Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

fleetwoodsimca

The projections for petroleum availability in the future are for no less than an ample supply for a minimum of 100 years, and with just a moderate amount of technological development in alternative sources, that 100 years will stretch way out. Now, as long as the oil companies are a major driving force of world economies, you may rest assured that alternative sources will not supersede oil until the last drop is sold! Your grandchildren will have all the gas they can waste for the entirety of their lives, although their kids probably won't want much gas, be it then that some other entity will be in the forefront as the major energy source. Petroleum, by its very nature is not renewable. But it doesn't matter. Whatever replaces it will simply replace it.

spokane

Consider a vehicle that travels 6000 miles at 24 MPG and has the motor oil replaced once. Some 250 gallons of fuel and one gallon of oil were consumed - for a total of 251 gallons of petroleum products. If the oil was changed twice, at 3000-mile intervals, this total increases from 251 to 252 gallons - a very small increase.

From this perspective, doesn't it seem that attention to engine tune and driving habits are much more significant to the environment than is the possible too-frequent oil change frequency? Indeed, frequent oil changes are a distinct factor in maintaining good fuel efficiency as the engine ages.

adc100

I agree with you. I am not a Greenpeace advocate and I agree with Bush on many things. But the "science" of Corporate sponsored "scientists" obviously gives the answers that the oil industry and GM want to hear. So the argument between scientists is really an argument betweem scientists and industrialists for the most part.

We know that the earth is in a warmup cycle and for it to happen so quickly really defies common sense. Both southern and northern ice caps melting and 9 out of the last summers the warmest on record. Warmups can happen, but not that fast. Naturally politicians follow the trail of money.

We'll worry about it when a piece of ice comes down to New York and scrapes a portion of Manhatten away.

And really the supply of oil is not the question. Few think to question that as CO2 increases oxygen is decreasing. That's the scary part.

Oh well-support terrorism-buy an SUV!!

opera_house_wk

Fresh clean oil will save a gallon of gas in that time period. The oil does thicken as it gets older. It doesn't take much to change mileage 1/4%.

fleetwoodsimca

Currently, only .09 degrees rise in temperature per decade can be associated with activities of mankind. The rest is from other/natural sources. NOW! Go forth and buy those WIX and CHAMPION produced filters! All will be well... (:oÞ

wain

Maybe we should change every 2000 miles or maybe every 1500.
get the idea? No one knows.

adc100

That modle was proven false in the last couple of years. I am away on vacation, when I return I'll get at least the information I have from the Nat Acad. of Science and Scientific American. Perhaps you can give me your references.

fleetwoodsimca

An astrophysicist from Harvard University and the Smithsonian Institute gave a speech at Hillsdale College some few months ago, and part or all of that speech was printed in the most recent issue of Imprimis, the Hillsdale College publication that they mail out to subscribers. I mailed my copy to another person, so I am unable to quote directly. I am rather sure my reportage above is quite accurate.

textruckr

I started this thread a while back, and was able to get quite a bit of good information from it. Thanks to all of you who have contributed to the discussion. Especially helpful were the posts on the different types of filter media.
I have spread the word about Fram to everyone I know. I was a brand loyal customer of them until I found out about their cardboard construction and poorly functioning anti-drainback diaphragm.
Texas Trucker

fleetwoodsimca

...pick a single brand and declare it the best, but we surely have developed a rationale for using several brands on the basis of quality and economy. I, too, have truly profited from the valuable input found in this thread.

ywilson

I have found alot of good info from going through all the threads that I feel concern me. Great site !!!

longo32

Does anyone know if there is a change over to a larger filter for a 1997 Buick Park Ave. Ultra?
the OEM filter for the 3.8 V6 is a tiny little thing not much bigger than a coffee cup. For a hard working supercharged engine I don't think much of GM's choice.

adc100

If its the equivalant of the PF-47(AC) you can use the equivalant of PF-52 (AC) which is HP-2001 (K&N, my favorite), PL-24011 (Pure One) etc. Make sure it is far enough away from the frame when engine rocks on its mounts.

Al

armtdm

The Amsoil SDF 29 is a larger filter and works on this engine in my Regal.

csandste

I was having some exhaust work done on my daughter's car at a Car-X shop when I discovered I had a leaky valve cover gasket. The mechanic insisted on doing an oil change even though I just had one stating that most of the oil would be lost. In addition he used a Valvoline oil filter insisting that Valvoline manufactured their own. Does anyone know who makes Valvoline filters? Not Fram, I hope. There is no mention of filters on their web page that I can see.

