Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

armtdm

Same as most off brand (store brand) filter, not very good IMHO. Like the Quaker State Filter, Deusch, STP etc., just knock offs of a poor brand like Fram.

csandste

Deutsch and STP are are Champion Labs.
Quaker State are Fram and should be avoided at all costs. One can certainly tell Fram filters from any other.

I've seen most of the Champion Labs filters disassembled at Auto Zone and they all look very similar. STP has replaced Deutsch at AZ and SuperTech replaced STP at Wal-Mart.

The original MOPAR oil filter study was anti Champion Labs because of paper quality. I think the reference said the filtering medium looked flimsy. (Of course the Acura study was against some medium that looked "fuzzy") Supposedly the author backed down after threats from Champion Labs attorneys. The later study doesn't have this reference. The earlier anti-Champion comments are mirrored on certain sites.

In examining Champion Labs filters, the paper quality looks fine to me. Any comments on this from our paper expert?

csandste

Super Tech: Single pass filtration 98%, average competition 76%
multi pass filtration 94%, average competition 79%

source: Champion Labs

Fram: Single 96%, competition 64$
Multi pass 94%, competition 82%

I believe these figures are on Super Tech and Fram boxes despite the model number.

Question: I always assumed Fram would give the lowest possible results. If this is the case, what is the reference filter that performs worse? Apparently both of these studies refer to "averages".

Also, Why are average multi pass filtrations at a lower rate than single pass? Why are the referenced filters higher at single pass tests (that would seem to make more sense)?

adc100

I don't pretend to be an expert. Single pass takes the number of particles upstream and compares them to downstream. This is called a "beta" ratio at a ginen particle size. An efficency is calculated based on this ratio. A multipass is run until the filter reaches its design differential pressure ratio or until a specified amount of time passes. Data points are taken (beta #'s for a particle size) at specified times or pressure differential. From this average and time weighted beta values are calculated and efficiencies are computed. The quality of a filter media yields different values of single and multpass efficiencies. Not trying to snow you but the tests are vastly different based on filter media. Hopefully tsjay can elaborate or correct as required.

Later

dougsey

Thanks for your reply regarding the Motorcraft filters. From what I've read on these boards, some folks are under the impression that buying a Motorcraft filter is an inexpesive way of getting a PureOne because they use the same media.

In your opinion, is it wise to go with a highly efficient filter, or are they so efficient that they tend to clog and go into bypass prematurely?

tsjay

"In examining Champion Labs filters, the paper quality looks fine to me. Any comments on this from our paper expert?"

You can count on the paper in a Champion Labs filter being "good paper." I am including the paper Champion Labs buys from our competitor, but, of course, I think our paper is even better.

Champion Labs does a lot of testing of their filters. They often have us send hand-rolled coils of our paper taken from the outside of one of the rolls of paper that we are going to ship them, and they make elements in their model shop using this paper. They then put these elements on their tests stands to check the performance of the paper.

Champion Labs does an excellent job of building filters, they use top quality media, and they do frequent testing, so I wouldn't put too much faith in an article that casts them in a negative light.

tom

csandste

Tom-- I think you said that there were different qualities of paper. Would this mean that a "house brand" like Wal-Mart (SuperTech) would be built to a different standard than their own filters (Lee or Champ?) Does a company like Wal-Mart specify standards, or is their a standard that most of these filters whether SuperTech or Car & Driver (Target) use?

I think another of his comments on the MiniMopar thread was that some Champion Labs units had rust on internal portions of the filter. I seem to remember this from a few years ago, but haven't seen it lately.

Personally I usually use Champion Labs filters. I think they're good value. I yell and scream when getting an oil change at Wal-Mart, insisting on no Fram.

tsjay

True. Walmart would set the spec for their filters, and this could be a different spec than the specs Champion Labs might use for their own brands. How Walmart might have arrived at their spec, I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you that the Super Tech filters should be good ones, based on the media they have in them.

