Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

tsjay

After use, no way to tell. New, I still don't think you could see the micro glass. You might "feel" it, but even that would be a stretch. We do an ash test to determine the amount of glass we are actually getting into the sheet. We weigh a sample then put it in a muffler furnace and weigh the residue after it comes out of the furnace. The cellulose burns up, leaving a little molten glass as residue.

tom

zr2rando

I'll try NOT to test my filters that way,,I'll leave that to you!
see ya
Rando

fleetwoodsimca

I feel that you can't go wrong using NAPA Gold (Wix) filters. The NAPA Silver line is also very good, but if you don't want to buy filters made in South America, check the box labels closely. I was very surprised to discover that some NAPA filters are NOT made in North America (USA or Canada).

opera_house_wk

Another interesting failure besides the deformed and hardened plastic checkvalve. I set the FRAM filter media in the trash can for a couple of days with some paper towels to soak up the oil. Today, I examined the paper filter media to see if it had collected anything unusual. For some reason, I looked inside the center steel collection tube and noticed all the holes had something protruding. Upon examination with a lighted magnifier, I found it was filter material being pushed through. I cut out a section of the filter and held it up to the light and found pinholes at many of these bulges. These holes likely grow in size when pressure is applied. Here are the construction details of this and two other filters for comparison.

FRAM PH8A 12 vertical rows of 0.18" holes, alternating 3 then 4 with a total of 42 holes punched in FLAT steel tube. Since there are 34 vertical filter pleats and 12 sets of vertical holes, there are approximately 3 pleats for every row of holes. It appears there are always pleats that do not have an easy oil path to a collection hole. It would have been nicer if these holes were staggered rather than perfectly vertical.

Super Tech ST-8A Approximately (I haven't destroyed this yet) 14 holes in 15 rows that alternate, about 210 holes of 0.1" punched in a slightly corrugated, about every 0.2" around the diameter, steel tube.

WIX 51602 This is another side seam like the FRAM and a pain to open. Designed for a diesel, it has no bypass or check valve (they are internal to engine), but probably typical of filter element construction (3.90"x 0.67"x 48 pleats = 251 square inches). Three sets of spiral rows with 47 holes each for a total of 141 holes of 0.17 " punched in a steel tube which has 3 DEEP spiral channels stamped into it. One filter pleat came loose during inspection as a result of insufficient glue coverage.

The WIX tube is clearly a neat design for collecting oil the from the filter pleats. Super Tech uses a larger number of holes, though smaller, and corrugated channels to collect the oil. The FRAM filter was used way beyond its recommended service, but I believe the small number of holes and the pleats forced up against the flat steel contributed filter media puncture failure. In some places two pleats were being forced through the same hole. There could be flow problems with all these blocked holes. As I said before, I am interested in examining used filters to determine which constructions contribute to a better filter. The collection will grow.

My thoughts on FRAM. It might be easy to say that some engineer is stupid or that not putting in extra holes and stamped metal channels is a way to save cost. In fact, I believe that this design is a very deliberate attempt to limit flow rates when the oil is thick. This prevents the filter medium from being crushed by a high differential pressure due to the significantly lower surface area of this filter. In contrast to minimopar, I believe that the bypass valve is a decent design, possibly because it is expected to be used.

csandste

(from memory) the box talks about improved filtering media and gives a 98% filtering rate, vs. 82% for average filter and 96% for most popular brand. This corresponds to the figure on the Fram box.

I've always insisted that Wal-Mart substitute a SuperTech filter for a Fram, could it be that despite the shoddy construction and lack of filtering media that Fram is really the second best filter?

fleetwoodsimca

...the SuperTech Walmart (Champion Labs [?]) filters are definitely in the running for being one of the best buys on the market, due to mid to high range quality and low range price. How do you beat that if you change oil regularly?

al_saadallah

You said that we shouldnt warm up our cars in the morning? Isnt that a little strange, wont the motor have wear from not enough oil flow?

armtdm

I believe that what was meant was to let the engine oil pressure come up to normal, perhaps 30 sec to a minute and then drive off. Depends on ouside temp of course but to let the engine idle for 5-10 minutes to warm up does not do it any good but most harmful thing of all is to drive it less then 10 miles after starting it. Never burn off the moisture

opera_house_wk

Is that you can open them up easily and cleanly. I use a heavy duty household can opener and they cut open from the top as easily as a can of soup. Then pop a screwdriver through the threaded hole and tip. Just discovered this and have never heard of anyone doing it this way. An engine builder I know has one of those $80 cutters but the filter is upside down and makes quite a mess.

