Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Did you get a great deal? Let us know in the Values & Prices Paid section!
Meet your fellow owners in our Owners Clubs

Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

2456781

Comments

  • peters99peters99 Posts: 4
    You raise a great point...what is the direct larger replacement in any manufacturer? In Purulator, AC Delco, or K&N? Would there be a oil pressure problem with a bigger filter?
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    I have been suing larger filters, where space available fo years on several different manufacturer cars with no problems. More oil and more filtering capacity. As to why the maufacturers don't put larger filters on, wht else, even .50 cents a pop means big bucks in a years production.
  • brorjacebrorjace Posts: 588
    Peters, the problem is that info you want is awfully hard to come by. Most replacements (even Fram - ugh!) are 99% likely to be generally considered 'good enough' ... but there are always those of us who want to put a little more thought into the situation and come up with a better solution.

    armtdm, My guess is that they see the current filters as "good enough" and in the coming years, you'll see larger capacity filters with better media.

    Look at what is being done with direct injection, variable valve lift, tuned exhaust systems and 5W20 weight oil. The incredible amount of effort being put in for (sometimes) minute gains in performance, economy and/or emissions.

    I think it's just a matter of time before the techies get around to designing better oil, air and maybe even fuel filters.

    --- Bror Jace
  • 0patience0patience Oregon CoastPosts: 1,712
    The Wix filters #51344 and #51334 both have the same bypass settings. In fact, they utilize the exact same valve.


    As far as the K&N, it states 10-20 micron, which tells me that there is no uniformity to their filters. That bothers me.

    If you ever get a chance, ask to see the filter catalog at one of the parts stores, most filter catalogs will give the specs for all of the filters. WIX, NAPA, Fleetguard and some others state exact specifications for their filters.


    Now, here is a quote.

    Oil filters remove contaminants from the oil before they generate wear on engine component surfaces. There are many filtration products offered in the industry today with some claiming to allow for extended oil drain intervals. The fact is, the filter alone will not extend the life of engine oil. The filter has one function, and that is to filter contaminants from the oil. While most filters today do an excellent job in filtering, the trend of extending oil drain intervals 2 to 3 times the normal service interval has pushed the materials used in the manufacture of filters to the limit.


    See this page for the complete article.


    And for more intersting reading on it, see this page.

  • edwardh5edwardh5 Posts: 130
    is - have they ever had a third party independant lab test their claims?

    Anyone know what a larger filter for the 4 cyl camry is? Lots of room.
  • brorjacebrorjace Posts: 588
    Thanks, Opatience, for that little tidbit! I never take anything at face value I hear on the 'net ... at least I almost never do. >;^)

    I stopped using that larger Wix filter because the stores I went to stop carrying it as a regular stock item and it was something like $8 on special order. Also, its diameter was such that it actually got scratch marks on the side as I screwed it into position. That's just a little too tight for comfort ... since I can't quite see what it's hitting back there. >:^O

    --- Bror Jace
  • 0patience0patience Oregon CoastPosts: 1,712
    Then it is probably a good call to switch back.

    Some folks tend to confuse hydraulic flow with pressure.
    They think the more capacity, the higher the pressure. Not true.
    If you take a lager pipe and measure the pressure pushing oil thru it, then use a pipe half its size, the flow (or Gallons per minute)will drop and the pressure will increase.
  • boat10boat10 Posts: 59
    the differance between a AC-DELCO PF-58 and a PF-59 oil filter. I'm getting ready to put MOBIL 1
    syn. oil in a new 2002 Chevy Trailblazer, the manual calls for either a PF-58 or PF-59. I need to know the differance???????
  • mrnimmomrnimmo Posts: 271
    I haven't seen a Pf58 lately. 59 replaced it, at least according to the last AC catalog I saw. Haven't compared them side by side, so I cannot tell you if they are physically different. It is a common application on the 4.3 Vortec and probably others (350?).
  • textruckrtextruckr Posts: 22
    Are made by Champion Laboratories, according to their boxes. Just noticed this yesterday at the Tractor Supply Company.
    Where I live there are a lot of Doge/Cummins owners wwho swear by Fleetguard Filters, and even clain they are recommended by Cummins over the Mopar filters.

    Texas Truck - r
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    #1854

    I have also read this in passing but some filters actually filter better with a "light coating of dust, debris, call it what you will.
  • zr2randozr2rando Posts: 391
    Side note, the 4.3 vortec uses the AC pf52 which is what I use. Looks similar to the pf59 just a little longer, (maybe the same just a little bigger???
    I've noticed that the CASTROL filters have the same part numbers as the FRAM/KMART/etc but at least in the case of the pf43 (1989 Nissan) the filter looks different inside,,,anybody know who makes the CASTROL filters?
    Anybody had any experience with the new FRAM filters? do they still use cardboard endcaps?
    see y'all
  • filters still use cardboard. I verified this just a few weeks ago when I read about their contstruction. That is when I started this thread.
  • zr2randozr2rando Posts: 391
    I was curious about the new FRAMs that cost about $10 , I cut open one of the red ones too...CHEEEEEEP
    Thanks
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    Regardless of who makes the filter, if it is under a different name it is probably manufactured under different specifications. Thus, even though Champion may make various different name filters that does not mean the same specifications were used in any of them.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Posts: 1,118
    Are you saying that the Fram X2 $10.00 filter is still cheap. I get MobileOne filters for the same price. I was thinking of trying one.
  • zr2randozr2rando Posts: 391
    I was wondering about the NEW FRAMS as far as if they are worth the $10, I know the MOBIL1 is considered a good filter (not sure if it is worth $10 or not though) . Good point about the different specs for different names when made by a common manufacturer,,,I think that the Castrol filters would have done themselves a favor by numbering the filters different than the Frams given all the recent bad E-"press" about the Frams.
    Keep this thing going
    see y'all in abit
  • adc100adc100 Posts: 1,521
    filters. I think they are the best because they use the fiberglass. Thiis is a depth vs surface media. I am not aware of other filters which do this. The reason I don't use them exclusively is because the anti-drainback valve is better on the OEM Nissan and Pure One filters. I use the Mobil One in the vertical filter applications which do not require the good (or any) anti-drainback valve.
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    I use the Amsoil filters in most cases and Pure one in another but HAstings is a good filter made by Baldwin actually. Baldwin makes many fitlers including Amsoil but they will not state which of theirs is better


