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Comments
At about the same time I read that new Cadillac CTS designed to compete in this segment is offering a manual from the start. Much to my surprise, I will need to look at a Cadillac, but will likely pass due to possible odd styling, somewhat weak engine, and possible issues with GM quality and interiors.
two. why do people think it will be as cheap as they are saying? i am hearing $30-$35k. the altima is going for around $30k. good luck getting the g35 for a similar price.
third. i've seen a lot of cars mentioned. bmw's (both 3 and 5), cadillac, lincoln ls, and more. people are looking for manual sport sedans, not fwd. what about audi? a4? s4? a6 and s6? not rwd, but awd. better in some people's minds. maybe worse in others.
Although I would still lean towards a BMW 530i 5-speed to replace the Maxima, I would very much like to give the G35 a chance to persuade me otherwise.
So, please Infiniti, we are in our mid 40's, have two young girls and now own three vehicles with a total of 16 "shift your own" gears between them. Hot rod enthusaists, we are not. But an auto-G35 is a non starter in our household. We'll give Infiniti a chance to go against the 5-series, if you do.
"In addition to manual and automatic tranmissions, Infiniti might offer a toroidal continuously variable transmission with six-speed function for U.S. models, providing a few low temperature issues can be resolved. We can also expect to see a two-door version sometime in 2002."
The fact that the official Infinity web site links to it would seem to lend it credibility. I take the article to imply that Infinity does intend to offer a manual and that a CVT is a possibility. This gives some reason for hope to those of us that believe our movement of the shift lever should be considered a command, not a suggestion. Note to Infiniti: Sooner would be better than later!
On the other hand, the only competitive cars I'd consider are the BMW 5 series and the Audi A6, both of which are RWD or AWD and come with manuals. They're both (much) more expensive than the Lincoln and probably more than the G35 as well, so the G35 looks like my most likely next car, unless they opt out of the manual.
The Lexus IS300 was a possibility until it turned out to have been designed by boy racers, and is quite small inside to boot.
Bring on the clutch!
I'm not sure who makes Honda's 6-speed manual transmissions but they have been offering 6-speeds in both the S2000 and the Acura RSX Type-S. I believe the Maxima SE also is already offered with a 6-speed manual.
I agree though, if the G35 is NOT offered with a manual then Nissan will lose a large part of the potential market with this car. How can they try and compete with BMW in the "sports sedan" segment without offering a stick shift? True car enthusiasts buy BMW's with stick shifts, only yuppies who buy BMWs for status or image buy the automatics so they can keep one hand on their all important cell phones at all times. If Nissan is serious about making a "performance sedan" to try and knock BMW off of its perch (and steal some sales in the meantime), it absolutely MUST offer a manual transmission in the G35. I too am very interested in this car but would only consider it as an alternative to a BMW if it came with a stick. If it's automatic only then it'll just get lost in the crowd and get thrown onto that heap known as "Japanese near-luxury sports sedan-wannabees" along with the Acura TL, Lexus ES300, Mazda Millenia, Mitsubishi Diamante, even their own Infiniti I-35, etc. Nissan really needs to differentiate themselves by making an impact on the market with a high-performance, high-HP, RWD, manual sports sedan that would be a true alternative to the German incumbent instead of just pretending to compete in this category. So Nissan, how serious are you?
QUOTE: "The biggest difference between drivetrains of the Z and the G35 was the G35’s five-speed automatic. It cried out for a manual transmission, but that could have been because we drove the Z only moments before. Even though the automatic has a sport shift mode it was still an automatic. That aside, it was surprisingly fun."
Regards,
DL
Regards,
DL
My wife's '00 323iA has BMW's DSC system. My '98 540i manual only has TC; later 540iMs have DSC.
Nissan was almost gone but they decided to figure out what the public wants and deliver it. And thank god it wasn't a K-car. Yes, Nissan is picking up the ball that BMW ignored and running with it. And that ball is a value oriented performance sedan. Lexus dropped the ball with the lack of a proper overdrive manual (.85:1). No cigar. So the G35 six-speed will be a winner if the price is less than 40k and hopefully less. With the Nissan "universal" 3.5 liter V-6, they will have the economics to possibly do it. All car manufacturers have to do is to do it right and keep doing it. There is no reason that BMW has to own the performance sedan game. Nissan can do it. It's only a matter of will. And by summer, they will have all the parts. Get in line. And the automatic G35 doesn't do anything for me. You can buy any # of slush box sedans. Yawn.
Only 2% of the people who bought LS's chose the manual (that'd be us hard-core types), in addition to which, the future of the manual is very much in doubt. The fond hope of many of us when we bought the car was that, while the first-year car only included a manual on the V6, in time the V8 would also sport a manual. Guess again, Bucky. Lincoln appears to be completely uninterested in putting a manual with the V8, and whether it will remain an option on the V6 is very much in question.
Actually, whether it's a 6 or 8 is pretty much irrelevant if the engine makes 250 hp, more or less. If there's a manual transmission, rear-wheel drive and approximate 50% front-to-rear weight distribution, sign me up. The LS with an additional 40 - 50 hp and a manual (with the LSD Stan so dearly wishes for) would be a really nice ride, but don't hold your breath.
Oh, and it would be nice if the paint didn't look like it was put on with a roller and the interior bits didn't fall off. Having owned Nissan products in the past, I'm thinking the fit/finish issues won't be a problem. The LS is wanting in this category.
All that said, the G35 looks like the next hot prospect, at least for me. The Audi A6 turbo/quattro and the BMW 530 are both worthy prospects as well, but European reliability has never met the Asian standard, and that to me (I actually buy cars and keep them for years) is a big deal. However, if the G35 continues to come only with an automatic, all bets are off. I could have bought a GS300 several years ago; I didn't because it only comes with (you guessed it) an automatic.
