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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,375

    BUT....you don't bargain for your refrigerator. The dealers set up their showrooms like a Turkish rug market, so they can't have it both ways here.

    If new cars had a bar code that the dealer scanned as you cashed out, then they wouldn't get so aggravated.

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    "...Why should car buyers know exactly what a dealer paid for a car?

    If you buy a new camera, jewelry or construction material, you don't know this nor should you."

    Well, maybe because you're spending $30-$40 thousand instead of $3-$4 hundred.

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  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 12,236

    @mako1a said:
    Ford F150 Crew Cab XLT. Richard, all of your choices have merit. I have done a lot of research on the F-150 in all of it's levels. XL and XLT are base levels. Lariat is when they get a lot of goodies. Then once you drive a Platinum you won't want to see another XLT. Limited is over the top. Platinum has the retractable step which I found to be perfect. Also the 2015s are supposed to be all aluminum. No rust ever and 400 pounds lighter. The ecoboost engine has only been out since 2011 and I've heard nothing but good about it except it costs abut $4k more. I like the tried and true 302 engine (5.0 litre).

    That all aluminum body would come in handy in my area but I understand the frame is still steel. I heard it's 700 pounds lighter which would be astounding.

    Is the 5.0L the same Coyote engine they put in the Mustang GT? That would make for one screaming truck.

    2015 Mustang GT, 2009 PT Cruiser, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,089

    Shifty, heck yeah you can deal on your fridge. any electronics or appliances are fair game. Not quite as commonplace as with a car, but not at all unexpected.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 31,089

    Richard, i have an irrational impulse to get a PU again. I actually had one many years ago (early 90s). when we bought our first single family house, I splurged on a 1991 Nissan extended cab PU. RWD, 4 cyl, 5 speed stick. Burgandy. I really liked that truck. Even after I hit a deer with it! Came in very handy. Bought a used DR set (saved a bundle) along with a bunch of other stuff.

    sadly, only had it for about a year, because my son came along, and you could not put a car seat in the sideways facing jump seats.

    for you, the new Chevy/GMC looks like a really nice unit. But that vs. the Ford is certainly a matter of personal taste. Too big for me though.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited June 2014

    I've haggled at Nordstrom's and do it at motels all the time. Just have to ask the right person and no worries if the answer is no. Years ago I knew a site that would tell you what a builder was paying to build a house, so you could get an idea of the materials and labor cost and figure how much profit the builder was making.

    From the Help files:

    Our TMV pricing system estimates a vehicle’s average transaction price, not its “out the door” cost. Therefore, TMV prices DO take into account any incentives and fees that may affect the transaction price, including:
    •manufacturer-to-dealer incentives (i.e. dealer cash)
    •destination charges
    •advertising fees (when applicable)

    However, TMV prices DO NOT include the following incentives and fees that are typically applied after a transaction price has been determined:
    •manufacturer-to-consumer rebates (i.e. cash rebates)
    •sales tax
    •license/registration fees
    •dealer title/documentation (“doc”) fees

  • mako1amako1a VirginiaPosts: 1,855

    Is the 5.0L the same Coyote engine they put in the Mustang GT? That would make for one screaming truck.

    Farmer, No. It's a regular 5.0 that costs around $2-3k. The Coyote is priced in the $8k range and is a totally different engine. However you can still get a used Lightning.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863

    Busy time here:

    Last Sunday - Father's Day - I coached my lacrosse team in 3 games in one morning. The girls played great and it was a great end to the season.

    Last Weekened - Father's Day Weekend - my son ran in the New Balance Outdoor Nationals in Greensboro, NC as part of a distance medley relay team. They took 9th place overall, set a new school record and my son set a personal record in the 800 m portion. Two other boys were All Americans - one in the 5K setting a school record and another in the 1 mile race walk also setting a school record.

    This week - my daughter is finishing middle school and had so many activities and "graduation" on Monday.

    This past Saturday was my son's Eagle Scout Court of Honor. He and another boy combined their ceremonies. My son was given a commendation from our town naming yesterday "Son of Robr" Day!! It was pretty funny.

