Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

imidazol97

@ab348 said:
All I seek is some balance.

Yup.

imidazol97

http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/

You have to read down about two screens to find the beginning the article about a guy's work being a paid shill.

abacomike

@ab348‌ said:

"Many of those now writing about cars are what I call the Honda generation, and have a preference for Asian cars that is very apparent in their work."

What you state may be fact, however I was more of the opinion that automobile writers and publishing conglomerates favored and or leaned more towards German made products which I find just as absurd. MotorWeek seems to slant toward Asian brands and bows to the BMW/Mercedes/Bentley/Rolls/Jaguar etc. luxury sports sedans.

After reading all this mumbo-jumbo here on Edmunds and the auto magazines, I am even more suspicious of what is fact and what is fiction. When auto reviewers and evaluators skew their reporting one way or another, it turns my stomach.

But Asian manufacturers have definitely been the recipients of positively skewed reviews - and to be quite frank, GM and FORD build the same or better quality vehicles. But by reading all the reviews, you'd never know it!

roadburner

@driver100 said:
Unfortunately RB, they don't care what you think. The market for racing cars is small, the market for affluent Americans is large. It's a numbers game and the more people the car appeals to the more they will sell. BMW may have lost their heritage, but they are laughing all the way to the bank.

You might call it a "racing car," but enthusiasts call it a communicative chassis and a flawless ride/handling compromise. The long term problem for BMW is that the buyers that Munich is currently attracting almost certainly will NOT be brand loyal- they will be distracted by the next shiny flavor of the month bauble and abandon the marque in a heartbeat...

roadburner

@ab348 said:
I have learned a lot reading some of the forums here, especially the ones where people talk about buying used BMWs. Many if not most seem to have serious needs - exploding radiators, etc - yet are there recall campaigns for them? I do not know.

All I seek is some balance.

Well, if you'd read the BMW posts a bit closer, you'd know that the radiator and cooling system issues usually occur north of 100k miles- and often much longer than that(which has been my experience with my 1995 E36/5 and 2004 E83). Everything is a trade-off; to me the issues that I deal with that tend to be endemic to BMWs(or Mazdaspeed 3s, TJs,or T300s) are more than outweighed by the pleasure that they give me when I drive/ride them.

As I've pointed out numerous times before, I don't dislike GM. The fact of the matter is that-aside from the C7-I simply do not find any GM product to be even the slightest bit interesting to me. That doesn't make them bad cars- they just aren't on my radar.

ab348

@roadburner said:
As I've pointed out numerous times before, I don't dislike GM. The fact of the matter is that-aside from the C7-I simply do not find any GM product to be even the slightest bit interesting to me. That doesn't make them bad cars- they just aren't on my radar.

I don't recall anyone suggesting that you hate them. I've read this from you a few times now. I'm not sure where you're getting the suggestion.

jayrider

Just use your own judgement and buy what you like. Yours is the only opinion that counts.

isellhondas

Any car can have a fire. Who knows what caused it?

We can be Chicken Little and walk wherever we go I suppose.

driver100

@roadburner said:
You might call it a "racing car," but enthusiasts call it a communicative chassis and a flawless ride/handling compromise. The long term problem for BMW is that the buyers that Munich is currently attracting almost certainly will NOT be brand loyal- they will be distracted by the next shiny flavor of the month bauble and abandon the marque in a heartbeat...

I like that phrase..... enthusiasts call it a communicative chassis and a flawless ride/handling compromise.

That's why I enjoy my bmw and what I try to explain to people who don't understand what a bmw is all about. I also agree, I am not going to worry about rad or fuel line problems that may happen at 100K miles....it is too much fun driving the car until it reaches that point.

