Unfortunately, the vast majority of people buy cars with automatics. This is even more true in the luxury and "sport sedan" segments ( I saw a brand new NSX parked at the beach this summer with an automatic transmission in it!). Most Maximas sold are automatics ( by something like 3 to 1) . Infinity is merely following the market. The biggest initial demand will be for the slush box. They know the enthusiasts will wait.
<<Check out all the articles when the Lexus IS300 was introduced. Darn near every article mentioned the lack of a manual transmission option and many writers clearly took Lexus to task for that oversight. Lexus at least corrected and added the SportCross but Infiniti should've learned from Lexus' big mistake!>>
Well, with the intro of manual on the IS300 (I mean Corolla, hehe), what did it do to Lexus sales? Nothing! In fact, sales are still plummeting for IS300. LOL
If Infiniti, just like Lexus, comes out without the manual it just sends a message that the G35 is just another sedan. Lexus, I think, further compounded their problems with the weird ad campaign about people "who just aren't right". I, frankly, wouldn't drive an IS300 if you gave one to me.
Someone earlier had it right. The 530 may be low on horsepower, but with low weight and higher torque they still move. (I think BMW is pretty conservative with the numbers.) Look at the 540. Something like 280hp, but over 300 lb.ft. of torque.
Yeah, you can't make much of a rational arguement for a manual transmission, but do you think that Acura makes money on the NSX. If Infiniti wants the BMW mystique, they can't make the Lexus mistake.
You can't blame Infiniti for getting it wrong, their marketing is based in Fenton, MO. (You can almost hear the dueling banjos.) At least that's the return address on the letter I got.
It seems like the Japanesse just chase the numbers the HP, Weight distribution and 0-60 times, as most car buyers do.
To the guy who says that some car at half the price of a BMW is just as good, probably thinks money is wasted on a Harley. If people think BMWs are overpriced, by something else and giggle your way to the bank.
I am interested in a G35, but I know nobody is going to come out and say "WOW, Cool Infiniti". I want a BMW540, heck I'd settle for a 530, but I don't have the cash.
If the G35 had a manual transmission, good dynamics, and a sun roof for around 30, we might be able to do a deal.
If Infiniti wants to create a performance image for itself, it needs to offer a manual on the G35 from the beginning. Heck, you can get a manual on the Altima and the Maxima, both of which are targeted toward a more mainstream market than the G35, so why can't Infiniti offer a manual in its new sport sedan?
The 350Z gets the six-speed first, and it's not in production yet. That's the reason for the Manual delay. In the case of the W55 IS300 five-speed, they also had to build it from scratch. At least the Japanese can still build a Manual tranny. Everyone else uses an outside supplier such as Getrag or Tremec. The five-speed Getrag has no overdrive and that's a serious handicap. But then the IS300 W55 has an almost worthless .85:1 fifth. Toyota's old W58 five-speed had a real overdrive (.73:1) as used in the Supra and Cressida. The IS300 turns too high an rpm in cruise as a result. Interestingly, Lexus reserved 25% of production for the Manual IS300. I haven't seen figures for actual Manual % sales yet. BMW sells about 15% of it's cars in Manual mode. Of course, most are two-doors like the M3, not 4 door sedans.
Like a lot of others here I want what the G35 offers only if it has the 6 speed. Having said that though I understand their hurry to release the G35 in Auto pending the availability of the manual. Autos will outsell the manuals by a vast margin. Not 3 to 1, try 8 or 10 to 1. If the car is to be a success it will be so because people who want it with an auto are going to buy it. The rest of us will just have to wait. I am willing to wait though. The manual is being stressed tested still in prototypes of the 350Z and it is not the same as the one in the Max hopefully, which has been criticized for being "sloppy". I'll wait for the bugs to get ironed out just as I'll wait for first run production bugs to work out of the overall G35/skyline platform. I just hope the wait is worth it.
BTW: I like BMW's too but I'm not fooling myself that they specially cater to "performance" or "driver-enthusiast" market all that much more than anyone else. Even with BMW's, the vast majority sold in this country have autos. Some, in fact, ONLY come with an auto. Go check the BMW Pre-owned inventory at their CPO website. Want a 3 or 5 series wagon with a stick? Out of the 55 wagons within a 500 mile radius of So Cal there is not a single one with a stick. The numbers are not much better with the 3 series sedan: Out of 80 in a 50 mile radius of my zip code only 13 were manuals. How Many of those had the sport package? Six. 6/80. Do we really expect any thing more of Infiniti buyers? I don't.