    Next week - focus on work and try to make some money.

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog North CarolinaPosts: 6,984

    @mako1a said:
    Ford F150 Crew Cab XLT. Richard, all of your choices have merit. I have done a lot of research on the F-150 in all of it's levels. XL and XLT are base levels. Lariat is when they get a lot of goodies. Then once you drive a Platinum you won't want to see another XLT. Limited is over the top. Platinum has the retractable step which I found to be perfect. Also the 2015s are supposed to be all aluminum. No rust ever and 400 pounds lighter. The ecoboost engine has only been out since 2011 and I've heard nothing but good about it except it costs abut $4k more. I like the tried and true 302 engine (5.0 litre).

    I do like the Lariat with the extra goodies though it cost quite a bit more. I found some XLTs with rear camera, wood trim, etc. that are nicely priced---about $8k off sticker. I'm mot going with the 4x4 because the truck will never leave pavement under my ownership. I saw a really nice Chevy 1500 that I liked, plus I know the dealer and his son personally. I'm thinking that they would give me a really good deal. Still, there is just something about the design of the F150 that I like a little bit more. I'm finding the car web sites very interesting---some easy to navigate, others not so easy. As a dealer trying to attract customers, I would want a user friendly web site.

    Richard

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 14,803

    @isellhondas said:
    Heck yes it can be too hot to have the top down!

    It can be bad enough around here where 80 degrees is a heat wave but try driving top down in Phoenix in August! You won't have that top down for long!

    While I have never been in Phoenix I have been in Arizona and Nevada in August with triple digit heat with the top down. OK Arizona was with a hard top but the A/C was off and the windows open, but Nevada was 100+ heat with a top down.

    I have also been in triple digit temps with high humidity with the top down.

    Fact is I never use A/C unless the wife is with me or its really hot and it's raining.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 14,803

    @stickguy said:
    so Richard, what are the prime contenders at this point?

    and I enjoyed watching the Open last week and seeing shots of Pinehurst. Looked like a beautiful town. But probably horrible to be there during a major tournament.

    It would be, I lived a few miles from Medinah Country Club back one time when they hosted the US Open. That was an absolute nightmare, traffic would grind to a halt anywhere near that place.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,044
    edited June 2014
    @snakeweasel said:

    "While I have never been in Phoenix I have been in Arizona and Nevada in August with triple digit heat with the top down."

    From 1991-1998, I lived in Palm Desert, CA (one of the 10 cities in the Coachella Valley which includes Palm Springs). From April through October, temps averaged between 98-115 degrees almost daily with some relief during spring and late fall - but rarely. Humidity levels were 30-35% in the mornings (when golf courses were sprinkled) but dropped into the 15-20% level in afternoon and early evenings.

    The only time you could drive a convertible during that part of the year was in the late evenings when temps dropped into the. 90's.

    I used to frequent Las Vegas which was a 4 hour drive from Palm Desert and the heat there was just as bad. Where I lived was called "low desert" and Vegas is considered "high desert" (3200 ft elevation). My grandson was born in Phoenix and I traveled there frequently. Phoenix is more humid than Palm Desert and Las Vegas because of the monsoonal air glow from the Baja Peninsula - air flow is from the southwest that time of year (late summer) and thunderstorms are fairly frequent as the temps rise in Phoenix in the afternoon.

    But winters out there in the desert southwest are extremely dry (5% relative humidity is not uncommon). I had to have a humidifier running every night to prevent nose bleeds. But driving a convertible from November through April in the southwest is heavenly!

    The best time of the year out there

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 14,803

    @imidazol97 said:
    But they get irritable when someone points out that deficiency and they start babbling about how they could be sued if they charge someone a different fee than someone else is charged.

    Then why cant they be sued for charging a different price on a car? Or is that putting to much logic into the argument.

    Here in Ohio, the dealers are even trying to block Tesla from using storefronts to sell rather than dealership buildings. Can't have cars being sold through stores like Walmart or CVS, can we.

