Can you just change the oil filter and not the oil?

bushone

the filter and adding oil would seem to be enough. All you need is the filter to clean out the impurities in the oil. The add a quart or two of new oil to top off the level.

adc100

Conventional oil wears out (oxidizes thickens, etc). If you are doing highway miles than you could go a bit beyond 7500 and throw on a filter at 3 or 4 K. However if you use a good filter (Pure One, Mobil 1, amsoil, AC Ultraguard) they can go beyond 7500K also so it's not economically wise. Considering the cost of conventional oil is say $1.39 you are better off changing at the recommended intervals. On the other hand if you go with syn, than changing once a year and a filter at 6 months makes sense.

armtdm

There is not a full flow spin on filter made today that will consistently (multiple pass test) remove particles under 10 microns, most don't go down that low. So the wear metals and silicon do build up and eventually need to be drained out. Not sure of zillion of particles of 10 micron iron or dirt can damage an engine but I feel that it can.

bretfraz

Don't forget that oil not only lubricates, it also cools and cleans. Soot, carbon, and varnish are what turn the honey-colored oil to black. If you don't change the oil regularly, the soot and carbon act as abrasives to slowly grind engine parts. Think of the extrude-honing process but slipperier.

I'm with ADC on this point: Motor Oil is super cheap. I don't understand the practicality or logic behind not changing it every 3K or so. Heck, I saw a TV commercial advertising Texaco Havoline for 79 cents/quart. Buy a top quality filter and you can change your oil for under $10.

By comparison, the iced venti nonfat mocha I just bought at Starbucks cost $3.90. The lemon pound cake slice was $1.70.

It's all about value, my friends.

armtdm

So, an awful lot of truth to the statement that we care more about what we put into our car engines then what we put into our bodies. Lemon pound cake and "NONFAT" mocha

Actually, your can go much further then 3000 with synthetic but I will not start that argument.

tboner1965

I was about 1000 miles from my scheduled oil change, but was about to take an 1800 mile trip.

Didn't really want to take my drain pan and do an oil change in the hotel parking lot in the middle of December, so I just pulled the filter and replaced it, added a quart of new oil, and took my trip.

Did the "full" oil change 1000 miles "late" so I had 6K on the Mobil 1 instead of 5K.

But, I wouldn't recommend it as a regular practice.

Cheers,

TB

wilcox

changing the oil filter every other 3,500 mile oil change?

rcarboni

Oil is cheap, but my time is not! The last thing I want to be doing on a sunny weekend afternoon is crawling under my car. Also, what do you do with all that used oil you create?

I run Amsoil synth, change the filter every 5k, and change the oil once a year. Sweet deal for us lazy people.

palfito01

Are Mobil and Amsoil synthetics virtually the same? Which one is better.

I need 5W-20 and from what I have heard Amsoil is the only synthetic so far. Amsoil is telling you to change at 7,500 or 6 months, whichever is sooner. The 5W-20 weight Amsoil is different then the other Amsoil synthetics. Why do they recommend 7,500 and not 25,000? Whats the difference.

Is Mobil coming out with a 5W-20 sythetic any time soon? Thanks.

armtdm

I love to copy and paste, same message posted under synthetic oil so same response.

The Amsoil 5 W 20 is the XL label which was designed for the quick lube
business where people are reluctant to go beyond 7,500 mile changes.(or 3000
for that matter) To capture that market they formulated the XL series of oil. The
additive package is not as good ( meaning not as durable for extended use) as
the other oils that are slated for 25,000.

It's actually that simple!

rcarboni

Basically, the Amsoil XL oils are API approved, which is a bunch of marketing hype. Because of the lower levels of phosphorous and such, they don't recommend them as extended drain oils. They simply offer them to people who want a warm and fuzzy by staying within manufacturers recommendations. Here is a better explanation:

http://www.noria.com/boards/thread2.cfm?threadid=471&messages=18#3374

isellhondas

If you change your oil filter every other time,I'm sure nothing bad will happen since you dump the oil at 3500 miles.