BTW iamwhoiam: Harleys ARE junk. No motorcycle enthusiast would ever buy one. Over priced, under engineered, underpowered, overweight, 30 year old technology with marginall reliability. Status symbols for brand name-slave poseurs. I am in awe of their marketing though. If GM could sell their dreck as well as Harley they would still have a 50% share of the car market.
I've looked at my neighborhood Infiniti dealership a couple of times lately and haven't seen any manual G20s. That car really needs one too. The Volvo dealership next door had no manual S60s, only a C70. A Volvo salesman told me that very few people want to shift their luxury car, so they don't carry them. So even if they do produce a manual G35, they will be few and far between. They may even have to be special ordered.
Also, Infiniti has a special lease deal on G20s, but only for automatics, so you have to pay more for a manual than an automatic. This is really frustrating.
QUOTE from previous post: "Well, with the intro of manual on the IS300 (I mean Corolla, hehe), what did it do to Lexus sales? Nothing! In fact, sales are still plummeting for IS300. LOL"
Exactomundo!!! Lexus blew their chance to introduce a real sports sedan with a manual last year. By having only an automatic on the IS300 upon introduction, the magazine reviews panned the car. This immediately shed a negative light on the IS300 in potential buyer's minds. Thus, buyers have already crossed the car off of their lists and out of their minds. Introducing the manual a year later is too late. People have already forgotten about this car. All the marketing buzz built up upon the car's introduction is long gone. Lexus lost its golden opportunity to impact the reviewers and the enthusiasts. As someone else said: You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. e.g., Hyundai will never compete with Porsche.
Let's hope the good folks at Infiniti don't make the same mistake as their arch rival Lexus.
I never got to test drive a Manual Lincoln LS. I had to order one blind-off the numbers. Found one in Orange County (L.A.) which had been sitting on the dealer's lot there for four months. Yes, the LM dealer's response was "who wants to shift a luxury car?" 92% of cars sold in America are Autos. 88% of the cars in Europe are "standard" transmission equipped. Of course, I laugh everytime I pass the tranny shop two blocks away. A 2 to 3 grand replacement is no fun, and chances are it's going to happen if you keep an auto car very long, because most owners don't change their mineral fluid often enough or go to a synthetic fluid (the best way to go). 25% of IS300 production is Manuals, and I think that is optimistic. BMW sells about 15% manuals here, much higher in two doors than four doors. I'm glad the M3 has a six-speed Getrag only. Separates the drivers from just those with money. So don't blame Nissan for the auto first. Manual drivers are hard core and a specialty market that some manufacturers almost ignore (GM). Only about 2% of Lincoln LS sales are manuals. I bet it's even smaller for Cadillac's new CTS.
1. 68bullitt... Right on target! You wrote my response. You only get one chance to make a splash. Intro of IS300 left a thud. We all started looking elsewhere from the get-go. And they blew it by making it way too boyracerish all around!!! Hoping G35 doesn't make that mistake.
2. iamwhoam... Think we are soul brothers. I, too, didn't think I could afford a 540i 6-speed. I used to dream and then ponder trying to buy a brand new '03 G35 or '02 330i manual. Then I started seeing ads for Certified Pre-Owned BMWs. Then I started pricing '98 and '99 CPO 540i 6-speeds. Guess what? I bought one! And I got 3.9 percent financing for 48 months with BMW Finance making the first payment. Comes with a pretty comprehensive 2 year/50,000 mile warranty, including Roadside Assistance. With its loaded original options, my '98 540i manual had an MSRP near $59,000. I paid a bit over $35,000.
3. hicaira... BMW's CPO info on their web site is outstanding. I used it to find the exact 540i 6-speed I wanted. Was 590 miles away but I worked the deal over the internet (thanks to Jim Franzen, Enterprise BMW, Appleton, Wisconsin.) When I ran a 500 mile radius search here in midwest I found a nice selection of '98-'01 530i and 540i manuals within the price range I specified. Too bad Infiniti's site isn't as comprehensive.
1. riez: You're livin' the dream! How did the price at the dealer compare to private sellers 540s? Every time I look at some of the pre-owneds I get sticker shock. I can't wait until the 530s come off lease in a year or two.
2 hicaira: Harley's are crap? I do agree about their marketing. GM I think is hopeless unless Luntz (sp?) gets production to stop designing cars (Everything seems designed to be made easily, not be aesthetic). I heard he recently sent out a tome about design has to improve, I think the area he selected was dashboards.