    Can't be consumer friendly can we?

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 14,803

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    Well, maybe because you're spending $30-$40 thousand instead of $3-$4 hundred.

    Not only that but Wally World is not adding mop and glow, fabric protection and pin stripping on that camera and charging you a fee to buy there (doc fee).

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mako1amako1a VirginiaPosts: 1,855

    Imid, that is perfect> Then why cant they be sued for charging a different price on a car? Or is that putting to much logic into the argument.
    That's pretty much a summation of the root problem people have with car dealers.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • berriberri Posts: 9,462

    You guys may be forgetting all the state legal protections the car dealer's get through their dealer's association political campaign contributions.

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,269

    I posted this on the Buick Encore forum but I thought I'd share it on this thread as well.

    • The Encore appears small in pictures but the interior is very comfortable for four adults. At 6 feet tall and 248 pounds, I have no problem fitting in the driver's and front passenger's seat. I thought I would be compromised in the back seat but there is plenty of head, leg and knee room.

    • The sunroof is small and feels like a hole in the roof. A panoramic moon roof would be more desirable.

    • I drove the Encore under different road conditions. On the highway, it was silky smooth and quiet, maintaining speeds of 65 mph without the buzzing I would have expected in a 4-cylinder engine. In city driving the Encore actually felt very quick because of its low end torque orientation. At times it felt like a spritely sports sedan rather than a SUV.

    • On roads with portholes and imperfections you could feel the jolts and hear the thumps. Compared to my LaCrosse it felt harsh and unrefined. Blame that on its short wheel base of 100 inches and 18-inch tires

    • Front visibility is quite good but not so for rear visibility. This weakness is mitigated somewhat by the back-up camera. But without directional and distance grid lines the camera is not as not as effective as it should. A major demerit for GM.

    • We had a major concern whether the tiny 1.3 liter 138 hp engine could climb steep hills without petering out but the Encore handled those hills (with the AC on full blast to boot) with aplomb.

    • Two areas of concern--the steering felt soft and the breaks a little mushy. I did not like the feel of either. They were just too soft for me but my wife thinks they are just right. Since she is the primary driver I have no quarrel with her assessment.

    • The gas mileage is very good. After a week's worth of driving (not sure how many miles) the tank is still 1/3 full.

    • The technology on this baby Buick is amazing---back-up camera, blind side detection, front and rear parking sensors and Intellilink. The Intellilink looks a little intimidating but all major functions can be activated by voice control. In terms of the weather and traffic navigation, we were not sure whether the signal came from Sirius/XM or from GM's Intellilink. (Does anybody know?)

    • One final comment. While the Encore is pricey, its interior refinement is very upscale (especially the saddle leather) and it addresses very well the interests of one of its target demographic, the empty nester.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,228

    Richard....I've always liked F150s. Last pickup I bought was a good long while ago, and was a Toyota Tacoma. Drove in a friend's F150 at the time, and immidieately knew I should have bought the Ford instead.

    There's a reason that it's been one of the top selling vehicles, across the board, for such a very long time. Ford puts a lot of engineering and thought into the F150s, and it shows. The fact that you can get a nice one for $8K off....pretty compelling!

    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683

    @abacomike, apparently the RH in places like Phoenix has gone up over the last several decades due to all the grass getting watered in the 'burbs and on those golf courses. My nose still takes a week to acclimate out there. Boise was pretty ideal for a convertible, only had a few weeks out of the year where the temps would hang around 105°F.

    Got home to the UP yesterday afternoon; first dry day in a week the neighbors said. Got the grass mowed and even after that exercise, I had to go in and turn on the furnace since the house was 63°. Drizzle and fog right now.

    So, Miata's have strong ACs, right?

    @bwia, re the backup camera, my newer used van has lots more bells and whistles than our old one, but I'd love to at least have rear parking sensors. That feature saved me in a rental Buick in Chicago one year when I almost backed into a pole.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 22,861

    @stever said:
    bwia, re the backup camera, my newer used van has lots more bells and whistles than our old one, but I'd love to at least have rear parking sensors. That feature saved me in a rental Buick in Chicago one year when I almost backed into a pole.

