Low End Sedans (under $16k)

backy

If the manufacturer goes out of business, it would be difficult to find parts and service for the car. As for warranty... who would honor it? But Mitsubishi has some valuable assets, so I doubt they would just close up shop. More likely, another automaker would buy them at a very attractive price. Since there are cars available that are as good or better than the Lancer and at comparable prices, why take the risk?

georgia00

Well, I guess it is back to the Focus or Elantra then. But I am afraid to take a chance with the Elantra because of the wheel shimmy problems reported and some people say their car is in the shop a lot for first few months of ownership. I was only looking at the cars with $1500 rebate or higher.

thanks for sharing your input.

frenchcar

Has anyone on this board ever mentioned the neat little Honda Jazz/Fit for 2006 or the 2005 Nissan Sentra to be built off the Renault Megane II platform or the Nissan Cube that might come to this country. Im looking forward to them but perhaps they are too far in the future for this board??

backy

There's already a discussion in Future Cars about the Honda Jazz/Fit. It looks like a great low-end car to me, one that I'd definitely be interested in when it gets here. The Sentra is already included here so certainly we should talk about its next generation. Do you have any info on it to share with us? IMO Nissan has its work cut out for themselves competing with the likes of the Mazda3, not to mention the next-gen Civic and Elantra coming next year. I haven't heard anything about the Cube coming here--have you? I suppose if Toyota can sell boxes like the Scion xB, Nissan could sell a Cube. ;-)

georgia00

What is the age of your Elantra and have you had any problems with it? Thanks.

backy

I bought my '01 GLS in October '00. I've had very few problems with it. The biggest problem was an O2 sensor that failed after about 18 months; took one hour to diagnose the problem and replace the sensor. Other than that the car hasn't been back to the dealer except during normal maintenance intervals. During those visits they worked on a few little problems, e.g. a buzz in the dash, a squeak in the clutch, and wind noise at the A pillar. There was also a recall they took care of. A couple times I had to come back because they didn't fix the problem quite right, which was not the fault of the car. The car still runs great, is as tight as when it was new, paint and interior still in great shape (save for some soiled mats and a few dings). I have to add that I take very good care of my cars--regular maintenance, frequent washings/waxing, drive moderately most of the time.

I also have a '04 GT 5-door that is mainly for my wife and oldest son to drive--and me when I get a chance. :-) No problems at all in the first three months.

frenchcar

Either Concept Cars, Auto Express, Just Auto . Com or one of many sites recently had pictures of the latest hatchback version of the Renault Megane II that was car of the year in Europe a year or two ago. Fairly good sized and typical French rear end that I love but Nissan is rumored to change the roof and rear as they are afraid Americans will reject it. This will be the first shared platform vehicle between Renault and Nissan for the 05 Sentra. Dealers dont know much about it and it might be February before it shows up if at all. I guess they are having second thoughts as it might be too expensive and a shade too large. Others say they might opt to bring in the "Cube" instead and it would be cheaper and would compete with the Scion xB and Jazz, etc. The Cube is even more unique than the xB and has a sliding back seat, front bench seat with large center armrest and even some of the glass is different on the left and right sides.. Only time will tell but if they catch on then Mazda, Subaru, Daihatsu might all bring in their mini boxes and there is the popular Suzuki Wagon R. We could end up like Europe and Japan. Sounds fun to me.

georgia00

Glad to hear that you have had good luck with your Elantras. I checked on insurance for Elantra GT and GLS and they cost more to insure than the Lancer and Focus. The Lancer had the lowest insurance rate of all and the Elantra GT was most expensive. Still debating on which of these three cars to purchase.

jpryba

Don't get me wrong. I like my 02 Elantra even though it's had some issues. However, I think that if I knew the Focus was going to be recommended by Consumer Reports a year later, I might have considered one of those. I also missed out on the Mazda 3 by about a year and a half. Of course, the 3 is priced a bit beyond what I think we are discussing here.