I hope the G35 ends up being the car that enthusiasts want. I want to see the debut ads about the car with that Nissan engineer saying something like "Enthusiasts wanted a 5 speed manual transmission, so we gave them a 6-speed."
<<By having only an automatic on the IS300 upon introduction, the magazine reviews panned the car. This immediately shed a negative light on the IS300 in potential buyer's minds>>
Positive or negative reviews from magazine do not translate to good or bad sales. The fact of the matter is that the IS300 (oops, I meant Corolla) is a juvenile looking car. Styling, pricing, and features sell cars. Pricing and features in the IS are very attractive. Unfortunately for Lexus, they bombed on the boy racer appearance. Not even a manual can save the IS. What's up with the aftermarket looking tail lights, Euro antenna, and fancy aftermarket wheels? Cheesy looking. Think about it, Yuppies drive conservative sports sedan like BMW. They don't want to be "blend" in with the Honda boys, which is what you get if you drive the IS.
As for G35, the ultimate buying decision will be pricing. We already know that the G35 has 255hp, and the styling looks nice (from the brochure). It's a matter of execution from Marketing.
As I said before, if I'm paying $35K for a luxury sports sedan, I want the engine to shift by itself. I'm beyond the years where I shouldn't be shifting anymore...especially in heavy traffic in Orange County, CA. I want to ride in style..one hand on the wheel, and the other hand with my batmobile phone.
QUOTE from previous post: "Positive or negative reviews from magazine do not translate to good or bad sales."
I'm not so sure about that so I beg to differ. I think one of the main reasons BMW sales have been so strong even at their relatively high prices is because every car magazine on the face of the earth kisses the ground its tires roll over. I believe this consistent praise from people that are accepted to be car experts has definitely drawn people into BMW showrooms, enthusiast and non-enthusiasts alike. People with the means to buy a BMW are usually smart enough not to believe every marketing message coming from the advertising world so they're not going to believe that BMWs are "The Ultimate Driving Machine" just because BMW says they are. But when all the car reviewers (aka experts) say it is over and over again, people start believing it and then open up their wallets. Many people still care about image, especially if they know their neighbors, friends, and co-workers also read car magazines.
Likewise, I can't think of any car reviewers that liked the G20. Thus, poor sales. Of course, the lack of power didn't help.
Last month I purchased a Honda S2000 as a third car. Kept our Nissan Maxima which I expect to replace in a year or two. I read as many reviews and reports about the S2000 and it's competitors before I bought. Nevertheless, if I had to honestly assign a percentage to my purchase decision factors, they would be:
30% - Performance/fun. Based primarliy on what my seat of the pants told me about how I liked the acceleration and handling feel of the car. But also based partly upon what I read in reviews, since I didn't test drive any cars to their true limits.
30% - Overall looks. Aesthetics and ergonomics are important to me. Some very worthy performace competitors just didn't do it for me (BMW Z 3.0 /M Roadster). This is totally personal, nobody else can influence me as to what I like relative to looks.
30% - Quality / Value. The sedan replacements we were considering went up to $50k+. However, the S2000 at $32k made the third car option much easier than a $55k Boxter S would have. The dependability and quality of fit and finish of Honda didn't hurt either. Certainly the automotive press gives Honda high marks and that factored into my decision, since I can't personally poll every other owner.
10% - Image. I actually didn't want the "marquee" image associated with the Porsche, Mercedes or to a lesser extent BMW on my "fun" car. It would have made me feel more guilty about splurging. The fact that it's "just a Honda" is fine with me. However, I must admit to some slight ego in having a limited production car that's relatively unique. The automotive press probably reinforces for me slightly the desireable image of the S2000.
Now, with the above factors, I would say that my own unbiased direct assessment was about 80% of the final decision and the automotive press and other information sources probably had a 20% influence factor.
So I certainly agree with you, the press reviews do have an impact. And when I go to replace our sedan, they may be even more of a factor, since there are many more close competitors in this market segment. Great reviews of the new G35 will probably influence me to give it more serious consideration than I might otherwise have done. On the other hand, ho-hum reviews (and lack of a manual transmission) will likely keep me thinking BMW.
iamwhoam... Keep running locates thru BMW NA's Certified Pre-Owned web site locator. I can't say enough about their web site when it comes to looking for cars and learning about financing. And expand your distance search parameter. Wouldn't you be willing to drive 500 or 1,000 miles to get exactly what you wanted at the right price? And check out the financing info on the site. BMW pretty much treats their CPOs like brand new when it comes to leasing and financing deals.
