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Can you just change the oil filter and not the oil?
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Comments
--- Bror Jace
95 Ranger, 2.3, 5 speed. 74000 miles, Gets oil and flter changes every 5000 miles on the dot along with most other recommended maintenance. It needs to last at least another 50 thousand miles before replacement. I feel no need whatsoever to test my own personal theories on engine longevity and oil break-down. I figure 30 bucks every 5K is no big deal. So what if I could let it slide until 7500 miles or 10 thousand miles or whatever.
On another subject. I was having problems with discrepancies on oil filter part numbers for my Sentra (2001) As it turns out between 2000 and 2001 Nissan switched all of their engines to the extremely small (Purolator # L14610) Obviously they put inventory ahead of the better filtering larger filters. So there's just another example eharri3 that sometimes it doesn't hurt to think outside the box. I went with a filter which is 1/3 larger. Of course I'm in trouble because the Autozone man said it wouldn't work.
http://www.novaregion.org/arner/ra-uoctl.htm
http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/may99/features/vitalsigns/vitalsigns.html
How do you know your avoiding engine wear and getting better mileage by changing the oil sooner?
BTW, Castrol claims no loss in protection or longevity from their previous formula. They made the change for obvious cost savings, but forgot to pass those savings along to the consumer!
Some reading material:
http://www.guarding-our-earth.com/amsoil/basestocks.shtml
It's also nice when the nut and the filter are tightened sufficiently
that they don't let my engine's life blood come gushing back out.
You said "experience", not "evidence." Show me two identical cars under identical conditions, driven the same way, one on synthetic, one on dyno, with all other maintenance being the same, and one lasts significantly longer,and I'll be swayed in my opinion. To me, experience means you know of lots of people who had cars go 200k on synthetic. Thing is, 200K on the odometer is not that lofty of a goal nowadays no matter what oil you use.
Also, there's also lots of evidence the synthetic thing is just like higher octane gas... many people swear it makes cars run longer and better but alot of it is a placebo effect. In fact, I remember reading a recent article somewhere that some synthetics arent really man made anymore. It does no harm, but I don't think it makes the huge difference everyone swears by. Maybe paying more for synthetic is just like me doing oil changes every 5k on the dot... I cannot show material evidece that my car runs better because of it but it makes me feel better.
I suspect though that changing oil at 5000 and syn might give the same results after extended driving tests though, to be honest. Syns two advantages are -to me- half as many oil changes. (I change oil on 8 family/extended family vehicles.) The other is that if bad things happen on the road like a loss of coolant, there is less chance of engine damage and the car can be run a few miles more to get to a location of safety. Important for my wife/daughter. Syns protect better under adverse conditions.
I do agree with your blindfolded chimps though.
1. We are wasting incredible amounts of oil (a limited resource) due to the fact that we somehow believe that changing the oil more frequently reduces wear on the engine more than extended synthetic drains.
2. Changing the oil more frequently does not protect you in any way, shape, or form from damage that occurs from foreign substances in the oil such as water and/or fuel, and has no credible evidence that it will reduce wear any more than extended drains.
You have no proof that your oil changes are protecting your engine other than the fact that if your engine runs 150,000 miles, you'll swear it was the oil changes, even though some goober who changed his oil every 20,000 because he was lazy also ran 150,000 miles in his car.
Changing at 5,000 "seems" OK to you, but how do you know if that is too long or too short? How do you know if the bearings are wearing prematurely because the engine might not be balanced quite right? How do you know if your air filter is providing sufficient filtration? How do you know if you have a small head gasket leak? How do you know if the additives in your oil are still preventing oxidation and your oil is lubricating to spec?
I know these things on my engine because I do oil analysis with my extended drains of once a year. And guess what? It doesn't cost me anymore than your 5,000 mile changes! And, I'd rather have my on-board computer nag me than my engine nagging me when it dies!
BTW, I commend you at least for changing the oil at 5K and not 3K which is totally ridiculous unless your running the Dakar rally everyday. If you are using recycled oil, then I applaud you even more.
rcarboni: No, I don't have concrete proof that 5000 is the magic number except that I go by what I've heard from experiened mechanics. I also change my air filter and other wear and tear parts on a regular basis. Like I said, I cant say definitively that 5000 miles is perfect for me. But based on what mechanics and others who would know have said, it seems like a nice compromise to me between appropriate maintenance and conservation. I must admit, I wouldn't mind doing an oil alysis and would probly have it done at some point when I have the disposable income (impoverished college student here...every dollar counts) But it still wouldn't change my 5000 mile intervals unless it showed that I needed to do it even more often. If the oil came out clean, I would take that to mean I should change nothing. My first instinct would not be to stretch it any further between chages. Besides, many of the scenarios you cite seem not to have much to do with oil change frequency anyway. It would be usful to know such things, but I don't see how there is much you could do in the way of preventative maintenance to stop them from happening, other than the air filter thing.
And I agree 5000 is better than 3000.
So now I don't even bother with manual recommendations on oil changes even if under warranty. I am so confident I just change it around one a year.
