Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

andres3

roadburner said:

Finally- I have a sales story!
That didn't end well...
The following email that I sent to the "Business Development Manager" pretty much says it all:

Dear Ms. xxxxx
My wife and I are no longer interested in buying that car. Please let me give you a bit of background information that will explain why.

On August 17 my wife and I drove to Kings Ford in Cincinnati to look at another Ford CPO Mustang GT Premium. That car was Guard in color and had every option your Mustang has plus it had the Enhanced Security Package. It had 890 miles on it and the asking price was $37,000. Before we even began to negotiate our salesperson offered us $4,500 for our car and cut $500 off the Mustangs price- $32,000 plus tax, title and license. I foolishly decided to go home to think about it and the car sold soon after- on the same day I decided to buy it.

I next located your car on Autotrader and-before driving up-my wife and I decided that if we could make the same deal($32,000 plus TTL) we would buy it- even though your car had less equipment, double the miles, and was painted a color we did not like nearly as well as Guard.

When we arrived and asked for you we were told you were in "Internet Sales" and that we would need to work through a salesperson- even though I had set up, as you put it, a "VIP appointment" with you. When we sat down with your salesperson we were informed that the CPO certification was not included in the "internet price" and further that our trade was only worth $3,000 because of "damage to the rear." I have gone back and checked the Mustang's web page(http://www.andymohrford.com/inventory/2015-ford-mustang-gt-rwd-2d-coupe-1fa6p8cf6f5301815) and I can find no mention that CPO certification requires an additional fee. Secondly, my car has no damage to the rear and has never sustained any damage to the rear.

In addition, my wife and I did not appreciate having to ask in order to get our keys back and to further find that our car had been moved around the corner out of our sight. To top it all off, as we were leaving the manager(Mr. xxxxx I believe), stated, "Give me a number I can take to the General Manager"- even though I had told our salesperson five minutes earlier that we'd accept $34,000 out the door and use Ford Credit financing.

In short, we spent five hours of our time traveling to and from your dealership only to be treated in a dishonest and rude fashion- and as a result we do not wish to deal with Andy Mohr Ford either now or in the future.


By the way, this letter was sent in response to an email from Ms. xxxxx making a counter offer within $500 of our number and offering to have the Mustang driven down to us and our Mazda picked up.
The whole sorry crew can go pound sand...

Sleazy greedy sales tactics and people still work in the car business? Wow!! LOL.

I wonder if dealerships would make more money just auctioning off every car on E-Bay with no reserve considering they wouldn't have to pay any salaries or commissions other than for Administrative paperwork (although E-Bay fees seem ridiculous; maybe there's someone newer and better, or a manufacturer could set up their own direct sales system. I know I personally have to test drive a car before I'd buy it, so that causes a kink in the system. Tesla has its own problems implementing a similar system.

corvette

The "VIP appointments" are annoying and seem to be gimmicks focused on lead generation. When you treat those leads like dirt and chase them away, you need even more leads to make up for them. Lather, rinse, repeat...

I would guess you could get a much better price for your MazdaSpeed 3 by selling it private party. That is the kind of car where an adult-driven, well-maintained, and tastefully modified example should fetch a premium.

explorerx4

@roadburner, Maybe that dealership has the same owner as the one who gave henryn the runaround.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Edmunds just swapped the exhaust in their Mustang and posted a comparison sound clip.
http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2015/long-term-road-test/2015-ford-mustang-gt-new-exhaust-before-and-after.html

Ooh ooh I'll have to give it a listen and get back to you. Thanks. BTW, my initial 27mpg has dropped to a 24 average as I start to "enjoy" it.

stever

The local Kia dealer was actually responsive to my chat and email today, although there was some pleading for permission to call me. I said I preferred emails so I can keep track of what's said. No offense was taken.

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner, Maybe that dealership has the same owner as the one who gave henryn the runaround.

What amazes me is the audacity many auto dealership possess to think that the average car buyer is plain "stupid".  Or that the old "slight of hand" technique works as well today as it did yesterday.  It sort of reminds me of the sidewalk jipsters usually found on the street corners of New York City in the form of "Three Card Monty" or the three cups turned upside down and you had to find the cup hiding the little pea.  You never could win at this street games because they were cheats using the slight of hand to distract the poor sap who bet $5.00 he could find the "Queen" or the "Pea".  Sounds like trying to buy a car from a dealership who keeps changing the rules, or the car, or the price, or the stipulations, etc.

