Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

graphicguy

We'll see how this plays out. The dealer says Cadillac Corp really leaves some of the communications with them regarding the buy back open for interpretation....for example...

-"The customer will be credited for any out of pocket cash contribution made on the old unit"

What does that mean? Delivery fees? Gas and time taking the car back and forth to the dealer for service?

-"The customer will be eligible for any rebates offered on the replacement unit"

I thought it was supposed to be a like for like swap? What if the rebates weren't nearly the same on the old unit as on the new unit?

-"The customer will not be charged any useage fees".

Again, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they won't charge me any mileage, or wear and tear fees? That is my interpretation, but the dealer says they need clarifiction.

-"The customer will be allowed to buy any dealer in stock unit for a price equal to the price paid for the old unit. Dealer will sell new unit to Mr. "GG" for net cost of unit, with all rebates going to Mr. "GG". All dealer holdback and dealer incentives are to be deducted from the cost of the vehicle."

That part seems relatviely straight forward.

Again, they say they estimate it will take 45 days for all this to transpire.

We'll see!

Mike I'll give it a shot to live up to what I expect. I agree with you. If I decide to get rid of it, the cost of doing so with no miles, or 3 months old and a few thousand miles isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.

The dealer is about 10 miles (maybe less) from my house. I've never had much luck striking a deal with them in the past. They are part of a large dealership group in Cincinnati. But, as I mentioned ealier have totally turned over managment and staff over the last several weeks. So, maybe it's a sign they are looking to go in a different direction, which would be a good thing for them.

This is sort of a diffent business transaction for both of us, though. They seem to be willing to work with me for what will probably end up being no money for them.

carnaught

The Caddy is sharp; also love the brown interior. Really hope it works out for you.

imidazol97

I thought the car is beautiful. I looked it up the other day after you gave the color and interior--I knew which dealer it had to be. I just hope this deal works out satisfactorily. But the wording of some of the things GG just posted sound like it's more of a trade in deal rather than an exchange where GG gets the keys to the new car and leaves the used one, two model years old, behind for no extra money.

oldfarmer50

PF_Flyer said:

Always like the bold yellow. Heck, there was an Isuzu VehiCROSS around here in the yeloow that I kinda liked the look of

I've always had a liking for yellow cars but I never had the courage to be that flamboyant. Besides I see plenty of yellow as it is.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

I thought the car is beautiful. I looked it up the other day after you gave the color and interior--I knew which dealer it had to be. I just hope this deal works out satisfactorily. But the wording of some of the things GG just posted sound like it's more of a trade in dealer rather than an exchange where GG gets the keys to the new car and leaves the used one, two model years old, behind for no extra money.

I am sure that if there are any "shenanigans" between Cadillac, the dealer, etc., GG will just refuse the deal.  

isellhondas

abacomike said:

andres3 said:

I thought some were arguing going 1 MPH would be safer than going close to the 85th percentile speed? To heck with average traffic velocity, some think slower is safer.

I think we should make the speed limit 0.00 MPH. That would make deaths and injuries from "speed kills" zero annually. If less is good, zero's got to be great right?

I know I'm going to take grief for responding to this post - but sometimes you "gotta do what ya gotta do!"

Andres, I would have thought by the time you reached manhood that you would have learned that "you don't beat a dead horse!"  Why? In the horse's case he's dead and doesn't feel a thing.  In the case of speed limits and safe driving speeds, there's a point where one has to learn that continuing a campaign to win a point of view contest is like beating a dead horse OR your continuing campaign is "falling on deaf ears!"

No grief from me but do what I (usually) do when I see a couple of poster's names...Use your scroll wheel on your mouse!

Oh, I know that's hard to do sometimes.

henryn

graphicguy said:

We'll see how this plays out. The dealer says Cadillac Corp really leaves some of the communications with them regarding the buy back open for interpretation....for example...

-"The customer will be credited for any out of pocket cash contribution made on the old unit"

What does that mean? Delivery fees? Gas and time taking the car back and forth to the dealer for service?

-"The customer will be eligible for any rebates offered on the replacement unit"

I thought it was supposed to be a like for like swap? What if the rebates weren't nearly the same on the old unit as on the new unit?

-"The customer will not be charged any useage fees".

Again, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they won't charge me any mileage, or wear and tear fees? That is my interpretation, but the dealer says they need clarifiction.