We recently acquired the business for the media that is used in the Super Techs, and I was very impressed with the specs for this paper. (Our main competitor in automotive lube filter media has left the market place and will be concentrating on other paper products. We have inherited a lot of new business because of this, and the Super Tech media is one of our new grades.)

tom

csandste

One of my contentions is that most major retailers are not going to cut corners on specs. Your comments on filters is in line with the comments on house brand oil from one of the major testing labs. If anything, I've always felt that buying a house brand from a major retailler added safety.

It might be possible to "counterfit" name brand products (remember a report on counterfit, rebottled oil about a decade ago). Obviously Wal-Mart is much less likely to do this than some small mom and pop parts store.

tsjay

Somewhere many posts ago I commented that automotive engineers can't even agree among themselves as to what size particles contibute significantly to engine wear.

This is why I am not certain that the high efficiency filters are necessary. I am, for the first time ever, using one of the high efficiency filters. I have just had one put on my '89 S-10 pickup at the last oil change.

I think they are designed so as not to clog too early, so I wouldn't worry about that, but you just have to decide for yourself if the higher efficiencies in the small particle sizes is really doing anything to prolong your engine life.

I guess one way of looking at it is that "it sure couldn't hurt," assuming that these filters don't cause too much restriction or clog too soon.

tom

tsjay

ADC had it about right in his answer. These tests are definitely not directly comparable.

Obviously, the nature of the contaminate would have a major impact on the efficiency of filtration, other things being equal. Different contaminates are used for multi pass vs single pass.

The single pass test most often uses glass beads, as far as I know. An engineer at one of our customers told me just today that they most often use glass beads with a 10 to 70 micron size distribution for their single pass testing.

The multi pass test uses actual dust that has been screened and blended to contain particles within a specified distribution. This test dust used to be referred to as "Arizona Road Dust," and I'm not sure if that was just industry slang, or if maybe the stuff really was literally, "Arizona road dust." It was once supplied to the industry by AC, and now it is supplied by PTI.

The particle size distribution of the test dust runs down to smaller particles than does that of the glass beads, so, naturally, the efficiency of filtration will be lower for the test dust.

tom

tsjay

if you keep asking me about specific brands of filters.

Fortunately, the filters I have been directly asked about so far are ones that I have confidence in. I was able to give a truthful, positive answer.

What will I do if someone asks about a filter that I think is a piece of crap? If I remain silent, my silence will speak volumes, and if I answer truthfully and say that I think it is a piece of crap... well, you know I can't do that.

So, no more comments from old Tom about specific filters, regarless of whether I like them or whether I don't. OK?

I will be glad to speak about filters and filter media in general terms, however.

tom

adc100

I will continue to buy the filters which advertise their efficiencies on the box. It appears that this means that I will continue to use Pure One and Mobil 1.

mrl11777

Anyone know who makes it for them?

bottgers

Does anyone know who makes what for whom?

mrl11777

K&N sells a K&N-branded premium oil filter. Do they manufacture it themselves, or is it made for them? If so, does anyone know who makes it?

stealth1969

you find what larger size filter may be a replacment for a smaller one? Like the talk of the PF47 and PF52. where can you get information like that?

bottgers

K&N makes their own filters.

adc100

It's like playing detective. In a lot of cases manufactures use common filter head size and thread. Gm uses a lot of PF-47's. In the back of the Pure One Filter book you can check dimensions, relief valve settings and whether it has an anti-drainback valve. The manufacturer of the vechicle and filter frown on the common consumer replacing the filter with an oversize one because they can not assume the consumer made the right choice. In my own mind I can say that a PF-52 can always be substituted for a PF-47. Are you interested in any partcular ones??