The private party and non-BMW (therefore non-CPO) 540i's and 528i's I saw in my area were initially about $2,000-$3,500 less expensive. But that is based on ad price. Of course, you can negotiate the price of everything. The BMW dealer's first serious offer dropped about $1,000 off the posted price. Then we got serious about negotiating. (If you want to keep payments down, you can get an interesting balloon buy option on CPOs, but the interest rate is higher.)
Now is a good time to buy a decent pre-owned vehicle. Flood of trade ins during the October-November new car sales crush.
Maybe introducing the G35 in April is a smart move by Infiniti. Things might be more back to normal by then. Detroit will (likely?) have discontinued the massive interest rate subsidies (at least the 0.0 percent offers) and the used market will have some time to sell off the late model low mile used cars.
The G35 will initially be released next spring in sedan form with the 5 speed auto only. A coupe (with an available manual transmission) will be released in the fall. A manual will become available on the sedan the following year.
By the time the manual is available, any first-year glitches are likely to be understood and eliminated, and the car should be ready for prime time.
Being an old (is there any other kind) 240-Z guy, the second and third years the car was on the market ('71 & '72) turned out to be the best they ever made. In '73 the major-league air pollution laws caused the world's most complicated carbeurators to be implemented, and by '74 the 260-Z was out.
Just wondering where you got the information regarding the availablity of a coupe version? I just called Infiniti and they told me that there are no plans whatsoever to introduce a coupe version (at least here in the U.S. I assume). They said the auto sedan will be out in April and the manual sedan will be out sometime later but he did not know exactly when. He said the brochures will be out in February. The number I called was the one in the "postcard-fold-out" intro they sent out on the G35 (I assume the same number as the G35 ads in this month's car magazines).
So at least it sounds like there will be a manual version (5 or 6 speed, I don't know) (or at least Nissan is thinking about it). Whew!!! The enthusiasts on this thread can rejoice! Our prayers have been heard by Nissan! (See, making our opinions heard on these boards actually works)
I'm disappointed about the coupe, however. That would have been an interesting alternative. If it would've looked as hot as the BMW 3-series coupe, I may have seriously considered it.
It's true that G35 will come out with G35 coupe. I know I read it somewhere. It was posted on this message board 2 months ago. It had an link on all the hot Japanese cars coming out.
68Bullitt, I can imagine the G35 Coupe version. Standard 17 or 18 inch rims, leather inteior, sports suspension, oh boy that sounds so nice!!! I hope we also get the Manual transmission, I mean, it would be a waste to not at least offer it. I LOVE this car just as much as I love the new Altima, but I got to shift my own gears, and a fake auto-manual just ain't gonna do the trick.`
Let's just say I have very reliable connections. As you can see from Nissan/Infiniti's recent or upcoming releases (Maxima, Altima, Pathfinder, I35, Spec-V, 350Z, etc.), Nissan is definitely on a performance-based path. That's why manual transmissions remain in most of these models. As you guys have pointed out, it would be foolish of Infiniti to release the G35 without ever planning a manual transmission. And if they are gunning for the BMW 3-series, it would be foolish not to release a coupe version. As for the AWD versions and CVT? Not sure. I'll let you guys know if I hear anything.
G35 is more accuratly a replacment for the now defunct J30 than anything else. But, the G20 will be eliminated with the introduction of the G35 and Infiniti will no longer compete in the low $20,000 market
Is the new "Generic" V-6 for Nissan. They are using it in all their models except the Q45. The tuning will vary, but it's such a cost saver to use basically the same engine. Toyota uses the I-Force 4 cam 32 valve V-8 in the LS430,GS,Highlander,Tundra and more. This exotic engine is so highly produced that it costs very little per engine. Detroit thinks this kind of engine is Premium and you have to limit it to expensive models. Big mistake.
Sorry, to me the G35 is kind of stodgy looking. It doesn't break any new ground. The back end of the car looks like a Toyota Echo. The rest of the car looks like the Altima. The front end is interesting but the boy racer head lights are too "hey look at me". Mercedes does the head lights so much better. BMW has nothing to worry about, it still sets the mark for sporty elegance. IMHO, Nissan is still too much in "me too" mode with the G35.
I just saw some pictures of the next generation Maxima on a site called Vince Burlapps's Car Page. The car is very stylish and in my opinion blows away the G35 looks wise. I still like the G35 but it will really depend on the dollars they charge for it. This Maxima probably will be thousands cheaper and if they don't screw up the interior I think it would be no contest between the two.
