Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

adc100

Actuually I prefer, Big10 (PSU). But hey, whatever.

FYI: I have entirely too much time on my hands. This morning (thinking about zr2's post on efficiencies) I purchased a Purolator L25230 which will fit most Toyotas (PL10241 is standard). I have a year and 10,000 miles on my Toy Truck oil change so I slipped on this filter for a month or two. Its about 1 1/2 inches longer (same head, same relief setting, same diameter). Works fine. There was no Pure One equivalent for this L25230 that I say (could have missed it). So I now have an oversize filter for GM, Nissan and Toy. Later guys. BTW the info on head size/diameter/thread/relief setting is on p. 929 or 939(forget whch) of the Purolator book.

wayn1

Amsoil was the first 100% full synthetic oil in 1972. It was a 10W-40 oil.

zr2rando

Those holes probably don't make as much a difference as I think they do, it's just a thing with me, years ago I just realized that when I start getting into a subject I start thinking like when I was back at school about all the details..(yeah that place where they are confused about what animal they like to yell about , they are the TIGERS and there are TIGER PAWS painted on the interstate on-ramp to go to Auburn...the mascot is the EAGLE and they have one in a big net cage on campus...cool, they do call that part of BAMA the plains so I guess that fits too! I think it is just a big drinking thing personally!!!)
I did learn that sometimes all the small details can be as/more important than the one that is the most obvious...those small holes probably force the oil to strain through more paper folds so they may actually help...either way every componant contributes a little more press-drop..
Was there ever a "Tigers beaten by Wildcats" headline? Must have missed that one...he he
I have that s-series bookmarked now , it does have lots of sections, I'll be going through it soon.
BOTTGERS, I second that motion we ALL are contributing here..
ADC100, BIG-10? they had a article in Playboy a couple months back didn't they? SEC did too! I almost wanted to go back and visit..I got that CHEM-ENG back in 1984. Did you notice any difference in oil-p with that new filter?
Long time ago I put on a Hastings (I think) filter (packed with cotton instead of paper and I really noticed HIGH oil-p immediately with that one (1976 280-z) took it off the next day, that's actually the only time I remember ever noticing a filter make a difference

I'm at the end of my work weekend now, off work now till next week,,,relaxin,,,hear from yall soon,
Back to my tequila...

spokane

Automotive engine oil pumps are "positive displacement" pumps which means they will deliver a specific volume of oil for each pump revolution as long as the pump inlet is not starved. Since these pumps are capable of providing extremely high pressures which could cause damage, a pressure relief valve is provided at the pump discharge. This valve limits the pump discharge pressure by venting excess oil back to the sump. Perhaps some of us have confused this relief valve with the oil filter's by-pass valve. The filter by-pass valve, located downstream of the oil pump relief valve, is technically also a relief valve but its purpose is to allow oil to by-pass the filter media if the pressure drop across the media exceeds the pre-set amount; usually about 9 PSI. As others have explained, the filter by-pass function can be accomplished by a valve either integral to the filter assembly or built into the engine; depending the engine type. This "by-passed" oil, of course, flows into the oil feed channel to supply the bearings just as does the filtered oil.

tsjay

COOL! Thanks for the info!

tom

tsjay

Enjoy your time off, Dude!

tom

zr2rando

Basically you're saying there are 2 relief valves, first at the pump to bleed excess initial pressure, and 2nd at the filter to prevent filter caused low flow probs...that makes good sense..cool...thanks for the help here....and I am still sippin folks
War Tigers!!! wait aminute!!! later
Rando

tsjay

You got AIM so we can chat? Or else, there's a chat room at S-series.org we could use.

Would enjoy chatting some time, since we are fellow S10 owners, and maybe I can make a Wildcat fan out of you.