Once Honda makes ABS standard in all their products in a year or two, I think a low or mid-level Civic will be on my list. That's the main reason why I got an Elantra over a Civic -- the Civic with ABS cost well over $2-3K more than the Elantra with ABS. Granted, a low end Civic still costs more than some Elantra models, but it would be much easier on the wallet than the current EX model.

backy

The Mazda3i is in the low-end ballpark, but just barely. You can get a 3i with a/c under $15k. But with comparable equipment levels, the Elantra will be thousands less, as with the Civic. Honda's making ABS and side bags/curtains standard will put the heat on other automakers to do likewise I think. It will be interesting to see if Honda ups their prices any with that extra standard equipment.

dispencer1

I have ABS on both my 2001 Malibu LS and my 1998 Silhouette. I haven't had any problems with ABS on the Malibu but I've replaced several wheel sensors on the Silhouette as well as the main computer. Each of these costs $300 or more. I was lucky and my mechanic got a replacement computer from a junkyard so it only cost about $200. I drove cars for 30 years without ABS and out here in NM without a lot of rain and snow ABS is not really necessary. If I had the option of NOT purchasing ABS I would not purchase it. My experience with the Olds leads me to the conclusion that it can be a very expensive option down the road when the ABS light comes on.

backy

For myself, I can live without ABS even in Minnesota, as I learned how to drive in winter conditions and my car (Elantra) has well-modulated brakes. But I get ABS on cars my wife, a Texas native, drives as she doesn't have the winter driving skills. Also, I've found ABS invaluable on certain kinds of vehicles, e.g. DC minivans, on which the rear ends break loose easily in slippery conditions without ABS. The cost of ABS components is a good point. I'd hope Honda's ABS systems would be reliable, but their skimpy 3/36 warranty doesn't provide much coverage if something does go wrong with the ABS.

moparbad

The ABS system is likely to be as reliable as the rest of the car. For example I'd expect the probability of ABS problems on a Focus to be much higher than on a Corolla or Civic.

I prefer ABS and stability control to be standard or at least optional. What I really want is the ability to turn the sytems off with a switch.

Even in climates where there is not snow and ice there are situations such as sand and gravel on road, rain on a oily road, and others where ABS can be valuble.

Question- How many less than $15,000 vehicles offer ABS and stability control? I can think of only one, the Scion xB.

alpha01

Both the Focus and the Corolla (S and LE) also offer stability control, though the models with that option sticker around $19,000... which still isnt terrible, considering stability control remains unavailable on some vehicles costing twice that amount. Also, all Toyota/Lexus SUVs have stability control standard, which I think is very valuable in vehicles of that nature. Again, none are exactly inexpensive. Personally, Id really like to see a stability control option on the Mazda 3.

~alpha

moparbad

I see ABS and traction control as options on the Focus, however, I see no stability control as an option on any trim. I forgot about the Corolla having optional stability control. Never seen a new one equipped with it.
I'm thinking the Scion xB is the lowest priced vehicle in the US with standard stability control. Funny, stability control is standard and cruise control is not even available as an option unless you go aftermarket.

backy

Is it possible Toyota felt stability control was a necessity on the xB because of its relatively high center of gravity for such a small, light car? Otherwise, why make stability control standard when none of its competitors have it? The CR review mentioned the "disconcerting" handling of the Aveo 5-door. Of course, a lot of that could be due to a soft suspension, but consider the xB is six inches taller, 45 pounds lighter, and has 1.5 inches more ground clearance than the Aveo (meaning the xB's mass is higher in the air).

georgia00

Have there been a lot of recalls on the Focus 2003 or 2004? I am looking at the Elantra or Focus now. Was looking at the Lancer but, the rebate has dropped to $1,000. :-(

I know that I like the way an Elantra drives better than the Focus SE, but I am worried about the wheel vibrations what some people report on Elantra. I am a person who does not drive a car hard. My driving is mainly on highways-- no Interstates. Maybe the Elantra would hold up with me? I am just scared to take a chance and buy a new car and have it in the shop like some people have reported they have had. Of course, the same thing can happen with a Toyota or Honda, too.