Also saw a number of other cars on the site that I had never seen before including a Mercury version of the European Mondeo. Didn't think much of the sedan but the wagon looked great. I wonder if and when this car will turn up on these shores.
Sorry I don't have the web address but you can probably find it through the search mode.
sterling: No offense, but "highly reliable sources" means nothing. This is the internet, where it means even less. About as little as "I read somewhere on some site....". Even the "reputable" sources, such as C&D spend most of their time speculating. Unless you are a Frenchmen named Goshen, I'll wait for the Nissan press release.
stanny, off topic, but you have your Toyota V8's all mixed up. The I Force is only in the Tundra. A very similar 4.7 liter V8 (on which the I Force was based) is in the Land Cruiser and LX470. The GS 430, SC430 and LS 430 use a quite different 4.3 liter V8. And the Highlander has no V8 at all. None of this detracts from your point that Toyota saves a lot of money by sharing parts across platforms and lines - but what car company doesn't?
I still stick by what I originally posted. But I agree with you that "highly reliable sources" pretty much means nothing on the Internet. I guess you can believe me when the press releases come out.
I had a Toyota Cressida for 17 years and it was before any Toyota V-8. What amazes me is that Toyota is giving the public a very sophisticated engine in many reasonably priced car, SUV and truck models. Ford reserves it's similar V-8 to the Cobra, Continental and Navigator at premium prices. GM reserves it's Northstar to the Cadillac and gives everyone else pushrod V-8s. Toyota has indeed "raised the bar" when it comes to multi-cam V-8s. Oh, the Lincoln LS has a multi-cam V-8 but it's close to 40k for the privledge. Thanks for explaining the different Toy V-8s. The SUV and truck V-8s are probably engineered for more torque.
G35 coupe will come out next year. Their will also be a new midsize sedan coming out next year too which is not G35. It will fit between Q45 and G35 since Cefiro is getting a redesign next year also this might be it or it might be the Redesigned Gloria or Cedric.
Anywayz I'm surprised nobody read Nissan PDF and saw their webcasts on NissanNews.com cause all your info is right there it's as official as it gets. Also autonews.com did another interview with Carlos and even the interviewer knows G35 coupe is coming out NEXT YEAR (2002). Ghosn also said none of the existing line-up would be replaced only expanded. So don't be so sure G20 is going yet.
FYI: WORLD WIDE LAUNCHES (I will only list all new or totally redesigned cars not updates)
NOTE: Fourth Quaters may go into early 2003 and third quaters may go into fall 2002.
JAPAN: First Quater: Minicar, Luxury RV (2002) Second Quater: Z-Car Third Quater: Cube Fourth Quater: Luxury Coupe, Luxury Sedan
USA: First Quater: Infiniti G35 (2002) Second Quater: Z-Car, Infiniti New Car Third Quater: Nissan SUV, Infiniti New Car Fourth Quater: Maxima, Infiniti SUV.
EUROPE: First Quater: Primera All varients, New LCV? Third Quater: New LCV?
On of the automotive magazines had a computer generated picture of what a G35 coupe would look like last month(dec. issue). I forget which one though it may have beed Road and Track
Check out the infiniti.com/G35preview web page. It has been greatly enhanced! Lots of pictures, stats, specs, the works. I have a feeling this is going to be a great car!
Thanks norcalmike2. You're right, the Infiniti website has been substantially upgraded for the G35. Lot's of great info on just about everything about the car, except pricing, colors, and options. That photo in the gallery section of the G35 side view in black looks awesome!! I want one as soon as the 6-speed manuals come out. Still wonder what the coupe looks like.
I down loaded the wallpaper G35 picture from the infiniti.com/G35preview web page. Looks real good on my computer screen. Anybody have any idea how the G35 will do in NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) department? I used to drive a 300ZX which is a very good car. After a while I got tired of the bouncy ride and road noise. The web page says the ride is "silky". Has anyone read any reviews where people have actually driven the G35/Skyline that may have addressed NVH?
Haven't seen any road tests of the G35-Skyline, but with a 112in. wheelbase I think it's safe to assume that the ride quality will be excellent. Living in the pothole capitol of the world (Michigan) I'm not expecting miracles however.
I'll be giving the car the once over at the Detroit Show in a few weeks. Hope a well equipped version isn't more than 31-32K.