Like you, I am not too impressed with the newer softer riding BMW models, but, they seem to be what the masses prefer. bmw's still handle better and have more communicative chasis than most cars, but, they are changing.

stever

You never see anyone referring to Chrysler as "Government Motors" and they are on their second bailout.

berri

GM has the "biggest" syndrome that makes people pick on them like they do Wal-Mart or McDonald's. Toyota is starting to get afflicted too. I think some of D3 is nicer new than the foreign brands, but I'm still not convinced they hold up as well after the warranty expires. But then Asian cars are not as good holding up IMHO as well as say a decade ago. I think it's the "China" factor in parts.

oldfarmer50

"...When Toyota had that problem on Tacomas, they at least made an effort to make it good..."

Wish Toyota was that nice when I had my Toyota pick up. The frame was the only thing that didn't rust although when I shopped the junk yard for parts there were row after row of them with bad frames.

On the other hand my '88 GM van never had problems with the air bags...it doesn't have any.

dino001

@abacomike said:

Funny, you mentioned pie, Mike. American-style bakery goods, just like cars, is something I still have hard time getting used to, even after 16 years. Even oath of citizenship could not break my distaste to some of that stuff. Just like with cars, there are some excellent bakery products out there, but I find average cake or pie made in this country pretty abhorrent. I think the worst of them all are so-called "birthday cakes" sold in supermarket stores - to me, eating those is a punishment to both the "honored" person and his guests to eat those, just as it would be a punishment for me to own 2008 Ford Taurus, Chevy Impala, or (much worse) Cobalt. I think, in many respects they are very good metaphors for each other. Just like cars having way too much chrome and too soft seats and suspension, pies and cakes have too much sugar and shortening, and very little more.

Things are getting better and trends are changing, I can now say there are some of those American brand cars more appealing, especially inside. Seats got better, for the most part, ergonomics improved, quality of materials often exceeds that of Japanese counterparts, especially in higher trims of each model, but sometimes even in base models as well, partially due to evident cost cutting at Toyota and Honda. However, whether it is luxury (Lincoln ,Cadillac) or mainstream (Chevrolet, Chrysler), I still find majority of American branded vehicles bulky and aesthetically unappealing from the outside - I know some like those waterfall chrome grills or "take no prisoners attitude" from Cadillac, for me it's a repellant, amplified by their horrible advertising. After that ad that I mentioned already (one with "luxury through centuries, slaves sold separately" theme), I'd be simply embarrassed to buy a car. At this point it doesn't matter if it's reliable, well priced, or has a great content. All I can see is an Egyptian noble being carried by slaves, or Marie Antoinette waving the crowd before her execution.

One American brand car that I have liked over the years has been Ford Focus. It was known to have really good suspension, decent engine and performance, sharp lines (most of the generations anyway). It obviously came from Europe, got a bit Americanized (engines, slightly softer suspension), but kept most of its good features. There may have been some quality problems here or there, but nothing fatal. Generally good value overall. If I wanted a quality economy sedan, Focus would be on my list.

driver100

Did anyone see that clip > @dino001 said:y, you mentioned pie, Mike. American-style bakery goods, just like cars, is something I still have hard time getting used to, even after 16 years.
>

Great analogy Dino. European taste in art, cars, furniture etc is very different. I know what you are saying about lots of chrome and sugar.

I am starting to look for my next vehicle, going to do some preliminary scounting for an A6 and possibly Jaguar. I thought this would be a good chance to try a Cadillac CTS but I just don't think I can bring myself to try one. I have images of an old guy with a big cigar driving down the highway......................

graphicguy

@imidazol97 said:
http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/

You have to read down about two screens to find the beginning the article about a guy's work being a paid shill.

Interesting IMID. I've always wondered about those "political" posts I see pratically every day on Facebook. I've never responded or read many of them. But, I do see some of my friends being sucked into their alleged "debates". I thought that someone, somewhere had to be controlling the content and tone of those posts.

Being a Home Theater enthusiast, I've even seen some "posters" who seem to be just a bit too chummy with a particular audio/video company. I often wondered of they were paid shills.

Even when I was researching a cruise for the wife and I, I ran across an article about how Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines had been caught paying people, customers to shill for them. They would spread false information about Royal's competition, for example, claiming the food on another cruise line made them ill, or that service on another cruise line was poor, etc). Then, they would spread "false good reports" on Royal Cruises they had not even taken.