    http://www.auto-motor-oil.com/

  • gasguzzgasguzz Posts: 214
    I believe there are posts here on substituting filters with larger capacity (as in using another number rather than that listed for your car). I asked this of Purolator if I could use a different number they had but with a longer can (or more capacity) - "No, we do not recommend other than that specified four your vehicle". I suspect it is tied to flow, pressure and filtering parameters (or is selection criteria based on actual testing?).
    Food for thought... it is not a given you can swap filters just because you have the same thread and diameter.

    ADC, your here too. Please read my post 678, Engine Oil... Slippery... Part 2.
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    I don't think that there is any difference in filters of the same brand where you substitue a larger size (longer housing) with more media in terms of flow etc. If the thread matches and the gasket matches I believe all filters of a specific brand are created equal inside as they are made for multiple applications, some vertical some horizontal etc. Purolator is simply CYA in their statement for fear of a larger filter perhaps hitting a belt or pulley or hose and causing damage so they cannot suggest using a filter other the the recommended OEM replacement for the car. I have used larger capacity Amsoil filters for years on several cars with no problems of any kind. I have done this on Maximas, Isuzus, Mitsubishi, Chev and Toyota. If there is room for the filter and the threads and gasket matches they work fine!!!!
  • adc100adc100 Posts: 1,521
    I have done the same thing. No product manufacturer will ever give you the go ahead to use something that isn't specifically recommended by the another manufacturer. Product liability/lawyers etc. More flow and less pressure drop is a good thing-period.
  • gasguzzgasguzz Posts: 214
    the mechanical (thread/gasket/clearance) fitment. Agreed. My question is how have you determined a NO-PROBLEM switching to a NON-SPECIFIED filter. By valvetrain noise (or by ear)? What about filtration performance through scientific analysis. "If there is room for the filter and the threads and gasket matches they work fine" - the clearance and liability factors are quite obvious, but how do you know it "works fine" TECHNICALLY?
  • adc100adc100 Posts: 1,521
    I have done it. I noticed no abnormal operating characteristics. It stands to reason that a larger filter will have a lower pressure drop and therefore deliver more oil which is probably a good thing. I can think of no reason why bigger is not better. Don't forget different brands of filters will have different media as well as different amounts of surface area. Also the differential pressure will change as the filter media filters out dirt. The oil pump may pick up dirt on the intake screen and deliver lower amounts of oil. I had a screen 90% plugged due to the dealer gooping up a warped oil-pan instead of supplying a new one. The vehicle operated in an oil starved manner for at least a year. Through it all the bearings survived and after 140,000 miles the vehicle is still on the road. Bottom line-its not that critical. (IMHO)
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    My Amsoil rep recommended the larger size and I respect his opinon as I know that he attended many of their courses and I feel he knows their product line. He seems to have a reference chart with larger sized filters if the engine compartment has the room. Second, I do oil analysis at least once a year and I have seen no difference in the analysis with the larger filters. I have done this on at least four different engines with no apparent ill effects. As noted above, if you use different brands of filters I am sure that each has a different flow rate, media, pressure etc. and the oil pumps seem to compensate.
  • spokanespokane Posts: 514
    I agree that a larger filter can only be better if size is the only difference. However, are there situations in which an alternate filter can have a different relief pressure setting for its by-pass valve? Complicating this issue further is the fact that some filters don't have by-pass valves because a by-pass is built into the engine. I once measured the relief pressure-differential to be ~11 PSI on an automotive oil filter but don't know if this was typical. Has anyone seen any published specs for the by-pass relief settings?
  • gasguzzgasguzz Posts: 214
    Thanks for post 55. That clears it for me when switching filters WITHIN the same brand. Swapping to larger filters is common, but your investigation does more than say-so.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    What do you think of me using a Motorcraft filter instead of a Mazda filter on my 2001 Mazda Protoge ES 2.0L? I read somewhere in a oil filter study that Motorcraft filters are the same internally as the purolator pure 1 filters. Unfortunately, they don't make pure 1 filters for my application, but they do have a motorcraft filter that cross-references to my car. Any suggestions?
  • gasguzzgasguzz Posts: 214
    Navigating through the Fleetguard website their FAQ stipulates a BPV setting based on OEM specs. In my case, my Honda's oil filter application is set to 7.8psi. Now, doesn't this indicate a possible difference in BPV settings by going to a different size filter? Question is, would the different setting be significant enough to affect filtering adversely? I would say probably not.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Posts: 1,118
    I'll be the Motocraft and Mazda filters are the same. Ford tries to keep components the same when possible. Motocraft have a good filter standard.
This discussion has been closed.