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Comments
Steve, Host
When you get to the off-road comparison, the G kills the Cayenne. Sure you have to pull the running boards off and fit respectable tires to both but, the G is a real packhorse, bred for the most difficult terrain in the world. Like the heady acceleration, how many people will use either truck to its limits, on or off-road? I have led a couple of G Wagen outings in Moab. The capabilities of the truck scare even owners who thought they new how far the truck would take them. I even coached a G500, on stock 18" rubber, up the 4+(toughest) rated Moab Rim trail. I suspect that with the lockers and adjustable susp., the Cayenne could be coached through as well. For that matter a $25k Jeep Rubicon would tackle the same task, albiet, not nearly as quickly or in as much luxury.
I think the Cayenne will be class leader, price be damned. I personally wouldn't buy it to off-road with it. It does offer impressive towing capabilities too. It is a powerful, solid awd road runner. The G is a worker, solid and unwavering, the top pick if you actually ply the trails. The new V8 versions are impressive hot rods as well. So it is a soap box vs a soap bar. Two machines with on and off road capabilites rarely explored.
I also think that the ML500 is a great buy. It rides much better than the X5 and isn't as garishly styled as the GX470.
I do like the GX470 though. It should prove to be typical Toyota, ultra reliable, and the Lexus dealer experience can not be beat, not by BMW, M-B or Porsche.
The X5 is fun but not capable enough as a truck, if that is important to you. I have a hard time with it being smaller than a 5-series wagon and not having a set of low range gears. I have had a couple as loaners from BMW and did not care for the ride. My son got carsick. It does GO however, I manged to get a speeding ticket in one.
Quite smart from Porsche in fact. They worked out the chassis for VW, and while they were at it they saw fit to afford an SUV. The only in-house 100% funded project by Porsche was the Cayenne engine. VW builds the Cayenne for them. Obviously they don't have to worry about build quality, which is another plus
The line between truck and tall wagon is nothing more than a blur to me anymore. Just figure out what your expectations are for the vehicle.
I have a couple of MB G-wagens. I bought a 2002 G500 for my wife to drive since I had always had excellent luck with my G's. I may be looking to trade the G500 for a Cayenne. The reason being is, the G500 is all truck. I use my G320 for serious off-roading. She just needs something to haul stuff that has 4wd for winter. The Cayenne will undoubtably be a better road car and still be able to pull the boat, the "other Porsche" and do some off-roading.
Getting into a truely rugged "truck" is not really necessary for 99% of people. What I am getting at is my G500 is serious overkill for the way it is used. I can back down slightly to the Cayenne and still meet my needs. Then, try to define what a real truck is anymore.
I think the VW will be a great value and supremely capable. I will be looking to the Porsche for a couple of reasons, first, I can, and second, I am a Porsche club member and want another V8 Porsche in the stable, just for kicks.
--'rocco
Any owners out there already purchased a Porsche Cayenne? If so, what is your experience with this SUV?
regards
j.silva
It's trying to be too many things at once if you ask me.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
They have class leading cargo capacity, comfortable seating for 5, and the speed thing. If it is just a matter of fitting the right tires for your priorities, what is the problem? Living in the snow belt, I do that anyway.
One pitfall regarding tires though is a very limited selection of suitable choices in either 18,19 or 20" wheels. There are no good off road tires in an 18" diameter yet. Is it really an issue anyway? A fair set of tires will take a Cayenne owner further than he is willing to go anyway.
I don't think SUVs as a class are as versatile as they're made out to be. The difference is for the cost of this one you could buy two cars, one with excellent on road performance and another to go banging thru the brush.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I do agree with you though. You could get a new Jeep Rubicon for $25k and a used Boxster for $30-35k to do just as you suggest. I am personally out of garage space, multipurpose vehicles are appealling.
Who needs all that junk anyway? I wonder what the Range Rover would cost with a stick shift, manual A/C, and a CD player? Cancel all the other luxury amenities and sell it for $20K less, I say! I LIKE wind-down windows! You can open them without the key in the ignition!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
[img]http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/images/03fx45_3.jp- g[/img]
When it happens all the poseurs who never go off-road are going to want it, along with 'roo bars and stone guards they never need either <?;^)
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I've saw the Cayenne-S on Sunday, but without a test drive its hard to draw any conclusions. Very distinctive, you won't mistaken it for anything else (except for the Touareg at a quick glance).
But, I'm confused why anyone would take a $90K car through the mud and dirt, but I'm a city guy, so what do I know?