-"The customer will be allowed to buy any dealer in stock unit for a price equal to the price paid for the old unit. Dealer will sell new unit to Mr. "GG" for net cost of unit, with all rebates going to Mr. "GG". All dealer holdback and dealer incentives are to be deducted from the cost of the vehicle."

That part seems relatviely straight forward.

Again, they say they estimate it will take 45 days for all this to transpire.

We'll see!

Mike I'll give it a shot to live up to what I expect. I agree with you. If I decide to get rid of it, the cost of doing so with no miles, or 3 months old and a few thousand miles isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.

The dealer is about 10 miles (maybe less) from my house. I've never had much luck striking a deal with them in the past. They are part of a large dealership group in Cincinnati. But, as I mentioned ealier have totally turned over managment and staff over the last several weeks. So, maybe it's a sign they are looking to go in a different direction, which would be a good thing for them.

This is sort of a diffent business transaction for both of us, though. They seem to be willing to work with me for what will probably end up being no money for them.

I think this is going to very quickly become “sticky”. It very definitely does NOT sound like you trade keys and walk away, very much NOT.

Reading all of the above, carefully, more than once, I wind up with this:

If you paid $41k for the old Cadillac, and the new Cadillac is $51, then you will owe the difference, $10k. If there are $3k in incentives, then that would be deducted, and you would owe $7k.

All my numbers are made up, by the way.

And it becomes even stickier if you traded in on the old one. Say the old one had an MSRP of $50k, and your trade was really worth $5k. The dealer will often write the papers as
$50,000 minus $10,000 trade in, you owe us $40,000


What I’m saying here is that the papers you sign very often don’t bear much resemblance to the reality of the deal. So who is to say / determine how much, exactly, you paid for the old Cadillac? Are they just going to go by the window sticker, the MSRP?

verdugo

isellhondas said:

No grief from me but do what I (usually) do when I see a couple of poster's names...Use your scroll wheel on your mouse!

Oh, I know that's hard to do sometimes.

If only we had some magical technology to let us bypass those posts. I don't know, something like an ignore feature that every other single forum in the planet has. That sure would be nice.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

I've always had a liking for yellow cars but I never had the courage to be that flamboyant. Besides I see plenty of yellow as it is.

I prefer a more muted yellow. GM sold a lot of this color in the late '60s. Chevy called it Butternut Yellow.

jwm40517

GG
I hope the deal is set up so you do not have to pay sales tax again. On an even swap there likely would be no additional tax. Might be different if they buy your car and sell you another one. Could amount to about $4000 in tax.

abacomike

ab348 said:

I've always had a liking for yellow cars but I never had the courage to be that flamboyant. Besides I see plenty of yellow as it is.

I prefer a more muted yellow. GM sold a lot of this color in the late '60s. Chevy called it Butternut Yellow.

ab348, if I ever was crazy enough - or full blown Alzheimer's took control of my mind which "forced" me to buy a yellow car, I am sure I would go ALL THE WAY with the brightest, most eye-catching yellow I could find.  

By the way, I despise "school bus yellow" (no insult intended oldfarmer) because when I was a school principal, school buses caused me the most stress of any thing I had to deal with - breakdowns, late arriving buses, discipline in the buses, etc.

So you won't catch me dead in a car that was school bus yellow!!!  

abacomike

@graphicguy:

GG, the bottom line is all you care about or need to know!  You tell the Cadillac dealer handling this so called "swap" - "...if this is going to cost me anymore than 1 plug nickel, don't bother going back and forth with Cadillac!  Just give me all the money I paid for the original 2014 - OTD cost, and let's just get this over with..."

berri

ab, I really liked those pale yellow, and there was also a pale blue, GM colors back in the 60's. Thought they looked particularly nice and kind of classy on the full size models. But before you take my opinion, I will warn you that as for Camaro's, I actually preferred the early 2nd gen, say 70-72 models (before they got fat)

carnaught

abacomike said:

@graphicguy:

GG, the bottom line is all you care about or need to know!  You tell the Cadillac dealer handling this so called "swap" - "...if this is going to cost me anymore than 1 plug nickel, don't bother going back and forth with Cadillac!  Just give me all the money I paid for the original 2014 - OTD cost, and let's just get this over with..."

But then they'd have to call it a buy-back, and it seems like that's what they're trying to avoid.