"Here's your out the door price - told you we could do it!"  Then, when you go to finance, the hocus-pocus starts:

"Well, there's the dealer service fee!"
"Well that didn't include tax, title and license plate!"
"Don't forget transportation!"  
"If you are not paying cash, there's a special finance charge that was not included!"

It's called a game for a good reason - you can cheat at a game but not if it's business.

I reiterate my claim - I despise car dealerships and auto manufacturers.  Remember, I used to be in the business and saw and heard many things that turned my stomach!!!

stever

I read a lot of Dealer Reviews here. It's amazing how many people get run over at the dealer yet cave in because they have been at the showroom all day and they're tired and they just want to do a deal. Then they write a bad review after they review the contract the next day.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

The "VIP appointments" are annoying and seem to be gimmicks focused on lead generation. When you treat those leads like dirt and chase them away, you need even more leads to make up for them. Lather, rinse, repeat...

I would guess you could get a much better price for your MazdaSpeed 3 by selling it private party. That is the kind of car where an adult-driven, well-maintained, and tastefully modified example should fetch a premium.

Given the knowledge base of this group I'm surprised at the ire roadburner experienced. Wasn't he prepared for every slimey trick? I seem to remember many a tale in bygone days where buyers were advised to bring a sandwich and employ Jedi mind tricks to overcome the dishonest salesman. My Ford guy was pretty decent but he still tried to low ball my trade on his first offer.

I agree that with RR's Mazda private party would be best. I bet the flakes that show up make him see the dealer in a better light.

explorerx4

@oldfrmer, I don't get insulted if the first offer is below my expectations. The dealer is trying to make money, but they will take less than the initial offer many times.

ab348

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner, Maybe that dealership has the same owner as the one who gave henryn the runaround.

Yeah, I'm still baffled by that one...

dino001

To balance my GM-bashing propensity, I have to say that my worst dealer experiences by far are large chain stores under Japanese and Korean brands, except Subaru and some Mazda stores. They stem mostly from shameless fees, add-ons, ADM stickers (if you can believe those still exist in some markets) and pushy inattentive sales people who simply not listen and not answer even most direct questions about the deal. Most my visits there didn't go beyond a short test drive and vague numbers like xxx per month with "I dunno" after asking about specifics. I get so discouraged that run away screaming inside. It wasn't as likely to buy those things in the first place, but half hour seals the deal of NOT gettin one "today".

abacomike

dino001 said:

To balance my GM-bashing propensity, I have to say that my worst dealer experiences by far are large chain stores under Japanese and Korean brands, except Subaru and some Mazda stores. They stem mostly from shameless fees, add-ons, ADM stickers (if you can believe those still exist in some markets) and pushy inattentive sales people who simply not listen and not answer even most direct questions about the deal. Most my visits there didn't go beyond a short test drive and vague numbers like xxx per month with "I dunno" after asking about specifics. I get so discouraged that run away screaming inside. It wasn't as likely to buy those things in the first place, but half hour seals the deal of NOT gettin one "today".

Dino, if you know you have a propensity to "GM BASH" (as you stated in your first sentence of your post) then try to "temper" that urge or flaw prior to posting your comments.  OR, are you "not" admitting you have a propensity to GM bash and are just being facetious?

dino001

abacomike said:

Dino, if you know you have a propensity to "GM BASH" (as you stated in your first sentence of your post) then try to "temper" that urge or flaw prior to posting your comments.  OR, are you "not" admitting you have a propensity to GM bash and are just being facetious?

It was a joke. Does being critical of the company, its product, conduct and history and letting your negative opinion make you a bash? I admit, I am very critical of GM. Is that against the forum rules?