In today's mail I received my second update, a color full-out brochure. Clearly says "A 255-hp 3.5-liter V6". No mention of transmissions, though the picture of the dash/interior shows a shiftronic-type automatic. This picture also shows a silver/metallic interior with no wood trim. Appears the steering wheel-mounted cruise control buttons will not be lighted. Shows 3-spoke steering wheel. Mentions that Xenon headlights will be "available"; assuming that means optional and not standard. Spring 2002 arrival.
Optional navigation system will be single DVD with 3-D Birdview perspective and 6.5 inch color LCD screen, which retracts into dash. Periodic updates available for additional cost.
Comments
Well, with the intro of manual on the IS300 (I mean Corolla, hehe), what did it do to Lexus sales? Nothing! In fact, sales are still plummeting for IS300. LOL
Someone earlier had it right. The 530 may be low on horsepower, but with low weight and higher torque they still move. (I think BMW is pretty conservative with the numbers.) Look at the 540. Something like 280hp, but over 300 lb.ft. of torque.
Yeah, you can't make much of a rational arguement for a manual transmission, but do you think that Acura makes money on the NSX. If Infiniti wants the BMW mystique, they can't make the Lexus mistake.
You can't blame Infiniti for getting it wrong, their marketing is based in Fenton, MO. (You can almost hear the dueling banjos.) At least that's the return address on the letter I got.
It seems like the Japanesse just chase the numbers the HP, Weight distribution and 0-60 times, as most car buyers do.
To the guy who says that some car at half the price of a BMW is just as good, probably thinks money is wasted on a Harley. If people think BMWs are overpriced, by something else and giggle your way to the bank.
I am interested in a G35, but I know nobody is going to come out and say "WOW, Cool Infiniti". I want a BMW540, heck I'd settle for a 530, but I don't have the cash.
If the G35 had a manual transmission, good dynamics, and a sun roof for around 30, we might be able to do a deal.
BTW: I like BMW's too but I'm not fooling myself that they specially cater to "performance" or "driver-enthusiast" market all that much more than anyone else. Even with BMW's, the vast majority sold in this country have autos. Some, in fact, ONLY come with an auto. Go check the BMW Pre-owned inventory at their CPO website. Want a 3 or 5 series wagon with a stick? Out of the 55 wagons within a 500 mile radius of So Cal there is not a single one with a stick. The numbers are not much better with the 3 series sedan: Out of 80 in a 50 mile radius of my zip code only 13 were manuals. How Many of those had the sport package? Six. 6/80. Do we really expect any thing more of Infiniti buyers? I don't.
BTW iamwhoiam: Harleys ARE junk. No motorcycle enthusiast would ever buy one. Over priced, under engineered, underpowered, overweight, 30 year old technology with marginall reliability. Status symbols for brand name-slave poseurs. I am in awe of their marketing though. If GM could sell their dreck as well as Harley they would still have a 50% share of the car market.
HiC
Also, Infiniti has a special lease deal on G20s, but only for automatics, so you have to pay more for a manual than an automatic. This is really frustrating.
2) more power
3) lower maintenance
4) lasts longer
Exactomundo!!! Lexus blew their chance to introduce a real sports sedan with a manual last year. By having only an automatic on the IS300 upon introduction, the magazine reviews panned the car. This immediately shed a negative light on the IS300 in potential buyer's minds. Thus, buyers have already crossed the car off of their lists and out of their minds. Introducing the manual a year later is too late. People have already forgotten about this car. All the marketing buzz built up upon the car's introduction is long gone. Lexus lost its golden opportunity to impact the reviewers and the enthusiasts. As someone else said: You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. e.g., Hyundai will never compete with Porsche.
Let's hope the good folks at Infiniti don't make the same mistake as their arch rival Lexus.
in Orange County (L.A.) which had been sitting on the dealer's lot there for four months. Yes, the LM dealer's response was "who wants to shift a luxury car?" 92% of cars sold in America are Autos. 88% of the cars in Europe are "standard" transmission equipped. Of course, I laugh everytime I pass the tranny shop two blocks away. A 2 to 3 grand replacement is no fun, and chances are it's going to happen if you keep an auto car very long, because most owners don't change their mineral fluid often enough or go to a synthetic fluid (the best way to go). 25% of IS300 production is Manuals, and I think that is optimistic. BMW sells about 15% manuals here, much higher in two doors than four doors. I'm glad the M3 has a six-speed Getrag only. Separates the drivers from just those with money. So don't blame Nissan for the auto first. Manual drivers are hard core and a specialty market that some manufacturers almost ignore (GM). Only about 2% of Lincoln LS sales are manuals. I bet it's even smaller for Cadillac's new CTS.