BTW, if a simple swap is done in a lemon case, how is the "Lemon Lawyer" compensated?

graphicguy

carnaught said:

abacomike said:

@graphicguy:

GG, the bottom line is all you care about or need to know!  You tell the Cadillac dealer handling this so called "swap" - "...if this is going to cost me anymore than 1 plug nickel, don't bother going back and forth with Cadillac!  Just give me all the money I paid for the original 2014 - OTD cost, and let's just get this over with..."

But then they'd have to call it a buy-back, and it seems like that's what they're trying to avoid.

BTW, if a simple swap is done in a lemon case, how is the "Lemon Lawyer" compensated?

If the Lemon Lawyer was involved, at least according to the one I spoke to, they'd charge an additional amount to compensate for their services, and Cadillac would pay for it.

So, I'm figuring the "new" '16 CTS lists for about $64K. Invoice is about $60K. Holdback is about $2K. Another $4K from Cadillac in purchase rebates. Another $2K in rebatres comes off since I'm a current Cadillac owner. Given all that, I'm figuring a price of $52K for the '16.

My '14 stickered for about the same price. But, my purchase price was about $8K less because of rebates at the time.

That's not relevant, though. Because what I agreed to was an even swap with no out of pocket.

So, lots of questions here. Dealer has a bunch, too. Cadillac has my purchase info on my '14, so none of this should be dificult to figure out. They get the old car back with the title signed over to them, I get the new car with the title signed over to me. Sounds simple to me.

houdini1

henryn said:

graphicguy said:

We'll see how this plays out. The dealer says Cadillac Corp really leaves some of the communications with them regarding the buy back open for interpretation....for example...

-"The customer will be credited for any out of pocket cash contribution made on the old unit"

What does that mean? Delivery fees? Gas and time taking the car back and forth to the dealer for service?

-"The customer will be eligible for any rebates offered on the replacement unit"

I thought it was supposed to be a like for like swap? What if the rebates weren't nearly the same on the old unit as on the new unit?

-"The customer will not be charged any useage fees".

Again, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they won't charge me any mileage, or wear and tear fees? That is my interpretation, but the dealer says they need clarifiction.

-"The customer will be allowed to buy any dealer in stock unit for a price equal to the price paid for the old unit. Dealer will sell new unit to Mr. "GG" for net cost of unit, with all rebates going to Mr. "GG". All dealer holdback and dealer incentives are to be deducted from the cost of the vehicle."

That part seems relatviely straight forward.

Again, they say they estimate it will take 45 days for all this to transpire.

We'll see!

Mike I'll give it a shot to live up to what I expect. I agree with you. If I decide to get rid of it, the cost of doing so with no miles, or 3 months old and a few thousand miles isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.

The dealer is about 10 miles (maybe less) from my house. I've never had much luck striking a deal with them in the past. They are part of a large dealership group in Cincinnati. But, as I mentioned ealier have totally turned over managment and staff over the last several weeks. So, maybe it's a sign they are looking to go in a different direction, which would be a good thing for them.

This is sort of a diffent business transaction for both of us, though. They seem to be willing to work with me for what will probably end up being no money for them.

I think this is going to very quickly become “sticky”. It very definitely does NOT sound like you trade keys and walk away, very much NOT.

Reading all of the above, carefully, more than once, I wind up with this:

If you paid $41k for the old Cadillac, and the new Cadillac is $51, then you will owe the difference, $10k. If there are $3k in incentives, then that would be deducted, and you would owe $7k.

All my numbers are made up, by the way.

And it becomes even stickier if you traded in on the old one. Say the old one had an MSRP of $50k, and your trade was really worth $5k. The dealer will often write the papers as
$50,000 minus $10,000 trade in, you owe us $40,000


What I’m saying here is that the papers you sign very often don’t bear much resemblance to the reality of the deal. So who is to say / determine how much, exactly, you paid for the old Cadillac? Are they just going to go by the window sticker, the MSRP?

Henryn, I hope you are wrong, but I must admit, I am having those same thoughts. These guys are shysters and that is sop for them. They could drag this out for another 45 days and then act surprised when GG balks at their deal when it is fully explained. Could be just another step in delaying matters and wearing him down.

stickguy

it does sound simple enough. and given the voluminous history GG has already, why should this take 45 days? really should happen in about 1.

I can't wait to see what they finally put out i fron

jpp75

stickguy said:

it does sound simple enough. and given the voluminous history GG has already, why should this take 45 days? really should happen in about 1.

