Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

wain

I cut up the Nissan OE I took off my Maxima and compared it to the resuts from the 4 cyl Camry filters.
Anyone else cutting up filters?
Its easy, cut the case off with a hacksaw, then use a knife to cut out a 1 inch band all around - then measure that length.

The sizes I got were;
Camry 4 cyl
Purolater: 50.25 long x 1 7/8 high = 94.2 square inches
SuperTech : 40.5 x 1 3/4 high = 70.8 square inches
WIX 39.5 long x 1 5/8 high = 64.2 square inches

Nissan OE 42.25 x 2 3/8 = 100.3 square inches ????
This was a longer/taller filter but only had about the same area as the smaller Purolater
(for Maxima V 6) the antidrain back valve in the Nissan filter was very thin and did not have a lot of "body". Made in USA but I have never seen a relief valve like this one had

zr2rando

your hooked on the cutting up filter thing ain't ya, me too, I think we all are now that we are reading this stuff,,,it really does let you see what we are getting doesn't it???
So far I have cut up 4 versions of the filter my Chevy truck uses (AC-pf52), they are definitely NOT the same quality among the 4,,,
interesting huh?
see ya
Rando

fleetwoodsimca

Inquiring minds are demanding to know: Isn't this endeavor of cutting up used filters the source of a horrific mess? Are your local HAZMAT teams on call for you?(:oÞ

wain

were new - the cleanliness was almost worth the cost

WHY don't the mfg post on the filter what the internal area is????
Number one answer - they would lose sales!!!!!!!

I am a lifetime Enquirer subscriber - with home delivery.

zr2rando

I drain the oil out, then I use a toothpick to open up the anti-backflow valve and let it drain.
I hold it in a vice with holes up and cut with a hacksaw,,,not too bad.
but I stand in front of it looking stupid when the wife drives up...I'm so proud of my experiment...and she's like....."you're so weird..."...she's in there screaming right now because NCSU just scored...she's a BIG sports fan...cool huh?
We don't need the HAZMAT people....we have wives!

adc100

I would like to see a comparison. Anyone ever compare the two. It appears that the Bosch is a little lighter than the Mobil 1. I am thinking it is the wall thickness. Both Champion Labs.

vwracer

I have cut open a few filters and they aren't that messy if you drain them first. I start with a 3lb coffee can then take a soup can and cut both ends out to get a tube. Put soup can inside coffee can and set filter upside down on top of soup can. Drill a 1/4 inch hole on top. Let sit 2-3 days. Flip filter over so oil can drip out the hole you drilled in the bottom. Let sit 2-3 days.

fleetwoodsimca

I find the information on the techniques you employ in the studies to be very interesting. I now see that you have devised a reasonable way to deal with the mess! If you guys get the time, an investigation into the Mobil 1 filter versus it's parent company filters (Champion) would be outstanding, just as suggested by adc100.

wain

hey you can do it too - go buy some and help out

adc100

Model ST 6607
Manufacturer Champion Labs
Single Pass 98%
Multipass 94%
SAE HS808
Note: Newer Versions of Supertech advertise 99%/98% (I believe)

Inlet Holes- 6- 1/4" -- Area .296 sq. in.

Filter Media Yellow Resin??
Pleats- 43
Area - Approx 47 sq. in.
Cannister Thickness .017"
Filter Support-104 1/8"(approx) holes- approx 1.25 sq inches
Bypass valve metal-neoprene coated
Spring- Leaf
Anti-drainback valve- Black neoprene

Conclusions- I would have no problem using this filter. Everything appeared to be first rate. I especially liked the idea of the heavy wall of .017" vs .011" for the Pure One. As I said earlier-I won't use a filter with such a thin wall.
.

wain

thanks.
on the area are you sure you measured right?
the 4 filters I cut open (and they were small short filters) had areas of 60 to 100 inches. Yours has only 47 - what car is it for?Maybe check the math - how long was the filter paper and how high (wide) ?

zr2rando

adc100

Pleats x 2 sides each x pleat length x pleat depth=

43 x 2 x 1.25" x.44 = 47 sq. in.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Probably a little larger cause I didn't add a little extra at the top and bottom of the pleat.

wain

A little messier-
measure the heigth-
then cut out all around with a knife a piece of the filter paper and pull it off and measure it
a little more exact
either way probably close
that ST does not have much area tho at 47 inches. what car does it fit?