BTW, I would still buy a GM product before I did a Chrysler's. If it were Kia or Hyundai, I would analyze it first. In unrestrained world I admit, I never really looked seriously at a GM product. Malibu is probably closest, but I don't really look for a FWD midsize sedan. So, I don't buy an Accord, or Camry, either. But I see the appeal, if you like that kind of thing., I even hoped to get a Malibu as a rental. I have looked at Cadillacs (ATS or CTS) over the internet many times, but never went to a dealer, there will always be something that makes it unappealing, from the past record, to styling, to philosophy of the design. Current GGs troubles make me not want to even try, if there are other things I liked more already.

driver100

This Suburu ad with the injured Sheep Dog was refreshingly different:

https://youtu.be/DUTcA2fHXyk

dino001

Fantastic. Subaru has several "dog approved" commercials here. I like one with a lab family in a Forester and a female poodle crossing the street. The female lab growls at a wandering eye male lab "driver" . Histerical.

driver100

<<blockquote class="Quote">blockquote class="Quote" rel="roadburner">Finally- I have a sales story!
That didn't end well...
The following email that I sent to the "Business Development Manager" pretty much says it all:





RB, that is a terrible experience to live through....but, I would have been surprised if an e-deal would have worked out satisfactorily. I have tried to buy a car for someone online and though some dealers seemed pretty upfront about it, a great majority just use the internet as a way to catch a live one.

I would always advise a low expectation rate, and I sure wouldn't drive for more than an hour unless I was pretty certain it would work out.

driver100

Don't want to over do it, but I laughed out loud at this one!

https://youtu.be/x698U8vd_WE

abacomike

dino001 said:

Dino, if you know you have a propensity to "GM BASH" (as you stated in your first sentence of your post) then try to "temper" that urge or flaw prior to posting your comments.  OR, are you "not" admitting you have a propensity to GM bash and are just being facetious?

It was a joke. Does being critical of the company, its product, conduct and history and letting your negative opinion make you a bash? I admit, I am very critical of GM. Is that against the forum rules? BTW, I would still buy a GM product before I did a Chrysler's. If it were Kia or Hyundai, I would analyze it first. In unrestrained world I admit, I never really looked seriously at a GM product. Malibu is probably closest, but I don't really look for a FWD midsize sedan. So, I don't buy an Accord, or Camry, either. But I see the appeal, if you like that kind of thing., I even hoped to get a Malibu as a rental. I have looked at Cadillacs (ATS or CTS) over the internet many times, but never went to a dealer, there will always be something that makes it unappealing, from the past record, to styling, to philosophy of the design. Current GGs troubles make me not want to even try, if there are other things I liked more already.

Now that I know it was a joke, my apologies.  Your post sounded serious.  Hey, Dude, don't take out your anger or frustrations on me - OK!!!!!!!'

dino001

abacomike said:

dino001 said:

abacomike said:

Dino, if you know you have a propensity to "GM BASH" (as you stated in your first sentence of your post) then try to "temper" that urge or flaw prior to posting your comments.  OR, are you "not" admitting you have a propensity to GM bash and are just being facetious?

It was a joke. Does being critical of the company, its product, conduct and history and letting your negative opinion make you a bash? I admit, I am very critical of GM. Is that against the forum rules?

BTW, I would still buy a GM product before I did a Chrysler's. If it were Kia or Hyundai, I would analyze it first. In unrestrained world I admit, I never really looked seriously at a GM product. Malibu is probably closest, but I don't really look for a FWD midsize sedan. So, I don't buy an Accord, or Camry, either. But I see the appeal, if you like that kind of thing., I even hoped to get a Malibu as a rental. I have looked at Cadillacs (ATS or CTS) over the internet many times, but never went to a dealer, there will always be something that makes it unappealing, from the past record, to styling, to philosophy of the design. Current GGs troubles make me not want to even try, if there are other things I liked more already.

Now that I know it was a joke, my apologies.  Your post sounded serious.  Hey, Dude, don't take out your anger or frustrations on me - OK!!!!!!!'

I wasn't angry. I was a little before that, when called a drive-by, but not on your comment. I guess tongue in cheek doesn't come across so easily in writing.

abacomike

dino001 said:

dino001 said:

Dino, if you know you have a propensity to "GM BASH" (as you stated in your first sentence of your post) then try to "temper" that urge or flaw prior to posting your comments.  OR, are you "not" admitting you have a propensity to GM bash and are just being facetious?

It was a joke. Does being critical of the company, its product, conduct and history and letting your negative opinion make you a bash? I admit, I am very critical of GM. Is that against the forum rules? BTW, I would still buy a GM product before I did a Chrysler's. If it were Kia or Hyundai, I would analyze it first. In unrestrained world I admit, I never really looked seriously at a GM product. Malibu is probably closest, but I don't really look for a FWD midsize sedan. So, I don't buy an Accord, or Camry, either. But I see the appeal, if you like that kind of thing., I even hoped to get a Malibu as a rental. I have looked at Cadillacs (ATS or CTS) over the internet many times, but never went to a dealer, there will always be something that makes it unappealing, from the past record, to styling, to philosophy of the design. Current GGs troubles make me not want to even try, if there are other things I liked more already.