I guess if you can't make the payments on a Cayenne, than the Touareg could be a good alternative with the V8. The specs and options run very parallel to the Cayenne. Did I misread the reports the V6 Touareg does 0-60 in 9.9sec? Very Slow. I guess the V-8 is the only way to go, if you had to.
What about the Hummer H1, then ? $100k made for dirt
Like I said, what do I know, I'm a city guy who always had two cars, my city/weekday car and a weekend car that usually never came out in the rain. Us NYC car enthusiasts are weird!
First Drive: 2003 Porsche Cayenne
Steve, Host
But 3,500 kilograms, not pounds (7716 pounds to be more precise). Ok, I guess you did use the "#" sign <g>.
fwiw, we got it right in the vehicle info pages. I'll send some Feedback to the editors. Thanks, and good eye!
Steve, Host
Had they said 3500 KG (=7700 #)I could buy it but they said pounds. It may be a small point but if someone was reading it and actually had a need for towing they might dismiss the vehicle as the competition all tows more (than 3500 pounds).
Thanks,
Bill
I test drove the Cayenne S March 15 and with freeway construction/congestion and local traffic, never had a chance to experience its acceleration or handling. I found the ride to be less harsh compared to an X5, but less cushy to a GX470. The gas pedal response was sensitive, but not as jerky-jackrabbit moving away from a dead stop. Steering had more feel than GX470 and also not as heavy feeling as X5. The DVD navigation wasn't working (no disk in the unit), so I can't compare it to the navigation in my Lexus or Odyssey, which are both excellent. It must be better than the The X5 also requires extra strength to open the doors than the Cayenne or GX470. The salesman said the Cayenne S is not currently available with the Air Suspension option, not even to special order. That is a an issue for me. And the local dealer's allotment of Turbos are sold out into July. And what a price premium ! although I would be looking at a highly optioned S, the difference is perhaps only $20K. In May, the Touareg will go on sale so model availability with the options I seek will be a factor on the V8 model.
As far as LOOKS, I think the X5 is beautiful, the Touareg is attractive, and the Cayenne is much better looking in person than via pictures.
Reliability is a concern. A first year model for any Make is laden with some teething problem risk. BMW's X5 has been a problem vehicle from the start and still remains with deficiencies that BMW is slow to address. Between the VW store and the Porsche store, which one will support its product better? Hard to tell. I seriously considered buying a Boxster S, but in the end (as I don't have the time/patience to put up with unplanned trips to the dealer) I bought a Lexus SC430. I certainly doesn't handle as well as the Boxster, but it has had minimal problems and Superb Lexus service, the same with my wife's LS400. I followed discussion boards for both the X5 and Boxster to see what owners were dealing with on problems and deficiencies. If reliability issues crop up on discussion boards like this for the Cayenne, then maybe the GX470 gets the nod. The Acura MDX and Honda Pilot are good, reliable vehicles, but not for towing stuff. For now, I'm going to wait to see the Touareg...while fighting the impulse to special order a Cayenne. I have a second home at Lake Tahoe, CA where the Cayenne would be great.
No I haven't driven the FX45 yet so I can't compare it to the others I have driven, but it also can only tow 3500#. Future unknowns: the Lexus RX330 will likely have boring driving dynamics and minimal tow capability and the Cadillac SRX will scoot, but not likely be fun in the handling department and its towing ability is unknown. Also, I have never owned a GM product and have only been impressed by one of their models: the EV-1 electric car. Current Vehicles Brands: Lexus, Toyota, Subaru, Honda, FORD. Have had BMW, Audi also.
Looks like it's correctly reported as 350 watts in the Road Test and in the Editor Review though. Sure you saw the error in the Road Test, Sc430pilot? (maybe the eds are reading the discussion and fixing stuff on the fly <g>).
I notice that the towing "pounds" error has been fixed already.
Thanks for reading the reviews, and thanks for writing your own impressions for everyone!
Steve, Host
Altogether, very very nice. As for me, I'll order the FX45, knowing that it's a different class of car and save $50k in the process....
The cayenne also offers serious offroad capabilities wrapped together with its onroad performance.
I think the cayenne offers serious competition to the X5, if not actually being better.
Two things I noticed. From the side/rear it looks a lot like a RX300. It also had "Cayenne" spelled out in huge white letters across the back right in the center under the window. I could read it in my rearview mirror heading away at 60 MPH. It looked pretty cheesey. I am surprised I couldn't read the engine size listed next to it :-). Not that I will ever get one, but I would have that lettering removed, or at least painted a muted color if I did.
More importantly, where are the jump start terminals/access points located? In my old car, there were contacts under the hood specifically for jump starting even though the actual battery was under the rear seat.
Any insights?