I did [non-permissible content removed] enough that he gave me a card for a future free oil change. Free oil and $20 for the genuine Valvoline filter, maybe?

longo32

Thanks acd100 and armtdm,
I will take in one of my PureOne 10111's and line it up against
the PL 24011 and see how it checks out.
The GM 3.8 V6's don't give you much room to get the filter in and out, but once you spin it on, there should be enough room for a bigger case. I love the design of the 'PureOne'..it looks like its built like a little blue bank vault.
That engines oil system has its own bypass filter built in, and the tiny 10111 is the special filter for that application...wonder if the bigger Pureones' , Amsoils, K&N's or other larger sized canisters mentioned, have the same internal specs' as AC's PF 47 ? And if not, does it really matter?

armtdm

Well, as this engine has the filter sitting vertical there really is no need for a drain back valve (all have them) but my point is no concern about functioning of it. From what you say, the engine has a bypass and most filters also have that so is that good or bad, I don't think it matters.

knapp3

Maybe Champ Labs???

http://www.salemboysauto.com/faqs/faq-30.htm

fleetwoodsimca

Can't wait to use my Roger Penske autograph models. Do you suppose Penske filters will increase your horsepower? (:oÞ

tboner1965

Only if they are yellow 8^) and you have a grapefruit shooter, ringed in neons on the backside of the car.

TB

adc100

They have the same specs. Neither has an internal bypass valve because the chev/gm engines have internal bypass. You can check this for your self by checking the Pure One book on page 930. They give the specs for the filters here. I have used both these filtere in multiple cars (at least 7 with no problems)

BTW, I am no longer a fan of the Pure One filters. After cutting a couple up and finding the wall thickness is only .010". Maybe not a big deal-but I'm uncomfortable.

Champion Lab Filters-(Mobil 1, K&N, and SuperTech) have a wall thickness of .017". Hastings and Bosch are .015".

The SuperTech (from WallyMart is an outstanding filter (its efficiencies are as good or better than Pure One. I have cut up one and they are very well made. The number here is ST 3980 . I just put one (oversize) on my son's Cav yesterday. Next time I get to Walmart I'm gouin go buy a half dozen so I have a reserve before they change suppliers. $1.97-unreal!!

longo32

Thanks adc100, sounds like you might have found the bottom line in this discussion of Who's got the Best Filters, but are They Screwing you on the Price? I think your $1.97 Wal Mart deal on the Super Tech's is about as close as anyone will come to the ultimate filter to stock up on, all things considered.
Taking into account that one only sees the filter twice in its life span, a heavier canister buried down there out of sight, would be a plus, but at that price, it's sounds like the perfect compromise
of all the things us Paranoid Oilheads lose sleep over. I will check availability of the ST 3980 for the Park Ave..BTW is there a larger Super Tech filter for the Dodge Caravan 3.3. ltr as well? Sorry I don't have a 'Filter Book' and most of the pages in the one at the local Wall Mart have been ripped off/out

adc100

I'll check the bood for the Caravan 3.3. What is the year and what is the filter #?

Later,
Al

fleetwoodsimca

We all love it when someone agrees with us, and I am plum tickled that you are strongly favoring the Walmart house-brand filters. I also am interested in the gauge of the sheetmetal in the canisters, and wonder if you have ever inspected the WIX-made house filters from K Mart for thickness. Please report ASAP. Roger wouldn't put his name on thin filters, would he? (:oÞ

wain

I think the wall thickness was ok on the castrol maxpro that i cut up
the filter media was on the short side - that made me make the statement that wix was cheating you.
castrol max pro (wix) 64 sq inches
Super tect wal mart 70 sq inches
purolater 94 sq in

purolater has 50% more area than wixcastrol. cost is about the same, hence I think wix is shorting you

adc100

According to the Oil Filter study the wall thickness is .014" which is O.K. although not as thick as the Champion.

http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

fleetwoodsimca

Many thanks. I was mostly interested in the Penske branded K Mart filters, thinking that the Castrol filters were not really any better, and the Penskes are priced like the Walmart filters.
Here's what I have boiled this down to:
Use either K Mart or Walmart "two dollar" filters. We must be diligent about any change of suppliers, or negative change of specifications.

knapp3

The new SuperTech filters have high SAE numbers. But at what Beta ratio and what micron size? They publish HS806 and J1858 SAE numbers. Purolator references J806 numbers. Looks to a layman like they are picking the test results that puts each in the most favorable light. How is the average consumer to know, and compare apples to apples?

longo32

In seeking a filter that has more capacity, but still fit the 1992 Dodge Caravan 3.3 ltr V6, a/t AWD, it would be a cross over for the Purolator #PL14670...Wix 51085 or Motorcraft FL-842. The 'test results' on the PureONE box rate it "#1 among leading brands A,B,and C"...BUT who knows what the "leading Brands" A.B,and CYA, might be? Not much hard info there, but it's their box,so I guess they can put anything on it they can legally manage

knapp3

So which is the best?