Would like to hear your comments. Thanks.

csandste

This comment comes and goes. It made me concerned when I bought mine in '01, very little discussion for a couple of years and now more comments. Remember, these forums are based on a limited number of respondents and are not statistically significant.

When I bought my 01 GLS, the shimmy issue was big enough so that I bought a grey rather than red car because the grey seemed more stabil. I did pick up a bit of shake but the $7 lifetime balance at Wal-Mart fixed things and the replacement Uniroyal Tiger Paws have had absolutely no shimmy issues with 65K on the car. Remember Wal-Mart or any other major tire dealer handles many more tire installations than a typical dealer and can often deal with balance problems more effectively.

Test drive an Elantra and if that one doesn't shimmy, I doubt if you'll have many problems.

grandtotal

You are obviously a cost-conscious buyer (your comment about the rebate being reduced was enough to finally rule out the Lancer), so have you really looked closely at the cost of each of these vehicles to own as opposed to purchase in the first place? Any of Sentra, Civic or Corolla would likely be cheaper to operate than either Elantra or Focus. Take a look at Edmund's own TCO comparison. Of course if you want an Elantra or Focus for it's own sake then just ignore this suggestion.

georgia00

This is very helpful. I had not used this feature before for comparing ownership costs. I did find out one thing in my research though and that is Elantra is higher to insure than the Lancer and Focus.

I work at place where with nearly 400 people and have only seen two Hyundais on the lot. :-) I have read that the quality has improved but I am still afraid "to get bitten" if I get a car with a few problems,even though I do like the Elantra.

georgia00

My test drive was only in a 45 mph zone. I guess I need to get on 65 mph road for another test drive. I did notice that the steering was very loose (not stiff like some cars) when I made a slight U turn.

backy

Good suggestion, but be sure to compare similarly-equipped models. For the Elantra GLS, those would be the Corolla LE, Civic LX, Focus SE, and Sentra 1.8S. The TCO link has the Elantra GLS compared to base models of the other cars, which have lesser equipment than the Elantra.

I noticed that the TCO calculator shows the Corolla LE has the same cost per mile as the CE. So the question is, why would anyone buy a lesser-equipped CE?

backy

I assume you were at a low speed making the U turn. The Elantra has speed-sensitive steering; it is designed to loosen up at low speeds (for U turns, parking lots) and stiffen up on the highway.

georgia00

Oh, that explains it. :-) Yes, I was at a low speed making the U turn. I have never heard of speed-sensitive steering. I have owned corollas and a protege in the past but they didn't steer like that. So, I was not used to this. Is speed-sensitive steering a good thing?

backy

Yes! Unless you want to build up your forearms by driving your car.

georgia00

Is the Focus ZTS more reliable than the Focus SE and LX? Are there less recalls on the ZTS? Thanks.

seminole_kev

no they're the same basic cars. Just option differences. Really it is the year of Focus involved rather than the trim (LX, SE, ZTS, etc...) that matters for how many recalls there might be.

majorthomecho

Sorry that I have been away, but my work has gone back to (semi) mandatory overtime. This has been going on for over a month which explains my absence.

I have to work this weekend which means I get one day off and I chose Thursday because that is the first day of this year's GM's Autoshow In Motion. I can't wait.

I am going all four days with Thursday being when I go all day.

The cars (not necessarily all low end sedans) I hope to test drive are the Pontiac GTO, Chevy Aveo, Chrysler 300C, and Mazda 3.

Hopefully, I will find time to post my impressions.