I can't wait to see what they finally put out i fron

And it should be simple enough, but it wouldn't surprise me if Lucy pulls the football back before Charlie Brown kicks it....again.

driver100

verdugo said:

isellhondas said:

No grief from me but do what I (usually) do when I see a couple of poster's names...Use your scroll wheel on your mouse!

Oh, I know that's hard to do sometimes.

If only we had some magical technology to let us bypass those posts. I don't know, something like an ignore feature that every other single forum in the planet has. That sure would be nice.

A spam feature would be good........a particular person posts and it automatically goes into your spam box.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

We'll see how this plays out. The dealer says Cadillac Corp really leaves some of the communications with them regarding the buy back open for interpretation....for example...

-"The customer will be credited for any out of pocket cash contribution made on the old unit"

What does that mean? Delivery fees? Gas and time taking the car back and forth to the dealer for service?

-"The customer will be eligible for any rebates offered on the replacement unit"

I thought it was supposed to be a like for like swap? What if the rebates weren't nearly the same on the old unit as on the new unit?

-"The customer will not be charged any useage fees".

Again, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they won't charge me any mileage, or wear and tear fees? That is my interpretation, but the dealer says they need clarifiction.

-"The customer will be allowed to buy any dealer in stock unit for a price equal to the price paid for the old unit. Dealer will sell new unit to Mr. "GG" for net cost of unit, with all rebates going to Mr. "GG". All dealer holdback and dealer incentives are to be deducted from the cost of the vehicle."

That part seems relatviely straight forward.

Again, they say they estimate it will take 45 days for all this to transpire.

We'll see!

Mike I'll give it a shot to live up to what I expect. I agree with you. If I decide to get rid of it, the cost of doing so with no miles, or 3 months old and a few thousand miles isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.

The dealer is about 10 miles (maybe less) from my house. I've never had much luck striking a deal with them in the past. They are part of a large dealership group in Cincinnati. But, as I mentioned ealier have totally turned over managment and staff over the last several weeks. So, maybe it's a sign they are looking to go in a different direction, which would be a good thing for them.

This is sort of a diffent business transaction for both of us, though. They seem to be willing to work with me for what will probably end up being no money for them.

Better have your lawyer review everything.

driver100

GG, I am concerned too. I am concerned for all the reasons stated, plus the old low ball sales trick used by car dealers for generations.

You get a price you like for a car, you go home and tell your family, the neighbors, your friends that you will be buying a new car the next day.

You are pretty excited. Then you go in to buy at the agreed price and their are extras plus things they didn't tell you. It's a technique to make you pay more so you won't have to tell all these people you don't have a new car. It even works psychologically on the consumer because now he will convince himself he has to have the new car.

The 45 days is a big red flag too....what could take 45 days to figure out?

Not saying the deal may be completely legit, just saying............I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I've always had a liking for yellow cars but I never had the courage to be that flamboyant. Besides I see plenty of yellow as it is.

I prefer a more muted yellow. GM sold a lot of this color in the late '60s. Chevy called it Butternut Yellow.

ab348, if I ever was crazy enough - or full blown Alzheimer's took control of my mind which "forced" me to buy a yellow car, I am sure I would go ALL THE WAY with the brightest, most eye-catching yellow I could find.  

By the way, I despise "school bus yellow" (no insult intended oldfarmer) because when I was a school principal, school buses caused me the most stress of any thing I had to deal with - breakdowns, late arriving buses, discipline in the buses, etc.

So you won't catch me dead in a car that was school bus yellow!!!  

School bus yellow is actually 'National Chrome'.

carnaught

You get a price you like for a car, you go home and tell your family, the neighbors, your friednds that you will be buying a new car the next day.

You are pretty excited. Then you go in to buy at the agreed price and their are extras plus things they didn't tell you. It's a technique to make you pay more so you won't have to tell all these people you don't have a new car. It even works psychologically on the consumer because now he will convince himself he has to have the new car.


If this happened to me, I'd be sure to till family and friends what the dealer did to me that caused me not to take the car.

abacomike

Remember a week or so ago I posted about my Dad's Social Security pension for June being snatched back to the SSA right out of his checking account the day after he died?  Further, that after filing correct paperwork it still had not been returned after almost 4 months?  As I posted, I went to Congressman Ted Deutch's office and signed a complaint to try to see if he could succeed where I had failed.  I received a letter back from him that he had officially inquired why my Dad's money had not been paid.