If nothing else, just email me...

tjoh298765@aol.com

later

tom

bd21

I have read every message on this board and I'm surprised there is not one single valid test that might shed some light on all of the conjecture on the "best filter". The only facts are from cutting up filters and guessing what their performance might be. You have got to be kidding. The only real issue I read, was a 10 PSI drop that some trucks noted using a MOBILE ONE filter. That is a problem that would steer me clear of that particular application. And what is up with all of the the FRAM bashing. Just because the ends have a cardboard type material. Who has the facts that show it is a real problem and that it doesn't do its job? The bottom line is as long as the filter is for the proper application and meets the manufacturer's requirements, it is a good filter. Yes you can spend 3 to 5 times as much for an approved filter, but why should you. I have an extensive maintenance background and I do regular 3,000 mile oil changes and I keep my cars 10 to 15 years. I have never had an internal engine failure and for the record I have always used FRAM, because they are the best bang for the buck. I started using them because I read a real engineering report that was published in Consumer Reports and at the time(which was many years ago) FRAM blew away everything made for its ability to filter out particles. Now I know that is old info and there are some filters that can filter more particles, but you don't have to trap every speck. Engines are a little tougher than that. If you truly want your engine to last as long as possible, than always use synthetic oil after the first 5,000 miles and always do 3,000 mile oil changes. And most importantly install an electric engine pre-oiler! FACT: 85 percent of engine wear takes place during engine start-up. A per-oiler builds oil pressure and distributes oil through the engine before the engine actually starts. This is all overkill, but it will give you the least possible wear on your engine. I suspect most of you don't keep cars with over 300,000 miles on them, but this will get you engine to that point. The rest of the car well probably not hold up as well though. If someone has some real data, I'd love to see it.

seelig

i posted my findings to a fellow rado owner, and have since been bashed by some crybaby that can't answer my questions, and won't agree that the Mobil 1 filter is the best.....LOL
the last few posts have been quite educating though thanks to ZR2. thanks pal.

tsjay

Maybe that's the point... there is no "best" filter, just many good ones???

If you have read all the posts, you ought to know that I sort of feel like you do. I have also wondered if those real expensive, highly efficient filters really contribute to engine life.

It must be just about impossible to prove, in the real world at least, which filter is the best. Filters can be compared on test stand results, but who says that the ones that have the best test stand results really make your engine last any longer?

I am very interested in that pre-oiler you mentioned. I have always heard just what you said... that almost all engine wear occurs on cold starts. I've even wondered if block heaters would be good for an engine, even where the winter temps aren't severe, just to keep the oil warm enough to start circulating faster on cold starts. I know that block heaters heat the coolant, but wouldn't this also make the oil warm up a little faster? Maybe not.

tom

bd21

It you live in a cold area, a block heater will absolutely enable the oil to flow quicker during start-up. Also, the lowest weight oil you can get away with makes a big difference in engine wear. Mobil 1 makes a Zero W 50. It doesn't get any better than that, but only if your manufacturer will let you use it and still cover you for warranty. I have to use a 5W-20 in my 2001 Honda. With rare exception, most new cars call for a 5W-30 oil. I may as well go for broke here, engine oil is engine oil too, as long as it has an rating of SJ. You can spend 85 cents or $2.50, it's just the name you are paying for. Synthetic or Synthetic blends are the exception, they are lab tested superior in every way. But you have to decide if the additional cost is worth it to you. I use the 85 cent stuff in my 11 year old car and I forced to use $1.25 stuff in my Honda, because of limited availability of 5W-20. You will have to go to an engine speed shop to get a pre-oiler.

pepper32

bd21, the best way to heat oil is to use a oil pan heater. Block heaters warm coolant and since heat rises not much is getting down to the oil pan.

spokane

I am not a FRAM advocate, but I agree that the paperboard ends are not necessarily bad. They only need to accommodate a pressure differential of ~9 psi. Indeed, every brand uses paper for the filter media, which is subjected to the same pressure differential without collapsing or rupturing. And, could the adhesion of the sealant perhaps be even better with paperboard than with steel? Scientific testing of both filtration performance and durability is tough and I can't fault some of the folks here for using the best information they can dig out to predict small performance differences. I haven't really been able to detect check-valve (anti-drain back) performance differences although an engine with a worn oil pump might reveal brand-to-brand differences in drain-back.