In closing, I want to tell you that I got to flog (in a straight line) a Dodge Neon SRT-4. Can you say FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lngtonge18

I don't know if you have made a decision yet, but here is a new variable that might be of interest to you. Mitsubishi just increased the warranty on the Lancer to 5yr/60k bumper-to-bumper and 10yr/100k powertrain, so it matches Hyundai now, but what might be of interest to you is free scheduled maintenance for 4yr/45k. The free scheduled maintenance can easily make up for the reduced rebate and will significantly reduce the cost of ownership.

By the way, I used to own a 2002 Lancer OZ and it provided 31k trouble free miles. It was only taken to the dealer once to install a screen to help keep leaves from getting into the AC ducts and clog up the drain hose (my passenger floor was soaked a few times from a clog); this was installed on all 03 and newer Lancers from the factory. It was very reliable and a nice styled roomy car. I would recommend it over the Focus even with Mitsu's current financial problems (which are less severe now that they have been given $3 billion to make the necessary changes to rebuild). The Elantra is also a good car and should be very reliable.

Ultimately, it should come down to which car fits your needs and feels better to you. I personally would choose the Lancer due to its free scheduled maintenance and long warranty, but the Elantra is an excellent choice as well. The Focus is a good car, but I feel you would be more likely to run into a problem with it (my friend's 01 ZX3 was a nightmare). Another consideration: the Lancer has the best offset impact scores but the Elantra has the best side impact scores.

georgia00

Thanks for the update, Ingtonge. I had read about the change in the Lancer's warranty and scheduled maintenance that Mitsubishi is offering. I like the Lancers, but they won't help my situation. I need a car with 4K plus rebate to cover negative equity.

I like the Elantra though the recall on gas valve/line changed my mind. Also, been looking at PT Cruiser with 4K rebate but gas mileage seems too low.

I totally agree with your comments on the Focus. Have read too many horror stories on issues with Focus.

So, I am still looking while the rebates are still high on the 2004 model cars.

backy

If I were you I wouldn't let one recall affect your buying decision. Lots of cars have safety-related recalls. For example, the Toyota Sienna's gas tank was modified after an incident similar to that with the Elantra occured during crash testing. You won't find a car that is perfect--especially one with a 4k rebate.

backy

I just returned from two weeks in England, which is small car heaven compared to the U.S. Especially for hatchbacks, which by my estimates make up 65-75% of the market.

I bought a car mag there, appropriately called Car, and it has a section in the back that rates every car on the market (in the UK of course). Not only is it a useful reference, it is very witty and sometimes hilarious in its capsule summaries of the cars. A couple of my favorites:

Chrysler Neon
For: Nothing
Against: Everything
Sum up: Don't even go there

Kia Rio
For: She dances in the sand
Against: Like a river twisting through a dusty land
Sum up: And when she shines...

Anyway, here is how they rate (out of five stars) the low-end sedans that are available in the US (note how few are also available in the UK):

Neon: 1
Kalos (Aveo): 2
Focus: 4 to 5 ("still the class leader")
Civic: 3 to 5
Accent: 2
Elantra: 2
Rio: 2
Shuma (old Spectra sedan): 1
Mazda3: 3
Corolla: 3

Note that the Corolla and Civic are available as 5-door models in the UK.

iluvmysephia1

it's really pretty funny. They do possess some good car experience and I find it to be a much better read than most all of the American car mags. That review capsulation section in the back is really fun to read.

They really love the Ford Focus, don't they? Actually, I put more stock in their "low-end" reviews because Europe is such a "small-car" market. When you're reading an American car mag you're just waiting for the large pickup and large SUV praisings or the Corvette or Focus schmoozing to grose you out. They bore me silly. CAR magazine is a very honest magazine and always entertaining to read.

Did you enjoy the fish'n chips over there, backy?

majorthomecho

Went twice to GM's Autoshow In Motion and unfortunately, they did not have a lot of the cars I was looking forward to drive. Virtually no Daimler-Chrysler products and no new Mazda3.