Filter MultiPass % SAE Test Micron Size
Mobil 1 96% (web site) ? 10-20
Mobil 1 95% (on box) J806 10-20
Pure 1 96% (box) J806 10-20
SuperTech 99% (box) J1857 ?
Fram EG 94% (box) J1857 ?
Fram TG 99% (box) J1857 >20
Bosch 93% (box) ? 15?(per 800 #)
K&N 90% (box,MP? or SP?)? 10-20

The single pass data also use different sources. SuperTech cites SAE HS806, Fram TG cites J806, Fram EG cites J1857, Mobil claims 98% with no SAE test identified, and I couldn't even find a SP % for Pure 1.

It gets even worse when you simply read the product literature on their web sites and else where. Purolator mentions that their Premium filter traps contaminate in the 10-20 micron size but offers no data to back it up. Dido for Fram, Nissan and some Motorcraft sites that mention 10-20 micron filtering ability, but no SAE data or reference test. And then there is Amsoil. They brag about HS806 numbers for "filter efficiency" and "filter capacity". Trouble is no one else cites those stats.

This is nuts! Almost enough to make one stick with the OEM filter. Maybe the manufacturer knows something the aftermarket guys don't want us to? Of course there is always a trusty dart.

longo32

knaap3,
Congrat's on all the leg work on those filter numbers. Too bad you didn't put in the store
prices on each . That's about the only REAL information left to us consumers, to make our final decision on filters AND oils. Weather we buy 'Leading Brand A, B or CYA'.. All the rest of those fancy graphs and info on the filter box is mostly marketing hype that goes this way.............

"Dazzelem with footwork and Baffelem with Bull"

The 'market place' will probably decide "who has the best Filter" and it will be the one with the studiest construction, excellent
multi pass' ratings, a large filter area, be readily available at the big Auto Parts Stores, AND, will cost under $2.00 ea.

bluedevils

Do you folks think ALL of the SuperTech filter models are good? I'm just trying to get an idea if the models for my vehicles are likely to be as good as the ones you guys have been cutting up and analyzing.

adc100

I don't believe the market place will decide the best filter on the basis of quality. Rather they will decide on the basis of marketing. Fortunately for those of us (including yourself) we can decide on the basis of quality. I personally believe all of the filters in today's world are more than adequate. One of the things that tells me that is that in 1992 Mobil 1 did tests by changine oil and filters in vehicles every 15K miles and after 200K engines were torn down and all wear parts came up to specifications for new parts. Now in those days filters were nowhere on the radar screen compared to filters of today. So the way I look at it any filter of today will take my vehicle longer than I will probably live (I'm 56). My only problem with some filters is the cheap construction of some filters which has been discussed (Fram) and for me the wall thickness Issue (Purolator=too thin for me). Thats why I only plan to use K&N, Mobil 1, or yes the $1.97 Supertech. Since I try to use a larger filter than specified I can't use the SuperTech in my Sentra bc they don't make one. I do have the K&N oversize on now for 4500 miles and the oil is still a light honey color. Now that may not be an objective observation of filter quality but it can't be bad.

bluedevils: Its almost certain, in my opinion that they are (SuperTech) all good. I forget the leter, but check acouple of filters and check the letter designation on the filter head, I think its a "Y". All should be the same (made by Champion Labs).

Later Guys.

joe3891

I can't find a pf 52 or equiv at Walmart.

fleetwoodsimca

Here's your chance to help K Mart stay in business! You can get a two dollar Penske (WIX) filter there for your Sentra. I say this, "recalling" that your Sentra uses the same filter as my Villager and Pathfinder.

wain

Feel like Donald Trump - get the Purolater filter for $2.47 - that 10 cents more per month on 6 month change and get 50% more filter area than the K Mart stuff.

Go for it.

csandste

1. The original Minimopar oil filter test stated that the Mobil 1 filter (Champion Labs) had extremely heavy duty construction, but that there had been some reports of the filter coming apart during service.

2. The Mark Salem posting stating that Champion Labs made Valvoline filters talked about filtering media being tied to expected oil viscosity, i.e. a car needing 5W30 needed different filtering media than a car needing a heavier weight oil.