I agree, BD21, that the best filter is the one that you don't try to use for too many miles. I'd much prefer to use two $3 name-brand filters in 6000 miles in place of using one $6 filter to cover the same distance.

adc100

I don't believe that there is any doubt that when it comes to the "best" filter, we have to define what "best" is some filter brands advertise their single and multi-pass efficiencies (Mobil 1, Pure One, SuperTech) I believe Amsoil is a good filter but there's do information as far as I know on their efficiencies. The question is: Is more oil better than cleaner oil? Its probably a matter of degree. If you change every 3K it probably doesn't matter.

I prefer less work, so I change oil every 10 months to a year and put on a new filter (high efficiency) in the middle of that time period. Mobil has run tests where they have changed oil every 15K and put on a new filter (not high efficiency) After 200K there is virtually no engine wear.

I'm thinking if you use conventional oil n a very cold climate you are better off with a low effcency filter.
bd21: Changing syn every 3K is a terrible economic decision. Also syn oil can be put in engines these days right at the factory. You are dealing with old information (which was never accurate). There is no evidence that rings will not seat with syn oil-its a myth. Also: I don't beleve Mobil makes a 0W-50. its a 15W-50. Even if they did, that would not be a good choice because a large difference in the numbers requires more "goo" which breaks down quicker than the base fluid. Thats why I prefer 10W-30 syn vs 5W or 0W. That still flows better than a 0W conventional oil.

zr2rando

BD21 , We all wish we could find an honest scientific side by side comparison for these things but so far we really only find observation information, and that can definitely start opinions all by itself, just watching any commercial on tv shows that. I personally bash the FRAMs because of 2 reasons, 1)the ones I checked that had a relief valve had a WEAK relief valve and seemed to me that they would bypass most of the time. 2) I used to always have a LOT of valve train noise on the truck after starting up until the engine warmed up, then I changed the filter (only) to a different brand (AC), the noise never came back, just changing the filter and still using dirty oil that engine never made valve train noise in the morning again))
I read the same reports you did years ago that said they were the best and for years that is all I ever bought. My 1976 280z went 189000 miles and my 1989 Nissan truck has 180k on it now, the 1976 always had them and the 1989 had them up until a couple years ago so they must work well enough, still after looking at them NOW, Most of the others give me more confidence than the FRAMS do...The internal construction just looks cheaper and more prone to 1 out of xxxx failures than the others. The paper looks fine, the ends look cheap, the bypass probably bypasses alot and if that is the case...I'm glad I change oil every 3k. All of our opinions on here add up to a lot of various points of view which helps us all see things from other's sides, I have learned a lot on here, I don't always think everyone else on here is right but I do always think about how their opinion is different from mine and sometimes it does make me check into what they say, a lot of things I have seen on here have changed what I consider to be the best/worst/smart/stupid/true/false ...
I'm sure my opinions don't always ride well with others but I hope it at least gives a point of view they may not have been seen before? hopefully my experience can help others, other's have already helped me.
It's coffee time now folks, maybe before long we will find a GOOD SCIENTIFIC filter test and then we can start bashing (analyzing) IT!! see y'all in a little bit
Rando

tsjay

You must not have hit the tequila too hard last night- you're up awful early!

tom

bd21

Rando, your observations do show several considerations. I have been opening my friends filters with a hack saw to have a look inside for years. It would just be nice to have an independent lab test the filters for flow and failure data. Until that happens, everybody needs to do the best they can for their engine, which is change the oil and filter at 3,000 to 5,000 miles depending on your driving habits.
Abc100, Mobile 1 does make a 0w-50 syn oil. That Goo is necessary stuff if you want the 50W for desert dwellers. I read the entire 200,000 Mobile test and I would like to give you some insight. They did some treatments along way. The short report happen to live that out. The oil itself didn't break down, but all of the contaminates associated with the combustion process still get in the oil. No filter in the world, not even Mobile One will clean these types of contaminates out of an oil. They have to be removed oil or the oil loses some of its lubricating properties. You can go 7,500 with your syn oil, but if you are going to push it much higher than that you would come out ahead using regular oil with 3,000 mile oil changes.

armtdm

Well, I go 12,000 between changes on a few cars with a filter at 6 months or 6000 whichever comes first. I use Amsoil oil and filters (except one car which is a Pure One) I have never gone the 12,500 on a filter that Amsoil claims can be done but they seem to work fine for 7,500 which I do on one car, oil analysis is fine.

