretty snazzy. The production version of the bZ4X is expected to hit Toyota showrooms in mid-2022

    I really think that car manufacturers need to rethink their naming conventions.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 41,718
    A Hellcat is really too much power for most drivers especially in adverse conditions. Have to be a good driver and extremely careful with it. Most people, are neither.

    You can have a tiger as a pet. Still doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

    Also with card, you reach a point where the car can’t even utilize more power. Just end up with wheel spin, or something breaking.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,454

    driver100 said:


    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?

    Exactly.
    What is the exact right amount of horsepower one should have?
    Could it depend on what roads you are using and where you drive?
    I think anyone should be able to buy any amount of street legal hp that they want and can afford. That said, if someone “needs” a car that accelerates 0-60 in under 9 seconds I’d maintain that the issue is driving ability as opposed to vehicle power.

    I think that a car should be powerful enough to keep up with typical traffic coming off a light without breaking say 3500 or 4000 RPM's.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785

    driver100 said:


    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?

    Exactly.
    What is the exact right amount of horsepower one should have?
    Could it depend on what roads you are using and where you drive?
    I think anyone should be able to buy any amount of street legal hp that they want and can afford. That said, if someone “needs” a car that accelerates 0-60 in under 9 seconds I’d maintain that the issue is driving ability as opposed to vehicle power.

    So a 2017 Honda Civic 0 to 60 in 7.5 seconds would be more power than anyone needs?
    Being able to enter a highway safely or move away from a problematic situation isn't because of a lack of driving ability, it's using power wisely, using it defensively to avoid a mishap.

    Guess we should be driving Mitsu Mirages and Sparks;
    Car Name 0-60 MPH
    2019 Mitsubishi Mirage 12.8 sec
    2019 Chevrolet Spark 10.7 sec
    2019 Kia Forte 8.2 sec
    2019 Ford Edge 7.2 sec

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,610
    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:


    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?

    Exactly.
    What is the exact right amount of horsepower one should have?
    Could it depend on what roads you are using and where you drive?
    I think anyone should be able to buy any amount of street legal hp that they want and can afford. That said, if someone “needs” a car that accelerates 0-60 in under 9 seconds I’d maintain that the issue is driving ability as opposed to vehicle power.

    So a 2017 Honda Civic 0 to 60 in 7.5 seconds would be more power than anyone needs?
    Being able to enter a highway safely or move away from a problematic situation isn't because of a lack of driving ability, it's using power wisely, using it defensively to avoid a mishap.

    Guess we should be driving Mitsu Mirages and Sparks;
    Car Name 0-60 MPH
    2019 Mitsubishi Mirage 12.8 sec
    2019 Chevrolet Spark 10.7 sec
    2019 Kia Forte 8.2 sec
    2019 Ford Edge 7.2 sec
    I’ll simply stand by my prior comment; if someone “needs” a car that accelerates 0-60 in under 9 seconds the issue is a lack of driving ability as opposed to vehicle power.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    I’d want to know exactly what needs to be “reprogrammed” after a dead battery incident. It sounds like a scam to me. I’ve accidentally run down the batteries in the M235i and the Clubman and in the case of the 2er the only thing that was affected was the trip odometer. The Clubman needed the clock reset and the power windows re-initialized(which takes all of 20seconds per side).

    This video shows what can happen if you have a dead battery in an MB. He fortunately fixed it for $45, but if he couldn't do it then it would have cost him $2000.
    btw...it warns you in the manual not to leave your MB without charging for more than 6 weeks, it is costly to reset all the programs.
    So in spite of all of the jokes about having to register a BMW battery, what it boils down to is that any shop or individual with a $170 Foxwell NT510 scanner or the Carly app can complete a BMW or Mini battery registration in under 10 minutes- but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!
    You may want to read this article:

    BMW BATTERY REGISTERING & PROGRAMMING EXPLAINED

    In the good old days when your BMW battery died one could go to the local auto shop, pick up a new one, replace it at home and get back on the road. Unfortunately, with the late model BMW's battery replacement is not as simple yesteryears. The new batteries need to be replaced by a dealer or qualified Euro specialist with the right tools to either register or program the car to your new battery. Failure to do so can result in overcharging of your new battery or even electrical malfunction.