Later

davisjd

I have read all the messages on this particular subject. This is my first post at Town Hall. You all are very knowledgeable and I just wanted to thank you for sharing with those of us just wanting to keep our cars running as long as possible. Just bought a new 2001 Silverado which uses the AC Delco PF59 oil filter. So far I have not seen many bad things said about AC Delco, but I was wondering if anyone knew if the UPF59 (Ultra Gold) filter could be substituted for the PF59? I would be willing to spend the extra money and I have read a couple of places that the Mobil 1 filter allowed a drop of 10psi for others owning the same vehicle as mine. The drop in pressure is not something I think I would want.

Thanks,

davisjd

brorjace

Davisjd, keep in mind that if an oil filter is letting your pressure drop ... it means that it's less restrictive and flowing more ... which is a GOOD thing.

Actually, you have to balance filtering out every microscopic bit against maintaining a steady, healthy flow of oil.

--- Bror Jace

tsjay

Which side of the oil filter is the pressure gauge showing, upstream or downstream? I thought it would be downstream, but that was just an assumption on my part.

Don't you want to know the pressure of the clean oil going to the engine?

tom

seelig

it was me and 2 other rado owners that have tried the Mobil 1 filter. we posted our findings on the "silverado problems" topic. not that the oil pressure guage is 100% accurate, but we all saw a drop on the scale by at least 10 psi's. when a filter causes this kind of a drop, it is because it is more restrictive. i have tried the Ultra Gold "59", and it doesn't show a drop in pressure from using the regular PF59. i use Mobil 1 and a PF 59, but i also change it out at around 5K miles. the few places thaat carry Mobil filters have stopped stocking them. your best bet is to use a PF59 until the warranty runs out. although the law doesn't allow the manufacture to deny a warranty claim due to non Delco filters and such, why take the chance.

bottgers

You're not making any sense. If a filter is more restrictive, it's not going to cause a drop in pressure, it would cause a rise in pressure. What places have stopped stocking the Mobil 1 filters? I'm certainly not seeing this where I'm at. Why would someone recommend an AC Delco filter over a Mobil 1 filter. Not that the Delco is a bad one, because it isn't, but the Mobil 1 is superior in every way.

seelig

since pressure reading on the Vortec is actual line pressure, then for it to show 10 psi drop, i would say that somewhere there is a restriction, aka, "confine" "limited".......meaning that the filter is not only doing it's job of filtering the oil which is pulled from the pan, but it is filtering it too good. instead of being one of those defensive types, why not offer an explanation for why we saw a drop in oil pressure?
care to explain the facts?
Mobil 1 filters have an excellent internal build quality, but for the price, very few are going to shell out 3 times the cost, and when they were stocked at the favorite DIY parts stores, there were only limited sizes available, which made them even less popular. there are still a few left, and like i said, they have stopped stocking them, which means, no-reorder.
hope this helps........but i would really like to hear your reasons for the drop in oil pressure if you have one.
or if i'm wrong about the filter being restrictive, and it is indeed less restrictive, then that means it is not filtering as well as it should, which is another reason why i won't use it.

tsjay

It would be nice if the oil pressure was read both upstream and downstream of the filter, wouldn't it? Then we would know the pressure drop across the filter, and this could be monitored during the life of the filter and could be an indicator of when the filter should be changed.

I'm still confused about where the reading is normally taken, upstream or downstream from the filter?

There must be someone in this group that can answer that question.

Looks to me like it would be most important to know the pressure of the oil that is going to where the oil is needed, which would be downstream from the filter.

If the pressure reading is taken downstream of the filter, though, then why is the pressure reading higher when the engine is cold and the oil viscosity is higher? You would be getting less flow through the filter with cold oil, and it would make sense that the pressure would go up on the inlet (upstream) side of the filter, and down on the outlet side.