I can't see why that wouldn't be prevalent in the car industry, too.

I suppose the old adage is true.....don't believe everything you read.

ab348

And when I think of Euro luxury cars I think of some overly tanned, slicked-up dude with a case of B.O. wearing lots of gold chains and an open-neck shirt.

Stereotypes work both ways, guys...

snakeweasel

> @driver100 said:
> I thought this would be a good chance to try a Cadillac CTS but I just don't think I can bring myself to try one. I have images of an old guy with a big cigar driving down the highway......................

Go ahead and try one, doesn't hurt to look it might change your perception. If you don't like it no problem at least you looked.

abacomike

@dino001‌ said:

"Funny, you mentioned pie, Mike. American-style bakery goods, just like cars, is something I still have hard time getting used to, even after 16 years."

I used a "metaphor" to describe the buying habits of mid-20th century Americans. Like, "...what's more American than Apple pie?"

Yes, there was a time I could walk into a bakery and buy outstanding bread, pies, cakes, etc. except for a very few isolated areas, those bakeries are gone. Out here in the CA Desert Cities, there are still some great bakeries - but the cost is almost prohibitive except on rare occasions like Thanksgiving or Christmas. Back home in Florida, I have to travel 10 miles to find a specialty bakery for great breads, pies and cakes.

As for cars, it's the same. Quality and reliability are hard to find along with great styling, comfort and handling. It seems if you want great styling, the other attributes are lacking.

But your points are well thought out and well expressed.

I guess it's time to roll out of bed and greet the beautiful sunrise this morning.

dino001

@ab348 said:
And when I think of Euro luxury cars I think of some overly tanned, slicked-up dude with a case of B.O. wearing lots of gold chains and an open-neck shirt.

Stereotypes work both ways, guys...

They do. That would be one type of people driving 3-series - probably leasing it and trying to get to Jersey Shore.

dino001

@driver100 said:
Did anyone see that clip?

Here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3im23e4Z-gY

Great and catchy song, terrible content. This basically defines bad taste in luxury. I repeat myself, but all I can think of is "slaves sold separately".

oldfarmer50

@driver100 said:
I have images of an old guy with a big cigar driving down the highway......................

So don't smoke.

imidazol97

@graphicguy said:
I suppose the old adage is true.....don't believe everything you read.

Interesting IMID. I've always wondered about those "political" posts I see pratically every day on Facebook. I've never responded or read many of them. But, I do see some of my friends being sucked into their alleged "debates". I thought that someone, somewhere had to be controlling the content and tone of those posts.

I hear advertisements on Cincy radio or Columbus about offers to change the public image of your business when people do a search. They offer to cover up bad comments, probably by posting lots of good ones with the right keywords in the metadata.

I was searching comments on trivago.com and maps.google.com for Pigeon Forge motels and found a few reviews would slam the motel and a few were glorious accolades about the motel. One claimed a motel had bedbugs and they left with 60 bites. No other posts by that name. Others were by Bill Anonymous from Richmond, KY, and Bill had made a couple of other reviews of restaurants while in the PF area. Lots more credible.

On maps.google I could click on the poster's icon and see other posts by the same person. Those other posts often verified them as a real person randomly posting their opinion. Same thing goes for posts on amazon.com about items. I look at other posts to see if the posters seem to be real.

This effort to mold company image has been around since toyota's sludge problem. (Yeah, I know other companies had sludge too.) There was a poster who was attacking a person who was actively anti toyota, due to their resistance to admitting the fault was the engine and instead toyota was blaming the owners.. The shill followed the poster from forum to forum and befriended hosts and attempted to make trouble and agitate to get the forum closed. Even got one toyota friendly group to delete all the old posts, which were full of information about the true source of the sludge problem. That person I found even practiced posting on a site for aspiring attorneys to hone their debate skills. The person seemed to be from Canada in the area of a large operation by toyota east of Detroit. That was based on various usernames on different forums and information given on the various sites by the shill.

roadburner

This article on shills is a bit dated, but still informative.