    Why do new model BMW’s need battery programming and old ones do not?
    The newer BMW models listed above are significantly more advanced electronically than models from the 1990s and older. All of the advancement is ultimately pushed forward in the name of improving gas mileage. The newer models are equipped with IBS or Intelligent Battery Sensors. The IBS system is attached to the negative battery terminal and contains micro processors which measure and monitor voltage, current, charge and discharge as well as temperature of the battery.
    https://bimmertips.com/bmw-battery-registering-and-programming-explained/
    Do you even read what you cut and paste?
    As I said, BMWs and Minis with IBS should have a new battery registered- which I'm able to do with either my Foxwell Scanner or my Carly app.
    Explain how that contradicts the four year old article you posted(which, by the way, appears to be designed to coerce easily frightened and uniformed owners into taking their car to a "professional" for anything short of filling it up with fuel).
    What you actually said was, "but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!" which implies that only MB cars should be reprogrammed by the dealer. The guys in the video reprogrammed the battery in an MB for $45.

    Whether you have an MB or a BMW you could do the reprogramming yourself....if you take it to the dealer it could be costly...........that is why I would rather replace a battery before it actually dies completely.

    I am sure you know what you are doing if you replace a dead battery, but unless you know what you are doing you could really mess up your car. In any case my point is I prefer that the battery not die completely, I'd rather replace it too early than have to have it reset.

    I didn’t imply anything. Your video alleges that a M-B dealer will charge $2k to reprogram a Mercedes with a dead battery. Is that true or not?
    Again, you don’t understand what is being discussed. BMWs do not need to be “reprogrammed.” Registering a battery-even at a dealer- is a half hour labor charge at most. And you can throw a battery into an IBS equipped BMW and drive away without registering it. The downside is battery life will likely be reduced- but even if the old battery had been completely dead, the vehicle will not require any “reprogramming.”
    That is true, and the manual says it is costly if they have to reprogram your battery - so don't let it go dead.

    The video said it could cost $2000. I said that it would cost something to reprogram a BMW as well. I have no idea how much that would be.....but if the battery dies you are going to pay to reprogram, at least $200 to $450 from what I can tell....just for the registration, not sure about any labor etc.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?

    tjc78 said:

    310HP and 350 torque.... no slouch at all. More power than many “muscle cars” in the past.

    I’d still want the V8... but 300 HP is 300 HP

    No doubt 300+ hp. Is considerable (equal to the 4.6L GT) but the bar keeps getting raised. When challenged by a 700hp Hellcat at the stop light drag race 300hp is puny relatively speaking.
    But if you don't care if the guy next to you gets ahead off the light and you really wouldn't need a 5.1 second 0 - 60 time then why spend the 10 grand or more for what you won't use?
    I just need the extra horses for getting onto highways, or to maneuver into a safer position, but, not to race someone, been there and done that.
    I got over that when I used to race a friend and we drove our parents Hillmans....must have done 0 to 60 in about 22 seconds.
    We also drove around in 90 degree temperatures with the windows rolled up so people would think we had air conditioning.
    in reality you need torque for getting onto highways and maneuvering into a safer position. But sometimes you need to use the braking power to get to a safer position. That being said do you really need all that excess power? I would say no as cars with way less power can do it.
    Yes, you can find a way to get onto a highway with less power, but often it means slowing down and waiting which can lead to other problems and though you can do it, it won't be as safe.

    I had a situation a few days ago that I will try to explain. I am on the entrtry ramp.....the guy ahead of me is a slow driver, the guy behind me is on my bumper. I leave more space than normal in front because the guy in front is the type who is going to have trouble getting onto the highway. As the guy in front goes to get on there is a car in the right lane on the highway going by, he slows down to let it go by and slowly gets on. It is my turn, I am running out of entry ramp, there is another car in the right lane that isn't slowing down to let me in....if I slow down I got the guy on my bumper, and I am running out of entry ramp....I would have to slow down to a crawl or stop....but the 340 horses allowed me to propel myself to enter the highway before the car already in the right lane gets there....she didn't have to slow down and I don't think she would have, and the guy behind me can find a space behind the car that I got in front of.

    Traffic kept moving which is important.....traffic should flow, no one had to do anything to avoid an accident, the extra power made it possible. If I was driving our old Passat I would have done it differently, but there would be more chance of something going wrong and it would have made it harder for the guy behind me to get on and other cars behind him....in fact that is how some rear enders can happen.