    I see there are aftermarket sensors available.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,081

    @snakeweasel said:
    Great but you misnamed it, it should be "The forum about buying and selling cars where we talk about everything buy buying and selling cars."

    But the upside is that when someone does buy or sell something, including cars, you guys do share it here. The rest of the conversation just keeps the discussion fresh until one of you parts with some $$.

    On another note, this past weekend was my S.O.'s 30-year high school reunion - mine's next year, same school. Walking in, my first thought was, "where are my school mates and what are all of these old people doing here?" Thank goodness for name tags!!

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  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited June 2014

    @imidazol97 said:
    I see there are aftermarket sensors available.

    Good idea; just not sure how long we're keeping this ride. I have put some footman loops tie-downs in the back. Lots of miles on it to be planning on driving it too many years though. Right now it's mostly a moving van. :)

    We rejected the house counter today and are back in the hunt.

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,269
    edited June 2014

    @Kirstie_H said:
    On another note, this past weekend was my S.O.'s 30-year high school reunion - mine's next year, same school. Walking in, my first thought was, "where are my school mates and what are all of these old people doing here?" Thank goodness for name tags!!

    Kirstie, at this rate you will be catching up with me soon. As the old TV commercial once said, everything gets better with time. Or was it "You're not getting older, you're getting better." Regardless, you can't go wrong with either.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,375
    edited June 2014

    My take on high school reunions is that if I wanted to be your friend, I wouldn't have waited 30 years to contact you. :)

    HAGGLING -- sure, you can haggle on a fridge I guess, but it wouldn't be this elaborate ritual---this...this....DRAMA....that the dealers have choreographed as elaborately as a community theater's version of The Pirates of Penzance.

    Oh, better far to live and die
    Under the brave black flag I fly,
    Than play a sanctimonious part,
    With a pirate head and a pirate heart.
    Away to the cheating world go you,
    Where pirates all are well to do ;
    But I'll be true to the song I sing,
    And live and die a Pirate King.
    For I am a Pirate King.
    You are !
    Hurrah for our Pirate King !
    And it is, it is a glorious thing
    To be a Pirate King.

    this is not to say at all that all dealers are pirates, but they seem to LOVE to play that part regardless....._"Aye, you're a pretty one you are! Come ye to my F&I pirate's liar! "
    _

    Now that the internet has been gunning for pirates, it's getting harder to play the role. Dealers need a new identity. Perhaps that's what the Tesla flap is really all about?

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,222

    C'mon Shifty, you know you enjoy your time in "The Box"! :)

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,228
    edited June 2014

    Around these parts, there is an appliance/TV store that you can "haggle". It's HH Gregg. Not sure how far they reach, though.

    I've never paid their "asking" price on anything....not even their sale tags.

    Even Best Buy has been matching price with on line retailers recently.

    I research the online shopping sites, and base my "Big Screen TV" offer based on those prices.

    I view buying a car the same way. I'll research the car. Look at stock levels. Find different ads where the same/similar car is for sale....oh...say within a 250 radius. Look at online pricing venues (Edmunds, TrueCar, KBB, NADA, etc). Then, I'll formulate my "one time" offer, including tax, tags, but never doc fees.

    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,375

    So, Mr. Graphicguy, what would it take for you to leave with this refrigerator today? What monthly payment were you thinking of? Do you have another refrigerator to trade in?

    Oh, you want to offer how much? Wait here, and I'll talk to the refrigerator manager.

    While you're waiting, why not take a look at our Deluxe Ice-o-Matic Arctic Dominator? It has more features than you were looking for--you can freeze an entire cow in there--but we are having a special on this model--it's the last one (frankly I have a very interested party who is supposed to come by today, so if you want it....).