Now that I know it was a joke, my apologies.  Your post sounded serious.  Hey, Dude, don't take out your anger or frustrations on me - OK!!!!!!!'

I wasn't angry. I was a little before that, when called a drive-by, but not on your comment. I guess tongue in cheek doesn't come across so easily in writing.

No it doesn't!

dino001

driver100 said:

Don't want to over do it, but I laughed out loud at this one!


Ditto.

stever

It helps too when we stick to talking about cars and not each other. Ergo my slaughtering of the pig quote earlier.

dino001

Try this one.


http://youtu.be/eOVpc4vQ1Bw

ab348

dino001 said:

I wasn't angry. I was a little before that, when called a drive-by, but not on your comment. I guess tongue in cheek doesn't come across so easily in writing.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. [tongue in cheek]

berri

Be careful of that French model buddy. It will be all money and frustrations

verdugo

abacomike said:

Of course verdugo!  I believe I made that clear in my post.

Hi Mike,

I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to the OP who raised the point. You and I are on the same page.

abacomike

verdugo said:

Of course verdugo!  I believe I made that clear in my post.

Hi Mike, I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to the OP who raised the point. You and I are on the same page.

No problem.  I was just agreeing with you verdugo.  No sweat!  Things are cool!

verdugo

andres3 said:

verdugo said:

ab348 said:

It maybe time for the mods to impose a moratorium on posts dealing with the @GG situation. We have descended back into mindless Cadillac/GM-bashing again. As @robr2 said the other day, without suggesting that GG is embellishing anything, we are only hearing one side here and it is a sample size of one. It is getting pretty tiresome and annoying.

I disagree. I wouldn't consider that it's reached the level of bashing of GM.

The bashing has been limited to GG's particular car/dealership and company experience ... and deservedly so.

My family has owned a few GM products (in the 90's) and most of them were good (Oldsmobile Cutlass, Chevy Malibu,) and only one really bad (Cadillac Catera.)

Curious if you'd consider 2 for 3 "acceptable, poor, good???" If I had 2 EXCELLENT experiences, and then a lemon, it might balance out as "acceptable" if and only if:

1) The buyback process was dealt with fairly and quickly on the one lemon.
2) The excellent 2 cars were truly excellent and almost flawless or flawless.
3) If I looked at other (in my case Neon's) on the street, and they exhibited the same kinds of flaws and problems and cheapness, then I knew the lemon-ness was not exclusive to a few rare bad models. If it seemed I got a bad apple and the whole batch wasn't rotten, then I could maybe forgive the manufacturer.
4) Related to #3, dealerships culture should not reflect attitude that bad experience was "normal or expected."

We had multiple Oldsmobile Cutlass (Cutlasses?) so it's more than 2. :-)

henryn

Subaru does more than "talk the talk", they also "walk the walk". They have done quite a bit for animal rescue, and I applaud them for that.

Michaell

I think this is the kind of house we would all like to have:

https://www.facebook.com/SpeedSociety/photos/pcb.1216491678368132/1216491061701527/?type=1&theater

abacomike

henryn said:

Subaru does more than "talk the talk", they also "walk the walk". They have done quite a bit for animal rescue, and I applaud them for that.

Not to mention their support for public television.  What's even better is that they produce excellent automobiles!

stickguy

By far the best experience I have had communicating with a dealer (via Email, and last time text) was the Hyundai dealer in PA that I bought the Sonata from. This is the one that I started out using the Edmunds price promise from the phone app.

quick response, full answers, clear #s. and went I went in, it was smooth and professional (heck, they actually found a way to get the price down even more). And with the last car, I had similar good experience with their sister mazda and toyota stores.

I think it all comes down to the corporate culture of the dealership principals. This groups is apparently still family owned, and really tout their customer experience. they seem to sell a ton of cars, so it works!

Nothing but positives from me toward Faulkner dealers (around Philly).

I ran into a few in my travels recently that were, shall we say, not the same.

driver100

dino001 said:

Try this one.


http://youtu.be/eOVpc4vQ1Bw

Too cute....hilarious!