    Horsepower can be a safety feature.....I have had underpowered cars and more powerful cars and I prefer the ones with more power.....for safety reasons mainly, and the intoxicating feeling of making those horses run.
    I have been in situations like that and was able to do it in a 200 HP Sonata, a 175 HP Sebring. Don't need massive amounts of Torque.
    I guaranty I wouldn't have been able to do it in the 2013 Passat, or any of my previous cars. None of them took off like this one. And that was just one example.....I use the extra horses defensively about twice a week, sometimes to get on the highway before the big transport truck is beside me, or to stay ahead of a big pack of cars, and it gives the cars behind me more time to plan their entrance.
    Horses for Safety....that's my motto!
    Well to be honest in your example it shouldn't hard to maintain the same speed as the car in front of you and merge in behind them. If they are going that slow then faster moving traffic in the right lane will either merge into one of the lanes to the left or slow down, either way it would allow you to merge in behind them. The only reason to use all that power would be to zip around them as you merge in.

    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?
    You are making up a scenario that suits your argument and assumes a lot of things....which probably would have resulted in an accident. There isn't enough time for the guy in front of me as well as me to get in front of the small blue Honda that is in the right lane....and that car was not slowing down. Then you are assuming the lady in the blue Honda in the right lane is going to move into the next lane....which she did not do, or slow down - which she did not do. Defensive driving means you don't assume anything....you plan for the worst case scenario.

    And, if I slowed down and let her pass the guy behind me on my bumper will move out once the Honda passes me, and block me in...that seems to be the newest maneuver these days.

    If you don't need horsepower why not save money and buy a Mitsu Mirage with 78 hp? It should suit you well.
    OK so the lady in the blue Honda did not change lanes nor did she slow down, so she rear ended the car you were following as she merged into the lane.
    Blue Honda was a few car lengths behind me but coming up fast......i used the rest of the lane to gain some distance and move in front....and I had a chance to go into the middle lane which is where I wanted to be.....the blue Honda came up beside me as she past me....I could see the young lady with her hands grasping the steering wheel (at least she had 2 hands on the wheel) her eyes laser focused straight ahead......driving like a fighter pilot, and she took off at full speed at the next ramp which was about 200 - 300 yards from where I entered.

    I have heard of backseat drivers but online drivers!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785
    stickguy said:

    Yup. Lots of assuming going on. My experience, most people, when someone has to pull out in front of them, actually slow down or move to avoid hitting them.

    She wasn't slowing down....I could have moved in front of her and she would have been forced to slow down, but less chance of an accident if I just accelerate and stay ahead of her. The first way there is a chance she will hit me or sudden brake which could lead to an accident around her....by staying ahead of the problem it avoids conflicts.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 53,213
    edited April 19
    Is that an entire fake window in the C-pillar? No huge gaping maw of a grille, which is nice, but this is another one I expect to be cut off-by in traffic, especially highway lane changes.
    bwia said:

    The 2022 All-New Toyota bZ4X SUV, the ultimate
    Electric Vehicle experience? Not sure, but it looks pretty snazzy. The production version of the bZ4X is expected to hit Toyota showrooms in mid-2022

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,610
    edited April 19
    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    I’d want to know exactly what needs to be “reprogrammed” after a dead battery incident. It sounds like a scam to me. I’ve accidentally run down the batteries in the M235i and the Clubman and in the case of the 2er the only thing that was affected was the trip odometer. The Clubman needed the clock reset and the power windows re-initialized(which takes all of 20seconds per side).

    This video shows what can happen if you have a dead battery in an MB. He fortunately fixed it for $45, but if he couldn't do it then it would have cost him $2000.
    btw...it warns you in the manual not to leave your MB without charging for more than 6 weeks, it is costly to reset all the programs.
    So in spite of all of the jokes about having to register a BMW battery, what it boils down to is that any shop or individual with a $170 Foxwell NT510 scanner or the Carly app can complete a BMW or Mini battery registration in under 10 minutes- but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!
    You may want to read this article:

    BMW BATTERY REGISTERING & PROGRAMMING EXPLAINED

    In the good old days when your BMW battery died one could go to the local auto shop, pick up a new one, replace it at home and get back on the road. Unfortunately, with the late model BMW's battery replacement is not as simple yesteryears. The new batteries need to be replaced by a dealer or qualified Euro specialist with the right tools to either register or program the car to your new battery. Failure to do so can result in overcharging of your new battery or even electrical malfunction.