    I spoke to the manager, and tell you what---if you would sign up for the Racing Kitchen Striping Kit, and the titanium ice trays, and our 40 year extended warranty, we may be able to meet your price. Of course, you'll have to use our financing to get that. We use the First National Superior Bank and Aluminum Siding Company....just down the street....

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,222

    Coming soon to Home Depot!

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 9,403

    Was at the dealer this morning for routine service on the Regal Turbo. No issues discovered although they tried to convince me to spend $92 for them to install a new air filter. No thanks, the neighborhood parts store has them for $17. I waited in the showroom for the car and looked around of course. They had a black Silverado "Foose" edition which I can't say I liked - a big black cow-catcher hoop on the front (bumper protector? ), big wheels that weren't too bad I guess, and a coal-mine black interior with perforated leather seats. The thing is huge of course. Didn't see a price sticker on it.

    Also a new CTS there, black/black also, 2.0 Turbo, AWD, no sunroof. I sat in it and liked it although the black interior was pretty dingy and I would never buy it in that color. Don't know if I'd order one of these with that engine either. They also had a black (what is it with this outfit and black vehicles?) Impala LTZ there, 20" wheels, V6, and nice saddle leather seats although it was mostly black inside otherwise. Big car though, maybe too big for me. Also a Camaro V6 convertible, red with black interior again, can't see black interiors in a convertible though, too hot in the sun. To complete the black equation they had a black Sonic LTZ 4-door with black interior as well, nothing special. Oh, and a red Equinox with a black interior. They apparently order most in-stock vehicles with black interiors because they think they are easier to sell. I dunno about that.

    While I was sitting there an older gent came in driving a Buick Lucerne, not sure of the year, and started to deal on a new Verano, The old fellow had done lots of online research, knew exactly what he wanted, and made them work to find the car in the color he wanted - Mocha Bronze with Cashmere leather, no black interior for him! They went back and forth a few tines but in short order they shook hands on the deal. They are doing "employee pricing" here right now and that seemed to be the clincher for him. I was surprised by how quick it all went.

    Yesterday I gave the Regal a hand wash and detail, so I thought I'd post a pic of it from when I got home from the dealer. This was midday so the sun was directly overhead, sorry about the harshness.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,228

    @Mr_Shiftright said:
    So, Mr. Graphicguy, what would it take for you to leave with this refrigerator today? What monthly payment were you thinking of? Do you have another refrigerator to trade in?

    Oh, you want to offer how much? Wait here, and I'll talk to the refrigerator manager.

    While you're waiting, why not take a look at our Deluxe Ice-o-Matic Arctic Dominator? It has more features than you were looking for--you can freeze an entire cow in there--but we are having a special on this model--it's the last one (frankly I have a very interested party who is supposed to come by today, so if you want it....).

    I spoke to the manager, and tell you what---if you would sign up for the Racing Kitchen Striping Kit, and the titanium ice trays, and our 40 year extended warranty, we may be able to meet your price. Of course, you'll have to use our financing to get that. We use the First National Superior Bank and Aluminum Siding Company....just down the street....

    :)

    Great analogy, Shifty!

    Point made, although they do get into the "extended warranty" game on TVs and appliances.

    But, you're right about dealerships today. They seem to like playing a little "hide and seeK" on whatever the final price is going to be on the car. Doc fees, tire warranty, maintenance plans, lug nut locks, etc, etc, etc.

    Every time I hear "I have to charge the doc fee. It's a law." For years I've been asking them to show me the law they're referencing. Have yet to have one find it for me.

    What you agree to at the sales person's desk ordinarily doesn't even remotely resemble what you are actually paying for the car once you get through all the "add ons", F&I, doc feel, etc. Which again, is why I make one offer only, and it's all inclusive. I know exactly what I'm paying before I leave the sales person's desk....including tax, down to the penny.

    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 63,375

    "Point made, although they do get into the "extended warranty" game on TVs and appliances."

    That's very true. The jargon I've heard in appliance and electronics stores among salespeople vying to add extended warranties, is: "Hey, did you get any cheese on that deal?"

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