Well, this morning, my checking account was increased by $648 due to an electronic deposit from Social Security.  My brother got his by check.  

I guess sometimes it takes an Act(ion) of Congress(man) to get this government of ours to do what is supposed to get done.  I sent Congressman Deutch an email thanking him.

Just another example of what happens when a government gets so big and uncontrollable that it no longer serves the people it is supposed to serve!  

ab348

graphicguy said:

We'll see how this plays out. The dealer says Cadillac Corp really leaves some of the communications with them regarding the buy back open for interpretation....for example...

-"The customer will be credited for any out of pocket cash contribution made on the old unit"

What does that mean? Delivery fees? Gas and time taking the car back and forth to the dealer for service?

I take that to mean that if you put $5000 cash down on the original car, that you are credited for that.

-"The customer will be eligible for any rebates offered on the replacement unit"

I thought it was supposed to be a like for like swap? What if the rebates weren't nearly the same on the old unit as on the new unit?

Another credit on your side of the ledger, but maybe with a caveat (see below).

-"The customer will not be charged any useage fees".

Again, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they won't charge me any mileage, or wear and tear fees? That is my interpretation, but the dealer says they need clarifiction.

I know that often in a buyback situation there is a charge of $0.15 per mile or whatever on the returned car for mileage used. It sounds like they are waiving that. Good for your side.

-"The customer will be allowed to buy any dealer in stock unit for a price equal to the price paid for the old unit. Dealer will sell new unit to Mr. "GG" for net cost of unit, with all rebates going to Mr. "GG". All dealer holdback and dealer incentives are to be deducted from the cost of the vehicle."

That part seems relatively straight forward.

Yes, it sounds like they are saying what you paid for the old one is what you paid for the new one.

It seems that the one issue is the relative amount of rebates/incentives that may have applied originally versus now. I would exclude dealer discounts or other price reductions that were not offered by Cadillac corporate from that.

Good luck!

isellhondas

jwm40517 said:

GG
I hope the deal is set up so you do not have to pay sales tax again. On an even swap there likely would be no additional tax. Might be different if they buy your car and sell you another one. Could amount to about $4000 in tax.

In most states you only pay tax on the difference. Trade in a 10,000 car for a 25,000 car sales tax would only be paid on 15,000. Other states, you pay tax on the whole selling price of the new car.

Yeah, this could get murky.

henryn

Most likely everyone here remembers me bragging about the service department at West Houston Volkswagen. They are really nice people to do business with, and always treated me very well. Recently, there have been some very good deals offered up on new Volkswagens. I read an article just this past week which said that VW of America was offering twice the industry average for rebates / incentives.

So of course, I have been monitoring the local dealers web sites, looking for great deals. I am not above taking advantage of someone else’s misfortune. Today, WestHoustonVw.com, the dealer I mentioned above, threw up some unbelievable prices. $16,182 for a 2015 Passat 1.8T Limited. This is about $2k better than any other dealer in town, and piqued my curiosity.

I called, talked to a salesman. “Yes, we have several in stock, at that price. If you qualify for the loyalty incentive ($2k), I can sell you that car at that price. If you have great credit, I can finance you for 60 months at 0% at that price.” So I drove across town, in the rain. Guess what? The salesman is a lying [non-permissible content removed]. There is a $3k lease incentive. You have to lease to get that price, they will not / can not sell at that price.

Oh, and another $1,000 of that is in a trade incentive. So you have to qualify for the loyalty incentive, you have to lease, and you have to have a trade in. They could have said that on the web page. And for dang sure, they should have said it on the phone.

West Houston Volkswagen has a world class service department. They really take care of you, treat you nicely, go to bat for you getting things taken care of out of warranty. But you do NOT want to try and buy anything there.

js06gv

graphicguy said:

carnaught said:

abacomike said:

@graphicguy:

GG, the bottom line is all you care about or need to know!  You tell the Cadillac dealer handling this so called "swap" - "...if this is going to cost me anymore than 1 plug nickel, don't bother going back and forth with Cadillac!  Just give me all the money I paid for the original 2014 - OTD cost, and let's just get this over with..."

But then they'd have to call it a buy-back, and it seems like that's what they're trying to avoid.