    Why do new model BMW’s need battery programming and old ones do not?
    The newer BMW models listed above are significantly more advanced electronically than models from the 1990s and older. All of the advancement is ultimately pushed forward in the name of improving gas mileage. The newer models are equipped with IBS or Intelligent Battery Sensors. The IBS system is attached to the negative battery terminal and contains micro processors which measure and monitor voltage, current, charge and discharge as well as temperature of the battery.
    https://bimmertips.com/bmw-battery-registering-and-programming-explained/
    Do you even read what you cut and paste?
    As I said, BMWs and Minis with IBS should have a new battery registered- which I'm able to do with either my Foxwell Scanner or my Carly app.
    Explain how that contradicts the four year old article you posted(which, by the way, appears to be designed to coerce easily frightened and uniformed owners into taking their car to a "professional" for anything short of filling it up with fuel).
    What you actually said was, "but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!" which implies that only MB cars should be reprogrammed by the dealer. The guys in the video reprogrammed the battery in an MB for $45.

    Whether you have an MB or a BMW you could do the reprogramming yourself....if you take it to the dealer it could be costly...........that is why I would rather replace a battery before it actually dies completely.

    I am sure you know what you are doing if you replace a dead battery, but unless you know what you are doing you could really mess up your car. In any case my point is I prefer that the battery not die completely, I'd rather replace it too early than have to have it reset.

    I didn’t imply anything. Your video alleges that a M-B dealer will charge $2k to reprogram a Mercedes with a dead battery. Is that true or not?
    Again, you don’t understand what is being discussed. BMWs do not need to be “reprogrammed.” Registering a battery-even at a dealer- is a half hour labor charge at most. And you can throw a battery into an IBS equipped BMW and drive away without registering it. The downside is battery life will likely be reduced- but even if the old battery had been completely dead, the vehicle will not require any “reprogramming.”
    That is true, and the manual says it is costly if they have to reprogram your battery - so don't let it go dead.

    The video said it could cost $2000. I said that it would cost something to reprogram a BMW as well. I have no idea how much that would be.....but if the battery dies you are going to pay to reprogram, at least $200 to $450 from what I can tell....just for the registration, not sure about any labor etc.
    To repeat; a battery registration is 100% labor. You plug the scanner into the OBD2 port and follow the proper procedure for whatever scanner you are utilizing. The only people who pay $200 - $450 for registration alone are the dimwits who hand over their credit card, drop their pants, and grab their ankles.
    In any case, it’s not going to cost $2,000; I dealt with more than a few new BMWs at the dealer that had heavily discharged or dead batteries(due to sitting long periods without being driven or charged). In EVERY case at most a battery replacement and registration was required- no other programming was needed.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    I’d want to know exactly what needs to be “reprogrammed” after a dead battery incident. It sounds like a scam to me. I’ve accidentally run down the batteries in the M235i and the Clubman and in the case of the 2er the only thing that was affected was the trip odometer. The Clubman needed the clock reset and the power windows re-initialized(which takes all of 20seconds per side).

    This video shows what can happen if you have a dead battery in an MB. He fortunately fixed it for $45, but if he couldn't do it then it would have cost him $2000.
    btw...it warns you in the manual not to leave your MB without charging for more than 6 weeks, it is costly to reset all the programs.
    So in spite of all of the jokes about having to register a BMW battery, what it boils down to is that any shop or individual with a $170 Foxwell NT510 scanner or the Carly app can complete a BMW or Mini battery registration in under 10 minutes- but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!
    You may want to read this article:

    BMW BATTERY REGISTERING & PROGRAMMING EXPLAINED

    In the good old days when your BMW battery died one could go to the local auto shop, pick up a new one, replace it at home and get back on the road. Unfortunately, with the late model BMW's battery replacement is not as simple yesteryears. The new batteries need to be replaced by a dealer or qualified Euro specialist with the right tools to either register or program the car to your new battery. Failure to do so can result in overcharging of your new battery or even electrical malfunction.