I'm almost certain that I ran across a paid shill for Lincoln a while back on the Car and Driver "Backfires" forum. People were commenting on a road test of a Lincoln and the general consensus was that the car was a tarted-up Ford. All of a sudden a guy popped in talking about how there were xx number of differences between the two cars and how the car was going to compete against Brand ABC but not Brand XYZ, etc. Another participant and I commented the guy sounded like a paid shill and the Lincoln fan went dead silent.

I was also commenting on a USA Today automotive article which mentioned BMW and Buick. That site only allows comments through Facebook and thus it was easy to see where the loudest brand cheerleaders actually worked...

Mr_Shiftright

I bet King Tut didn't buy finance his pyramid at 7% on a 72 year loan.

There's actually a very obscure historical irony in that commercial which I doubt many folks will remember. In the 1930s, Cadillac forbid the sale of Cadillacs to black people. They had to pay shills to straw buy the cars for them.

Of course, that's a long gone prejudice and no relationship to current times are implied, but as an amateur historian, it caught my attention in the commercial.

dino001

@Mr_Shiftright said:
I bet King Tut didn't buy finance his pyramid at 7% on a 72 year loan.

LOL, well in lieu of cash back, he might have got no interest loan.

imidazol97

@roadburner said:
Another participant and I commented the guy sounded like a paid

shill and the Lincoln fan went dead silent.

Maybe he was offended and just didn't post further because of that
allegation made which wasn't true in his case.

driver100

@dino001 said:Great and catchy song, terrible content. This basically defines bad taste in luxury. I repeat myself, but all I can think of is "slaves sold separately".

And to make it worse it is a totally blinged out Escalade. It looks like an Escalade with the "Special Bling" option.

driver100

@oldfarmer50 said:

So don't smoke.

LOL.

driver100

@Mr_Shiftright said:
I bet King Tut didn't buy finance his pyramid at 7% on a 72 year loan.

Cadillac forbid the sale of Cadillacs to black people. They had to pay shills to straw buy the cars for them.

That is interesting, and of course times have changed so no parallel with todays GM.

driver100

Checked Audi A6 a bit, sat in it, narrowed down the model I would want. Go back this afternoon with my wife to actually drive it. So far, I just like the 535 more...the feel of it. The salesman said I should try the others. People who look at Audi's compare to BMW. People who look at Mercedes compare them to Lexus. People who buy Jaguars come in and want the German feel of the road again. I didn't ask about Cadillac but I might next time I see him.

stickguy

Driver, just me, but if I already had an A4 and a Passat, I would not get an A6. Too much similarity there. To me the 4 and 6 blur together too much.

Kirstie_H

@nyccarguy said:
My parents are currently shopping for a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Are they shopping for a new one? A 2014?
Consumers who own and have reviewed this SUV on our site are some of the unhappiest owners I've seen for any make/model in a LONG time: http://www.edmunds.com/jeep/grand-cherokee/2014/consumer-reviews.html?sub=suv

Ignore the aggregate 4-star rating - our ratings system has so many variables to check that it's possible to have a vehicle with awful mechanical and build quality issues receive a high aggregate rating. Seems that transmission and electrical problems are a very common complaint.

nyccarguy

Thank-you. It seems like they are having lots of problems with the 8 speed automatic. Yikes! The review that really concerns me starts off with: "After working for Chrysler for 42 years and driven nothing but Chrysler products..." and ends with: "Ok I think I'll try a Ford." I'll pass the new info along. Seems like they'll be better off with the MB.

Kirstie_H

@nyccarguy said:
Thank-you. It seems like they are having lots of problems with the 8 speed automatic. Yikes! The review that really concerns me starts off with: "After working for Chrysler for 42 years and driven nothing but Chrysler products..." and ends with: "Ok I think I'll try a Ford." I'll pass the new info along. Seems like they'll be better off with the MB.