BTW, if a simple swap is done in a lemon case, how is the "Lemon Lawyer" compensated?

If the Lemon Lawyer was involved, at least according to the one I spoke to, they'd charge an additional amount to compensate for their services, and Cadillac would pay for it.

So, I'm figuring the "new" '16 CTS lists for about $64K. Invoice is about $60K. Holdback is about $2K. Another $4K from Cadillac in purchase rebates. Another $2K in rebatres comes off since I'm a current Cadillac owner. Given all that, I'm figuring a price of $52K for the '16.

My '14 stickered for about the same price. But, my purchase price was about $8K less because of rebates at the time.

That's not relevant, though. Because what I agreed to was an even swap with no out of pocket.

So, lots of questions here. Dealer has a bunch, too. Cadillac has my purchase info on my '14, so none of this should be dificult to figure out. They get the old car back with the title signed over to them, I get the new car with the title signed over to me. Sounds simple to me.

If your purchase price of the '14 was 8K less than the 52K you are estimating for the '16, and it had the same list of 64K, then you paid 44K for the '14? 20K off was a helluva deal. I hope they don't pull anything funny given the substantial discount you got to begin with.

abacomike

Checked on Gas Buddy (app that lists pump prices for all gas stations in your vicinity) for PUG prices this morning.  I usually use Chevron because it is normally only 5-7 cents a gallon more than Costco.  But the Chevron price was 2.79.9 per gallon and Costco's price was $2.46.9 per gallon.  33 cents per gallon savings is significant so I filled the tank (took 18 gallons) @33 cents per gallon savings amounted to $5.94 total savings on the full-up.

Costco is a top tier gasoline and equivalent to Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Texaco, etc.  It made sense to save some cents (did I just make a pun?) this time.  Costco is usually only a 5-10 cent savings, but this was a bonanza!  

driver100

henryn said:

Most likely everyone here remembers me bragging about the service department at West Houston Volkswagen. They are really nice people to do business with, and always treated me very well. Recently, there have been some very good deals offered up on new Volkswagens. I read an article just this past week which said that VW of America was offering twice the industry average for rebates / incentives.

So of course, I have been monitoring the local dealers web sites, looking for great deals. I am not above taking advantage of someone else’s misfortune. Today, WestHoustonVw.com, the dealer I mentioned above, threw up some unbelievable prices. $16,182 for a 2015 Passat 1.8T Limited. This is about $2k better than any other dealer in town, and piqued my curiosity.

I called, talked to a salesman. “Yes, we have several in stock, at that price. If you qualify for the loyalty incentive ($2k), I can sell you that car at that price. If you have great credit, I can finance you for 60 months at 0% at that price.” So I drove across town, in the rain. Guess what? The salesman is a lying [non-permissible content removed]. There is a $3k lease incentive. You have to lease to get that price, they will not / can not sell at that price.

Oh, and another $1,000 of that is in a trade incentive. So you have to qualify for the loyalty incentive, you have to lease, and you have to have a trade in. They could have said that on the web page. And for dang sure, they should have said it on the phone.

West Houston Volkswagen has a world class service department. They really take care of you, treat you nicely, go to bat for you getting things taken care of out of warranty. But you do NOT want to try and buy anything there.

Total rip off, and disrepectful of your time and intelligence.

I know most people wouldn't take the time, but I would write to the manager/owner telling them their ad was a waste of your time. The problem is it probably gets the results they want so they won't care.

A Passat for $16000 would be one great deal.......but seems unrealistic. We paid $23k for a manual 2013 model. That was an average price which was fine......I wasn't going to drive all over Florida trying to save $100.

nyccarguy

@verdugo - how's do you lie your GC?

driver100

nyccarguy said:

@verdugo - how's do you lie (I think nyc meant like)your GC?

Good question.....I would like to know too!

graphicguy

Thanks again, everyone. All of you bring up good points!

I'm waiting for answers, too.

Rebates, etc shouldn't matter. It's a "like for like" swap. No money changing hands. Taxes are paid on the difference. But again, that shouldn't matter. There should be no "net" cost difference.

"Here are the keys and title to our car, give us the keys and title to your car." And, I drive away. Whatever Cadillac and the dealer have to do internally to make the swap, and what, if any, monies that have to change hands from Cadillac to the dealer, are of no consequence to me. That's between them.

45 days to transact? Ummm....what's that about?