I work on old marine flathead engines and most of them don't even have oil filters. So, I'm not as concerned as most about a filter going into partial bypass. I am concerned about the failure of the check valve in the FRAM PH8A (I just bought this car used)since most wear happens at starting. The material used is inappropriate. Supposidly a cone shape that seats on the cone shaped metal endplate, the material had flattened out. The edges would no longer touch the metal or cover the holes. It is made thicker and stiffer to support and center the filter. For that reason I would never buy a FRAM.

The thing I have noticed about the FRAM filter media is that it seems fuzzier and less stiff than other filters. I will be getting a low milage FRAM from a friend shortly. One filter doesn't make a valid study.

csandste

I use the SuperTech because I can get it instead of a Fram on the Wal-Mart $11.99 oil change. I think most Champion Labs filters: Champ, STP, Lee, SuperTech, Deutsch, are about the same.

Interestingly the original MiniMopar filter comparison was almost as negative towards Champion Labs as he was Fram. Complained that Champion Labs filters had rust (I remember that about five years ago but haven't seen it lately) and thinner filtering material (have seen quite a few Champion Labs filters disassembled at AutoZone and didn't notice that either). Interestingly enough the author of the study heard from the Champion Labs attorneys, not the Fram attorneys.

What I was really interested in on that box was the comparison showing that Champion Labs filters greatly beat the other competitors but BARELY EDGED OUT THE FRAM. Maybe the basic Fram filtering material is pretty good (fuzzy?) but the construction of the filter still stinks. Anyway, I for one, having seen the insides of Frams still wouldn't buy one even if they do have a good filtering medium.

zr2rando

My truck uses the ST3980 in the Supertech line of filters, They have changed the box on that particular part# to a black box that says it now has synthetic fiber enhanced media and the multipass (j1858) test is at 99%, the single pass (hs806) is at 98%, (I'll have to look them up I guess). The filter is painted black now too, so at least SOMETHING is different, maybe they are changing other part# too as they start running out of the current production?
As far as the FRAM filters, they are the only ones that make my truck rattle up in the valve train area until thoroughly warmed up,,,,no other filter has ever done that. I don't use them anymore. Champion may have increased their quality in the last few years maybe, I don't know. But I know there is only one filter right now that I WON'T use.
see y'all
Rando

opera_house_wk

since taking them apart. I used to believe that most filters went into partial bypass near the end of the design life. None of the filter media I have seen gives a visual indication that it can not continue to filter. I think the pleat design, as opposed to density filters like felt, has interesting characteristics. The bottom 1/3 of the pleat is responsible for the flow and the upper sections filter out the finer particles. So for me the more pleats the better given the same filter area. All my filter areas are smaller than the minimopar results by about 15-20%. I calculate the area by taking the measured depth X height not in glue X the number of pleats X 2. Filter material by nature is a little stretchy and when minimopar stretched out the material to get rid of the folds the length increased. When you look at filters, there seem to be two categories. FRAM and all others. I drive a lot and change my oil about 5 times a year. In my case, I don't think it matters much what I put in as long as it has a good check valve. A cheaper filter buys me an extra oil change. I'd change the Super Tech for a Motorcraft with extra surface area if I was doing two changes a year.

wain

the contact said someone in the product line would e mail me back - no word yet even tho I sent a follow up e mail.
I told them it was a question on edmunds - maybe they have made a change they are not wanting to "advertise".
so what filter do I switch to?
not Fram
not supertech - (a wal mart spec item)
what?
AC?
Maybe just use Toyota factory one

harry31

Sometimes these answers are put out just once a week - you might wait a few more days. As for who else makes a good filter, try the Germans. They make excellent units. Unfortunately, they don't make for ALL the world's engines, so you may still have to go with Purolater. =;-)

zr2rando

Check the Purolators there, they may be different. The Napa stores sell the Napa gold and silver, and the Kmart stores sell Castrol,all of which are made by Wix, a good brand . The Autozone sells Bosch and Mobil1,and the Walmart still has some AC left over, all made by Champion.
Pep boys sells Purolator, and proline, also made by Purolator.
Those Supertech filters are in transition it seems, some models are advertising synthetic blend media and the box is different and the filter is painted black on those newer models.
Motorcraft is also made by Purolator, I am using them on my Nissan truck now..Nissan has started standardizing down to a smaller generic size that fits several model vehicles and the Motorcraft version is still the larger size.
Good luck
Confusing isn't it?
Rando

csandste

One appears to be identical to the standard K-Mart (Penske) filter except that it costs more money. The second (premium) filter has more (and better?) filtering medium.