Obviously there are no guarantees with any vehicle, but after reading/moderating some of those, the problems with the new JGC really stuck with me. Most vehicles have a mix of reviews with mostly GOOD reviews, and the problems experienced don't have a pattern/aren't tied to the same component. There are several that mention the windshield wipers coming on randomly, and the inability to turn them off, along with a few other electrical wizardry. Those issues + the multitude of transmission woes would certainly steer me away right now.

roadburner

@imidazol97 said:
Maybe he was offended and just didn't post further because of that allegation made which wasn't true in his case.

Seriously? When is the last time someone was "offended" on the internet and took his/her ball and went home? 99.9 times out of one hundred the aggrieved party ramps up the controversy exponentially.

snakeweasel

> @abacomike said:
> Yes, there was a time I could walk into a bakery and buy outstanding bread, pies, cakes, etc. except for a very few isolated areas, those bakeries are gone. Out here in the CA Desert Cities, there are still some great bakeries - but the cost is almost prohibitive except on rare occasions like Thanksgiving or Christmas. Back home in Florida, I have to travel 10 miles to find a specialty bakery for great breads, pies and cakes.

Not sure I would agree. Here if you look (not to) hard enough you can find some really good bakeries in some of the older neighborhoods. The problem is to many people want to stop by the bakers squares of the world and get their mass produced crap.

snakeweasel

> @imidazol97 said:
> This effort to mold company image has been around since toyota's sludge problem. (Yeah, I know other companies had sludge too.)

Actually it has been around since Imhotep started his pyramid building company. Companies, and people, have molded their images since before recorded history. Even Capone opened soup kitchens to get public sympathy.

abacomike

@snakeweasel‌ said:

"Not sure I would agree. Here if you look (not to) hard enough you can find some really good bakeries in some of the older neighborhoods."

Back in Southeast Florida, where I live, all the proprietorship bakeries all closed and moved north to Boca Raton, Delray Beach, Wellington, etc. the older people who appreciated great baked goods are dying off.

Now if you want great bagels, that's another thing. I love salted bagels and there are a few places that still make them. Too many people shy away from the salt - but I can picture myself being picked up by the funeral home with a salted bagel hanging out of my mouth and cream cheese on my upper lip. What a way to go.

abacomike

SPEAKING OF BRAND LOYALTY

I honestly believe there is not enough recent research on this phenomenon - although there is quite a bit in the 1930's-1990's. How much does brand loyalty figure in to modern car buying behaviors?

Back in the 1930-1970 period, it was estimated that 70% of car buyers considered themselves brand loyalists. With the advent of the Japanese into the automobile import business (into the US), brand loyalty began to have less of an impact on this phenomenon of car buying practices.

Today, there is still a segment of the car buying public who lean toward brand loyalty, but it's impact is much less that 60 years ago. I was an Olds and Pontiac loyalist - would never buy a Ford because my entire family (parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc.) were GM'ers. Buying anything but a GM product was literally heresy.

Today, the brand loyalists are a dying breed, but still impact sales one way or another. The problem is that there are so many car brands to choose from that one's eyes tend to stray one way or another. Ratings have an impact as well, much more so than in the past.

cdnpinhead

@Mr_Shiftright said:
In the 1930s, Cadillac forbid the sale of Cadillacs to black people. They had to pay shills to straw-buy the cars for them.

Many years ago Southwest Forest Industries had a sawmill in McNary, Arizona. I was living near Whiteriver at the time, so had numerous occasions to visit McNary, since that's where the "company store," the bank and the theater were.

Point being, there were many shacks with Cadillacs out front. I'll leave it at that, else I'll be even more despised by the politically-correct, of whom there is no shortage, here or anywhere else.

The rest of the story is that the Fort Apache Indian Reservation (their name, not mine), saw fit to run Southwest out, and McNary (along with Maverick) is now a ghost town. No more Cadillacs, or Yugos, for that matter.

Progress, I guess.

[Deleted User]

I’m happy to report we’ll be ordering a 2015 Subaru Outback to be delivered later in the year.