I still think it should be measured on both sides!

tom

adc100

downstream of the flter as far as I know. I've been told(by an old mechanic) many times that oil is only useful if it gets to where it needs to go. Using synthetic would give better protection if low flow is occuring. I would assume though that there would still be enough flow. I once had a Ranger that ran a year or so with 3/4 of the suction plugged off with RTV sealant. On cold mornings it took a minute or so for the red light to go out and sounded terrible. Didn't seem to hurt it. I know thats not a good normal thing to do. Hopefully Shiftright or Alcan can help here.

zr2rando

Depending on the vehicle manufacturer, some require the bypass to be in the filter and others build a bypass into the oil inlet mount. (My Nissan uses a filter with a bypass valve, MY Chev filter does NOT have one (PF52))
If the filter has a bypass valve then a driver may notice different oil pressure with different filters because the filter valve may open at varying pressures with each filter (individually or diff makers..if a certain brand has high pressure drop across the filter and the bypass only bypasses at a relatively high filter back pressure a driver would probably notice the differences more like when cold/hot/high speed/low speed etc..
If the engine has the bypass the driver should notice less variance because no matter what filter is there the bypass always opens at the same value so even if the filter is totally clogged the bypass opens the whole time and the pressure at the gauge sensor would be the same anyway (I think the sensor is probably after the filter, otherwise I think that engine speed would clearly show oil pressure differences, most pumps uses regulators to keep flow at required levels and just let the pump do its work by itself...fuel pumps use a regulator and then bypass extra fuel back to the tank is a good example (also helps mix up fuel additives when you add them after tank is full), the oil filter (and bypass valve) would also be a "pressure regulator"..(and it's not just the paper efficiency either, you have to check the size and number of the holes in the inside tube of the filter too, they cause back pressure too.
I used to use FRAMs but after learning about them and checking the bypass valve they use, it was probably bypassing most of the time and I never knew it.
If a filter does too good of a job at catching junk it will clog up relatively faster and start bypassing earlier and then you just lost the benefit of the filter anyway, sometimes the "high efficiency" is not such a good thing unless there is enough paper to last long enough to go a reasonable time/mileage.
For an example, pay attention to the air filter in your house, it stays clean for a while and when it starts getting dirty, it gets dirtier quicker (higher efficiency at that point!) but you probably don't have an air bypass built in so your fan/motor has to work harder to push the air through and eventually burns out if you don't change the filter ..
I'm beginning to think that average efficiency and good consistent quality is the main thing that matters to me, I'd rather have a filter catch the big/medium stuff most of the time rather than catch ALL the stuff some of the time and bypass a lot of the time.

bottgers

Again, a restriction in the system, anywhere in the system, is going to cause an increase in pressure, not a decrease. Maybe the filters you were comparing the Mobil filter to were too resrictive. Have you asked the any of the store empolyees why they're not restocking their supply of Mobil filters? Our local Auto Zone carries a good supply of Mobil filters, and continues to do so.

Who would spend 3 times the amount for an oil filter? I would. Who would trust the life of their engine to a $3 filter? Not me. I'll gladly spend the $10 for a Mobil 1 filter knowing I have the best filter made, and my engine will still be running like new 10 years from now.

seelig

when you learn to read, and answer my questions, i'll humor you further. you obviously don't have a clue, and have no idea why the Vortec runs with the amount of pressure it does. when you say that i must have been using filters that were restrictive, then you must be saying that GM doesn't know what they are doing as well. again, when you can explain how the oil system works within the Vortec engine works, and why we experienced a pressure loss, i'll talk with ya. until then, i'll read your arrogant posts, but don't feel bad if ignored. if blowin 10 bucks makes ya happy, then go for it.

seelig

excellent post.......too bad none of it set in with current company.
you really did your homework, and i agree with you 100%.

tsjay

ZR2RANDO, my oil pressure DOES fluctuate with engine speed, and every vehicle that I have ever heard of with an oil pressure gauge and not just an "idiot light" shows oil pressure variations depending on engine speed. Once the engine is warmed up to normal temperature, I have about 30 psi oil pressure at idle and about 60 psi at highway speed. When the engine is cold, I have about 60 or 70 psi even at low engine speed, due to the high viscosity of the cold oil.