zr2rando

Far as I can tell the Castrol white and the Penske are the same, just the Penske is cheaper.
The Castrol "plus" uses thicker/Synthetic blend paper, looks like it corresponds to the Napa Gold and Silver versions..If you like Wix filters, go fer it....If Kmart cheapens up they may go to a different brand but for now they are probably pretty good for the $$$, Years ago all the generics were Frams, but now they are actually pretty good filters...both the Kmart Wix's and the Walmart Champions (AC's and Supertechs)_..
see ya
Rando

fleetwoodsimca

Wix is a brand held in high esteem. NAPA GOLD is a good example of same. I can see that I must get to my nearest Kmart-in-chapter-11 and check out the Penske and Castrol filters!

brorjace

Actually guys, I think both the Castrol filters (made by WIX) are comparable to the NAPA Silver, WIX's second-rate filters ... which are still pretty good, but not as good as the NAPA Gold. The shape/size of the can gives this away for some numbers.

Yes, I believe the difference between the two is the filter media ... and about $1.50.

Don't forget to check out this filter review, especially if you drive a Honda or some other import:

http://ntpog.server101.com/reviews/filters/filters.shtml

--- Bror Jace

zr2rando

I have used a black Castrol filter and cut it open a few months back, I have not used a white castrol yet, I have a Penske on my other truck right now, haven't opened one of them yet.
Are you saying that the black and white are the same? or the white and Penske are the same?
The White Castrol and the Penske have the same description on the box at least, and the black says that it has more dirt capacity..
The black Castrol that I cut open looks similar to the Napa Gold in that article, I can't say about the others yet.
I can say that the first black Castrol had a LOT of spring tension on the cartridge,, caused some deformation on the cartridge, compression caused some curves in the cartridge pleats, otherwise looked like a pretty good filter, thicker paper than the others I have seen so far.
See ya
Rando

wain

Very interesting - espectially comment against NAPA and Frams, on "Fuzzy" filter media that may come off - where would that go/
Into little oil passages or hydraulic lifter parts?/

Filter is suppossed to filter, no add contaminants!!!!

any sites like that for Toyotas?

fleetwoodsimca

I note that one conclusion to draw from the Texas Honda electrical engineer's can opener site is: The Champion made (various brands) filters remain a safe and reasonable choice, relative to the field selected for observation.

csandste

Since the Wal-Mart (SuperTech) boxes have their filter narrowly edging out Fram in both tests. Could Fram do so well because of their fuzzy media and could this media although testing well actually quickly deteriorate and plug things up?

brorjace

wain, I probably should have said something when I posted that link. Tom, our resident filter media dude, already addressed the 'fuzzy' issue. The fuzzy stuff filters better and is often specifically requested by filter mfrs. The loose fibers are upstream and the flow of oil pushes them back against the face of the media. They are not a problem. Filtech (made-in-USA OEM Honda) used to be my favorite filters for my car but they are being replaced by a made-in-Canada Fram filter (complete with the infamous cardboard innards) so I recently switched to Hastings.

I need to e-mail that NTPOG dude and let him know. It has been on my "to Do" list for too long. <:^(

I do not own a Toyota so I am not aware of Toyota-related URLs but I am sure they are out there. There are a couple of studies specifically for Hondas that I know of, that being the most extensive. I might mail that guy a Hastings just so it can be included.

As for the Wix/NAPA/Castrol/Penske filters: I believe the white and black Castrol are identical except for the media used. These seem to be the same or very similar to the NAPA Silverline, but this varies with the part number. And, the white Castrol filter is probably very close to, if not identical to the yellow Penske filters. All of these are available at most K-marts.

As has been stated before, this varies a bit with the filter number in question as some you would think should be better or worse will turn out to be absolutely identical. Most Hondas take NAPA #1334 and this filter is significantly smaller in the NAPA Silverline (same size as Castrol and probably Penske) than their Gold. I have a Honda lawn tractor and there is only room for the smaller spin-on filter so I bought a Castrol Max-Plus (the black one) and I'll leave it on for a year or so.