Salem's radio show is syndicated in St. Louis (actually it's StL specific even though his shop is in Phoenix) and he usually seems pretty knowledgable. He constantly calls for lighter weight oils comparing 10W40 with peanut butter. Is he right that too heavy an oil will defeat some of the filters out there?

3. The discussion (synthetic oil posts) of the post SL grade oil having less protective abilities (converter burnout is more important than engine longevity--get it past 100K, and then who cares) has me rethinking STP for cars other than beaters. Salem's warning about higher viscosities gives me pause on the whole subject.

zr2rando

I have never cared much for high efficiency filters, I choose higher flow over higher efficiency...(and all filters work better after they collect a little dirt anyway,,they get more efficient as they get older anyhow in other words)If you need/want a high efficiency filter and want to use thicker oil or STP, I would recommend giving the engine a minute to warm up (any oil gets thinner after it gets warmer) and I believe most filters will do some bypassing if you start driving quickly with cold thick oil,,,,especially during the winter..
Probably not much of an issue during summer though

bigorange30

Read his report and there are a couple of good links to more information there as well.

http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

Talking to my Infiniti Service Representative, he says to use the factory filter no matter what kind of car it is. He said that Infiniti's has a check valve and its better to be safe than sorry. I am sure there are others that have a check valve and probably some that are better than the factory. I just bought a 2002 QX4 in January want to treat it right from the outset to make it last a long time.

bluedevils

Which is a smarter choice - a small but good filter, or a bigger filter that isn't quite as "good"?

I'm purposely not defining my terms.

What I'm wondering is, how important do you folks think the filtering area is vs. the quality of the filtering?

I'm intrigued by the SuperTech filters, but if the ST for my vehicle is really small, I'm wondering if I'm better off with a bigger filter that's not quite as well-regarded.

wain

I cut one open - area is average and the Nissan ruber anti drain back valve was weak in my opinion - much more flexible and thinner than a Purolater. You would think thinner and more flexible would be better but I have had rattle at start up twice on Infinitis after they sat a day. this is with factory filter and was a year ago. I tnink Nissan had some problem with their filters, I started using purolater or Mobil one - had the infiniti dealer put it on - they did not say a word - made me think they had heard the complaint b4

armtdm

About any filter on the market for your car will have the "check valve. That is the typical dealer hype fromToyota to Nissan to Ford etc.etc., aftermarket filters don't have the valve. Gimme a break. Do they also refine their own oil just like they make their own filters?????

knapp3

Quality or area? Thats a tough trade off. Normally you want both, an efficient filter with adequate capacity. If you don't get capapcity, the filter will go into bypass mode too early. If you don't get quality filtering, contaminents can get thru the filter. Either way you lose. If must chose...and you change the oil frequently, I'd go for quality. If you run extended drains, I'd go for area, or capacity.

Because the SuperTech filters are made by Champ, and given some of the previous comments about the filtering media Walmart uses in them by our resident filtering manufacturing guy, I'd say they are very worthy choices. But some are way too small! The Fram 7317 filter for a Nissan is the size of a small coffee mug. The SuperTech equivalent (6607 I think?) is the size of a large golf ball. So I'll pass on the SuperTech and go with other brands that I think have better area and quality. Some SuperTechs are comparable in size however, and I wouldn't be afraid to use them.

charlesb_la

Just a heads up. I was at the local Kmart that is closing down and they had a few Mobil1 oil filters left on clearance and you get 20% off of the clearance price so about $5 after the 20% off. Just know which one you need before you go, that place is a mess.

adc100

for the info. Haven't tried them yet. I probably will stick with the K&N right now.

wain If you are using the M1-108, I believe the M1-110(longer) will work.

Al

fleetwoodsimca

I think I'd go for a good sized pedestrian grade filter over a tiny super paper model. This is a preference that I can't justify!
adc100: Those K Mart WIX filters are a size I like... (:oÞ

mjbwrtr

i hate to be a pessimist, but how much actual engine life do you expect to "free up" by worrying for hours about which oil filter to use? lets face it...engines last about 300k, max. and most of the time, it isnt oil or filters which make the difference.

fleetwoodsimca

Apparently you have not seen some of the troubles that others of us have seen...

adc100

I think that some of us here are paranoid about products we replace on our car and we take extra care and research when we do on of the remaining things you can actually do yourself. Objectively it may not really matter a whole lot which filter you put on your car but.... based on the things I've read here and the things I have personally seen cuttting pu filters I will not use Purolator due to thin wall, nor Fram due to poor quality and wall thickness.
Well...I'm off to cut open a WIX.

Later,
Al

wain

you posted
wain If you are using the M1-108, I believe the M1-110(longer) will work.

whats that about?