If you change the oil every 3000 miles, IMHO you can run your car without a filter, in that short a period of time I feel it is a useless option. That is why all the posters that say they use Fram and go the long distances on engines all change their oil every 3000. A good filter or bad filter (like Fram) in 3000 miles makes no difference so keep using the Fram if you chnage every 3000 miles. Anyone can get 100,000 + miles using the least expensive oil and cheapest filter on the market if you change it every 3000 miles.

Further, bypass filters do remove all the contaminates and water as well but are they worth the cost and inmost cars today there is no place to mount them.

bottgers

tsjay

I love discussing these issues with you folks, but it's gets very difficult to continue posting when someone basically tells me that I'm full of $hit, or I'm a liar just because I can't remember the site address of the lab study I read. I know what I read, and it wasn't some oil company sponsered lab test, it was conducted by an INDEPEDANT lab. Their findings were that the Mobil 1 filter is the best, and that Frams are junk. Someone claiming that the Mobil filter caused a drop in pressure during their "garage experiment" carries little weight when compared to lab testing. If there was a flow rate problem with the Mobil filter, it certainly would've showed itself during lab testing.

bd21

Changing synthetic oil every 3,000 miles is a total waste of money. I run mine for 10,000 miles, and could probably go longer. Syn doesn't break down like dyno does. If you use a good filter (Mobil 1, Pure One, K&N, or Amzoil), there's no reason to change syn before 10,000 miles.

zr2rando

When we talk about these comparisons , whether it is lab or garage, you have to pay attention to the GOAL of the test, it's the only thing that gets tested for ..
If you are looking for efficiancy, one may win and another looses,
looking for flow rate it will likely be the other way around.
If a person wants efficiancy guess which one he buys, if one wants max flow he gets something else.
Those garage experiments probably sell more/less of these products than any actual tests do because most people (if they really want to compare) only have access to certain brands anyway and sometimes when you talk to someone (like me for example) I may tell you about the noise my truck use to make and that may be the only reference you care about, it may stear you away from a certain brand just because of 1 issue.
It certainly made me stay away from FRAM for example...but not all filters have the bypass so the others may be fine, but I still don't buy them.
Those holes on the inside tube for example? I know that the smaller the hole(even if there is more of them) cause more resistance to flow especially for thick oil (the edge of the hole causes the restriction and the smaller the hole the more edge/area ratio there is and there ya go.
I usually rather get the filters with bigger inside tube holes for that reason, even if the paper is considered average quality..so it really just matters what is impt to YOU. Your best is not neccessarily mine. I would LOVE to see independant lab tests that compare everything objectively, they should only print results though and they should only list winners in each category tested, overall winner is in the eyes of the user,,,and depending on where you live, you may not be able to get that brand anyway (or consider the cost worth the marginal benefits sometimes, someof us keep the vehicle forever and will gladly pay $10 per filter, I keep vehicles forever too but I don't care how good anyone says the MOBIL1 filter is, I don't buy them. If you want them though go right ahead no problem. I don't leave oil in a vehicle very long 3k/3 months because I know the contaminants are not all physical and filters only take out physical contaminants, they don't do a thing for changing ph or the VI componants breaking down into smaller molecules..which they do under normal use..or any other chemical change that happens normally given the effects of combustion/hot/cold.
Vaporization of the lighter componants also occurs -the oil gradually gets thicker as well just because of that let alone the chemical changes.
only thing you can do is replace the oil to keep those type things under control...I'm sure synthetics handle that better than std petro oil but I don't have a problem changing the oil myself and it costs too little to worry about it.
Just using common sense and paying attention to what matters to you will usually get you through the day a little more verticle...If we all thought the same filter/oil was the best there would only be 1 kind to pick from and what a boring place this edmunds page would be huh?
Now can anybody find one of those objective lab tests we would all love to see?
whos next?

