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But, no, I've never owned a BMW. Never could get past the test drive. They're fine cars, I'm sure. But not for me. Seems the Europeans and Japanese have different ideas about the "ultimate driving machine." I just happen to like the Japanese versions better. And I'm not surprised that the BMW is quieter than the Intrepid. It's my impression from riding in all three that the g35 is quieter than the 3 series and the 5 series. It would be nice to test them side-by-side though.
Compare to Europe. Too many great European cars over the past 40 years to name. Probably more great cars from odd marques in the pre-emission control era (e.g., Iso, Jensen, Austin-Healy, Bristol, Monteverdi) or super-marques like Ferrari, let alone BMW, MB, etc. The Italians alone have made more great car models in past 40 years than all of Asia.
Has always seemed that the Asians think cars like LS400/430 or Q45 are their ultimate driving machines. And they then have drivers. Really more ultimate passenger machines.
Wonder how much of the difference can be traced back to the European love of auto racing? Titanic struggles between marques like Auto Union and MB in 1930s. All that was and is with F1 and other type racing. LeMans. Etc. Japan lacks tracks like Nurburgring (sp?). Great venues like Monte Carlo.
I did find the options specs, and saw that seat assist is part of the premium package. There are some other item in the package that I would want (notably homelink), but would pass if the seat assist can't be disabled.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
first, europe has been producing quality cars longer than japan. that is true. but are you buying a 1920's car or a 2002 car?
second, japan has some very high quality cars. but they tend to be either luxury cars or sports cars. not too much in between. unfortunately not many of them seem to make it over here.
seems to me the bottom line is how good a car is. not how good cars from the same country were 50 years ago.
Plus you are forgetting many cars in your list of Japanese sports cars for the last 40 years: NSX, 300ZX, RX-7, Supra, Datsun 510(maybe not a sports car, but if you consider the 2002 you have to include this one), Datsun 1800 & 2000 Roadsters, etc...I know I'm forgetting some.
The late 60's Toyota was called the 2000GT
http://www.carseverything.com/content/image/10371/
I drove the G35 today. I live in Hawaii and since the Gs are built in Japan, we probably got ours before you, so I thought I'd post my impressions.
The car I drove was a base G35 with the leather package. No bose, roof, xenons, etc. Color was silver on black leather.
Exterior: B+. The rear end is still ugly, but overall the car looks very nice. Very Audi-ish, if you like that sort of thing, and I do. I particularly like the front end, which has lots of presence. The G was parked next to a QX4 sport ute and the G35 had more presence, which is hard for a car to do when parked next to a truck. If they fixed the rear it would be an A-. The BMW 3 series remains, however, the best looking car in its class, although everyone has one. Incidentally, BMW's titanium silver is nicer than the G's less metallic silver, but it could have been the lighting.
Engine bay: It has a prop rod. Lots of people were wondering. Still, the bay is nicely finished, battery is in a nice plastic compartment, color coded caps, etc.
Interior: A-. I expected it to feel a bit cheap, but was pleasantly surprised. Buttons, stalks, etc had GREAT feel. Everything made good clicking sounds, very little cheap plastic. The moving gauge panel is very cool, but no telescoping steering wheel. Two glove boxes are great, and since mmine was the non navi it had some extra storage space. Leather is nice...higher quality than the junk BMW uses, but not as nice as the Sojourner leather in the I35 and Q45, which is I think some of the finest leather this side of Jaguar. The leather quality is a lot like that in the I30, if you've been in one of those. It is perforated, but unlike some perforated leathers, still looks classy. The driver's seat has that special hump in the middle which is supposdely functional but I didn't notice any benefits. Seats are decently bolstered, but far less so than a BMW with sport seats. I have a thin frame, and found the seats to be very comfy. YMMV. The power seat controls are located on the inboard side of the seats, which is unusual. It is a great idea, and the G uses two types of rocker switch for the seats (hard to explain, but it's a very nice ergonomic arrangement). The power seats move too slowly. The seatback reclines something like 190 degrees, which I love. Bends over backwards. My current car does only 150 or so and it annoys me. Rear seat has an awesome armrest and is quite roomy. Nice seat pockets on seaet backs covered in meshy stuff, looks great. The non-prem pack car rear headrests arent adjustable.
Controls are super. The non-bose stereo sounded fabulous, altho I am no audiophile. The aluminum-look trim looked very nice, not cheap like it does in the Altima. Auto climate control set and forget worked well.
The center console is not two-tiered, which is unfortunate, but there is lots of other storage space so it's not a big deal.
The yellow gauge lgihting didn't bug me as much as I expected it to. Still, I'd have preferred another color, and the font is not as nice as the font that Honda/Acura uses (yes, I'm picky).