adc100

They don't maka a longer version. Several other brands offer longer models. Thats why I would not use that particular filter. You are right. Your method would be more accurate than mine.

fleetwoodsimca

I've got one of those hummers on my 2000 Villager right now. It is a short filter, but I plan to change it at 3K. I agree with you that they seem to be very high quality.

adc100

I have switched to a longer filter from the equivalent of st6607 on my 2001 Sentra and son-in- laws 1999 Quest. After doing the research with bypass settings and noting that Autozone lists some replacement (alternate) filters on some models) I have developed a list of equivalents for this dinky filter. I've used all of the below ones except the Fram. They are:

Bosch- 3323
K&N (my favorite)- HP-1010
Pure One- PL-14620
Mobil- M1-110
Fram- 7317

These filters give twice the filtering area.
If you need additional information-email me.

Al

alternator

I have just come across a "oil/oil filter survey" that I found very entertaining (it hasn't been mentioned before in these discussions that I know of) ---- "shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart1.htm"

Be sure to look at all five pages therein.

I will be waiting with interest for feedback regarding the above from this discussion group.

adc100: to add to your "larger filter options for Purolator PL14622" list, take a look at Castrol equivalent which appears to be noticeably longer even than the Purolator PL14620.

wain

alternator:

i think the only way to tell is to cut them open.
the Nissan original equipment i cut open was longer than the Purolator but only had about 10% more area.
They fool you - short element in a tall can -
the nissan OEM was made by wix i think who also makes the penske ones at Kmart that were short on filter area. but then they are cheaper and "made to K mart specs"

link would not open - can non members view it?

knapp3

Wain, I'm pretty sure Nissan fitlers are made by MAHLE Filtersysteme, Germany not Wix.

Here is an interesting comparison about Nissan filters against "you know who":

http://www.motorvate.ca/auto/maxima/oil_filter/oil_filter.htm

Adc100, just curious, why are K&N your favorites?

Chuck

wain

My guess was based on the look of the inner support tube - wix has that spiral and on the look of the antidrain back valve - looks just like the post you gave us - same last numbers too 9e00 - and the can/filter said "made in usa' does mahle have a plant in the us?
the post you gave also says made in usa.
That red anti drain back valve is TOO flexible in my opinion - it is weak and will not push firmly against the base can (my opinion)

why do you think they mahle makes them?

adc100

My thought on the K&N is the high flow rate plus the thick wall construction. However after reading the following article:

http://shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart5.htm

Perhaps Mobil 1 is still an O.K. Choice.

fleetwoodsimca

Bosch- 3323
K&N (my favorite)- HP-1010
Pure One- PL-14620
Mobil- M1-110
Fram- 7317

I used the Fram, and then learned that some other brands would make excellent alternatives. I have found the Bosch filter to be very good. I got concerned about the Purolator 14620, because of finding a discrepancy on that number versus another Purolator number that some Purolator sources claim to be the right one! I have avoided using any Purolator filters on the Nissan 3.3 liter engine because of that.

adc100

I think the problem is the Move by Nissan to the smaller filter line. The 2000 Sentra calls for a different filter than the 2001 Sentra SE (same engine) I don't think it's Purolator's fault. But I'm off of the Purolator kick also.

adc100

Compared to a shorter "SuperTech" ST6607 from Wallyworld: I destroyed the longer version Bosch 3323 also made by Champion. The pleats were 2 1/8" long vs 1.25 for the Tech. There were 50 pleats vs 43 for the Tech so the filtering area for the Bosch was 1.98 times the Tech.

The disappointment was that the wall thickness was only .012" vs .017 for the Tech. Also the epoxy holding the pleats in the Bosch was sloppy.

Efficiency for the Bosch was 98%/93%.

SuperTech appeared to be the winner here. Unfortunately I will not be able to use it for my Nissan because it only comes in the shorter version.

fleetwoodsimca

I'm with you on this decision. I just really don't want to use the smaller filter, realizing that evidence may be available that the 6607 shorty is perfectly adequate. I just haven't seen it, and size does matter!

frule

My new Avalanche uses an ACDelco PF59(a "fairly new" filter).I purchased several at Autozone.Then I saw a Supertech ST-3675 at WalMart.It appears to be the EXACT same filter.

It is made by Champion.It has a little unusual build.The center tube has circumferential "ridges"or corrugations.There are 12 circumferential rows of small holes(top to bottom),in groups of 3(x4).The stamp on the end plate is even identical.