Plus, filter manufacturers will cross-source certain filters, especially the more obscure ones. Fewer of these are needed to fill the demand so it is cheaper to merely buy a completely-made filter from someone else and paint/mark it to look like yours rather than completely re-tool for a low-production run.

I saw this a lot with brake sets but the different part numbers will fewer for oil filters. For example 80-90% of all Hondas made in the last 10 to 12 years actually use the exact same filter. The same is NOT true of disc brake pads where the same number of models are covered by several different sizes.

--- <b>Bror Jace

opera_house_wk

Does anyone know of a common, larger size, metric filter that fits the 4L inline six. Every time I shop for one they are out or only have one brand Fram. I used to use a Ford FL-1A in my Toyota Supra because it was larger. There ought to be some common import that matches my American Jeep. Thanks

I have taken apart a used Fram PH series and I don't care how it filters. The back flow check valves are made out of a plastic that flattens out and no longer works. Its made of a stiff plastic to center the filter element (and vise versa). Some other Frams use a better silicone check valve. I think Fram has some issues as a company when they sell some things that work and some that don't. I feel bad for an old hometown of mine company.

adc100

Premium Plus Filters. Under .010" probably 13 gauge which is .095" + paint. As I've said the likelyhood of failure is low. But I'm not taking chances with this filter anymore. I believe Pure One is also the same thickness. The Mobil 1 is about twice as thick (according to the filter study). I think for now I will waste a couple of extra dollars on the K&N which I can tell is very heavy. They advertise 550 lbs burst pressure. They also advertise 12-16 gpm which is compared to 3 gpm for specs of Purolator. I have no doubt though that the Pure One will pass way more than 3 gpm though. I'll measure the thickness of a K&N as soon as I change. Although I might just cut up a new one. I'll have to ask wife if its in our budget.

csandste

than other Champ. Labs filters, I believe the Minimopar site (in one its variations) reported on some anecdotal stories of the filter coming apart. Not sure if this is because of the improved filtering media.

wain

is there a web site for Mobil one oil filters?

vidtech

what's better? a genuine fram oil filter with card board end caps or a conterfeit fram filter with end caps made from a can of vegetables???
i need a while to think about this one.

fedforester

I have to go by experience. My current Ford Ranger has 250,000 miles with original engine, never worked on, and runs fine to this date. Always used Mortorcraft filters and Ford oil bought for a reasonable price at Walmart.

97xpresso

If you change your oil AND filter every 3000 miles do you really have to get the best filter money can buy

adc100

Some information at Mobil1.com.

97xpresso Probably doesn't matter a lot. I want the best I can get because I change oil with syn once/year. Also-like I said-I'm concerned with the thickness of the filter wall. But then again I'm paranoid.

fleetwoodsimca

Yesterday I sallied forth and acquired some "WIX" filters from KMART. Very close visual inspection at the store shelf indicated to me that the housing on the Penske 7317 was VERY similar (identical except for paint) to the white Castrol 7317 housing, which might indicate that they are both Wix in origin. I further noted that white and black Castrols appear to have only paint color as a visible difference in the few I checked out where both colors were available in a single designation (filter media is another topic). At this particular KMART I did not have the choice of just any filter in all of the three "lines." I bought the yellow Penskes in 7317 at $2.89 each over the white Castrols at $3.49 each. They really appeared to be the same filter except for paint! I bought a white Castrol 16, not having any other 16's available in the other "lines." I suspect that yellow, white, and black are all WIX. I do recognize that other filter numbers could come from other sources, such as Champion, but my limited experience yesterday did not lead me to such a conclusion.

adc100

I wrote K&N asking them if the car warranty remained in force with their filters since they didn't specifically state that on their filter box.

Here is their rather evasive (IMO) answer:

Dear customer,

The dealership may not void a warranty or force you to use specific products per Federal laws. The Moss-Magnuson Warranty Act of the Fair Trade Commission states that if a part is not covered under warranty, the consumer may use any brand they choose to. No info on wall thickness but they do have 550 PSI hydrostatic burst, and helps reduce the risk of rock and stone damage.

Thank you,
Adrian Orozco
Thecnical Support

tboner1965

They said under Federal Law, a dealership cannot void a warranty because you used an aftermarket filter.

The only way you are required to use a manufacturers filter, is if they give them away for no cost.

However, if the aftermarket filter is the cause of the failure, then your claim in not with the carmaker, but with the filter maker.

