Porsche Cayenne

mudman2

I spent this morning trying to reproduce this phenom since so many have commented on it.

Firstly let me state I do not suffer from it. I can however, predictably induce it by altering my driving technique.

Secondly, it never occurs when driving in manual mode nor could I induce it.

Porsche states that the transmission does not change down on entry to a corner, here lies the key.

If you approach a corner OR slow to a "rolling" stop and then try to accelerate, there is a good chance the transmission is in 5, 4 or 3 while the revs are down between 500 - 1000.

In this revrange/gearrange torque is mismatched and it seems to take some milliseconds for the computer to figure it needs to change down. I wonder if they have stop signs in Germany !

Now if you had come to a complete stop or very close to it, 2nd would have been selected and the problem does not occur.

After many tries, I concluded that the problem lies here, a transmission mode modification is needed (software) to prevent this especially now that a more mainstream driving population are using the Cayenne and a more subdued driving technique is normal (for a Porsche).

I do not believe it has anything to do with engine pick up or power availability.

Until they fix it, I suggest learning the circumstances when this is likely to occur and tip down to 2nd to prevent it.

I use manual about 75% of the time, the S zooms !!!

Anyone else carried out any research ?

IMHO, Hope this helps.

highender

good for you !!!

hope my dealer could do something like that...

have fun .....

highender

Thanks for your research and insight in the throttle problem, I have not noticed it in my car. What you say sounds like the most plausible answer. The power in the S is more than enough to move this car. But like a lot of automatics, the trans sometimes searches for the right gear, and it cannot read your mind. It relies on input, then reacts to it. This takes time.
Jeffrey: I can think of a lot of excellent cars with problems/niggles/bad engineering /bad design. In fact, I cannot think of 1 car that has none !!! The Enzo is the king of the hill sports/race car, but try driving it from the street into a 3 or 5 inch slanting driveway; you will damage the $20,000 paint job. Plus, when it breaks down on the freeway at 30,000 miles, people in Accords and Tauruses would drive by laughing. My Jag XJ-12 had burlwood with Peruvian boxwood inlays, reading lights that fold out, 2 picnic tables, 3 lambskin carpets, 300+ hp. : but it died on me when under warranty. The dealership could not figure it out, so they flew in an engine project engineer from the east coast to fix the problem. He changed alot of parts, but still could not start it. Guess what ? It turns out the car has 6 grounds in the starting system. One was loose, they connected it and got it started. People have different tastes, needs, preferences, etc, so there will always be , IMHO, some whiners yelping about a great product

whubsmobile

After taking two different Cayennes for test drives I decided not to purchase the car owing to the hesitation described in message #245. I have continued to monitor this site to see if anyone else encountered similar problems. When I first experienced the hesitation, pulling away after being stopped at a light and doing nothing extraordinary with the throttle, the salesman suggested that the Cayenne computer was simply learning my style of driving. About ten hesitant starts later (all after a complete stop) this explanation held little water. After encountering exactly the same lack of response to the throttle on the second Cayenne, and after my son-in-law found the same problem during the same test drive, I concluded that, for me, at least, this flaw was fatal. Much as I liked the car - and I did - it seems that the very least a driver requires is that a vehicle move forward when requested to do so, not some time afterward at the vehicle's own choosing. I acknowledge that bringing attention to this situation may be seen by some as mere "yelping", but I doubt that Porsche will categorize it as such. More likely the manufacturer is ironing out the problem. The trouble is, if we don't acknowledge the problem, how will we know when the problem's been fixed?

mudman2

if you are the type of driver who is afraid of putting your foot on the peddle to pull away a Porsche is not what you want.

You original post is what prompted me to run tests, and no matter what I did, 2nd is ALWAYS selected below about 2 mph, I have now also tested another S so I doubt the truthfullness of your post.

No one on any board, I have read, has reported this happening from a standstill, bad reading or poor imagination here I think.

I look forward to your response.

svinaik

On the contrary, Cayenne moves rather too well.