    Why do new model BMW’s need battery programming and old ones do not?
    The newer BMW models listed above are significantly more advanced electronically than models from the 1990s and older. All of the advancement is ultimately pushed forward in the name of improving gas mileage. The newer models are equipped with IBS or Intelligent Battery Sensors. The IBS system is attached to the negative battery terminal and contains micro processors which measure and monitor voltage, current, charge and discharge as well as temperature of the battery.
    https://bimmertips.com/bmw-battery-registering-and-programming-explained/
    Do you even read what you cut and paste?
    As I said, BMWs and Minis with IBS should have a new battery registered- which I'm able to do with either my Foxwell Scanner or my Carly app.
    Explain how that contradicts the four year old article you posted(which, by the way, appears to be designed to coerce easily frightened and uniformed owners into taking their car to a "professional" for anything short of filling it up with fuel).
    What you actually said was, "but Mercedes has built a $2,000 profit center into their cars because if a battery goes south various control modules lose the capability to communicate with each other.
    That makes much more sense- if you are an M-B dealer!" which implies that only MB cars should be reprogrammed by the dealer. The guys in the video reprogrammed the battery in an MB for $45.

    Whether you have an MB or a BMW you could do the reprogramming yourself....if you take it to the dealer it could be costly...........that is why I would rather replace a battery before it actually dies completely.

    I am sure you know what you are doing if you replace a dead battery, but unless you know what you are doing you could really mess up your car. In any case my point is I prefer that the battery not die completely, I'd rather replace it too early than have to have it reset.

    I didn’t imply anything. Your video alleges that a M-B dealer will charge $2k to reprogram a Mercedes with a dead battery. Is that true or not?
    Again, you don’t understand what is being discussed. BMWs do not need to be “reprogrammed.” Registering a battery-even at a dealer- is a half hour labor charge at most. And you can throw a battery into an IBS equipped BMW and drive away without registering it. The downside is battery life will likely be reduced- but even if the old battery had been completely dead, the vehicle will not require any “reprogramming.”
    That is true, and the manual says it is costly if they have to reprogram your battery - so don't let it go dead.

    The video said it could cost $2000. I said that it would cost something to reprogram a BMW as well. I have no idea how much that would be.....but if the battery dies you are going to pay to reprogram, at least $200 to $450 from what I can tell....just for the registration, not sure about any labor etc.
    To repeat; a battery registration is 100% labor. You plug the scanner into the OBD2 port and follow the proper procedure for whatever scanner you are utilizing. The only people who pay $200 - $450 for registration alone are the dimwits who hand over their credit card, drop their pants, and grab their ankles.
    In any case, it’s not going to cost $2,000; I dealt with more than a few new BMWs at the dealer that had heavily discharged or dead batteries(due to sitting long periods without being driven or charged). In EVERY case at most a battery replacement and registration was required- no other programming was needed.
    Fair enough....but that is because you are doing it yourself....what percentage of people would DIY?
    It sounds like "registering" is something that should really be done, kind of like doing your own oil change and not recording the mileage.
    I can't find out the actual cost of reprograming an MB if the battery is dead for a period of time. The video said $2000, the manual says it could be an expensive repair, my friends ex - Maserati dealer said it could be $4000 to reset from a dead battery......I am only going by what I can find out!
    I have read about people who have had dead batteries in their MB and the car doesn't run right after, certain parts have to be reprogramed...throttle, transmission etc........but nothing definite.
    All I know is I am trying to do what I can so the battery doesn't actually die, it is a pain because it never goes at a good time, and in case it affects any settings I don't want that hassle or possible expenses.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • ronsteveronsteve LooavulMember Posts: 932

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:


    As for using the extra power twice a week, that does seem excessive, I cannot think of that many examples in a year where I would even come close to using all my power. Maybe there are other issues at play here?

    Exactly.
    What is the exact right amount of horsepower one should have?
    Could it depend on what roads you are using and where you drive?
    I think anyone should be able to buy any amount of street legal hp that they want and can afford. That said, if someone “needs” a car that accelerates 0-60 in under 9 seconds I’d maintain that the issue is driving ability as opposed to vehicle power.

    So a 2017 Honda Civic 0 to 60 in 7.5 seconds would be more power than anyone needs?
    Being able to enter a highway safely or move away from a problematic situation isn't because of a lack of driving ability, it's using power wisely, using it defensively to avoid a mishap.