2. iamwhoam... Think we are soul brothers. I, too, didn't think I could afford a 540i 6-speed. I used to dream and then ponder trying to buy a brand new '03 G35 or '02 330i manual. Then I started seeing ads for Certified Pre-Owned BMWs. Then I started pricing '98 and '99 CPO 540i 6-speeds. Guess what? I bought one! And I got 3.9 percent financing for 48 months with BMW Finance making the first payment. Comes with a pretty comprehensive 2 year/50,000 mile warranty, including Roadside Assistance. With its loaded original options, my '98 540i manual had an MSRP near $59,000. I paid a bit over $35,000.
3. hicaira... BMW's CPO info on their web site is outstanding. I used it to find the exact 540i 6-speed I wanted. Was 590 miles away but I worked the deal over the internet (thanks to Jim Franzen, Enterprise BMW, Appleton, Wisconsin.) When I ran a 500 mile radius search here in midwest I found a nice selection of '98-'01 530i and 540i manuals within the price range I specified. Too bad Infiniti's site isn't as comprehensive.
2 hicaira: Harley's are crap? I do agree about their marketing. GM I think is hopeless unless Luntz (sp?) gets production to stop designing cars (Everything seems designed to be made easily, not be aesthetic). I heard he recently sent out a tome about design has to improve, I think the area he selected was dashboards.
I hope the G35 ends up being the car that enthusiasts want. I want to see the debut ads about the car with that Nissan engineer saying something like "Enthusiasts wanted a 5 speed manual transmission, so we gave them a 6-speed."
Positive or negative reviews from magazine do not translate to good or bad sales. The fact of the matter is that the IS300 (oops, I meant Corolla) is a juvenile looking car. Styling, pricing, and features sell cars. Pricing and features in the IS are very attractive. Unfortunately for Lexus, they bombed on the boy racer appearance. Not even a manual can save the IS. What's up with the aftermarket looking tail lights, Euro antenna, and fancy aftermarket wheels? Cheesy looking. Think about it, Yuppies drive conservative sports sedan like BMW. They don't want to be "blend" in with the Honda boys, which is what you get if you drive the IS.
As for G35, the ultimate buying decision will be pricing. We already know that the G35 has 255hp, and the styling looks nice (from the brochure). It's a matter of execution from Marketing.
As I said before, if I'm paying $35K for a luxury sports sedan, I want the engine to shift by itself. I'm beyond the years where I shouldn't be shifting anymore...especially in heavy traffic in Orange County, CA. I want to ride in style..one hand on the wheel, and the other hand with my batmobile phone.
I'm not so sure about that so I beg to differ. I think one of the main reasons BMW sales have been so strong even at their relatively high prices is because every car magazine on the face of the earth kisses the ground its tires roll over. I believe this consistent praise from people that are accepted to be car experts has definitely drawn people into BMW showrooms, enthusiast and non-enthusiasts alike. People with the means to buy a BMW are usually smart enough not to believe every marketing message coming from the advertising world so they're not going to believe that BMWs are "The Ultimate Driving Machine" just because BMW says they are. But when all the car reviewers (aka experts) say it is over and over again, people start believing it and then open up their wallets. Many people still care about image, especially if they know their neighbors, friends, and co-workers also read car magazines.
Likewise, I can't think of any car reviewers that liked the G20. Thus, poor sales. Of course, the lack of power didn't help.
30% - Performance/fun. Based primarliy on what my seat of the pants told me about how I liked the acceleration and handling feel of the car. But also based partly upon what I read in reviews, since I didn't test drive any cars to their true limits.
30% - Overall looks. Aesthetics and ergonomics are important to me. Some very worthy performace competitors just didn't do it for me (BMW Z 3.0 /M Roadster). This is totally personal, nobody else can influence me as to what I like relative to looks.
30% - Quality / Value. The sedan replacements we were considering went up to $50k+. However, the S2000 at $32k made the third car option much easier than a $55k Boxter S would have. The dependability and quality of fit and finish of Honda didn't hurt either. Certainly the automotive press gives Honda high marks and that factored into my decision, since I can't personally poll every other owner.
10% - Image. I actually didn't want the "marquee" image associated with the Porsche, Mercedes or to a lesser extent BMW on my "fun" car. It would have made me feel more guilty about splurging. The fact that it's "just a Honda" is fine with me. However, I must admit to some slight ego in having a limited production car that's relatively unique. The automotive press probably reinforces for me slightly the desireable image of the S2000.