One suggestion is that next time your drive Cayenne, just check if the transmission is in D or M mode. Sometimes, without realizing, one may move the transmission to M(Tiptronics on the steering wheel) while the vehicle is moving in very slow speed and than you press on the accelerator, you may rev up the engine a lot but you will not get any traction if you do not move the gears forward manually.

I just felt like writing this because I am very surprised that anyone has found Cayenne acceleration to be any less than great.!!!! Please check it out again. I am thrilled with Cayenne and really feel that money has been well spend.

highender

I meant "yelping" about the design(exterior) and weight of Cayenne, not the throttle problem. If any car has a serious/safety/engine flaw, then it is in the best interest of everyone to air it out.
I have driven the turbo for 3 months now. My initial peddle pressure was too hard, causing the car to lunge forward. This was not comfortable for my family. Now I am more used to the car/vice versa, so it is better. Again, like sviniak, I have not, repeat not, experienced any throttle problems at all. There are a lot of small complaints, but they are really small, stuff that you can say about almost any other car.
 Also, I was driving a Mercedes 1991 500 SEC, and I stepped on the throttle lightly, and the car did not move. Then I applied firm pressure, and the car shot out immediately. Perhaps you are doing what mudman2 is suggesting; not applying enough pressure to get gas into the engine.

svinaik

I did not have the "Optional temporary spare tire" on my Cayenne but want to buy one. I checked with my dealer and was surprised that it would cost $ 499 + which as an option from factory, it is only $ 170 and there is no dealer installation required. Is my dealer goofing ...

Should the spare be available for Touareg at a reasonable price, should I buy it. 18" wheel on both , Cayenne & Touareg are the same dimensions.. so Spare should be same on both vehicles too.. Please advise.

Also, are other Cayenne owner interested in making noises about not getting the phone option in the U.S. In Europe, PCM units have the phone icons and the GSM phones are available as an option but not in the US. After having an integrated phone in my E320, I find it a very useful option from safety perspective. It is much better than just having hands free talking because you still have to dial manually in the hands free after market mode but integrated one give you the option of dialling using the steering wheel controls. Any body else interested in making noises to Porsche NA or any advise on getting the phones from Europe.. I have no idea if it is prewired for the phones or not..

mudman2

I would love to get the integrated phone, but I was told that the frequency of GSM in the US is not the world standard frequency therefore the antenna's etc will not work.

mudman2

check out

www.fabspeed.com

click on Cayenne Turbo and S and watch and listen to the videos

Its great !!!

svinaik

I think that Porsche's explanation does not hold much substance. I recently fitted my E320 with the GSM kit from Europe (Nokia phone with multi band frequency reception)and it works fine even though MB does not offer the GSM phones here and the frequency should not matter as long as we have the multi frequency phone. Antennas do not discriminate between frequencies but the phones do.

I will investigate the possibilities and let you folks know if I find anything. I would love to have the integrated phone and it will be a shame if Porsche does not come forward and help on this. At this level($ 50K +++), companies should not have excuses rather they should have solutions.

highender

I would love to have hands free phone system, and a little disappointed that Porsche does not have it. Also, I would love to get a spare. I saw the inflatable spare by Veredestein yesterday inside the Toureg. The car looks a lot like the Cayenne, and so it should fit. Go to VW dealer and ask for a discount.

mudman2

MB put external antenna on the E320, this allows them to tune it for each country

svinaik

Folks,

I spoke with Porsche and gave them my heart's content on the non availability of the integrated phones. If you folks and all those who want to get the integrated phone please make a little effort in calling the 1-800-porsche and let them know that we do want the phone. May be they will listen.

mudman2

allows connection to many different cell systems.

PCNA wake up

rerenov8r

I don't know if this purely a local occurance but the Porsche store nearest me has a VERY large inventory of Cayenne -- both normally aspirated & twin turbo.

Altogether they have 28. I have not really been tracking this a long time, but that strikes me as bit too many. Perhaps the delivery schedule is slightly out of whack...