I wonder if those ads help sales...talking about buying and selling cars. I like them because they are pleasant to watch, the dogs are really cute, no talking down, very distinguishing....just simple cleverness. I suppose it would turn off people who don't like dogs. I know they had local ads on the TV in Tampa where a Suburu dealer talks about how they love their dogs and the dogs love being in a Suburu.

My thoughts are.....if I was looking for a car in that category....it may remind me to check out Suburu.

driver100

berri said:

Be careful of that French model buddy. It will be all money and frustrations

He was probably just looking!

driver100

Just a positive GM story, but not a great ending.

One fellow (about 75 yrs old) at tennis yesterday said he got a new car, and he traded in his 10 year old Buick. He said the car had 120k miles on it, it was a really good car, and they never had a problem with it.

I asked what he bought.

He said a new Elantra. He found the price of a replacement Buick would be too much, and he and his wife wanted something smaller and sportier feeling.

He might be an example of even though GM can make good cars, people don't come back for one reason or another.

graphicguy

I love Subaru's ads and marketing.

Interesting note about how GM is "leaving" the car market. This is an opinion, not a "bashing". As is typical, GM looks for everything except the obvious. It's the support of the product and the flawed thinking both engineering and field service embrace right now that has them in this quandary. They MUST up their customer service quotient, a lot. And, they have to do it in a very obvious, and a very measurable way. Then, they have to tell their potential customer what they're going to do, how they're going to do it, and give a path for their customers to report about the job they're doing.

Gotta say, my experience and my family experiences with Cadillac may very well put me off to ever stepping into a GM showroom ever again.

I can also comment on their adeptness at building, and supporting their customer on their SUVs and Trucks, which in my experience (owning a sterling Tahoe in the past) has been exemplary.

If, as the article states, GM is planning to leave the car business, they don't need the Cadillac brand, nor the Buick brand. Just make it Chevy and GMC. Chevy gets the Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, and a version of Buick's Enclave and Encore. GMC gets the SRX, a lower end Acadia, Sierra (I actually had to look that up as I didn't know what they called their pickup), Escalade, and a rebadged Tahoe.

It would be a much smaller company, which may not be a bad thing.

RB....My son bought his Fiesta from Kings a couple of years ago. I did the negotiation for him (which was my typical "here's my offer...tell me if you want to accept it" deal). I didn't run into that kind of experience, which I hate. But, I was dealing with probably the most senior sales guy there, who was recommended to me by a friend. Maybe they've changed in the last couple of years. I would have hoped by now that type of "hide and seek" selling wasn't employed anymore, until.....

Another friend, a retired Ford Engineer, asked me to take him to the nearest (to him) Ford dealer, Kerry Ford, as he had totaled his previous Explorer and needed a ride to look at the new ones as a replacement.

Always willing to spend other people's money, I took him to Kerry Ford so he could look at '16 Explorers and I was going to eyeball some new Mustangs. This was last Monday, so not a lot of people shopping for cars when we got there about 7:00 p.m. Right out front, there was a young guy, probably barely 21, who was waving his arm like Pete Townsend playing the guitar, to pull in right next to him. I got sort of a charge out of it because that was a first.[

We both roll out of my (loaner) XTS and he focuses on me.
"Trading the boat"?

Huh? That's a new approach. Even though the assessment of the car was more right than wrong, don't insult what clearly is a new $60K car a customer drives in.

Me.."nope, my friend here has some business with (Sales Manager's name) on an A plan Explorer."

My friend walks into the dealership seeking his contact. I go to the front row of the Mustangs and start looking for GT badges. Young sales guy sticks to me like fly paper. I stop at a yellow one with black interior...quite nice. Oh yeah.

Young sales guy sees I'm a bit taken with the car and talking faster than he's thinking blurts out..."I'll go get an offer sheet and write it up. You trading your car?"

Me (actually a bit loudly)..."I'm not in the market, so no sheet is necessarry".

He stops, comes back...."there's no way you would buy this car today? What if I told you it was free?"

Me..."then no need for an offer sheet. Just return with the title and we'll all be happy."

No response, he's off to the showroom, I guess expecting me to follow, as he turns around and gives me a wave to follow. "nah....I'm good wandering the lot."

He returns 5 minutes later with someone else he introduces as his boss. He says (sales name) tells me you want to buy this Mustang. "I don't know where he got the idea."