I was feeling good about this before, as I could see a light at the end of the tunnel. Not so much, now.

suydam

Don't worry over a shot you haven't taken yet. Be cautiously optimistic.

stickguy

GG, you were in this for the long haul anyway. If Caddy tries to pull another flim flam move, you just walk out and fire the LL proceedings back up. They must want to get rid out you by now too!

driver100

GG, there is not a lot of trust left, so as suydam said......be cautiously optimistic.

If they just trade it probably means they know you got them.

If it is a scam they are just doing what they normally do, get your hopes up and stall to try and break you.

Maybe the LL people told them it wasn't looking good for them.

What state has that double or triple payment? That's what you should get.

nelsonf

driver100 said:

henryn said:

Most likely everyone here remembers me bragging about the service department at West Houston Volkswagen. They are really nice people to do business with, and always treated me very well. Recently, there have been some very good deals offered up on new Volkswagens. I read an article just this past week which said that VW of America was offering twice the industry average for rebates / incentives.

So of course, I have been monitoring the local dealers web sites, looking for great deals. I am not above taking advantage of someone else’s misfortune. Today, WestHoustonVw.com, the dealer I mentioned above, threw up some unbelievable prices. $16,182 for a 2015 Passat 1.8T Limited. This is about $2k better than any other dealer in town, and piqued my curiosity.

I called, talked to a salesman. “Yes, we have several in stock, at that price. If you qualify for the loyalty incentive ($2k), I can sell you that car at that price. If you have great credit, I can finance you for 60 months at 0% at that price.” So I drove across town, in the rain. Guess what? The salesman is a lying [non-permissible content removed]. There is a $3k lease incentive. You have to lease to get that price, they will not / can not sell at that price.

Oh, and another $1,000 of that is in a trade incentive. So you have to qualify for the loyalty incentive, you have to lease, and you have to have a trade in. They could have said that on the web page. And for dang sure, they should have said it on the phone.

West Houston Volkswagen has a world class service department. They really take care of you, treat you nicely, go to bat for you getting things taken care of out of warranty. But you do NOT want to try and buy anything there.

Total rip off, and disrepectful of your time and intelligence.

I know most people wouldn't take the time, but I would write to the manager/owner telling them their ad was a waste of your time. The problem is it probably gets the results they want so they won't care.

A Passat for $16000 would be one great deal.......but seems unrealistic. We paid $23k for a manual 2013 model. That was an average price which was fine......I wasn't going to drive all over Florida trying to save $100.

How can they "sell" you a car, if it's only lease eligible , and how can they "finance you for 60 months at 0%" if it's a lease?

Total bull...

oldfarmer50

Why would anyone shop at a dealer?

I was toying with the idea of buying 19" wheels for my Mustang and I wound up on the Ford site. First off it was very user unfriendly but the real frustration came when I saw the prices. The standard 19" wheels went for over $900 each. Are the kidding?

I've found similar after market wheels for under $200. Why would anyone pay that kind of premium? That's just plain greedy.

carnaught

graphicguy said:

...........,"Here are the keys and title to our car, give us the keys and title to your car." And, I drive away. Whatever Cadillac and the dealer have to do internally to make the swap, and what, if any, monies that have to change hands from Cadillac to the dealer, are of no consequence to me...............45 days to transact?

I'm sure there would be a plethora of papers, waivers to sign.

Re: the "45 days", I wonder if that's to allow a reasonable chance for the car you want to be sold, then pawn off an inferior one or demonstrator on you? Do you know if they are holding that car for you?

stickguy

Nelson, I think the dealers consider you buying or leasing the same thing. They are "selling" a car. Leasing is really just an alternate way to finance. But yes, the 0% loan rate would not apply to a lease.

so you could buy outright with financing at one price, or lease with different incentives (at a different cap cost, but most leasees probably don't pay attention to what that is!)

I wonder what that Passat lease would be, with all the lease cash + loyalty? I should go get one, just to have a spare!

stickguy

Farmer, just be careful what you buy. Not all aftermarket wheels are the same. At least the Ford ones you know what to expect, and they will be warrantied. Some of the cheap ones are cheap for a reason, and you don't want them on your car.

still, you should be able to find a quality aftermarket set for cheaper. Just do your research!