I LOVE the radio controls on the steering wheel.
My fav interior part was the steering wheel...it's got a tiny diameter, a thick, well padded rim, and looks great (better than in the pix). It feels like a BMW M3 wheel.
The drive:
Performance: A+: This engine is a monster. Makes a yummy growl, puts most cars to shame. At 80mph on the highway there was still TONS of power. very nice!
Handling: A- . I drove a non-sport pack car. Body roll was minimal-moderate on quick sweepers or on sharp left/right turns from a stop. Brake dive was well controlled. OVerall the handling would probably be an A with the sport pack.
Ride: A-. Bumps were very nicely damped, better than in a BMW 3 series.
Noise: Personally, I lov engine noise, and hate road noise. The G had more road noise than I'd have liked, but was still fairly quiet at 80 mph. The engine growled nicely, and I liked that.
Tranny: A. Very smooth shifts. I don't care much for the autostick, but it worked as advertised and downshifts were fairly rapid.
Fun to drive: B. This was the major disappointment. It's not that this car wasn't fun, but it still isn't at BMWs level. The main culprit is not the chassis or the engine, but the steering. The steering is three notches above a camry, one notch above a Maxima, but two notches below an IS300 or BMW 3 series. This was very unfortunate as, in an automatic car, a huge amount of sensory pleasure comes from the road feel. The G35 has road feel, but it's not all there, which is frustrating in such an otherwise well sorted car. Infiniti could have done better here. Still, the other parts of the caR (engine, chassis) compensate a lot.
OVerall: IT depends. First, for 27.9k, this is BY FAR the best car on the market. IT's an unbelievable value.
Second, it's quite roomy, so it doesn't directly compete with the 3 series. However, for those cross shopping w/ the 3er:
If you value fun-to-drive over all else, get the 3er. The BMW is still more fun, largely due to the road feel. I am a huge car enthusiast so I am having a hard time saying no to the 3er. On the other hand, I am still leaning towards the G. Why? B/c the value is so enormous. And the engine compensates a lot....a G35 is the same price as the 2.5L wimpy engine in a 325. More luxury features in the G too, and better warranty, etc.
So moral of the story:
If one of the following apply: cost is no object, space is not an issue, or fun to drive is paramount, get the BMW.
Everyone else: get the G35.
Questions? Let me know. I've tried to be as unbiased as possible (I've never owned either an Infiniti or a BMW, but I've driven many, many cars).
Very good competition for the BMW.
If anyone is interested the homelink buttons on on the rear view mirror and the BOSE sound systems is incredible. One thing, the outside mirror are pretty small. How did you like the visibility, I found it to be different from any other car I have driven, you really get a keen sense of what is around you. I only spent around 30 mins in the car so I am sure I will have alot more comments next week when I get it.
If purchasing a Canadian model for export to the US, I believe the analog KPH speedometer unit has to be replaced with a MPH unit to duplicate the appearance of a matching US model.
Noticed your list of good Japanese cars included mainly 2 doors. Did they make any great sedans--high performance all around sport sedans? I can't think of any off top of my head.
Nor am I convinced that many of the cars mentioned on your list are truly stand outs. Not sure cars like NSX, 280Z, 280ZX, 300ZX, or later RX-7s & Supras wore well or will wear well over time. (I probably should have added the diminutive Honda S800 roadster to my list of great Japanese cars.) As current or potential classics, don't hold a candle to something like Jag XK120 or E-type. Or Aston Martin DB4-6. Jensen Interceptor w/ or w/out FF.
I have a 1981 English book, Classic Sports Cars--The Postwar Years. 188 pages in 3 major sections: The Grand Marques, Lesser Luminaries, and Minor Classics. NOT a single Asian company or car in the first two categories. Datsun Z and Honda S800 are the only two that make it, and only in the 3rd category. Author omits the very limited production Toyota 2000GT (his mistake).
Is just too bad Infiniti didn't maintain its more sporty angle and learn how to promote it effectively. A 1990 Q45 was a heck of a better performance sedan than a 1999 Q41 (oops Q45). They lost focus and decided to push luxury. The old I30 was a snoozer. The interesting J30 platform wasn't seriously developed; never really had a sport package. The G20 was always underpowered. Now the G35 comes along and there is no initial manual transmission nor serious sport package. Look at the tire sizes!
(I readily concede the Japanese make great motorcycles and micro-cars.)
Can't wait to see the horror on G35 owners' eyes when they go to show off their new car at office, in front yard, or elsewhere. Somebody will want to see the engine and bay. You'll have to open hood. Then that person will either howl with laughter or snicker as they enjoy watching you prop up the hood with a cheap rod. That'll impress 'em!!! NOT! But Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio owners won't feel jealous. Right?