But, I dunno, the filters are cheap. To me, that would be like taking a shower and putting my dirty clothes back on.

bushone

I usually don't wash my pants till thay can stand on there own in the corner of the room. Come to think of it...That's about when I change my oil, whenit stands on it's own like maple surup in Jan...on the north poll.

swschrad

you can also put on clean clothes and never take a bath, and die of atomic-powered zits... all alone and downwind of town by public law. oil not only suspends dirt and grit, it (for a short time) neutralizes acids caused by blow-by water and exhaust gases... and later carries them all throughout the vehicle, chawing at all the parts. let the oil recyclers deal with that eating the tanks off their trucks, I prefer frequent changes of both oil and filter.

adc100

where my neighbor never changed oil. I don't recall the milage on the vehicle, but every moving part in the engine was shot.

stealth1969

like changing a baby's diaper, but not cleaning the baby. A waste of time and energy.

wtd44

You should read this thread...

armtdm

On the cars where I change the oil only once a year I do change the filter at 6 months but not the oil. Works fine for me.

rcarboni

You are using extended drain oil I assume. I do this as well - change filter at 5K, oil at 1 year.

I may be wrong, but the original question here seemed to be in regard to any oil. Extended drains always seems to confuse the general population in these forums.

julus

wtd44, I am reading and learning. I had not considered the acid build-up when changing only the filter and never the oil. In the future, I will, upon occasion, add a spoon full or so of Plumbers Helper. Plumbers Helper is a strong base ... bases neutralize acids by turning into water and a salt. The water will boil away and the new filter will catch the salt which is insoluble in oil. It is amazing how many good tips I get from a place like this.

adc100

you're kidding - right? wtd-your link didn't come through-for me anyway. Don't know how julus saw it. Anyway I read somewhere that reducing the TBN causes problems. I believe you get a lot of ash as I recall. Getting the right TBN is a delecate balancing act. Anyway it might also affect the additive package (I don't know). The salt may or may not be soluble in oil- don't know that either. Its a good thought though.

wtd44

...to throw in a little humor. It can actually stimulate further discussion and doubly prove its worth.

dunkmydonut

Ive always been a bit quirky about oil changes. The way I look at it is ten bucks for oil & filter change is the best insurance going for your enjine. Not only can dirty oil sludge up your enjine, but plugs return holes too. Ive never ruined an enjine yet, and I've been driving since the sixties. How lazy can you get?

rcarboni

You should do advertising work for the quicky-lube places. They love that "scare" mentality.

Have you ever heard of anyone "ruining" their engine who was on a 25,000-35,000 mile drain interval with analysis? I haven't, but I have heard of people changing their oil within limits and because they used cheap oil or a cheap filter that let them down, they suffered poor engine performance and/or damage. So, my opinion would be that it is of much higher risk to change frequently if you are using oil and filters of unknown quality, or are not doing analysis.

scamp11

change filter without draining oil? Do you have to drain oil and then pour it back in?

smithed

I have two vehicles which may be driven only 4 to 5 thousands miles per year. So my question is how often should the oil be changed. Does dwell time in the crankcase make a difference. I have been using regular oil and change the filter with every change, usually at 6 month intervals.

Thanks

heng

I recognize that you have your oil analyzed regularly and developed a maintainence program around it. But the rest of us who don't (99.99%) take a simple and proven approach (adc100, don't say a word) and change our oil more frequently than you.

armtdm

If you only put on 5000 miles a year but if the vast majority of those engine starts resulted in trips of at least 10 miles then once a year changes are fine with a fitler at six months. My daughter's car gets only 5,000-10,000 miles/year and I use synthetic with a filter at six months oil once a year, have been doing this for multiple years now. Oil analysis comes back fine. Many of her starts at school are short trips too!

If you do not see condensation on the tip of the dipstick in the winter you are probalby fine with once a year

rcarboni

"simple and proven approach"

What is proven about it? Many engines fail with regular maintenance. What are you accomplishing? If you can support the "proven" theory with hard facts that changing the oil at 3K intervals provides more protection than using a quality synthetic at extended drain intervals with analysis, then I will take back what I've said.

bushone

and topped off the old oil with about a quart (including the pre-filter fill). I'm going on an every-other-time system. Filter only at 3 to 4k...then complete change the next time.

wtd44

I thought oil analysis was for frugile, lazy people that didn't want to kick for a few quarts of oil every three to five K. It appears that the analysis tells you when you have waited too long, so then you change the oil-- late. :^)

rcarboni

Yes, and the 3K oil change is for those that like telling everyone how well they take care of their engine because that's what they saw on TV, and measure this by the amount of oil spilled on the garage floor!

adc100

I didn't say a thing.