I did drive the Chevy Aveo (with automatic) and it was a dog. I would have to say it was tied for being the top dog there and I don't mean it in a good way.

The problems were that it had no get up and go and had a low threshold for tolerating speed. What I mean is it was really hard to get it to go fast and when I tried to go fast it did not handle well. The Scion xA was far more tolerant to going fast around the corners.

I said the Aveo was tied for top dog and the other top dog might surprise you. It was not a low end sedan so bringing it up might be off topic, but you are my friends so I want to share it with you.

The other top dog was the Saab 9-2x. The problem might have been that it was an automatic which probably caused it lack of grunt, but the turbo lag drove me crazy. The suspension felt like it would be really capable of handling high speed, but the transmission did not allow for the speed to be delivered on the short track.

If the GM Autoshow In Motion comes to a town near you, GO!

iluvmysephia1

Enjoyed your GM Autoshow In Motion review. Tell ya what, you're test-driving too many automatics. I insist on manual tranny's, funner to drive and you get a better "feel" for both the car and it's motor and gearing system.

Wonder if this GM In Motion is going to come to St.Louis? I wouldn't mind test-driving the manually-transmissioned Aveo sedan or hatchback.

backy

Yes, I had exceptional fish and chips (once). It's not my favorite--too greasy. Got to watch the cholesterol.

It's really pathetic when you compare all the small cars offered in Europe to the paltry offerings we have here. We get a few of the cars offered in Europe, but mostly sedans. Much greater engine choices in Europe also, from gas-sipping small displacement motors to the same engines we have here to turbodiesels. Car Magazine tells its readers "don't even go there" for a mainstream U.S. small car offering, the Neon. Yes, we get the Focus, but it has a much better quality reputation in Europe than it does in the U.S. And of course Europe (and even China!) get the next-generation Focus next year, while the U.S. gets the tweaked first-generation model. Models that get good reviews in the U.S., like the Mazda3, Civic, ECHO (Yaris), Elantra, and Corolla, get 2 or 3 stars (out of 5) in Car. At least Honda plans to import the Jazz/Fit here; that is Car's top pick in its class.

majorthomecho

The reason I drove so many automatics was that was what was there. A lot more people know how to drive automatics than sticks and GM has to bring what the most people know how to drive.

Go to the gmautoshowinmotion website to see where they are going to be.

jojomonkeyboy

I ended up purchasing a Toyota Echo - I compared, Kia Rio, Ford Focus, Saturn Ion. I liked the Saturn Ion the best, as far as the ride, and its clutch. But I wanted a reliable car with a proven history and the Ion was new and didn't have a history. Consumer reports rated the 2003 Echo high on reliability. I drove the Kia Rio and didn't like the ride, or the interior. The car is 169.9" x 65.9" whereas the Echo is 163.2 x 65.4 so the Rio is about 3 inches longer than the Echo - but even with the driver's seat all the way back on the Rio I found the ride uncomfortable. My left leg was bent at an uncomfortable angle, and it was bumping into stuff on the drivers side door - I just thought that it was cramped. The specs say that the Rio has 42.8" legroom and the Echo has 41.1" legroom - but it seemed to me that the Echo has more legroom for the driver. It's amazing that the Echo which is 3" shorter had a more comfortable interior - at least for me, I'm only 6"1'. I can't see why the Rio gets such poor gas mileage compared to the Echo - except its 400 lbs heavier.

I didn't try the Hyundai - I owned a Hyundai Excell and it was the lowest quality car I've ever owned and my experience with the Service department at the dealership was the worst I've ever had in my life.