I've seen a few Cayenne at the local "gently used high end" used car boutique -- this actually surprises me less, as this lot ALWAYS has a ton of exotics that are very "fresh" -- I suspect they have a great reputation among the finance companies as a willing consumer of repo/lease walk aways...

Haven't yet had a chance to really take a Cayenne for a could romp but thinking about it...

mudman2

TT's are VERY rare so that might explain it, lots of reports of the new shipload

rbaron

If your count of 28 is from the dealer's website as opposed to a visual count you may be off by quite a bit. The web sites seem to overstae inventory, list cars specially ordered or already delivered, etc.

rerenov8r

My lab and I walk the "big loop" on Sundays. They are all on the lot, some seem to have been there quite a while...

rkuehn

I keep asking this question but no one seems to bite, so maybe its a dumb question...

If the Cayenne looked alot more like the FX45 and skipped the off-road kit to save weight, would 1) the vehicle be as controversial in general as it seems, and 2) the supposedly slow sales still be the case?

(Apparently the V6 is a go, which was only to have happened if early results failed to meet expectations.)

svinaik

If Cayenne had the FX looks and no off road .. than it will be FX and not Cayenne.

I bought Cayenne after scanning the available options (including Infinit) and was a clear choice for me. Lot of controversy is around "Porsche" building the SUV and I do not know how many people have judged the looks themselves to form opinion one way or the other. To our eyes, Cayenne looks exactly what a Porsche SUV could have looked like.(Timeless design)

Cayenne Sales are not that slow as you think. It is all relative i guess. As far as Porsche is concerned, It is the Cayenne which is carrying the burden as the sports car market is soft. Porsche must be thrilled that they had the Cayenne out just at the right time.

Lastly, If Porsche bring out the V6, so much great for the folks who may have been on the fringe line due to the Price on the V8. and knowing Porsche, even V6 will not be bad performer.

harryrogers1

Hi All

Had my Turbo now for 6 weeks and its great. I tow a caravan (trailer for the US) with it and it is the best tow car I have had. Last car was a Lexus RX300SE and before that a Merc Estate E320. No problems so far, still waiting for the mats. I understand no one in Europe has had them yet. Do you have them in the US..

Regards all Cayenne fans.
Harry

mudman2

geordies rule

sbcooke

I noticed that the payload capacity on the cayenne is over 1500lbs. However I passed one yesterday on the jersey turnpike which had 5 people in it and no visible gear in the cargo area that was riding very low in the rear? I thought this was odd. It was a turbo model, does the air suspension compensate for the added weight? I was surprised to see how low slung the car was given the listed specs.

harryrogers1

The ones supplied by Porsche. Maybe different in the US. But a standard fit in Europe. Cept they have a problem.

Harry

harryrogers1

Perhaps they had the height setting to low. ie one above the loading setting. This is lower than the normal setting and with a crowd on board would make it look low.

Harry

rkuehn

I dunno... I guess I expected a "more sporty" product from Porsche. Do we really need the off-road capability and the weight it brings? A lighter, more nimble vehicle might have been an alternative. Carerra 4 has an on-road AWD system, that's what I would have expected for Cayenne. Interesting the Audi version will delete the off-road capabilty to save weight (they'll also add a third row, something I'd never expect on any Porsche... ever...)

And on the styling issue, park an FX, Cayenne and 911 next to each other and pick which one is not a Porsche? Honestly I'd pick the Cayenne. No the FX is not perfect, seems its selling at invoice already. But the lines, wheels, front & rear view, etc. just strike me as what I would have expected from Porsche.

But hey its all just opinion, if it works for you then jump on it.

mudman2

Do you mean it was not level ?

The air suspension is self leveling. I agree, I run at low level all the time on the road, I took my daughter to college for summer session with my wife.

I was loaded to the roof with only 1 back seat operational, I was dead level, I checked, and I was at low level all the time.

mudman2

I got the ones from Porsche and also bought the rubber ones. I was offered the double sided velour from stock.