Later

wtd44

You should try it! The patina of oiled concrete is spectacular in the late evening low light, streaming in the open bay doors...
Saw what on TV?

rcarboni

You mean you haven't seen that advertising gem from Quaker State that says they offer you "protection beyond 3000 miles"? They are fully implying that if you don't use this oil, then you had better be changing at 3000, OR ELSE!!!

The disclaimer they forget to mention is that ALL of their oils are mandated to meet the same test criteria that the API approves a safe drain interval of 12,000 miles! They don't even have the integrity to say, "refer to your owner's manual for recommended intervals". Nope, 3,000 miles covers every make out there according to them. Same with the quicky-lube joints.

And just like slack-jawed, gullible rubes, the general masses believes this dribble. Hey, whatever... if you want to change your oil at 10 miles, go for it. Dump the used oil in your local stream, and throw the filter out your window as you drive home. Your car will last 100K miles, and that's what's important, right?

End of Rant.

brorjace

It's the commercial with that pretty Italian girl from "Just Shoot Me" (I forget the name).

Yeah, like SHE's an expert in tribology or mechanical engineering. :rolleyes: Words of caution about my ride from HER I don't need!

I switched to Redline synthetic and either use an OEM or (next) hastings filters and I'll be doing my changes about every 5 months. This works out to about 7,000 miles ...

... and I know even THAT is overkill ... even for an engine like mine that's somewhat over-worked and at high RPMs some times for hours on end.

--- Bror Jace

heng

about dunkmydoughnut should do advertising for quicky lubes. That is what bothers me. Not the rest of your post.

I guess I can't 'prove' anything in a chat type posting and neither can you or anyone else for that matter. But I have owned many vehicles that have gone over 100K miles with no problems from lubrication. I consistently use a name brand oil, filters and 4500 mile oil change intervals.

I give you credit for the rigorous oil analysis and maintenance routine you set up. But for most of us, reasonable oil change intervals works fine.

lbthedog

Most vehicles really don't need the 3k oil/filter change. But after spending around $20k for a vehicle, I can't justify cutting corners on lube. The oils in the last ten years have improved an incredible amount. There's a rumor that one manufacturer considered building a new engine that didn't have a filter. Just change the oil. The main reason why I don't believe filter only changes are a good is the the additive packages in modern oil can consist of 30% of the lube. The filter is really not much more than a trap for the large particles. Heat cycling this stuff will break down the additives and create "oil" that you really don't want in there. This "stuff" isn't only bad for bearings, it's also bad for cat convertors. No matter how tight your motor is, there's still a small bit that gets in the combustion chamber. While still sort of on the subject, is this string in any way related to the old days of the toilet paper oil filter?

wtd44

I have lost my ability to absorb television advertising, so the Q State implications on 3K or else have escaped me. Change oil in 10 miles, in the stream, filter out the window-- how long have you been having these feelings? Are you thwarting the ecopolice? :^(
I have heard varying claims on the TP filter systems of old. They may have been rather effective. Thats a lot of square inches of filtering-- and really tough to fling out the window at speed without getting oil on the side of the car and suck-back onto the upholstery!

adc100

I am the last person in the world that would discourage someone from doing it in the interest of preserving their vehicle, keeping it more reliable, and just plain curiosity. As an engineer, I appreciate those things.

I have learned though over the years with many, many vehicles that those where the oil stays the cleanest seem to hold op the best and tend not to use oil as the engine gets older. On the other hand those engines in which the oil turns darker quicker use more oil and as the car ages and that oil usage generally (althought not always) goes up) Those engines struggle to make 100K. I've had two that did not make it.

What does this mean. To me it means that if the engine oil is clean-all is well. When the oil goes from dark honey color to black. A change is more than necessary.

I hasten to add that black oil is not necessaily bad. Oil analysis here have proved that and I also know that as a fact. But for me- I will have no black oil in my vehicles-thank you. The other reason why I don't do the analysis I guess is - if irons or silicons come back high what am I going to do about it? The answer is nothing. I have synthetic in it and its clean. Am I gonna' drain it and put new in- I don't think so. As I said, I wouldn't discourage anyone from testing. Oh yea-it can detect antifreeze-that one could be worth looking at-but again I monitor my antifreeze level and if its not visibly going down I don't pull the heads.

armtdm

In general I concur that black oil is not good. However, in my somewhat extended drain intervals using synthetics over the past 9 years I have yet to see black oil. I use analysis also but even at 15,000 miles the oil is still amber (granted, a darker amber then at 50 miles) when hot and you can see through it if you hold it up to light.