Now, with the above factors, I would say that my own unbiased direct assessment was about 80% of the final decision and the automotive press and other information sources probably had a 20% influence factor.
So I certainly agree with you, the press reviews do have an impact. And when I go to replace our sedan, they may be even more of a factor, since there are many more close competitors in this market segment. Great reviews of the new G35 will probably influence me to give it more serious consideration than I might otherwise have done. On the other hand, ho-hum reviews (and lack of a manual transmission) will likely keep me thinking BMW.
The private party and non-BMW (therefore non-CPO) 540i's and 528i's I saw in my area were initially about $2,000-$3,500 less expensive. But that is based on ad price. Of course, you can negotiate the price of everything. The BMW dealer's first serious offer dropped about $1,000 off the posted price. Then we got serious about negotiating. (If you want to keep payments down, you can get an interesting balloon buy option on CPOs, but the interest rate is higher.)
Now is a good time to buy a decent pre-owned vehicle. Flood of trade ins during the October-November new car sales crush.
Maybe introducing the G35 in April is a smart move by Infiniti. Things might be more back to normal by then. Detroit will (likely?) have discontinued the massive interest rate subsidies (at least the 0.0 percent offers) and the used market will have some time to sell off the late model low mile used cars.
HiC
By the time the manual is available, any first-year glitches are likely to be understood and eliminated, and the car should be ready for prime time.
Being an old (is there any other kind) 240-Z guy, the second and third years the car was on the market ('71 & '72) turned out to be the best they ever made. In '73 the major-league air pollution laws caused the world's most complicated carbeurators to be implemented, and by '74 the 260-Z was out.
So at least it sounds like there will be a manual version (5 or 6 speed, I don't know) (or at least Nissan is thinking about it). Whew!!! The enthusiasts on this thread can rejoice! Our prayers have been heard by Nissan! (See, making our opinions heard on these boards actually works)
I'm disappointed about the coupe, however. That would have been an interesting alternative. If it would've looked as hot as the BMW 3-series coupe, I may have seriously considered it.
We'll just have to wait and see.....
Yes, but the G35 replaces the G20. Please re-read the previous two posts.
My feeling is that the G35 may have the same engine as the I35...255hp.
Also saw a number of other cars on the site that I had never seen before including a Mercury version of the European Mondeo. Didn't think much of the sedan but the wagon looked great. I wonder if and when this car will turn up on these shores.
Sorry I don't have the web address but you can probably find it through the search mode.
stanny, off topic, but you have your Toyota V8's all mixed up. The I Force is only in the Tundra. A very similar 4.7 liter V8 (on which the I Force was based) is in the Land Cruiser and LX470. The GS 430, SC430 and LS 430 use a quite different 4.3 liter V8. And the Highlander has no V8 at all. None of this detracts from your point that Toyota saves a lot of money by sharing parts across platforms and lines - but what car company doesn't?
HiC
Thanks for explaining the different Toy V-8s. The SUV and truck V-8s are probably engineered for more torque.
Anywayz I'm surprised nobody read Nissan PDF and saw their webcasts on NissanNews.com cause all your info is right there it's as official as it gets. Also autonews.com did another interview with Carlos and even the interviewer knows G35 coupe is coming out NEXT YEAR (2002). Ghosn also said none of the existing line-up would be replaced only expanded. So don't be so sure G20 is going yet.
FYI: WORLD WIDE LAUNCHES (I will only list all new or totally redesigned cars not updates)
NOTE: Fourth Quaters may go into early 2003 and third quaters may go into fall 2002.
JAPAN: First Quater: Minicar, Luxury RV
(2002) Second Quater: Z-Car
Third Quater: Cube
Fourth Quater: Luxury Coupe, Luxury Sedan
USA: First Quater: Infiniti G35
(2002) Second Quater: Z-Car, Infiniti New Car
Third Quater: Nissan SUV, Infiniti New Car
Fourth Quater: Maxima, Infiniti SUV.
EUROPE: First Quater: Primera All varients, New LCV?
Third Quater: New LCV?
(BTW, the PDF files on NissanNews.com are huge and for some reason don't download properly, or at least it didn't work for me.)
Check out the infiniti.com/G35preview web page. It has been greatly enhanced! Lots of pictures, stats, specs, the works. I have a feeling this is going to be a great car!
I'll be giving the car the once over at the Detroit Show in a few weeks. Hope a well equipped version isn't more than 31-32K.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=417
Optional navigation system will be single DVD with 3-D Birdview perspective and 6.5 inch color LCD screen, which retracts into dash. Periodic updates available for additional cost.