adc100

Mobil 1 does not make a 0W-50 oil. I just got off of the phone with them. Also I am curious as to why you said you are ahead changing every 3K miles when as I said Mobil 1 has tested to 15K with almost zero wear. Isn't that good enough?? BTW I have read the long SAE report on these 15K tests. The additive package holds up fine after 15K. Obviously Amsoil has run smilar tests. Oh and BTW even Mobil 1 has run 25K oil change tests and apparently all was well.
zr2: I wish I had the luxury of doing 3K oil changes, but I deal with 8 vehcles. Not even a retired old man like me can deal with that and 3K changes.

Armtdm as usual hit the nail on the head.

zr2rando

If I had 8 vehicles these days I would go the synthetic oil/extended interval/2 filter route also. At this point though it gives me the opportunity to check any squeaks/rattles/leaks etc
so I don't have a problem with it...I have 3 (1989 nissan truck/1995 Chev Blazer/1999 Chev ZR2)
so I just use that time for maintenance hour/happy hour tinker time
Have a good day!
Rando

seelig

it was me that posted about the Mobil 1 filter and that it delivered a lower oil pressure reading. it wasn't really a "garage experiment" though. it was placed in service after reading the test that i no longer have a link too. in that test, it rated the Mobil filter as ONE of the best. hmmm, good enough for me, and 2 others i kept in contact with. problem was that for some reason we all saw a pressure drop. don't know why or whether it would have caused any harm, but going back to the AC Delco filter brought the pressure back to where it was suppose to be. it was an expensive guess too, cause not only was i out 10 bucks, but the vortecs hold 6 qts. too. that's 6 qts. of Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 filter, so i threw away about 40 bucks. something i wish could be explained though, is why did using the filter exhibit lower oil pressure. so, in the interest of sparing your feelings, please understand that my original posting was for the person who originally inquired about oil filters for their silverado. i had no idea it was going to get you so bent out of shape and cause all this commotion.

bottgers

.....how could I stay mad? Though I prefer the Mobil filters, I have no problem with the Pure One either. Both are very good filters. I realize everyone is going to have their preferences, and their reasons for them. I just wish I could find that lab test to post on here. It really was a very non-biased, comprehensive test.

tsjay

Hallelujah, Brothers!

We are all one big happy family now! That's more like it.

Now, let's have some more great discussion about filters, with no personal attacks.

Hey, if this stuff wasn't controversial, it wouldn't be any fun, would it?

If someone ever came up with irrefutable proof that one particular filter was "the best," then that would be the end of this discussion.

Take the Ky Wildcats, for example. Everyone knows that they are the greatest basketball program ever, so there's no need for any discussion.

tom

zr2rando

davisjd

I am the one who asked about the the Mobil 1 Oil Filter and it's effect on the oil pressure in the 5.3L Silverado engines. I had read seelig's post in the past, either here or at GM-Trucks.com and was curious. I just purchased a 2001 and had always had good luck in the past with all of Mobil's products. I guess I was worried about the drop in pressure and wanted to know if anyone could explain it or explain that it would not harm my new truck. Anyways, I am glad I asked because I have learned even more since the question. But I had no intention of starting anything. I did use Mobil 1 Synthetic for my first oil change but decided I better stick with the AC Delco PF59 that came on the truck (not the exact same one, I bought one like it!Ha Ha). Thanks for all your knowledge.

adc100

you will have no problem no matter what filter you use. If a 2.3L ford can hold up for a half year wth a 75% plugged oil pump in wintertime and no syn oil (mine) don't sweat the small stuff.