I consider myself an "experienced mechanic", and I'm telling you that 5K changes are meaningless. Now you have a new opinion.
If you are trying to stretch your budget, then you are a perfect candidate for extended oil changes and analysis! I pay $80 a year per vehicle with analysis. That's less than $7 a month, and here's the more important factor: I'm running the highest quality oil in my engines and not some dino sludge that barely meets the requirements of an oil. My oil (Amsoil) also guarantees it's protection and longevity - can you say that about your oil? If you're concerned about protection, what makes more sense?
You kids these days!
6 quarts of Amsoil 0w-30 Series 2000 @ $8 = $48
4 filters (usually between $4-5, sometimes lower on sale) = $20
oil analysis = $18
Total = $86
Per 1000 miles = $4.30
Obviously, the more miles you put on your car in a year, the more you save with extended drains.
average volume per vehicle=4.5 qts ==> $4.50
average filter cost ==> $3.80
total per oil change ==> $8.30
ridiculous, short 3K average change
period converted to cost perK........................... ==> $2.77
that does not include my $200 in labor...lol
You use oil that costs $1 a quart???!!!! You are a brave man my friend! You better change at 1k!
I've gone 6,000 on synthetic under severe conditions without any problem. And at least this time of the year the type of driving you do is definitely severe service on most cars. Extensive driving in the heat with the AC fits the bill.
Go 5,000, analyze it and see how the oil is holding up. As long as you aren't under warranty, if it turns out good, you may want to try to extend it.
I always change filters at 3,000 however.
We were getting realistic and comparing the costs per 1000 miles, not yearly expenses. Nice try. You lose again. Sorry. :^~
I shop carefully and always stock my ample shelves in advance. I can buy the good name oil company brews for under a buck a jug all day long.
And I do change at 1K on my Valkyrie motorcycle.
!^)
1 Amsoil Oil Filter 7.25
Total $26.83 / 7,500 miles = $3.58/1000 miles driven
My daughters car
96 Mystique 4 cyl 4.5 quarts at $6.25/quart (Amsoil 0W30) =28.12
1 Pure One Oil Filter (Amsoil did nto work for this car) = 5.99
1 Pure One filter at 6 months 5.99
1/2 quart of oil for fitler change 3.13
Total $43.23/12,000=$3.60/1000 miles
Opportunity cost of not getting under car (or driving to a quick lube) two more times (if I changed at 3000) hassle and time, well, one hour/change at $40/hour = $80.
I'm just trying to clarify your information. I would agree that anyone who only puts 6,000 miles on their car per year could probably save money over extended drains. However, I would argue that if this low mileage were in effect, then the vehicle is most likely making many short trips, and either the lower-quality oil should be changed at very short intervals anyway (3 months), or only a high-quality synthetic should be used.
You can only compare cost per 1000 miles if you compare like protection. Don't you agree? Otherwise, I could say that I only put 3000 per year on my vehicle, change the oil once with the cheapest filter and oil, and it only cost me $8 ($2.67 per 1000). On the other hand, I could also say that I drove 35,000 miles per year using Amsoil and it cost me $80 (2.30 per 1000). Hmmm, the extended drain is now less expensive AND provides better protection. Ok, that wasn't my original thought, but I like this scenario better.
Extended drains will be less expensive when more miles are recorded, but more expensive with less miles. It's just not a fair cost comparison against a fixed mileage schedule.
Any opinions? Should I change it more often? Or is even once a year just wasting oil? FWIW, I did change the oil but not the filter once. But anyone who's ever had to change those obnoxious drop-in cannister filters would understand ;-)
*****
Hey, do you run Delsey in the DeSoto, or use a drop in cartridge? Ain't them cannisters a mess? (:^{
Rest assured that I understand acid development in crankcases that are chronically short hauled. Other than that, there is little cryptic in the goings on of storing oil in a crankcase versus storing it on a shelf. If you feel there is scientific factuality backing the idea of changing oil in not more than three months (in every case, regardless), I'll stand still to hear you out. The operant word is SCIENTIFIC. Horse feathers are not scientific, they are mythical. !^}
I don't mind you thinking of 3K miles as overkill. That means I am not taking any risks of waiting too long, eh?
Anyway, I don't believe in the 3 month change either. I don't use inferior dino oils, so time limits do not apply. Hey, was that another baiting? hehehe.
I honestly think that the SH, SJ, and SL(?) standards are such that not a lot is gained in engine protection by using today's most popular synthetics. For those that enjoy lubricant analysis and tracking, it may be worthwhile, as a challenging venture. For those of us that do the entire process in our own garages, dino is very satisfactory.
Then, I use much of the relatively clean oil drained out of such vehicles/equipment to top off old beaters we have/had that go through oil like a quart+ each month or so. We have an old 1978 truck with a slow leak and my father's previous Grand Marquis had 130,000 on it that he took only moderate care of. The oil I was dumping into them was 99% better than the oil that was already in their crankcases.
--- Bror Jace