    Guess we should be driving Mitsu Mirages and Sparks;
    Car Name 0-60 MPH
    2019 Mitsubishi Mirage 12.8 sec
    2019 Chevrolet Spark 10.7 sec
    2019 Kia Forte 8.2 sec
    2019 Ford Edge 7.2 sec
    I’ll simply stand by my prior comment; if someone “needs” a car that accelerates 0-60 in under 9 seconds the issue is a lack of driving ability as opposed to vehicle power.

    The number that matters is 30-70, i.e. getting on the Interstate from a cloverleaf ramp. That's where the power is critical.

    Otherwise I can't think of much that people actually NEED "all" the power to do. Maybe towing. I know I'd at least prefer to have enough power and/or a smart enough transmission that there is no gear hunting while climbing hills. But that's a comfort thing, not a critical need.
    2015 Acura RDX AWD / 2013 VW Jetta 2.5SE
  • bwiabwia Boston Member Posts: 2,634
    driver100 said:

    @bwia
    You seem to have a thing for electric cars these days.....what is going on?
    Those Toyotas look like Darth Vaders car.
    It seems to me they are making lots of advances with electrics.......if you buy too early your car might be out of date within a year.

    @driver100 Yes of course. Electric vehicles are becoming ubiquitous and with government mandates zero emissions cars will be the only vehicles on the road which is a good thing for the environment. No?

    But as we all know, there is no free lunch. And as such, when EV batteries reach the end of their useful lives they cannot be dumped in landfills which creates a new opportunity for recycling the old Li-ion batteries.

    There is one such company (Li-cycle) in the neck of the woods near you in Toronto. And there are many other startups around with promising technologies that recycle almost 75% of the raw materials in these batteries. It may be too late to invest in the Tesla's of this world but a prime opportunity exists in the recycling biz for us small investors. And that's where my focus lie, in doing good while doing well.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 15,000
    Yesterday when I was browsing closed car dealer lots I encountered 3 new Toyota Corolla hatchbacks parked side by side. That is highly unusual here as dealers seem to mostly carry the sedan. For some reason I have a thing for compact hatchbacks and I like the look of the Corolla version.

    One was a base model but there were two parked side by side that were interesting. One in "Wind Chill White" (a metallic extra-cost color I believe) was nicely turned out with the $6100 "XSE" package, which gives you pretty much all the goodies you can get on one of these, including decent-looking wheels. The other was fairly rare as I discovered later, a "Special Edition" package at $6600 of which apparently only 300 were sent to Canada. Supersonic Red with black wheels and lots of shiny black plastic add-on pieces to make it rival a Civic for boy-racerness. It had the basic black interior most of these I've seen have. The white one intrigued me because it was exactly the way I'd order one, with a saddle brown leather and cloth interior that was fairly handsome and which I have not seen locally before. According to the reviews I've read it isn't exactly fast, doing 8 seconds 0-60 with the automatic, but certainly adequate. These have a 2L 16v DOHC engine.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Same as jmonroeMember Posts: 2,563

    I quit commenting on grammar and vocabulary usage years ago on here, even though I grit my teeth as I read much of this (let's say stuff) that I read. If you lot want to continue this sort of thing, I can bring quite a lot to the party. Complimenting someone on having a decent vocabulary smacks of, well, . . .

    Well, go ahead and tell me how good I ain’t. ;)

    jmonroe
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 17,454
    jmonroe1 said:

    I quit commenting on grammar and vocabulary usage years ago on here, even though I grit my teeth as I read much of this (let's say stuff) that I read. If you lot want to continue this sort of thing, I can bring quite a lot to the party. Complimenting someone on having a decent vocabulary smacks of, well, . . .

    Well, go ahead and tell me how good I ain’t. ;)

    jmonroe
    Very bad grammar, I'll fixed it for you. It should be "Well, goin ahead and tells me how good I tain’t"

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785
    ab348 said:

    Yesterday when I was browsing closed car dealer lots I encountered 3 new Toyota Corolla hatchbacks parked side by side. That is highly unusual here as dealers seem to mostly carry the sedan. For some reason I have a thing for compact hatchbacks and I like the look of the Corolla version.