csandste

It seems like I read (maybe in the MiniMopar or Acura filter studies) that there were some problems with Mobil 1 filters splitting. Since their construction is typical Champion Labs, I'm wondering if these incidents were due to the higher filtration rate. What changes this would make re. pressure in the rest of the engine I certainly couldn't say. I'll try to get my old files back tomorrow and my memory's none too good, but seems I did read this somewhere before. There are several versions of the MiniMopar study out there that have considerable variation in them.

bd21

This is fun. I had 0W-50 on the brain you are correct, they make 0W-30. Rando, eight vehicles. How do you afford car insurance? There is no doubt syn is by far the best and I think Mobil One filters are probably the best ones you can buy, but I just can't justify the cost. Paying 38 bucks just for a filter and five quarts of syn is a bit much for me. No matter what some literature says, I would never exceed 7,500 mile between oil changes. I spend less than 8 bucks per oil change, but I do them myself. Also, I agree that under certain applications some people will have bad results with a filter including Mobil One and of course Fram. I would steer clear of any product that gave me a bad experience. Gentleman keep looking for those reports. It is apparent we all like our cars and want to do the best things for them.
Take Care,
Barry

tsjay

I think it is adc100 that has eight vehicles that he changes the oil on, not Rando.

tom

robz3

Why would anyone use a partial synthetic oil? Seems to me that you really don't get anything and you just pay more. Either go full synth or full regular. Thoughts?

On a partially related note, what would you use on a Suburban 5.3L engine? Full synthetic doesn't seem appropriate since it's so expensive to do an oil change that way and it's not like the engine revs high on them (not like a more performance oriented engine would be).

brorjace

Everyone, I brought the Synthetic Oil thread back up to the top of the page with a post and in which I responded to some points made previously in this thread.

Tom/tsjay, I must commend you on your professionalism. While people here have asked you repeatedly to name names with regards to which brand of filter is better than another, you refused and instead have firmly stated that you were in the business, didn't want to offend customers (or potential customers) and liked keeping your job.

I on the other hand, wouldn't take this approach at all. While under the cover of anonymity, I'd use the opportunity afforded me by the internet to expose the slimeballs and sleazebags that populate just about every industry.

For example, when I was a brake pad/friction materials sales representative nearly 10 years ago, I ran across competitors products that were not merely lousy, or poor quality, but they appeared to be so bad that they were completely unsafe. Brake pad linings that one could easily crumble with your finger tips but were less than half the price of the quality pads I sold at the time (Mintex/Cantex). And then there were companies like Wagner and EIS that sold a brake pads in 3 quality levels. very good, so-so and downright awful. I got the impression that people thought they were doing themselves a favor by buying the lowest of the three grades at a moderate price (even if it was awful stuff) just because it had a brand name on the box. I wish I had the opportunity to tell people the truth which was this respected brand name was selling pads that were borderline unsafe.

Most people want products that are inexpensive and often don't put enough thought into their purchases to realize the folly of some of their decisions. I think most folks assumed that if a given set of cheap pads were really unsafe, they wouldn't be allowed to be sold to the general public. And of course, the retailers were afraid the shop down the road would carry this garbage and undercut them on price so they carried a comparable (abysmal) brand as well. Dealing with this mentality while on the road (selling on commission) was more than a little frustrating. If the internet had existed then, like it does now, I would have used it to exact a little revenge. It's only fair that people know what's really going on ... aside from the paid commercial hype about products. But I guess that's just the way I look at things. >;^)

And even as an outsider, I will take occasional potshots at companies like Castrol USA that are doing things I consider sleazy like surreptitiously switching their synthetic formula to something that can be argued is NOT synthetic at all ... while maintaining a $4.50 per quart retail price. There's something 'just' about it to me. >:^)

So, Tom, you've made your decision to conduct yourself in a different way and I won't badger you to shed light on any scoundrels you might know of. But (and there's always a "but" isn't there?) maybe you can answer this generic question: Do you know if there are any filters on the market that are really unsuitable for their intended purpose because of a faulty design or overall poor quality? I'm not looking for specific brand names, of course, but as you can tell, many of us put an awful lot of thought and energy when picking out automotive parts and fluids. Are we just wasting our time when it comes to oil filters? I'm just looking for a general industry comment. As you can tell from my story above, I think that some disc brake pads were so bad they shouldn't have even been on the shelves. Can you give me/us an idea of the state of the oil filter market and if there is anything comparable going on? Thanks.