SM....:"any way to do a deal on this today?"

Me-nope.

SM...well, let me get your name and phone number so I can call you with any rebate and sales we might run.

Me...nope.

I go back to my car, sit in the A/C and wait for my friend (who didn't buy anything there, either).

Who the hell is training these guys? Terrible.

driver100

GG, I see Fiat Chrysler is trying to get GM to merge with FC once again.........

Sergio Marchionne, CEO of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, is taking another swing at trying to promote the idea of a merger with General Motors.

Marchoinne, in a story published Sunday evening by Automotive News, asserts that a merger between the two automakers could generate up to $30 billion annually in earnings before taxes.

The idea isn't new, but Marchionne's estimates of potential profits and his forceful tone are. The outspoken CEO sent GM CEO Mary Barra an email earlier this year outlining his idea for a merger of the two automakers and the reasons it makes sense. Since then, Barra has said both publicly and privately the Detroit automaker has no interest in exploring the idea.

FIAT CHRYSLER CEO WANTS MERGER WITH GM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes the current company, in this case GM, knows it will be merging one day, and they maximize profits in the meantime, and let the new guys deal with the lawsuits etc.

Also, that salesman who wanted to sell you a Mustang....you could have told him you would consider trading in a CTS for the right price.

suydam

As I said, sales of all brands of cars fell so GM has plenty of company. I see no signs that GM is leaving the car market. What they are doing is repositioning their brands. Buick is more upscale now so of course it costs more. In the next year or so they will introduce a more fuel efficient compact that will be much more attractive than the current Verano. Chevy has done redesigns of the Impala and Malibu. The Cruze was a good seller but is dated now and waiting a redesign. I've never been a GM customer until recently and it's because they had nothing to offer that interests me. Now they do. The Encore is very different from the Honda and Mazda CUV. Likewise the Verano is a much nicer car than either Civic or Corolla but it's lousy mileage rules it out for me at the moment.

stever

At least Sergio isn't going hat in hand to Mary, unlike Rick's approach to Bill and Alan. Sergio has a bit of precedent, since Rick and Bob had similar discussions back in '08.

(I feel like I'm typing in code...)

roadburner

graphicguy said:

RB....My son bought his Fiesta from Kings a couple of years ago. I did the negotiation for him (which was my typical "here's my offer...tell me if you want to accept it" deal). I didn't run into that kind of experience, which I hate. But, I was dealing with probably the most senior sales guy there, who was recommended to me by a friend. Maybe they've changed in the last couple of years. I would have hoped by now that type of "hide and seek" selling wasn't employed anymore, until.....

GG- let me clarify: Kings Ford was WONDERFUL- my only regret is that I didn't buy their Mustang on the spot. ANDY MOHR FORD outside of Indy is the one that played the dishonest games.

roadburner

Well, I received another email from the "Business Development Manager" apologizing for the "misunderstanding." It turns out at the very bottom of the web page it states: "PLUS certification on qualifying vehicles." Okay, I missed that- but I still think it is misleading to advertise a car as certified and not include the certification cost in the advertised price.
`
As for the "rear end damage," her Used Car manager claims that there were "scratches" on the rear bumper. Well guess what, I found said "scratches"- they were strings of chewing gum confined to a 3" by 5" area that had been thrown up by the rear tire. I rubbed it off with my finger. And even if they were scratches, how does that justify a 25% reduction in value?

Oh yeah, she still wants to sell me the car. That's definitely notgonnahappen.com.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Right out front, there was a young guy, probably barely 21, who was waving his arm like Pete Townsend playing the guitar, to pull in right next to him. I got sort of a charge out of it because that was a first.[

We both roll out of my (loaner) XTS and he focuses on me.
"Trading the boat"?

Nice sales shopping story.

I haven't been through enough Ford lots to have other than an opinion, but they operate like
hungry versions of salespersons at a toyota store. I know one deal in the area across from
an airport a car driving in to cruise the rows of meat they're offering is targeted just like
you were. One or more salespeople will walk along as I went up and down the rows. One
visit the guy was motioning to roll down my window (no way).

One visit when I wanted to sit in a Fusion and Focus in the showroom, the salesman
wouldn't leave me alone. I clearly told him I wasn't buying and was comparison shopping
for an indefinite purchase in the future.