FWIW.
So if you want to limit your automotive choices to vehicles that offer manuals be my guest. I prefer to look at the whole package: price, performance, style economy of operation and interior comfort and styling. That's how I make my decision. Good luck in making yours.
BTW, I drive a V6 Mitsubishi Galant Auto. with Leather. The car is uncannily similar in styling to a BMW 5 Series and probably offers 90% of the handling, power, comfort and looks at about 50% of the price.
My buddy just got a new Galant and I drove and inspected it last Thursday. Impressive for the bucks. 3.0 liter V-6! I saw one thing I would immediately change. I would order a trunk mount battery kit from that big mail order speed shop for around $40.00 (a bargain) and get that heavy battery moved out of the high and too far forward location above the engine. That has got to effect handling. By the way, Mitsu sales went up dramatically in the last two months.
I never thought too much about certified pre-owned until I happened to be attracted to a BMW ad. 3.9 percent financing and they'd make first payment. That ended 11/30/01. Heck, now I drive a '98 540i 6-speed. Sure, it has a bit over 50,000 miles, but is warrantied pretty well for another 2 years up to 100,000 miles. And the driving pleasure is almost too sinful!
2. If Detroit actually built more than a handful of decent all around high performance cars with manual transmissions that were both affordable and well built AND took the time & effort to market them properly, many more American buyers would expect and demand them. BMW took the time to develop its cars over decades. Focusing in on all around useable performance.
Notice how Detroit has spent the past 15 years pouring vast quantities of cash into their cash cows: minivans, pick-up trucks, and now SUVs?!? All that cash wasn't used to make a single sedan design much better. Ford's T-bird SuperCoupe with turbocharged I-4 and then supercharged V-6 and 5-speed manual is gone! Merkur XR4ti died quickly! Ford Taurus SHO 5-speed manual died an ignomious death after being replaced by a V-8 automatic SHO! Chevy never put a manual in the '94-'96 Impala SS or the 1980s 2-dr Monte Carlo SS/Pontiac Grand Prix/Buick Grand National!
3. cayennered1... Nice try. But I can assure you of one thing, your loaded Mitsu Galant V-6 (GTZ?) does NOT offer anywhere near the handling, power, or comfort of my 540i 6-speed. (Nor do I think it comes close to a 530i 5-speed.) Looks are another matter. Mitsu Galant and Lincoln LS both did nice job trying to copy 5 Series. But you can still tell the original from the derivatives.
Also they are claiming msrp of several K under 30k like 28ish for the 350Z , i think if the G35 follows suit , and a 6 speed it will be a winner.
DL
At the infiniti website there is a reprint of the C&D article online. Go to future models. There may be others available I am unaware of.
riez
The 540i 6sp is sweet and buying one like you did doesn't break your wallet. The extended warranty is pretty much required on those. A friend paid about $2k to BMW several years ago for an extended warranty on a used 540 and he has cashed it several times over during the time he has had it. One reason I am sniffing around right now with Infiniti, BMW, etc. is warranty is up on my current ride....but my wife just says I am always looking for an excuse to swap cars.
Sure a BMW 3 Series is a fine car and available with a manual, but find one at around 30 grand with 250hp, 112in. wheelbase and Infiniti butt kissing service. It's not going to happen. You'll pay thousands more for comperable performance, be in a relatively cramped cabin and have less reliability. If having a manual trans. is more important to you than the above than by all means go for it.
As for me, I crave comfort, reliability and performance at a reasonable price a lot more than an opportunity to exercise my left leg in bumper to bumper traffic.
I say let the numbers do the talking. BMW 330i manual may not have 250 plus HP, but its acceleration figures are very, very good. What will those numbers be for G35 automatic? Doubt it will be better. Question will be how much slower.
cayenneredred1... If you crave comfort, reliability, performance, and price, then why aren't you driving an I-35 Sport automatic, Maxima SE automatic or manual, or Altima 3.5 SE automatic or manual? Each can be loaded up quite nice. And you can get 'em for around or under $30,000.
riez makes an excellent point. There are plenty of other options out there...including the Infiniti I-35...that have the auto tranny. Other than a few more HP and styling, what will distinguish it from the I-35. Also, you can add the Acura TL-S and Lexus ES300 to that list as well.
But for the person that wants a RWD or AWD sports sedan with a manual tranny, the options are few. BMW owns this market. Check their sales numbers over the last 3 years and the growth they have experienced. Certainly there are those that buy it for the badge (and probably buy the auto tranny)...but there is a large enthusiast market that buy it for performance that prefer to row their own gears. To ignore this group with the G35 would be a marketing mistake for Infiniti and it certainly ignores what I want in a sports sedan.
cayenneredred1...you say well then go buy the BMW....and I might do that again next year. But I like competition in the market place and appreciate value and performance over a badge. So I like other options to consider beyond BMW and Audi (Sorry but IS300 does nothing for me). Infiniti may have butt kissing service, but it can't be any better than the service I received at the BMW dealer. And my M3 was totally free of any reliability problems.
Same reason why everyone else is on this board. We're all waiting for the newly introduce G35. The Maxima is outdated, and the I35 is the same as Maxima. The Altima is nice, but lack the luxury amenities.
I prefer not to shift if I'm driving a luxury sport sedan. However, if I was driving a Civic or WRX, yes, I prefer a manual.
I'm not saying that Infiniti should ignore the manual for the "enthusiast". Perhaps, a second year model is more appropriate. Take a wait and see on the 1st year production of the auto. Then decide if there's a market to compete with BMW.
If the styling is right, and the price is right, G35 will do extremly well, regardless of no manual.
A great car can create its own market.
Like what, (while driving)?
HiC