Seems to add more credence to the multi-supplier theory since I have another PF59 that is totally different.

The only caveat is that I haven't cut them apart.But I'd be shocked it they are not identical!

fleetwoodsimca

I suspect we would find more variation in brands like ACDelco, because they seem to offer different "makes" with their name on them, according to the market segment doing the merchandising. That is, for example, the Buick dealer sells a different make of ACDelco than Pep Boys sells. We must hope they all meet the standards we expect from the brand name. Do they?

opera_house_wk

I remember reading years ago about a company that was supplying electrostatic oil filters for the big rigs (the only economically viable market). Or was this just the future as seen by Popular Mechanics? I have seen the electrostatic cleaning units made by UAS for industrial hydraulic systems. They claim the oil is cleaner than it comes from the factory. Engine oil is far too dirty for these, especially since they can't tolerate much moisture in the oil. Great concept, only dirt, carbon, acids, and water will take a charge and be attracted to the collector plate. Anyone know if these systems made it to the trucking market?

frule

Exactly!What ARE we getting?Makes me more prone to lean towards an Amsoil or Mobil 1 for anything longer than 3-4K intervals.

Most posts,however,seem to think the quality of the Champion Labs filters are good.Probably the thing we won't know about ALL the various ACDelcos,concerns the filtering medium.What it is and what the ability to filter the smaller particles is.I'm not sure I trust the "data" on the Frams,Castrols,Champions,etc.concerning their ability to filter small particles at high multi-pass efficiencies(i.e. in these $2-$5 versions).And since it appears beneficial to get a high % of 15-20 micron particles,maybe the Mobil 1 and Amsoils are worth their higher prices?

fleetwoodsimca

Here recently, I have read posts that are convincing that Mobil 1 filters are from Champion Labs. Frankly, I am impressed by Champion and WIX, in either order. I am not aware of any "bad product" coming from these two sources.

wain

In the Castrol I cut up from walmart - it was short on filter area
I think theyare cheating pople.

adc100

Appears to be a well made filter. Disassembled a LF393 filter (AC- PF-52) it had 44 very evenly spaced pleats. As was mentioned-a coil spring is used. The can is heavy duty with a thickness of .016". They advertise higher efficiency-but am not sure what the efficiency is. Cost $5.08. The List was $9.24.

brorjace

If you buy a "Penske" or "Castrol" filter at K-mart for $2-3, and get a small internal filter cartridge inside a well-made canister, I don't think you are being "cheated". You are getting what you pay for ... and a lot more than when you buy a Fram or other cheap-as-dirt filter as far as I can tell.

My Honda Civic currently had a Hastings (#LF-402) on it and I'm thinking of replacing just the filter (oil change not due til May or June) so I can chop it apart.

--- Bror Jace

fleetwoodsimca

Around here, FRAM filters sell for higher prices than other readily available filters. I can only assume that the price is thought to induce consumers into thinking they are just a cut above the competition. I quit buying them due to this price differential, and that was long before I was aware of quality questions.

armtdm

Was the bypass valve on the bottom of the filter? It probably was. If you are not aware Hastings makes (well actually Baldwin filters is the owner) makes Hastings and Amsoil filters in the same plant in Nebraska. Amsoil swears the specs on theirs is different then Hastings but people that have cut both open cannot tell the difference. Amsoil bypass valve is on the bottom of the filter. I had good luck with Hastings, hard to find though.

adc100

The filter I destroyed was for a General Motors product. There was no bypass valve. BTW who makes the WIX filters??

csandste

Dana

brorjace

Yes Dana makes Wix. It used to say "Gard Corporation" on the filters and I think Dana owns them.

Oh, and Fleetwood, I wasn't saying Fram = cheap (as in price), I was talking about their lack of quality. I know they are usually at least $1 more than say, a Super-Tech filter produced by Champion Labs.

I think Fram filters are priced higher because Allied Signal markets so aggressively. That marketing is very expensive and they need to pay for it all.

Plus, there is a perceived quality with a higher-priced product. If Fram sold their filters at the price it cost to produce them plus the usual mark-up, people would see what junk they really are. Currently, too many people think they are actually buying a quality filter because the brand name is so powerful.

armtdm, I'll bet you a dollar that the only difference between a Hastings (or Baldwin) filter and the Amsoil filter is the media used. Amsoil probably uses a slightly higher efficiency filter media. What say ye?