I did learn that the store is open on Sunday mornings early and it's not even safe then
to cruise through, let alone get out of the car to read a sticker.

I recall a news article in March 2014 where the owner of that store and the adjacent
Nissan deal on the lot said he had a large number of Fusions on the ground to sell
and a large number on order from the factory "on the way." This was at a time when
the car sales had slowed.

andres3

stever said:

I read a lot of Dealer Reviews here. It's amazing how many people get run over at the dealer yet cave in because they have been at the showroom all day and they're tired and they just want to do a deal. Then they write a bad review after they review the contract the next day.

But won't that prevent them from getting the coveted "perfect" customer satisfaction score? I remember I gave low grades to my sales team at Honda with my first new car purchase there in November of 2002. They came up to me immediately (they did a paper survey right then and there before the finance office back then) and said why the low scores? I said they could have made the same deal we made HOURS (emphasizing the S) ago. And it still wasn't quite the right deal, but I was tired, was there forever, and budged a bit. I almost walked out, but they also budged.

If I wouldn't have said no, and started to motion to leave my chair, they weren't going to budge. They did a good job as I almost said yes, and remained very silent while I was thinking about the deal for quite some time. I was very close to saying yes, but my gut told me to say no. They used a good line "part of being a good negotiator is knowing when you have a good deal and taking it." Fortunately, I knew the "good deal" just wasn't that good. I think I got them to come down another $25 out the door (I know; not much), but more importantly from 9.9 to 7.9% on the rate. The rate is what we argued about the longest, as they said I had baby credit at the time, but I knew I had great credit, despite a limited background being a new graduate. Could have saved us a lot of time if I knew the 3-day contract buyout option was a legit thing and not a "trick." I ended up refinancing the deal the next month anyway with the credit union I originally wanted them to match, but they wouldn't quite match until the next day when I went back and the finance officer knew I had a frown despite owning a nice new car. I forget why I had to return the next day, but the finance officer actually changed the contract down from 7.9 to 5.9 since I told him that's what the CU approved me at. Despite all that, the CU dropped to 5.25 a month later so I moved the loan anyway.

stever

> But won't that prevent them from getting the coveted "perfect" customer satisfaction score?

You'd think so but then you'd miss out on your promised free oil change for a good survey.

/cynicism

Often people are happy with their salesperson and don't want to ding them - it's the sales manager or F&I office that makes them regret buying.

dino001

suydam said:

As I said, sales of all brands of cars fell so GM has plenty of company.

How did you get that? Sales are up almost across the board, with a few exception, Cadillac being one of them.

http://social.leasetrader.com/july-2015-u-s-auto-sales-by-the-numbers/

driver100

roadburner said:

Well, I received another email from the "Business Development Manager" apologizing for the "misunderstanding."

Oh yeah, she still wants to sell me the car. That's definitely notgonnahappen.com.

I would ask her to email you a complete agreement, with an all in price of whatever you want. Take it or leave it.
You have nothing to lose, and they will get one last chance to sell you a car.

dino001

graphicguy said:

Who the hell is training these guys? Terrible.

Classic. I can spot stores like that from ten miles. Those are ones with ads "YOU PAY" with asterisked five thousand dollar trade in or cash deducted. Seems like some people never learn. They'll always tell you those rude and inconsiderate tactics "work", because they can see they sold X units last month. What they don't see is how many people they scared away by such a behavior.

dino001

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

Well, I received another email from the "Business Development Manager" apologizing for the "misunderstanding."

Oh yeah, she still wants to sell me the car. That's definitely notgonnahappen.com.

I would ask her to email you a complete agreement, with an all in price of whatever you want. Take it or leave it.
You have nothing to lose, and they will get one last chance to sell you a car.

Yes he does. He can lose even more time. They can say yes again and then claim they "forgot" about XYZ fee or tax, or this was a different unit, not here anymore, or hundred other "reasons" the email is no longer good. You can't trust those kind of establishments even if it's written in blood.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

dino001 said:

Try this one.


http://youtu.be/eOVpc4vQ1Bw

Too cute....hilarious!

I wonder if those ads help sales...talking about buying and selling cars. I like them because they are pleasant to watch, the dogs are really cute, no talking down, very distinguishing....just simple cleverness. I suppose it would turn off people who don't like dogs. I know they had local ads on the TV in Tampa where a Suburu dealer talks about how they love their dogs and the dogs love being in a Suburu.