Try ordering on line from suncoast porsche or clairs

sbcooke

It was riding like an old station wagon loaded down with family and vacation gear...almost down to the wheel wells. I assumed that they probably had the air suspension set to manual and didn't adjust it? I thought it was funny for a car with such high payload capacity to look like that with seemingly normal load.

mudman2

cavalier12

Does anyone know what the purpose of the small bulb on the xenon headlamp assembly that is just below the projector and just above the cornering lamp? Also, 3 salesmen at the porsche dealer could not accurately explain what bi-xenon is. One guy said that it meant the high beam was also xenon. This was proven wrong when he turned them on. Any ideas out there? Thanks

highender

phones: hi sviniak, I'll call them about the phones. I was just wondering, if I were to build a true sports car, I would not have bothered with AC, sunroof, nav, carpet etc. Perhaps Porsche thought that the basic luxuries were enough. I personally think they should have included phone and DVD, but I may be whining.

mats: I got the mats carpeted ones, from dealer, but the Savannah Beige ones get dirty so quick.
 
stocks: the economy is tanking IMO. Dealer stock of almost every car is rising. I should have waited to buy the TT, but we still think it was aorth the money. Now TT is $6000 cheaper at my dealership.

looks: Today we backed out of a friends garage, and a Bronco stopped and waited for us to pass, then caught up to check out the Cay.They loved it. Compared to a Jeep Grand Cherekee, this car is wider and more aggressive from the back, and the front evokes the 911 (which is celebrating its 40 th year. Talk about timeless design. I think if I were the engineer, and had to combine so many goals together with the rep of a Porsche, then I could hardlly have done better.

highender

cornering lights, stability management control, fiberoptic info system, heavyduty air cooled transmission, two separate brake circuits, internal oil sump, individual coils for each spark plug, air suspension, 80% recyclable parts, great performance on and off road. Like what 1 mag said: Porsche is guilty of underselling this car.

jryn

Happened to pass Porsche of Arlington this weekend. In the past, it's struck me as a low volume dealership with limited inventory. But on Sunday, they must have had a dozen or so Cayennes parked end to end around the perimeter of their lot. $1M in inventory, just sitting there, easily.

Explanation 1 - They're not selling as fast as expected, and inventory is piling up.

Explanation 2 - I don't know, what would explanation 2 be?

Anyone have thoughts on how well/poorly the Cayenne is selling in the DC area?

mudman2

New shipments just arrived a lot of pre orders especially TT's being delivered

chile96

When I went to my dealer for service last week, I commented to my salesman on how many of the cayennes were in stock. He said they had about 45 but mentioned that Champion in Florida has over 100! He said they were having a tough time all of the sudden moving them. The turbos which were hard to keep in stock now are collecting dust.

highender

I should have waited. The turbos are going 6000 below MSRP, at least. Still, we love the car. I think the economy is to blame. One guy bought a Boxster with little options for $67,000, and had to wait 5 months back in 2000, but now they are $54,000. Wow. what the economy can do.

nv32

Well, surely the economy does play a big part in that, but I personally think that North Americans are not yet used to the idea that you have to pay extra for a spare, or for power steering ... in 2003 for heaven's sake.

And the spare is, on top of that, uninflated ... to make room for a subwoofer of all things? Why not give us a choice, among what seem to be hundreds of options anyway, of taking an inflated spare or a subwoofer?

And now I have heard that the collapsible spare is to be discontinued, on the S anyway. So our choice is the rear-mounted one --- an unpallitable heavy option that is both expensive, unattractive to some eyes, and a pain in the butt I would imagine to access the cargo area --- or no spare. Well, I asked the salesman, what if I have an unrepairable flat with no spare. Oh, well, the nearest Porsche dealer will come out and tow you to his store, he said.

Well, that presumes that I could even contact the dealer --- they are supposing I guess that I'm not in the mountains of Utah away from civilization AND that I actually have a working cell phone, AND that the dealer is open, or offers 24/7 towing service. Yes, I could buy a full-size spare, at extra cost and loss of cargo space to carry along, but somehow that doesn't seem to be a satisfactory answer either.