TB

adc100

If I were to go to Savabobia and buy an aftermarket product that did not meet manufacture's specs and the engine blew: The manufacturer would not be required to give me a new engine. Their filter does not say it meets OEM specs.

fleetwoodsimca

If a severe engine mishap occurs due to an oil filter failure, then your contention is with the guarantor of the filter. The engine manufacturer is home free, unless the engine and filter are from the same entity. And what are the chances that a catastrophic filter failure is going to destroy your engine? One in how many million? I suspect we need not worry much about that. The way most filter/engine problems arise must surely be the chronic use of poor filters causing the early wear out of your mill. How can we ever prove that connection? We can only avoid filters that we fear will lead to such early demise of our engines.

opera_house_wk

Haven't been there forever. Bought the last two Penske 3985 filters they had in stock for $2 each. This is such a hard filter to find for my 89 Jeep. I took a Quaker state out of the car and it looked like Son of Fram. Paper ends and a check valve that doesn't work. Jeep mounts this filter upside down and I took it off to see if I had some other filter that would fit. After sitting all night, not a drop of oil in it. Put it back on and went to K-Mart to get a filter and warm up the oil. I got back, opened the garage door to get the tools, and spun off the filter. Again no oil, it had all drained out in 5 minutes. Filling an oil filter each time I start is too long to run an engine without oil.

csandste

because it is a Fram with a different paint job. Same with Pennzoil--beware.

fleetwoodsimca

That rediscovering KMART as a source for excellent filters is the lagniappe (a little something extra) that we all have been needing! Those "Wix" filters under the Penske and Castrol names sure look good to me.

wain

Castrol web site has no mention of filters.
nor the penske site or I missed them.

wain

http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oilfilter.htm

says Fram Castrol and Penske are the same

opera_house_wk

Haven't seen anyone else use them yet. This Son of Fram, which has a short filter element, had a corrugated steel core with the holes in a spiral also. Far different from the full size PH8A core which is flat steel with minimal holes arranged vertically. At first I found the design inconceivable, one row of vertical holes for every three pleats. It then became apparent that this is by design to limit flow rate when the oil is thick. This Quaker state confirms that this assumption is true. The QS filter element looked decent with its additional pleats when compared with the PH8A which is off the wall bad.

When the oil filter is mounted upside down, Jeep extends a tube up the center so a large air pocket does not get trapped inside. The coarse mounting threads would allow oil to seep by and drain the filter. Internally the filter check valve flapper extends to this center tube to seal it. This one, surprise, was deformed and didn't seal. If I ever find a filter with a check valve that works, I'll add an external O ring to the tube for a better seal. Amazing what you learn by taking used filters apart. I need to find some other activities!

fleetwoodsimca

bottom of this. Has any poster in this thread ever cut into the Penske and Castrol filters to see if the tell-tale spiral center tube of WIX is present? Are the Penske and Castrol filters constructed with a metal end cap,or is it cardboard as in the Fram lines? This, we need to know!

wain

that are made by a filter company, like
purolater
wix - dana
AC?
who to add to this list?

sound s like napa, castrol and penske do not make their own filters but are just marketing brands.

How do you get to a list of who the basic manufacturers are, and then buy from them?.

armtdm

For example Baldwin filters makes a large number of oil filters under different brand names and specs. For example they make Hastings under one spec, which makes Amsoil filters under another etc. Actually, Hastings is a marketing name and was purchased by Baldwin years ago.
All manufacturing plants are owned by Baldwin.

So, never really know who is making what???????

wain

perhaps then only wix or purolater?

any disadvantages to that brand?

fleetwoodsimca

Well, at any rate, if anyone cuts open any Penske and Castrol filters, please let everyone know what you have found. The more I consider the question of origins of the KMART filters, the less convinced I become that we can "prove" who made them, no matter what we do!
zr2rando: On Feb 14, you posted, "The Napa stores sell the Napa gold and silver, and the Kmart stores sell Castrol,all of which are made by Wix, a good brand." How sure are you?

bnosyt

Both Penske and Castrol oil filters are made by Wix. You don't need to cut one of them open to find out. Look in the opening in the center. They have the Wix trademark spiral inner tube. Also, I e-mailed Wix about the different brands, and they said the Penske were the 'good' brand while the Castrol white is 'better' and the Castrol black 'best'. I am assuming that the only differences between these are the quality of filtering media.

Tyson

fleetwoodsimca

Thank you most sincerely! I was afraid we were making too many "reasonable" assumptions. Wix told you that they make all three, and that covers it for me.