So, having used synthetic on about 7 different cars now I have yet to see black oil. The highest mileage that I have ever converted to synthetic at has been 57,000 miles.
Of the 7 or so still have 3 and going fine, others have been company cars which are sold at 60,000 miles. Longest I have on synthetic is 135,000 miles switched at 1000. On this car I had a 15,000 mile analysis and I did nto like the results but the oil was still amber, not black.

rcarboni

... with the exception of a few like armtdm and Bror Jace. This is not meant to be offensive. The point here is that, yes heng, I CAN prove that running extended drains of 25,000 miles is protecting my engine. The proof is in the analysis. So, follow me here, if we know with proof that you can change your oil at extended drains of 25,000 miles and it is perfectly safe, why would you want to keep changing at 3K? What benefit are you deriving with the quicky change? Please specify a specific benefit for me as I have asked this all along, and no one has replied. 3K changes are not cheaper; they require more time and work; they do not provide more protection (proven), and in most cases are providing far less protection because you are using an inferior oil. They also deplete a limited resource, and increase pollution in disposal, transport, and recycling. I'm not some enviro-nut, but I do hunt and fish and care about natural resources when the solution is such a simple fix that is being ignored.

So, I just don't get it. Why do you continue? Why do so many not even follow their owner's manual and just change when the quicky-lube sticker says so? I'm open minded - if you convince me that there is a proven benefit to 3K oil changes, I promise I won't rant anymore!

adc100

You're wasting your time. You'll never convince 'em.

rcarboni

... must ... keep ... trying ... there must be a way to reach them! ....

adc100

he...

jodar96

A mechanic once said changing your oil without changing the filter is like taking a shower and putting on the same clothes.

Everytime I think about it I can't help chaning both oil and the filter.

heng

But you didn't accept mine. So how is that conducive to dialogue?

But you have peeked my interest. Where can I find how to use oil analysis?

wtd44

But to the point-- for most people, analysis is useless, unless the analyzer is a shrink... :^}

adc100

It'll cost 'ya 10 bucks. I'm thinking of getting it.

http://www.sae.org/servlets/productDetail?PROD_TYP=PAPER&PROD_CD=981448

rcarboni

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what proof you wanted me to accept. I agree with you that frequent oil changes work. No one would disagree with that. The issue is that they are overkill and wasteful, and don't really allow an owner to know the status of the oil or whether it is working or not. Therefore, they are not practical.

I keep hearing the "baby" analogy in reference to oil and filter, so I'll use it for frequent oil changes. Changing your oil every 3,000 miles is like changing a baby's diaper every 5 minutes. The diaper doesn't always need to be changed, but you can guarantee that the baby will always have a clean diaper! Ok, that wasn't that good, but you get the picture.

If you have noticed, many car makers are now implementing some kind of "analysis" right into the electronics of the car. For example, Mercedes has the most sophisticated system where an electrical signal is passed through the oil. Based on the resulting "resistance", their analyzer can determine how much safe life is left in the oil. This is hopefully where all cars are heading in the next 5-10 years.

Other cars (GM products) have a less sophisticated system where an algorithm calculates oil life based on engine hours, temperature, speed, rpms, etc. This is a good start, but the problem is that the algorithm is based on "standard" oils and does not take into account the extended additive packages and longevity of synthetics. Still, it's a step in the right direction.

Again, I apologize for trying to condemn you or anyone else here. I tend to get annoyed with the "Marketing of America" where half-truths and outright lies are perpetuated by manufacturers for the sake of a few dollars more. It's unbelievable how far some will go - as is the case with products like Z-Max and fuel line magnets.

armtdm

Yea, I have a 2000 Buick Regal GSE and the manual says the light will come on anywhere between 3000 and 7,500 miles but to never go beyond 7,500. I received a notice from the dealer to come in for my 3000 mile oil change. I sent a note back that they need to read their own owner's manual, no where does it have any speciifed interval other then not going beyond 7,500 and change when the light comes on. In my case, after the initial change at 4,400 miles (analysis was fine even on the dino stuff from the factory) I am going to my normal 12,000 mile schedule with my synthetic. Typical dealer scam to generate service dept. business. I do not worry about warranties, like the Toyota owners that have sludge are finding out, most are not worth the paper they are printed on and I will have analysis to go to court with if I ever get denied a claim. But, with synthetic hell will freeze over before sludge builds up!