Mr_Shiftright

That's a good point, Stick...I wouldn't cheap out on wheels either. I'd check on their name reputation and some user reviews, perhaps at tirerack.com or similar.

graphicguy

carnaught said:

graphicguy said:

...........,"Here are the keys and title to our car, give us the keys and title to your car." And, I drive away. Whatever Cadillac and the dealer have to do internally to make the swap, and what, if any, monies that have to change hands from Cadillac to the dealer, are of no consequence to me...............45 days to transact?

I'm sure there would be a plethora of papers, waivers to sign.

Re: the "45 days", I wonder if that's to allow a reasonable chance for the car you want to be sold, then pawn off an inferior one or demonstrator on you? Do you know if they are holding that car for you?

Not sure what they do with the old car. Don't really care. They said they were holding the car I had chosen. Dealer sent the vin# for it to the Cadillac Customer Service rep and the Cadillac Regional Rep. Don't know if that means they're holding it, though.

You would think that GM and/or Cadillac, having been in business as long as they have, that they have become so "shady" as a company. None of my dealings with them have been easy and I always feel like I need to hold my wallet every time I get a notice from them, or I have to talk to them on the phone.

stever

45 days seems to be a long time to take a car out of inventory while the parties "try to work something out". It's not like GM is trying to decide on what Christmas card to send out. (WSJ)

If it all falls apart, maybe you can add (more) delay and (more) bad faith to the claim.

verdugo

driver100 said:

nyccarguy said:

@verdugo - how's do you lie (I think nyc meant like)your GC?

Good question.....I would like to know too!

Hi everybody. Still loving it. We don't drive it much. Got it in mid February and it has about 5,600 miles. About 1500 of that was a road trip to Crater Lake, OR --> Mendocino, CA --> back to Sacramento.

Everybody comments on how good it looks and how nice the interior is (I have an Overland.) The neighbor across from my house had never talked to me in 3 years, never even waved hello. When he saw it, he came over and talked to me for about 20 minutes because he's interested in buying one (not sure if he ended up getting one. He's moved.)

The only problem has been with the radio. When you start it up, the XM radio sometimes takes a bit (20 seconds or so) before you can change stations. It hasn't bothered me enough to do something about it.

If you'd like to know anything else, just let me know here or send me a pvt message.

Mr_Shiftright

How was Crater Lake?

carnaught

"You would think that GM and/or Cadillac, having been in business as long as they have, that they have become so "shady" as a company. None of my dealings with them have been easy and I always feel like I need to hold my wallet every time I get a notice from them, or I have to talk to them on the phone."

GG, if you end up shaking hands with them at the end of the deal, be sure to count your fingers .

abacomike

carnaught said:

"You would think that GM and/or Cadillac, having been in business as long as they have, that they have become so "shady" as a company. None of my dealings with them have been easy and I always feel like I need to hold my wallet every time I get a notice from them, or I have to talk to them on the phone." GG, if you end up shaking hands with them at the end of the deal, be sure to count your fingers .

I'd worry about my whole right arm!  

driver100

verdugo said:

driver100 said:

nyccarguy said:

@verdugo - how's do you lie (I think nyc meant like)your GC?

Good question.....I would like to know too!

Hi everybody. Still loving it.

The only problem has been with the radio. When you start it up, the XM radio sometimes takes a bit (20 seconds or so) before you can change stations. It hasn't bothered me enough to do something about it.

If you'd like to know anything else, just let me know here or send me a pvt message.

Glad you are lovin the GC. My XM can take awhile....probably 10 to 15 seconds at the most to find the station when I first start up. It can take the same time to figure out the USB stick is plugged in. Seems to depend on various external factors...how close I am to the garage door, outside temp, maybe where the satellite is.

driver100

Saw too really good movies.....have never seen two movies in one weekend before. To enjoy these movies you have to appreciate dialogue though....these are not action movies.

We saw the Steve Jobs movie and it was fascinating. How this genius had no empathy for anyone, and how he could be such an egomaniac. But, imagine, thinking up Apple devices, and then devices for music - MP3 players, and then helping to make Pixar, and bringing Apple back from bankrupcy.

Today we saw Bridge of Spies based on true events in the 50s. Some of the 1950 cars shown were incredible too, really nice to see. (I did think the opening shot was supposed to be 1957 and I believe there was a 59 Plymouth parked on the street). The movie was based on a real story and Tom Hanks was brilliant.

If these movies were on your list then be sure to see them, they were so worthwhile.