Porsche's spare "solution" may fly in Europe where there are so many fewer opportunities to be far away from civilization, but I am somehow not reassured that the Canadian or American car buyer with the ability to spend $56k+ (U.S. dollars) will, upon thinking carefully about it, cotton to this arrangement.

Did I mention also having to pay extra for power steering in this year of our Lord 2003?

I could complain about the CD navigation and other things too, but this is long enough. I love the pepperS, but there are other alternatives with fewer issues.

How many would choose an inflated spare over the sub woofer? Hands please.

highender

Many high end exotics have no spare, and need special care when towing.
Just read on C&D that some people call the "Enzo" Ferrari a go cart. Well, opinions are always as diverse as number of people. We are not talking about Hondas or Impalas or Camrys. On a lot of the serious sports vehicles there are compromises. Some have no roofs, no spare, no power windows, no AC, etc. Like I say, if you can't hack the trade offs, then go get the run of the mill vehicle that suits each of you.

 We love the Cayenne. Went to the GM auto show in motion, and a lot of people wanted to test drive MY car, not the H2 or corvette. Perhaps because it is newer and rarer.

I would choose the Cay any day of the week and twice on Sundays, just like you would do for your vehicle. I chose the subwoofer and may get the powerchip modification. I did not get the BMC filter, but waiting for the K&N.

On most sports cars you can't even do 4 wheel tire rotations, due to different front and rear tires.

On another note, I read in same issue of C&D that the new MB SLR sports car will have a re-tuned engine from the 5.4 L AMG V8 (of S55 fame) putting out about 600 hp

mudman2

Sorry

highender

The fx45 looks sleek and shocking to some people, but does not have any styling cues from Porsche. The Cay front end has all the 911 details, headlights, etc. I thought it was rather obvious. The rear wheel wells were made wider, so the car has a wider, more aggresive stance, compared to the X5 or Jeep Grand Cherokee. By the way, jeepGC started this segment of the auto industry many years ago, a small, peppy, capable 4x4, just right for in town errands or off-road jaunts.

The Porsche cars and styling have been written about in many books. Most mention the TIMELESS style of the 911. Cay just has 911 front end, but perhaps only time will tell if more than one book is written about Cay. There is a big, comprehensive Cayenne book, and a smaller book put out by the factory. Porsche rallies are well attended,and individual fans keep the cars well, so that over two thirds of every Porsche EVER built are STILL running.
 
The fx series is nice, and its fans are devoted. Perhaps you guys should get together and start a fan club. It may increase your enjoyment (on rallies) and the resale value.

highender

I'll be the diplomat for a while. Again, read the recent Car&Driver Sept 2003 issue, pp32, where Mercedes is putting in the "race car style dry sump lubrication system", unlike other AMG motors, into its new supercar, the SLR. The SLR will go comfortably above 200 mph. The Cayenne HAS this race car dry sump lubrication system in all the Cayennes. Basically, an oil reservoir is located inside the engine to save space , reduce weight, and to ensure delivery of oil precisely where its needed during extreme driving conditions, be it 149 mph or 5 mph on a 45 deg slope. This set up also helps cool the engine. No outside sump to pool oil and deprive the engine of lubrication at high speed. In addition, the pistons are cooled by a dedicated oil spray to guarantee lubrication. The 4 valves per cylinder are controlled by dual springs, not single springs, to ensure optimum intake and reliability. The cost of each engine is around $25,000 to $31,000 not including trans or car. Like I said before, it is a de-tuned racing engine.
   It gets 18 mpg on freeway ( 60mph) Wow. because it has another innovative tech advance: variable camshaft. Too bad it weighs a little too much for good city MPG, but it is better than the H2 mpg.

highender

Cay also has the new aluminum alloy designed specifically for competition use, not your regular alloys used for engines.

My toyota previa had a timing chain (single) which the dealer said would last the life of the car. We had 190,000 miles on this 4 cylinder car. Now the Cayenne I'm glad to say, also has a timing chain, instead of timing belt which has to be replaced or risk engine failure. The good thing is that it is a DUAL (2, double !) timing chain, so it may be even more sturdy.