My thoughts are.....if I was looking for a car in that category....it may remind me to check out Suburu.

Subaru has done an excellent job of branding themselves as the car for the young hip socially conscience generation. The animal lovers are just icing on the cake. Bet they get together and watch those commercials over and over. Can't imagine there'd be a dog hater in the bunch.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

I love Subaru's ads and marketing.

Interesting note about how GM is "leaving" the car market. This is an opinion, not a "bashing". As is typical, GM looks for everything except the obvious. It's the support of the product and the flawed thinking both engineering and field service embrace right now that has them in this quandary. They MUST up their customer service quotient, a lot. And, they have to do it in a very obvious, and a very measurable way. Then, they have to tell their potential customer what they're going to do, how they're going to do it, and give a path for their customers to report about the job they're doing.

Gotta say, my experience and my family experiences with Cadillac may very well put me off to ever stepping into a GM showroom ever again.

I can also comment on their adeptness at building, and supporting their customer on their SUVs and Trucks, which in my experience (owning a sterling Tahoe in the past) has been exemplary.

If, as the article states, GM is planning to leave the car business, they don't need the Cadillac brand, nor the Buick brand. Just make it Chevy and GMC. Chevy gets the Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, and a version of Buick's Enclave and Encore. GMC gets the SRX, a lower end Acadia, Sierra (I actually had to look that up as I didn't know what they called their pickup), Escalade, and a rebadged Tahoe.

It would be a much smaller company, which may not be a bad thing.

RB....My son bought his Fiesta from Kings a couple of years ago. I did the negotiation for him (which was my typical "here's my offer...tell me if you want to accept it" deal). I didn't run into that kind of experience, which I hate. But, I was dealing with probably the most senior sales guy there, who was recommended to me by a friend. Maybe they've changed in the last couple of years. I would have hoped by now that type of "hide and seek" selling wasn't employed anymore, until.....

Another friend, a retired Ford Engineer, asked me to take him to the nearest (to him) Ford dealer, Kerry Ford, as he had totaled his previous Explorer and needed a ride to look at the new ones as a replacement.

Always willing to spend other people's money, I took him to Kerry Ford so he could look at '16 Explorers and I was going to eyeball some new Mustangs. This was last Monday, so not a lot of people shopping for cars when we got there about 7:00 p.m. Right out front, there was a young guy, probably barely 21, who was waving his arm like Pete Townsend playing the guitar, to pull in right next to him. I got sort of a charge out of it because that was a first.[

We both roll out of my (loaner) XTS and he focuses on me.
"Trading the boat"?

Huh? That's a new approach. Even though the assessment of the car was more right than wrong, don't insult what clearly is a new $60K car a customer drives in.

Me.."nope, my friend here has some business with (Sales Manager's name) on an A plan Explorer."

My friend walks into the dealership seeking his contact. I go to the front row of the Mustangs and start looking for GT badges. Young sales guy sticks to me like fly paper. I stop at a yellow one with black interior...quite nice. Oh yeah.

Young sales guy sees I'm a bit taken with the car and talking faster than he's thinking blurts out..."I'll go get an offer sheet and write it up. You trading your car?"

Me (actually a bit loudly)..."I'm not in the market, so no sheet is necessarry".

He stops, comes back...."there's no way you would buy this car today? What if I told you it was free?"

Me..."then no need for an offer sheet. Just return with the title and we'll all be happy."

No response, he's off to the showroom, I guess expecting me to follow, as he turns around and gives me a wave to follow. "nah....I'm good wandering the lot."

He returns 5 minutes later with someone else he introduces as his boss. He says (sales name) tells me you want to buy this Mustang. "I don't know where he got the idea."

SM....:"any way to do a deal on this today?"

Me-nope.

SM...well, let me get your name and phone number so I can call you with any rebate and sales we might run.

Me...nope.

I go back to my car, sit in the A/C and wait for my friend (who didn't buy anything there, either).

Who the hell is training these guys? Terrible.

That's similar to an experience I had years ago at a Dodge dealer. Frantic, almost desperate actions on the part of multiple sales people who seemed to be trying to steal the sale from each other. Came in to inquire about a used truck and they ended up trying to sell me a new one. Got out of there quick without buying either.

Oh yeah, the dealer went belly up a few months later.