Also, if engines are designed to constantly by-pass the filter with part of the oil flow, that's news to me. I know fuel systems are designed that way, but I never heard of an automobile lube system designed that way (of course, there's a lot of things I never heard of).

I know that the relief valve on a filter can be at the bottom or at top, but I never heard of a built-in bypass in the engine itself.

Man, I wish some automotive engineer would come by and straighten us all out here!

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am CORNFUSED!

tom

zr2rando

SEELIG, Sounds like you actually read it, cool, and it does make sense, filtration is a pretty basic function..My Chev has the 4.3 vortec (ZR2 has the additional oil cooler and I usually show almost 60psi going down the road, our 4.3 Vortec in the blazer (does not have additional oil cooler shows about 40psi going down the road. I think the zr2 has a higher capacity pump probably because it does have some additional oil path due to the cooler which is just a section of tube out in front of the radiator but I'm not positive, the zr2 is a 99, the Blazer is a 95. As far as your pressure loss with a certain filter? Your bypass valve could have a little higher setting and a better (more restrictive) filter caused more backpressure (pressure drop) than the older filter but not enough to force the stiffer bypass valve, but Im just guessing.
BOTTGERS, Think about it, you always have the highest actual pressure at the pump, it just goes down from there all the way finally back to the resevoir where it starts all over again. Each constriction causes "pressure drop" not "pressure add", think about water going through a hose and you pinch the hose with pliers, you are causing "pressure drop" and you can feel the pressure on the high side and you can tell it is reduced on the low side (you are reducing the flow also) . The filter is one of the restrictions to flow, it forces the oil to go through the paper/fiberglass/media...and then on through the several routes through the engine and finally drains back to the pan.

seelig

you may have to draw a picture for you know who....LOL
even then, some just won't admit they are wrong.
have a great weekend.

zr2rando

Any bypass should only bypass when the oil is too cold/thick or the filter is blocked, otherwise it would be a "oil passage" rather than a "bypass". The GM motors have the bypass just before the inlet to the filter, some makers let the filter do the bypass, and different filter makers bypass either at the top or at the bottom, personally I think the bypass right at the inlet is the best because then it doesn't pick up as much really dirty oil, but there has to be a bypass otherwise anybody who doesn't change the filter often enough will restrict flow so much that they will give the vehicle manufacturer alot of hands on experience with "oil related problems"...he he
if a bypass valve is too weak (F R A M) then you will get bypass all the time and there ya go.
You will always see the oil pressure fluctuate with engine speed, but it should be less fluctuation after the filter than before it because of the bypass action, kind of has a leveling effect. You said you notice about 60 psi going down the road? it probably limits out close to that even if you speed up more right?? Maybe the gauge is before the filter I don't know but I do know the bypass keeps you from building up too much pressure and causing leaks everywhere before the filter and oil starvation everywhere after it
At low flow rates (low engine speed) you would have less pressure drop anyway, at higher speeds (higher flowrate) you actually are cramming the oil into the same filter and it is effectively blocking it more so you get more pressure drop. My example with the water hose, if you have the water on slow the pliers don't really stop the hose too bad either, but open the water all the way and you notice that now you are really constricting the flow because only so much can actually get out when you have it stopped up partially,,,,and no matter how fast it is coming out it will always be at the same PRESSURE as the atmosphere it is pouring into,,,weird huh?
As far as a $3 filter? Just make sure it is any $3 filter that is not orange , sorry , I get kinda carried away with that sometimes.
Y'all have a good weekend back to ya

tsjay

Thanks. I was aware of the need for by-pass somewhere in the oil system, but I always thought that the filter provided this mechanism.

I still think it would be cool to have a pressure reading just before and just after the filter, so that the restriction due to the filter could be monitored. I guess that would also allow you to know when the filter was by-passing, right?

Hey, I've never seen you post there, and I wonder if you are aware of "s-series.org?" It's a bulletin board for s-series vehicle owners. It's a really great place, and you ought to check it out sometime.