I did recently drive a Chevy Aveo... (after I purchased my Toyota Echo). The specs say that it has about the same legroom as the Echo (41.1") but I put the seat all the way back and it seemed that it had more legroom than the Echo. I didn't like the clutch - alot of unecesary travel in the clutch IMO. And I didn't like the shifter. I was also disappointed in the gas milage 27 / 35. My Echo is rated 35 / 43 - I actualy average 37mpg. If I had to guess what I'd get with an Aveo - I'd say it'd probably be 30 or 31. Teh fact that the Aveo's engine is Korean kinda scares me too - I've heard good reviews and bad reviews anout Kia and Hyundai quality. I only know that I owned a Hyundai Excel and the thing was not a very good car and the Service department treated me poorly when I brought it in for warranty repairs.

I also put a fair amount of money into the car after the warranty was up.

After my experience with the Hyundai - I wanted to get a high quality car with a proven record of reliabiltiy. I wanted to have as little liklyhood as possible of having to take it into the shop and I was willing to pay more money for that quality.

backy

The ECHO is one of the most reliable low-end cars, so since that was key for you and you wanted high mpg, the ECHO was a good choice.

However, you might be surprised at what has happened to Hyundai since the Excel days. Reliability has improved greatly, with most models ranked at least Average and some Above Average in reliability by Consumer Reports. Hyundai is now one of the top brands for initial quality according to JD Power; Hyundai even topped Toyota in its latest survey.

But if I were to compare the ECHO to Hyundai based on the Excel, I would have bought an ECHO too!

jojomonkeyboy

I don't think Hyundai topped Toyota in the latest survey. Unless there is a latest survey ou there that I don't know about. Hyundai got a lot of hype because of the vast improvement it had from its former position of very low quality, and it tied Honda for the initial quality survey. From what I understand, the initial quality survey turned out not to be a good predictor of long-term quality for Hyundai:

http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2004/mft04063008.htm?source=eptyholn- - k303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

backy

I am referring to the latest JD Power IQS survey. On a nameplate basis, Hyundai did better than Toyota, topping not only Toyota but also Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Acura, Mazda, Scion and many others. Hyundai was 7th overall by nameplate, behind only Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar, Honda, Buick, and Mercury.

I tried to provide the link from the JD Power site but the site seems to be down; it is www.jdpower.com if you want to look for yourself. I prefer to look at the raw data rather than let Motley Fool et. al. tell me what I should think about the data.

Keep in mind that the long-term test results are measuring cars designed and built several years ago. Hyundai's big push on quality didn't start until 1998, and they started redesigning most of their cars in the 2001 model year so what will be interesting to see is if the long-term reliability starts climbing over the next few years based on those models. There is evidence from Consumer Reports' reliability studies that this is in fact happening. In their reliability survey of three-year-old cars (2001s), Hyundai ranked mid-pack. In the 2003 survey, they ranked ninth, with 14 defects per 100 cars vs. 9 for Lexus, 10 for Infiniti, 10 for Honda, 11 for Toyota, 13 for Acura, 13 for Mazda, 13 for Buick, and 14 for Saturn and Nissan. Do you think those other automakers are hearing footsteps?

jojomonkeyboy

I think American automakers are in trouble because they were /are being squeezed by the Japanese on the high end when it comes to superior reliability, and are being squeezed by Korean manufacturers on price.

Now that Korean car makers are improving quality, what niche do American auto makers fill? I don't dispute that Korean makers are improving quality. I just don't think they've attained the level of quality that Toyota has, Toyota has focused on quality for a long time, I don't think making a last minute push for quality is going to catch them.

backy

I agree the Korean automakers haven't reached quality pairity with Toyota (and Honda), measured by long-term reliability. The initial quality is in the same ballpark, and design is catching up. Take a look at Edmunds.com's recent road test of the "new" 2004 Kia Spectra to see an opinion as to how close the Koreans are coming to the Japanese automakers on quality.

The U.S. automakers, or some of them, aren't giving up on small cars. The new Cobalt will be a big improvement over the Cavalier. The Focus is one of top small cars, and its reliability has become pretty good. We'll have to wait to see what DC does with the Neon--it's sorely outclassed now.

jojomonkeyboy

Can you get the J.D Powers Initial Quality survey from their site?