    One was a base model but there were two parked side by side that were interesting. One in "Wind Chill White" (a metallic extra-cost color I believe) was nicely turned out with the $6100 "XSE" package, which gives you pretty much all the goodies you can get on one of these, including decent-looking wheels. The other was fairly rare as I discovered later, a "Special Edition" package at $6600 of which apparently only 300 were sent to Canada. Supersonic Red with black wheels and lots of shiny black plastic add-on pieces to make it rival a Civic for boy-racerness. It had the basic black interior most of these I've seen have. The white one intrigued me because it was exactly the way I'd order one, with a saddle brown leather and cloth interior that was fairly handsome and which I have not seen locally before. According to the reviews I've read it isn't exactly fast, doing 8 seconds 0-60 with the automatic, but certainly adequate. These have a 2L 16v DOHC engine.

    So ab, are you getting all excited about one of these:
    Actually they seem to be nice cars, well built, smooth riding, cost about $26k U.S., CVT and 169 hp :(

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 28,785
    bwia said:

    driver100 said:

    @bwia
    You seem to have a thing for electric cars these days.....what is going on?
    Those Toyotas look like Darth Vaders car.
    It seems to me they are making lots of advances with electrics.......if you buy too early your car might be out of date within a year.

    @driver100 Yes of course. Electric vehicles are becoming ubiquitous and with government mandates zero emissions cars will be the only vehicles on the road which is a good thing for the environment. No?

    .
    Doesn't producing electricity to run all these cars create pollution too! And if we all plug in our cars at the same time do we have enough power to supply the cars and homes and businesses?
    I think my biggest drawbacks are distance, and do I really want to spend $50000 on something that could be dated next year......just saying........

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 15,000
    driver100 said:


    So ab, are you getting all excited about one of these:
    Actually they seem to be nice cars, well built, smooth riding, cost about $26k U.S., CVT and 169 hp :(

    Not really, but my pattern has always been to mentally note new vehicles that seem to appeal to me years in advance. I'll be in the ATS for a few years yet.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,103
    Reached out to a broker about the RAV4 Hybrid. Deal doesn't look so hot once you exclude MSDs and roll everything in. About $387/mo all in. That's way too steep for a 'yota. Then he says "hey, I have loaner GLBs you might like." Ok, but I warn you my wife is coming out of what is essentially a $370/mo all-in on an X2 and doesn't want to go past that. "Oh, this is right at that number." Let me hear it. So he sends me the calculator showing $370/mo .... with $1569 at signing plus $4500 in MSDs. hahaha.... no.

    ‘21 Camaro LT1, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,609
    Well, I got a call from the Genesis concierge informing me that after working on the problem of my Connective Services for most of the day and consulting with engineers in California, they think that the inability for the car to connect via Verizon towers to Genesis Connective services and roadside assistance is caused by a glitch in the radio system. According to him, everything filters through the radio for all audio, Bluetooth, telephone, GPS, etc. Since they know the car is sending diagnostic and telematics to my cellphone they know it wasn't the modem or the module. The engineers recommended putting in a replacement radio. They are overnighting a new radio system to the dealership.

    Prior to replacing the radio, the technician working on the car will connect the new radio to the car without installing it into the dashboard. He wants to test it to make sure it's the radio causing the issue. If that solves the problem, they will take out the existing radio and replace it with the new one. It will require new registration and data entry, but that shouldn't take more than an hour.

    I asked him if the radio is not the cause of the problem, what next. He stated they go back to the drawing board and continue trouble shooting. At least the loaner they gave me is a 2021 G90, so at least it's comfortable. I just hope it was something simple like the radio.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 41,718
    that Corolla is a lot of car for the money for someone that is not a "car person" and is on a modest budget, that just needs a reliable, cheap to run car with lot's of features. Even has a bit of uniqueness and style these days (like it or not, it does have style!) and it isn't just another CUV.

    If my daughter was buying right now instead of selling, would be a great option for her to look at.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 12,011
    edited April 19
    qbrozen said:

    Reached out to a broker about the RAV4 Hybrid. Deal doesn't look so hot once you exclude MSDs and roll everything in. About $387/mo all in. That's way too steep for a 'yota. Then he says "hey, I have loaner GLBs you might like." Ok, but I warn you my wife is coming out of what is essentially a $370/mo all-in on an X2 and doesn't want to go past that. "Oh, this is right at that number." Let me hear it. So he sends me the calculator showing $370/mo .... with $1569 at signing plus $4500 in MSDs. hahaha.... no.