Here's a link...

http://www.s-series.org/phpBB/index.php

tom

zr2rando

It would be GREAT if manufactures would offer that as an option, but I think it would require them to make us take a test to see if we knew what the benefit was..
and with a bypass the 2 gauges would not actually help much anyway.
I went to school at Auburn University and got a Chemical Engineering degree (I'm sure I just opened a can o'worms) and learned plenty about filtration. I took several labs that showed the effects of filtration/obstruction/restriction/alcohol intake
and all that so I did learn some basics at least.
It is amazing what the 2 gauges show as the filter media starts filling up, you see very quickly that filtration can be a bad thing very easily if not done properly...filtering too much can hurt worse than filtering too little actually.
I installed water filters on the water pipes to my house (I have a well) and I actually get better water after they get dirty for quite a while before I notice any restriction effects (low pressure at the faucetts..)
I realize you work for a filter paper manufacturer but I am actually not a big fan of really high efficiency filtering media, I figure that the dirt actually helps with the filtering work (limited help I know but it does add to the filter media and is basically "free help".
I do realize that better quality media/paper can hold more dirt before actually stopping up though and I am still looking at different filters as far as price/quality goes...I just have this hangup about those orange ones...
You having a good weekend yet? I am!
see ya ?(hear from ya actually) soon
And thanks for that s-series page, I'll be checking it soon, I've got 2 of 'em so I should probably see what the rest of the s-world thinks huh?
Rando

bottgers

Describing the restricted flow of water in a garden hose is not a good comaprison with an engine's oil system. Unlike a garden hose, an engine's oil system is a closed loop system. Therefore, the pressure coming out of the pump should be the same as the pressure going into the pump, unless there's a leak in the system. There could be a drop in pressure downstream of the filter if the filter is completely clogged and it's bypass valve isn't allowing oil to bypass the filter. Restricted flow would not cause a pressure drop.

So you think I'm wasting my money on Mobil 1 filters, huh? I strongly disagree. I don't get 300,000 miles or more out of my cars by being lucky. I directly attribute this longevity to the use of Mobil 1 filters and full synthetic motor oil.

seelig

> i get 300K out of my cars regularly, and use Mobil 1 filters<......they haven't even been out that long pal......
>the pressure going out of the pump should be the same as the pressure going in<....where do you come up with this folklore?
and when are you going to explain why we saw a pressure drop when using the Mobil 1 filter?

tsjay

Sorry to disagree with you, but there's no way the pressure going into a pump is the same as that going out of a pump. If that were true, why would you need the pump?

I still think we need a good automotive engineer to visit this board and give us a lesson on engine lubrication systems.

tom

zr2rando

Any pump system starts out at low pressure, uses a pump to pressurize at the start and runs the course of the sytem finally getting back to a resevoir and starting over, that is a closed system like the auto engine, the example of the hose is right on as an example at any given restriction point like a filter , the engine has several restriction points finally ending at the top of the heads, the oil just drains down to the pan at that point.
The MOBIL1 filters are good , probably better than most of us need, I had a 1989 Nissan 280Z that I sold at 189000 miles never having any engine work, only used 20w50 Castrol oil and hate to say it "F R A M" filters..
changed oil at 3k and was never low on oil at the change. MOBIL1 did not exist at the time and neither did synthetic oil...
Granted with synth oil and MOBIL1 you should not have oil related problems, most people would not see them anyway these days so many people lease vehicles they rarely keep them long enough to realize the benefit of long term care. Some of us do keep a vehicle long enough to see it though and for us....well here we are ain't we?
If your into electrical theory? its similar to hydraulic ,,,,pressure is voltage, pressure drop is voltage drop, current is flow rate, resistors..same as filters or any other restriction point...wires cause some resistance to electric flow just like any pipe/tube causes some resistance to hydraulic flow as well

did everyone remember to set the clocks back?
see yall later
Rando

adc100

I also had trouble understanding why pressure out of the pump is the same as pressure into it. Unless the pump is not running

bottgers: this is not a slam, but perhaps you could take a basic hydraulics course. I think your confusion stems frum the nature of how a system reacts to a pump. Both have head curves which vary with flow. You seem to be interested in this subject. You probably would get a lot out of it.