--- Bror Jace

bottgers

I think these synthetic blends are nothing more than a marketing ploy for the oil companies to get more of our money. I read somewhere on the internet (again, I don't remember the site address, so please don't hammer me) that none of the blends contain more than 10% synthetic. If you want a blend, you're better off adding one quart of full synthetic to four quarts of dyno at your next oil change. Assuming your oil change requires 5 quarts, this would give you a 20% mixture of synthetic. Just my $.02.

adc100

I only own 3, the rest are extended family-son, daughter, mother-in-law. You are right- couldn't afford the insurance.
robz3 I agree-blends are a waste. I've seen the 10% number also. I don't think that syn is a bad thing to use on the 5.3 (5.7??). How many vehicles are performance vehicles these days. Better gas milage, better starting in winter, and longer drain intervals are good for any vehicle.

I do believe that tsjay indicated that they sold their better paper to Pure One. I would think that would be reasonable information to give.

tsjay

I can honestly say that I know of no filters out there in the marketplace that would be so shoddy or so inapropriate for use as to be a danger to the life of the engine. I hope that if I really felt that there were such filters, I could figure out some way to warn everyone.

I'm afraid this "anonymity" that you refer to doesn't really exist in my case. There are only four companies in the U.S. that make automotive filter paper, and one of them leaves the market as of tomorrow. (That company will change their focus to other paper products.) By identifying myself as the technical director for a mill that produces automotive oil filter paper, I gave up any hope of anonymity.

I thought the group would be better served by knowing my credentials, so that they would understand that I am speaking from experience and am not some crackpot spouting off a bunch of garbage.

I suppose that if I really knew of some filter out there that would almost certainly cause engine failure, then I could have taken the "anonymous" approach when I came to this group.

I came here to provide some background info on filter media and to share what I know about filters in general. I knew you guys would be interested in this technical info, and there just aren't that many people in a position to give it to you. I certainly did not come here to steer anyone to or away from any particular filter.

It has been fun, and I hope that I have provided some information that has been at least interesting, if not useful.

tom

seelig

that article on syn-blend, and the website is still around. i'm going to ask some of the guys i talk to on the pickup threads, and see if i can get the link to it and the filter test.
Bottgers- funny you should mention the 4&1 thing, as i overheard a kid and his dad talking about the blended oils, and the boys father told him just to use 4 of the dino, and 1 syn. LOL
this was at wal-mart

zr2rando

Tsjay , you could create an alias name and log on as it every now and then,,,,,sneaky huh?
Anybody been using the Castrol filters from Kmart, I think they are the WIX brand and those should be pretty good,especially the "plus (black) or Napa Gold" version?

seelig

what brand do chain quickee lube joints use? i've seen a few where they aren't marked, (especially my in-laws) and they are always different colors.
they have gone to 1 place at least a 1/2 dozen times, and i've seen at least 3 different colored filters with no identifying markings.

zr2rando

Tsjay , you could create an alias name and log on as it every now and then,,,,,sneaky huh?
Anybody been using the Castrol filters from Kmart, I think they are the WIX brand and those should be pretty good,especially the "plus (black) or Napa Gold" version?

tsjay

At least one filter manufacturer that I know of used to make filters silk screened with any logo you might want on them. If you placed an order large enough, for example, and you owned a car dealership, you could have your dealership name silk screened onto the filter. I'm sure that was pretty unusual, and I don't know what the minimum order size would have been.