We started our search with the BMW diesel 3 series wagon and came away impressed with the drivetrain but underwhelmed with the newer BMW interior quality. Ultimately the lack of published and BMW-supported tow specifications eliminated the option from the list. For reasons apparently only known to BMW, they’re happy to support European customers towing, but not Americans.

Our next test drive was the Volvo V60 with the new 4-cylinder turbo charged engine. What a great engine and beautiful car! Truly we were impressed with the quality, handling, acceleration, and incredible fuel economy. I almost can’t believe Volvo is able to return such amazing fuel economy given the power output from the motor. Our reservations included a mandatory sunroof, low interior volume measurement, lack of rear leg room, and low ride height.

I then commenced an Internet search for all the vehicle options available to us using the following parameters:

• Best in category safety.
• 2,000 lbs towing capacity or higher.
• Excellent fuel economy.
• Room for a golden retriever, people, and gear.
• Under $40,000.
• Preferably AWD, but not required. No rear-wheel drive.
• Brand and model reputation for decent reliability and low operating costs.

In the end, the Subaru seemed to be the best choice for our needs. The challenge came down to how to option it out. We detest sunroofs. We want leather and the Subaru Eyesight system, but to get those two requires a Limited trim that adds the sunroof and other options we don’t want.

(to be continued)

[Deleted User]

We considered dropping the Eyesight option, but several discussions in the last two weeks have changed our minds. The final discussion that swung me towards Eyesight was actually a candidate I was interviewing for a position reporting to me at work, and he was recovering from a significant accident that would have been prevented with Eyesight. At that point I made the decision that if I could afford a safety system that may save my family, myself, or others the pain and agony related to a preventable accident, then I must act on that ability and choose safety over leather or hatred for a sunroof.

So, we went down a trim level to Premium and opted out of the leather. We can add aftermarket leather later if it bothers us, but considering the van we’re replacing is fabric and we’ve been happy for 12 years, I don’t anticipate doing so.

Once we picked our trim level over the weekend, I worked up the pricing on an Excel sheet with the options, MSRP, Invoice, and my target price. I also researched contact info for 7 dealers near us. In the process of choosing the Outback, we had visited 2 different local dealers with 2015s in stock that gave us a perspective of the Premium vs Limited, and we decided to give them first shot. We visited one Saturday, but he told us they were blocked by Subaru from ordering Eyesight due to heavy demand and limited supplies. We checked that finding with others and confirmed we could indeed order, we just couldn’t expect delivery until later in the year when Subaru caught up.

Today I emailed both those two local dealers with my options and the price I thought was fair, which was 3% under invoice plus TTL. I arrived at that number by reading the online forums and choosing a slight aggressive figure knowing I had time to wait if needed. Gratefully, one came back right away with a positive confirmation that we can order and at a price that was just $50 higher than what I quoted. I was fine with that number, and tonight we’ll head over to place the order into Subaru’s system along with a deposit.

Exciting! I’m thinking delivery will probably be late October, hopefully in time for me to apply Opti-Coat 2.0 before the temperatures become too cold to properly cure it. Eyesight has been delayed and the only deliveries with the option have been demo cars for the press. Time will tell.

Mr_Shiftright

No of course not. But if you read back some in pop culture you'd see that Cadillac was once the "forbidden fruit" to a lot of poor people, white, black or whatever. As soon as someone struck it rich in the 30s, 40s and 50s (like Elvis or a major sports star), they'd buy themselves the biggest glitziest Caddy they could find. Whether it was Texas steerhorns, or Elvis's mink carpeting and gold lame curtains, Cadillac and "good taste" didn't always walk hand in hand.

@driver100 said:
That is interesting, and of course times have changed so no parallel with todays GM.

abacomike

@tyguy said:

"We considered dropping the Eyesight option, but several discussions in the last two weeks have changed our minds."

Great choice, TY, and congrats. Suburu is a great brand and, for the most part, enjoys excellent ratings. I've driven the new Legacy, and if the outback is anything like the ride, handling and performance of the Legacy, it will be awesome !