zr2rando: Lots of good posts. Food for thought about the high efficiency filters. Thats why if you are using a gigh efficiency flter, synthetic oil is important in wintertime. BTW, Mobil and Amsoil were available in 1989. Mobil 1 in 1975 and Amsoil a bit earlier, I believe.

Al

tsjay

Right! And if the pump wasn't running, then it would be a source of restriction, and the pressure would still not be equal on either side of it: there would be higher pressure on the intake side and lower pressure on the discharge side, due to this restriction.

tom

tsjay

Guys, you know that I cannot get into brand name discussions, since our company sells to just about all the big name filter manufacturers, and we can't afford to offend even the ones who don't buy from us now, because we hope to have their business some day.

Although I won't be able to add any comments about the subject, I would love to know where you guys are getting your information about Fram filters by-passing. Can you put me onto this report?

Thanks

tom

tsjay

In post #337 you said that you were not sure about the high efficiency filters. I'm witchyoo on that. I have posted before (#310, for example) that I am not sure you gain anything in engine life by capturing the very small particles that the high efficiency filters capture. (Now, I'm NOT saying that you don't: I am just saying that I don't know)

We need to remember that above about 20 microns, the high efficiency filters are little, if any, more efficient than a regular filter. It's the little guys that are captured more efficiently with the high efficiency filters.

I have finally, for the first time, bought a high efficiency filter. I put a Pure One on my '89 S10. The oil pressure readings have not changed noticeably from when I was using just a regular PF52 AC filter. So, I am apparently not doing any harm by using the Pure One, but am I doing any good????

tom

tsjay

AUBURN??? Well, at least you are in the right conference. GO UK WILDCATS!

Tubby and the Boys are gonna do some serious butt-kickin' this year!

tom

bottgers

I guess if guys want more info on this subject, you'll have to ask the resident expert, seelig. Apparently he thinks he knows it all!

zr2rando

Now that you said that I remember it was the new thing and it was way too expensive for me, but you're right it was available,,,actually I think the Germans started making it in WWII when we were blowing up their refineries..
As far as the PURE ONE , nothing wrong with it that I've ever heard, looking at them the filter mmaterial seems to be great but they have little holes in the inside which makes me think they probably restrict flow a little there but from everything I've heard they are good filters----at least they make their own which is more than you can say for others...
As far as the FRAM bypass, I just cut one open and pushed on the valve and it had very little tension, made me think it took very little filter backpressure to keep it open...the paper looks fine but the cardboard ends look cheap...
WAR EAGLE!!!!!!

tsjay

That was adc100 that commented that the the Mobil 1 was available as early as '75, not me.

On the Pure One, I assume you are talking about the holes in the center tube that allow the oil that has passed through the paper to get to the engine? If so, they probably have MORE holes, even though they are smaller, so that the overall flow restriction is no worse than would be the case for center tubes with larger (but fewer) holes.

Now, tell me this, are you guys Plainsmen, War Eagles, or Tigers???? Gees, make up your minds! Maybe the local papers thought people would get bored with the headlines always reading "Tigers Beaten by Wildcats" during basketball season, so they came up with other names to call the team?

tom

P.S. Did you check out the s-series.org site yet?

tsjay

Hey, Bro., NONE of us have ALL the answers. We can learn from one another in here. Collectively, we probably have some pretty good knowledge.

Besides, differences of opinion make life interesting. This would be an awful boring place if we all had exactly the same knowledge and all held the very same opinions.

Stick around, Dude. Be part of the group. Learn stuff with the rest of us. Contribute stuff that you know. Express your opinions.

Later

tom