It also has dual circuit brake system, so you will never lose control. Just minor details,really.
The engine is mounted lower than it looks on the outside, to improve handling.

On the topic of power steering, mudman2 is right. On pp 44 of the brochure(not manual) it says both come with it standard. Come on, this is a PORSCHE, they accept nothing less than Porsche like control: precise and accurate. It has variable steering ratios and special valve settings. It is POWER ASSISTED, more assistance in parking lot, none at 150 mph.

highender

I went to the car review section of Edmunds to check out the fx35/45 reviews by the owners. Edmund's review also says that the car looks like they dropped a sports top on a suv bottom. The looks are polarizing(to people in general)
Some complaints about fx45/35 including some from other mags:
1- not enough cargo space
2-small glove compartment
3-stiff ride and poor ride(a lot of complaints)
4-no air suspension
5-limited rear view
6-some instrument controls do not light up at night(on the steering wheel)
7-nav system works only if car is stopped? I doubt this, my nav systems all work while the car is running, but I let my passenger do the clicking through the menu. Is it true ?
8-no true off-road ability
9-seats 4 people

Remember, the car is a very good cross-over vehicle, they all agree on this and the sports part. One guy laments it cannot catch the Cay turbo.Cayenne is not a crossover vehicle, and does not look like a station wagon or Pacifica.

snoozdoc

Its been a pleasure browsing all the posts on this board. I've gained a lot of useful information by reading the posts, and I suppose that that is the ultimate purpose of the discussions. Like many others, I have been torn between the pros and cons of the FX45 versus the Cayenne Turbo. You have ALL made valid points about each. Clearly, many of the Cayenne buyers would have purchased the TT irregardless of many of its options because it is so much fun to drive. I drove one recently, and my smile muscles hurt. No vehicle has ever done that to me, including a F. Mondial that didn't make my SMILE muscles ache, but made my `reaching into my wallet muscles' ache. I currently own a 99 Land cruiser which had performed flawlessly throughout. I just don't need anything this large anymore. At least I dont think so. Held great value though, and even now, CARMAX is even offering about 50% of what the sticker was. Which, brings me to my next point...depreciation. I really really liked the FX. Dollar for dollar, it delivers what it promises. GREAT features...all in one option package. And, an awesome look...ok, at least for now. But, what happens in 2 years, when I want to sell it and get a TT that has been upgraded and debugged..maybe with working phone and better DVD (yes, DVD) Navigation system. I'm afraid that the eye appeal it has at this moment may not be there in a couple of years...uunfortunately. Now, the TT. Yes, it lacks a few things that it really should have, but if I can get a mostly loaded one for under 90K, should I take it. The discount will help offset the depreciation a bit. My gosh its fun to drive. Any advice ??? This is really a great board, and its fun to read your comments. All very valid points. Why cant someone build the perfect car...we'd all be happy to pay a little extra rather than have to pay less and accept shortcomings...Agree ???

highender

Well, I heard that my dealer can get $7000 off MSRP for the turbo Cayenne. If you want the prestige and the performamce and the safety and off road "go anywhere" ability, I think now is the time to buy. I had a Toyota also, a Previa supercharged, and it performed flawlessly for 9 yrs. (we abuse it a lot). Hope the TT can take the abuse.

You are entirely correct in terms of styling and depreciation and fun factor. We would rather pay more now, than not have true offraod ability, and the prestige factor. The fx also provides these, but to a more limited degree.

drivenow

I have browsed many Porsche new car lots, and I'm confused with the available interior headliner materials. Some Cayenne Turbos I have seen have a very luxurious "Alcantera" (suede-like) headliner material, and other Turbos have the "lesser" fabric headliner...I do not see any reference to the nicer "Alcantera" material on the ordering spec sheet or on the window sticker...anyone have any thoughts on this matter? Thanks.

mudman2

That was the result of a spec change which occured in June. The other turbo's must have been in transit before the change. Where are you seeing TT's for sale ?

drivenow

Most of the Connecticut and Metro NY dealers have 1 - 3 TT's available - Check out the Porsche website and search dealer inventories