Oh, and these were good filters too. Nothing wrong with them at all.

tom

seelig

thanks. i kinda figured they were ok filters, since it wouldn't be to there advantage to use some junko filter that would end up costing them money. no, they leave that to the monkeys they hire......LOL

armtdm

You are concerned about the cost of using synthetic and a Mobil 1 filter on the engine due to capacity and cost. Again, if you change the oil every 3000 miles use dino and Fram. Synthetics are only cost effective at 7,500 miles or higher. The dino and Fram,changed every 3000 miles will give you the same engine life as synthetics with extended drains. So if you are concerned with cost and "not hassle" go with dino. If you live in a cold climate, zero or below in the winter synthetic is the only way to go though!

zr2rando

correction "dino and ABF" (anybody but Fram)..
man I gotta quit doing that!!

bottgers

I'm not so sure that any change interval using dyno will give the same amount of engine life as full synthetic will. Full synthetic offers many other benefits over dyno besides just longer change intervals, all of which directly contribute to longer engine life. I don't believe an engine using dyno and Fram filters with change intervals at every 3,000 miles will last as long as the same engine using full synthetic and Mobil or Pure One filters at 10,000 mile intervals. Of course I'm not an engineer, and if I'm wrong, please tell me why. Thanks.

zr2rando

BOTTGERS, your probably right, the best available oil/filter these days may keep the engine in good shape lubrication wise longer than standard oil/filter will,,,but how many people keep a car long enough to realize the cost difference..more and more people are leasing these days
I keep cars a long time myself but I am still going to get rid of it when I start having to make those 1 everymonth repairs that start nickel/diming you to death and leave the vehicle sitting until some part gets ordered or found in a junkyard,,,My 1989 Nissan has a wiring harness now that I have had to manually reshape one of the plug connections to make a good electrical connection at the fuel pump, Nissan no longer makes the harness, now you have to buy the whole pump assembly, I am still looking around salvage yards for it but have not found one yet. Thats an example ..
That engine still has good compression, does not burn oil, does have a little bearing noise but STP helps that now, and it has always used regular oil/filters...So the BEST oil/filter very likely does the most good actually for the second owner,,,,but I am sure it also helps sell the vehicle too so it does have that benefit ..
see ya in a bit
Rando

bottgers

How long a person intends to keep a car should be an important factor in determining how much you should spend on preventitive maintenance. I recently purchased an '84 Honda Accord with 170,000 miles on it. I don't know what type of oil or filters the previous two owners used, but I can tell the car has been well cared for. The engine is clean, has no leaks, uses no oil, and it runs like a new engine. I plan to put at least another 100,000 miles on this car, so I'll be using full synthetic oil and a Mobil 1 or Pure One filter.

My wife's car is a '98 Intrepid, which we leased as a new car for 5 years. We may buy out the lease at the end it's term, so I have been giving it the same treatment as my Honda gets. Had we decided from the beginning to trade this car at the end of the lease, I probably would've chosen to just go with dyno oil and $3 or $4 filters. I do believe using full synthetic and the good filters allows engines to run many more trouble free miles than does using dyno and the cheap filters.

armtdm

Well, problem is that there are no long term studies comparing dino to synthetic at various mileage points or times. So the answer to longevity is, who knows. Most claims of longevity are not the normal person, that is over a 10 year period will put on 150,000 miles with grocery shopping, commuting etc. What we get are studies of taxi cabs, police cars, the person that puts on 30,000 miles a year (all hghway etc.) Nothing close to normal day to day driving, which, as we all know, is the most grueling for a car.

No company seems to sponosr a 10 year driving study of their oil. They need the data quickly so we get the abnormal test situations. We have tons of people on this board that have 100,000-300,000 miles and will swear by their methods. Cannot disagree but also the methods or tests were not scientifically performed either.

So, I cannot prove that dino and Fram every 3000 miles will last the same as synthetic and extended drains nor that the synthetic can protect better. But, no one has studies to say the opposite either. Not a one test ever done on average driving conditions over a long, long period of time.

bottgers

.....but I've read many studies on the internet where the two types of oils have been broken down and anylized. The results have shown that Synthetic is superior in every way to conventional. This would lead one to believe (it has lead me to believe anyway) that using syn will provide longer engine life. I agree with you in that there haven't been any long term tests conducted to actually prove this theory, at least none that I've seen anyway. Such a test would certainly make things a lot easier.