I don't think so, I think you have to pay for it...

But what's very very latest? The one that came out April 28th is the latest right?

http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=8- - 54&CatID=1

"Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. continues to be the highest-ranking corporation in IQS"

Hyundai, which jumps an impressive 16 rank positions from 2003, makes "the most significant advancement, improving 29 percent year-over-year to rank seventh".

I'd like to see the actual numbers. I think that Hyundai is beating other auto makers in the RATE of their improvement - not in the actual quality.

It's not surprising that they could make such dramatic improvements considering how low their quality was. But at a certain level a maunufacturing company begins to run into the law of dimishing returns. On a scale of 1 to 100, it takes much less effort and inginuity to improve your quality from a 10 to 15 than it does from 97 to 98

jojomonkeyboy

I've been reading Edmunds Top 10 features for Commuter Cars. With gas prices over $2.00 / gallon in some places they rate a good CD player over good gas mileage?

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102588/article.html?tid- =edmunds.h..topfeatures.commute.0.*

backy

Please see http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004037
for the actual numbers. They indicate, as I stated before, that on a nameplate basis Hyundai topped Toyota, 102 vs. 104 in problems per 100 vehicles. On a corporate basis, i.e. when Lexus is included, Toyota edged Hyundai and Honda 101 to 102. The next-highest corporation was BMW with 116.

Why do you say Hyundai is beating other auto makers on only the rate of improvement and not actual quality? The JD Power IQS study is clear that both the rate of improvement and the actual quality of Hyundai's vehicles has improved markedly since 1998. The 102 number is an actual number of problems per 100 vehicles, not a rate.

opalope

ok 2002 preowned civic from honda dealer auto lx round 30,000 miles 12,000out the door or new hyundai elantra auto for 12,800 out the door?i like elantra and the price is nice but im not sure about the long term reliability if i felt better about that id buy it in a heart beat.if theres anyother cars im missing please let me know i cant go over 13,000 otd.thanks for helping me out i actually posted in the wrong section last time so hopefully you guys will help me out thanks soooooo much in advance.

backy

The Civic has 6,000 miles of warranty left (unless it has an extended warranty). It has a good reliability record but once that warranty expires, you pay for any problems (with some exceptions like emissions controls, which have their own warranty). The Elantra would have a bumper-to-bumper warranty for 5 years, 60,000 miles, and a powertrain warranty for 10 years, 100,000 miles (includes the automatic tranny). You also get free roadside assistance with the Elantra for 5 years. The predicted reliability of the Elantra per Consumer Reports is Above Average--just a tick below the Civic's. Also, do you know the history of the Civic, i.e. maintenance? abuse? I like to buy new cars because I take very good care of them; I don't want to buy other people's problems. I also like the no-worries of a new-car warranty.

P.S. A problem reported on some Elantras is shimmy in the steering wheel at highway speeds. If you go with the Elantra be sure to take it up to 65-75 mph on the test drive. If it has any sign of wheel shimmy, try a different unit. None of the Elantras I've driven (eight in all) have had this problem, but if the shimmy is there sometimes it is tough to eliminate.

robinkay

I've been reading these posts - am considering the following cars: Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus, Nissan Sentra, Honda Civic. All are in contention, but the Civic doesn't have a rebate, which is important to me right now. Focus has $3k which is attractive, but I don't want to buy just based on that. All have decent mileage - any thoughts about the Sentra?

iluvmysephia1

Sentra's build quality. No kidding. I'd stay away from a Nissan Sentra. I'd buy the Elantra, or, better yet, I'd pick up a new Kia Spectra. I prefer the looks of the Spectra to Elantra and you get a lot of car for the money with the Spectra. And you get side curtain airbags AND disc brakes all around STANDARD on the Kia Spectra. An easy nod to Kia for me on this one. No, I don't own Kia stock, nor am I a Kia salesman.