    Has she driven the RAV? My mom has a current gen XLE. I just can’t warm up to it at all.

    You may recall I had a hell of a time getting a good lease on one for her. Also don’t forget Toyota Finance doesn’t include gap so that adds about $700 or so (depending how greedy the F&I guy wants to be) to the total lease.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Coral Springs, FLMember Posts: 5,728
    I like those Corolla hatchbacks and it's been on my radar since the first day I saw it. And when all is said & done, might just end up back in a Toyota to be honest. Just waiting to see the new VW Taos coming out by the 3rd quarter of 2021. I think it's going to be all I need in a vehicle right now and am hoping I'll be able to just slide in and out like I did in the short term Hyundai Tucson I owned back in 2014. The ingress/egress was just about perfect for me but the vehicle was just too big for my needs. Am hoping the new Taos will be a little bigger than my current VW Golf, but not by much, and it'll have the same ingress/egress that the Tucson had. If so, it just might be, "the one", and folks in here know I've been waiting for awhile to find that perfect vehicle that gives me the same pleasure that the Golf does.
    My wish is that the Golf behaves itself going forward with no more drama and the Taos is a perfect fit. Even though I'm not a fan of first year models, if I find the right color combo for a decent price, I'll definitely pull the trigger and not look back. But just like with the Golf, I'll know within the first 5 minutes if this will be my next vehicle, I'll just know. If I get that sh-t eating grin on my face, we'll have a winner!

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2)

  • ronsteveronsteve LooavulMember Posts: 932
    tjc78 said:



    Has she driven the RAV? My mom has a current gen XLE. I just can’t warm up to it at all.

    For decades I have found Toyotas to be nearly void of any road feel. I owned a Corolla from 1999-2002, because it was something that was available and affordable at the time, and I traded out of it as soon as I felt like I could afford something better. Have put rental miles on an '03 Camry, '09 Corolla, and several different vintages of RAV4, and only the RAVs were even tolerable. Definitely targeting folks who see a car as an appliance.
    2015 Acura RDX AWD / 2013 VW Jetta 2.5SE
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 12,011
    I used to be a big Toyota fan, but their latest offerings just don’t do much of anything for me. I want to like the Avalon but can get over the awful front end.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 41,718

    I like those Corolla hatchbacks and it's been on my radar since the first day I saw it. And when all is said & done, might just end up back in a Toyota to be honest. Just waiting to see the new VW Taos coming out by the 3rd quarter of 2021. I think it's going to be all I need in a vehicle right now and am hoping I'll be able to just slide in and out like I did in the short term Hyundai Tucson I owned back in 2014. The ingress/egress was just about perfect for me but the vehicle was just too big for my needs. Am hoping the new Taos will be a little bigger than my current VW Golf, but not by much, and it'll have the same ingress/egress that the Tucson had. If so, it just might be, "the one", and folks in here know I've been waiting for awhile to find that perfect vehicle that gives me the same pleasure that the Golf does.
    My wish is that the Golf behaves itself going forward with no more drama and the Taos is a perfect fit. Even though I'm not a fan of first year models, if I find the right color combo for a decent price, I'll definitely pull the trigger and not look back. But just like with the Golf, I'll know within the first 5 minutes if this will be my next vehicle, I'll just know. If I get that sh-t eating grin on my face, we'll have a winner!

    did you watch the video I posted for you? mentioned in there that it is 175.8" long. And it is not really tall compared to some other cars in the class. Should be just right for sliding in without falling into it or climbing into it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 53,213
    I joke that steering wheel in my mom's Camry isn't hooked up to anything - no road feel in that modern marshmallow. Pure reliability though, closing in on 12 years with the car, and it has needed nothing but maintenance, not a single unexpected issue.
    ronsteve said:


    For decades I have found Toyotas to be nearly void of any road feel. I owned a Corolla from 1999-2002, because it was something that was available and affordable at the time, and I traded out of it as soon as I felt like I could afford something better. Have put rental miles on an '03 Camry, '09 Corolla, and several different vintages of RAV4, and only the RAVs were even tolerable. Definitely targeting folks who see a car as an appliance.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,024
    I know we have Tacoma fans here.....

    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
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