Michaell

@tyguy said:
So, we went down a trim level to Premium and opted out of the leather. We can add aftermarket leather later if it bothers us, but considering the van we’re replacing is fabric and we’ve been happy for 12 years, I don’t anticipate doing so.

ty, when I got my Saturn L300 back in '02, I really wanted leather. However, the car the dealer had in stock was cloth, so I took the opportunity to add Katzkin aftermarket leather (and heated seats).

Wonderful experience! I was able to choose a custom color that complemented both the interior trim and exterior color perfectly - I received many compliments on the color over the years.

It was, IIRC, something like $1200 or $1500 to have it added - seats, door cards, heating elements.

cdnpinhead

@Mr_Shiftright said:Whether it was Texas steerhorns, or Elvis's mink carpeting and gold lame curtains, Cadillac and "good taste" didn't always walk hand in hand.

This is most certainly true. During the golden years that I lived in the Vancouver (BC) area, I kept my boat in West Vancouver for awhile (Fishermans' Cove). Beautiful area, with many stunning dwellings, but there were also the ones with stone lions out front, gingerbread & many other things that Honey Boo Boo's family would prefer.

There's no accounting for taste, and I prefer to share my space with those who, well, never mind.

dino001

Congrats, Ty. Subaru is an excellent choice. I believe it is literally safest line of vehicles (every single non-WRX model is best pick in IIHS for number of years running). WRX is not endorsed only because it is not "compatible" with the image and message of IIHS, not because of any actual safety issues.

ab348

@Kirstie_H said:
Obviously there are no guarantees with any vehicle, but after reading/moderating some of those, the problems with the new JGC really stuck with me. Most vehicles have a mix of reviews with mostly GOOD reviews, and the problems experienced don't have a pattern/aren't tied to the same component. There are several that mention the windshield wipers coming on randomly, and the inability to turn them off, along with a few other electrical wizardry. Those issues + the multitude of transmission woes would certainly steer me away right now.

Wow, good thing it isn't a GM vehicle - there would be so many stop-sale orders and recalls issued against them that they'd be stacked up like cordwood on dealer lots waiting for parts to be tooled up and manufactured. But since it's a Chrysler (or any non-GM brand), just let people drive them with wipers that won't turn off, flaky electronic circuitry, transmissions that won't shift, whatever.

ab348

@Mr_Shiftright said:
There's actually a very obscure historical irony in that commercial which I doubt many folks will remember. In the 1930s, Cadillac forbid the sale of Cadillacs to black people. They had to pay shills to straw buy the cars for them.

Well, since we're going back to the bad old days, let's not forget that Henry Ford was a rabid anti-Semitic and many Jewish folks would never buy Ford products because of his rantings. He would, however, take their money if they were foolish enough to offer it. Imagine that today.

driver100

@stickguy said:
Driver, just me, but if I already had an A4 and a Passat, I would not get an A6. Too much similarity there. To me the 4 and 6 blur together too much.

Interesting observation stick, considering how my day went. I sat in and checked an A6 in the morning. I went back with my wife for a test drive. I like my wifes A4, it is sporty and fun. The A6 is competant and handles well, but is very similar to my 535. Some things I like more on the A6, some on the 535. I like the big windows, the long wide low hood on the 535, the GPS built in to the instrument panel, and the faster response. I like the way the seats are higher in the A6 and the steering is a little tighter.

Buying a new car should be exciting, but, I wasn't overwhelmed. It seemed I was trading cars just to get a newer car with a warranty.

On the way home we stopped at the Mercedes dealer. We both fell in love with the E350 which will become an E400 for 2015 and will have an all new larger engine.. The interior is so much nicer than the A6 and 535 and you can get it in a very light ivory color with lots of black for accent. I can get a flat bottom steering wheel as a nextra. It has lots of options, cameras front and back, lane change warning, lane warning, sunroof back and front. I like white or there is a light gray color that is possible.

I am really excited about the E350. It will cost about 10% more than the other two, but it has a lot more. The ride is smooth and solid. No turbos, but it does have 300 hp and has lots of power.

I hope they give me a good trade in allowance and 4% off on the new one.