--- Bror Jace

armtdm

Hastings vs Amsoil media. I honestly don't know. I am getting concerned about my back flow valve on my Amsoil filters. On my Camry the past three fitlers at around 5000 miles I start to get a different oil dipstick reading (higher reading) (yes, could be caused by a lot of things perhaps fuel the highest probabiltiy but I doubt it) and I am starting to feel the valve is quitting arount the 5000 mile mark and letting the oil flow back and I change oil on this car at 7,500. Today I changed the oil (filter is not horizontal, sort of half way between horizontal and vertical, angled) and when I spun it off there was basically no oil in the filter (I was letting the pan drain overnight and doing the filter the next morning) . I cut it open, pretty clean inside, well constructed but just not sure about that back flow valve.

frule

I just got an email from Amsoil that claims 5-7 micron filtering capability:

"Avalanche
2002 - Avalanche V8-327 (5.3L) SFI
Parts Information
Part Prompt                         Notes               PartNo Qty
Lube SDF64 1
Air TS123/AF1052 1
Air Cabiin AF1114 1
Fuel GF111 1
Oil Vapor N/R 1
Fuel Vapor N/R 1
PCV   1
Transmission Filter No. 4L60E S. Pan TF113 1 Transmission Filter No. 4L60E D. Pan TF156 1 Transmission Filter No. 4L80E TF144 1
The SDF64 is the only option we offer for this application. It does however have a larger capacity than most oem or aftermarket filters. The SDF64 element is rated at 5 to 7 microns".

So,I assume the media is different.They say there is fiberglass in it.

adc100

What is the efficiency (Beta) at these micron values. Any filter will filter some of these particles - but at what efficiency?

joffficer

I just bought a '02 Elantra GT a month ago, and will be do my oil soon. I stopped by Wal*Mart and all they seem to sell are Frams and Super Tech. I'd rather use a Pure one or AC Gold, but haven't been able to find the correct number. Anyone know what will work for my car? Calling auto parts stores in my area for information is a chore!!
Another thing I'd like to do is use a larger filter. I haven't looked at it yet, but there has to be room... the filter (fram 7313) is tiny!! Where can I find a larger size that will work with my car?

adc100

Is an excellent filter with a very heavy shell and a high efficiency. It is also made by Champion Labs. You can't go wrong with it. As far as oversize filters-go to a place that has a Purolator catalog and on page 930 you will find filter dimensions. Pick one with the same diameter, inlet threads, and relief valve setting and then look for a longer one.

harry31

joffficer:
The oil filter numbers I have for the Hyundai '02 4 & 6 cyl engines are as follows:

Mann...............: W 811/80
STP.................: S2808
Bosch..............: 3312
Mobil 1.............: M1-104
Amsoil..............: SDF-20
AC Delco..........: PF-1127, SPF-1127, UPF-1127
Fleetguard.........: LF-3462
Purolator...........: L-14459
Fram.................: PH-3593A
KFO (Korean)....: 00301
Hyundai part #...: 26300-35500

You milage may vary. =;-)

armtdm

If you have room the Amsoil SDF 36 is much larger and will fit in lieu of the SDF 20. I use this on a few cars.

frule

He(the Amsoil tech) didn't give a beta figure.But the info on the filter was unsolicited.I had only asked which one(s) would fit.

I'm not sure I have seen ANY efficiency figures for these filters.Judging from how few filters have synthetic media,I suspect these are very good.

frule

In post #977 I spoke of the SuperTech #3675 for the 5.3l GM engine(& others) to replace the AC Delco PF59.

They now have a new box that says made by Champion Labs,in USA.It also gives the Single pass at 98% and multi-pass at 99%.AND it says "synthetic fiber-enhanced filter media...."No micron rating is mentioned.

So are these efficiencies at all meaningful(since it doesn't give particle size)?It does say SAE tests #HS806 and J1858.Looks to be an excellent product(esp with some synth media).

chuasan

Hi,

I am new to this forum... and seems like Champion Labs makes good filters, and I read that they also make filter under other brands... can someone tell me those names? Thank you

fleetwoodsimca

I know it can be a grueling task, but you need to go back in the discussion and read as much as you can. The fog will clear, the knowledge will come. And I am pleased to be writing post #1000 in this convoluted topic! (:oÞ