How come I picture lots of new G35 owners holding up their own hoods using their bare hands the entire (SHORT) time they show off their engines and bays to friends, family, neighbors, and co-workers? And can you picture a row of G35s at car show, dealer's lot, or in service bays all lined up with their hoods fully open and their prop rods proudly glistening!?! What a grand sight that'll be!
2) The hood has a prop rod?!?!
Guess I'll have to take a look at CTS or CLS (LOL!)
There is no defense for a prop rod on a MY 2003 $30,000 sports sedan from INFINITI. Kia, yes. Hyundai, maybe. But Infiniti???
No full brochures, the rep. said he'd have them next week "a week before the car arrives" He took my info said he'd call me and drop one in the mail.
I got the "Future Think" brochure with the tech stuff.
He said 6 months for the manual.
Not exactly sure where your coming from with the comments as it almost seems like you're trying to bait people on this board into an argument. I'm actually of the opinion that Infiniti/Nissan made the right call on saving weight and cost by going with the prop rod for the hood. While it might only amount to a five or ten pound weight savings and a few dollars on the wallet, these things add up. Overall it looks like the G35 is bucking the trend of adding pounds with new vehicles. Bringing a mid-size entry level luxury vehicle in at 3335 lbs (close to 330i or IS300 weight) while offering more exterior size and interior space is to be commended.
The new 2002 A4 actually added a couple hundred pounds even though they switched from an iron to an aluminum block for the engine. While a lot of the weight gain clearly went into the body structure and rigidity of the chassis, it does mute some of the hp gains from the new 3.0 engine.
While struts do simplify raising the hood (especially at night when you need to jump a car at 30 below), it doesn't add to the driving experience. Also, most people I know that want to look under the hood could give a %#$@ about whether the hood is held up by struts, prop rod, or hot air. There more interested in looking at what's underneath and how easy is it to do maintenance (plugs, oil change, check fluids, etc). If the neighbors are embarrassed by prop rods, I'm probably not inviting them over to check out my car.
It sounds like the G35 will only make this segment more competitive, forcing all manufacturers to improve their offerings. Infiniti needs a volume builder for their franchises and it looks like they may have it (if you can get over the rear end). Its just too bad they didn't bring it out with a manual or I might have waited another couple of months to purchase. Such is life.
If this car is the Japanese Bmw I think it will be I'll be happy as hell and I have no urge to rally with it so it does not have to be a 330i, plus the price is about right what it offers.
My Mercedes definitely needed hood struts, since it spent at least 45 days in the shop, at the dealer within the first 11 months of ownership.
http://www.carsdirect.com/home
what that has to do with the quality (or lack of quality) of a g35 i for one do not understand.
http://www.carseverything.com/content/image/10367
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Which explains delay between the intro of the auto G35 and the manual version.
Thanks,
Jim J.
I was leaning to buying the ES 300 but as gorgeous as it is, it was not a fun car to drive. I was one of the first buyers of a 1972 240Z (2nd year of the Z)but have not owned a Japanese product since although I loved that Z. Like us all, I too am anxious to test drive the G-35 and if it is all those on this forum indicate, I will not hesistate to buy one.
I think we are all looking forward to gabman's experience.
I'm pretty much in love with the G35, esp when the 6sp man. comes out. (Which it better).
But HWY fuel economy has me worried. I expect to get at least 27-28 mpg with cruise on at 70-75mph.
If people have to go 60 with A/C off to break 25 I will be VERY disappointed. To the point of not buying it. I'll wait till engine is broken in about 10k miles for VQ with synth oil.
I understand this is not an economy car, BUT I consider decent fuel economy a performance criteria.
The automatic has somewhat low enough final drive ratio. They should've done what Acura did and put a real steep 5th gear. That's the point of 5 gears is having the best of both worlds.
With 6 spd manual even more so. 6th gear should a pure highway economy gear. NOT a click over 2000 rpms @70. Maybe even a little taller 2000@75. They can make 5th a little shorter, as down shift from from 6 to 5 would be very easy.
I have 2001 Pathfinder 5spd and it turns about 3000 rpms @76mph. It has plenty of power there and rarely downshift to pass.
Considering the weight and drag of G35, 2000rpms@75 will actually not have bad power.
They have to get rpms down to minimze valve-train friction which kills efficiency of DOHC v6 engines.
Actually that is a fundamental problem with DOHC v6 engines is they have coefficient of highest valve train friction, compared to any other layout.
This is one reason why GM hasn't widely adopted it. GM's old 3.8 V6 gets 30 mpg HWY...
Please listen Infinity,
Exzave