Thanks.
I looked at BMW X5s a while back but they LOOK large and they don't have a flat rear floor with the seats folded. I looked at a Cayenne yesterday and fell in love with it, and after reading all I can find on it, I'm ready to spend $90K of my net worth on the Turbo.
Why the Cayenne, since I've never owned or wanted to own a Porsche and have never spent more than $30K on a vehicle? Not necessarily in order of importance, are overall on-road performance; overall utility, since I haul around a lot of expensive camera gear and camping equipment; and off-road capability including variable ride height, something I've wanted for my Grandokee since I've owned it. Will I take it off pavement? Absolutely. Will it get scratched? Yes. Are replacement-tire choices broad? No. (I'll end up probably with Toyo Proxes STs [my current Grandokee tire in 275/60-17 and which I like very much] in 265/50R20 or 295/40R20, whichever I can get under the fenders. Both of these are about 1-1/2 inches larger diameter which will help ground clearance slightly.)
It has 2 batteries, one under the hood and one within the would-be spare-tire well and which also contains the Bose electronics, all according to the salesperson. It comes with NO spare tire, certainly something I'll remedy before taking it off pavement.
I regret that most Cayennes will be driven by soccer moms, it weighs 5200 pounds, it gets not-high fuel mileage, it requires premium fuel, cloth seats aren't available, spread across the rear deck is the tacky-looking name, and it costs so much. I'll buy it anyway, with the off-road and towing packages and NO hole in its roof, and I'll love its excellent road performance AND off-pavement prowess.
Perhaps with a little more experience on message boards you will come to see that this a pretty friendly, helpful and knowledgable group here. Having just arrived it may be difficult to appreciate the context of individual postings.
tidester, host
Good luck with the purchase. What was the cost? MSRP or above? Did you have to go through a reseller or directly from a dealer? I read that all the first run models were purchased and being resold at a premium? How long do you have to wait?
'Just' regular retail. I added the towing ($590) and off-road ($2850) packages, roofrack bars ($450), fire extinguisher ($80), thermally insulated glass ($1080; I'm in very-hot Phoenix), and compass ($80). All that plus destination charge equals $94,795. The 'Sport' seats, same as in the $100K+ sportscars, were a no-cost option that I added.
Did you have to go through a reseller or directly from a dealer?
I used the only dealer in the Phoenix area, North Scottsdale Porsche.
I read that all the first run models were purchased and being resold at a premium?
Not mine. They never mentioned any additional markup on any price.
How long do you have to wait?
The order was accepted by the factory today. It'll be built in July and delivered in August.
It'll be silver metallic with lite- and dark-gray interior with NO wood. The test drive in an 'S' model was really fun today. It feels liter than my 4300-pound '99 Grandokee. It's VERY responsive to inputs and seemed to ride not harshly, even with the steel-spring system.
As I mentioned earlier, I ordered the Cayenne because it had not just the best but an excellent combination of performance and utility. But nothing's perfect, right? So I've started shopping for replacement tires and wheels. I think I've settled on a new ROH wheel called the 'Drift R' in 18x9, with either Toyo Proxes STs or Yokohama AVS S/Ts. Whichever I choose, they'll be a bit taller (and wider) than any of the OE tires, all of which are a bit wimpy, IMO.
I KNOW there are reasonable people on this forum who will be very helpful. But my earlier statement still stands...that there seem to be a lot of folk who are very opinionated but not well informed. I hope I don't run into many.
tidester, host
The Cayenne feels substantially bigger than the ML, X5 and FX. Also dependable in the snow, although limited experience in late March. Sport X5s and MLs tires had trouble with wet grass, not to mention snow.
Cayenne handles very well but heavy. Cruises really, really well. 6 speed tranny is outstanding. Front brakes are a bit grabby at low speeds. Get the power steering enhancement option.
Would have preferred a higher price with ALL the amenities included vs. the maddening list of options of which some should be standard.
Nav is very reliable, but should be DVD. Watch out for the mute button on the steering wheel, you are likely to accidentally depress when backing up and then left wondering why your stereo does not work.
The Cayenne's looks are much better in person than in photos. Cayenne could use bigger wheels though considering the huge wheel wells. Currently turns lots of heads and I am approached in parking lots by the curious. Engine sounds great and Cayenne definitely has more testosterone than the ML/X models.
Was about to buy the new Range Rover after and comparison with the MB G500 and I am very glad our dealer had a CayenneS available. Previous car was BMW M5 and the transition has not been that tough. Not to say the Cayenne is ready to compete with the M5, but I am quite satisfied with the sporty demeanor of Cayenne.