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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?
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IMHO, all this doesn't really mean that much anyway. Change oil at a reasonable interval using any approved oil and filter, and the engine will likely outlast one's desire for the car.
If a filter has twice the paper then it has twice the filter CAPACITY, (and twice the big holes/medium holes/small holes), the flow is possibly limited by the same size inlet/outlet holes, consequently the paper will just give it a longer life before it clogs up. Imagine a highway that has 2 lanes but the exit is still 1 lane . Now make the highway 4 lanes but still exit is 1 lane.
There will be 4 lanes of traffic but each lane would be just moving slower now...just as many big trucks and small cars (same ratio) at that point as before. If the inlet/outlet (exit lane) is actually the choke point then each lane/pores would clog up in twice the time,same amount of dirt--true enough, but twice the time.
But if the inlet/outlet is NOT the choke point, then you double the lanes and you double the flow and everything fills up at the same rate as before,,,but remember, you doubled the flow, and that is a good thing!
reading back over this sounds like I just said 2+2=5, generally speaking , as far as filtration goes, more filtration media is always desirable..either you get twice the service life or you get twice the dirt holding capacity, either way is good....ya with me?
Smaller filters definitely have shorter lives there is no question about that, so if you have the option of a larger filter take advantage of it.
I've been thinking about a 5 gallon bucket out in my garage and a triple roll of Bounty here lately that I would mount in the bed of my truck....maybe get it patented...maybe retire to a chalet in the mountains.....
see ya
Rando
tom
Good morning
Rando
BIG point missed by everyone is at what particle size does the "dirt" not make any difference?
25 microns?
10 microns?
at some point the small impurities do not matter.
tom
We do know that tests were run by Mobil and probably others where changing filters at 7K intervals with synthetic oil allowed engines to go 200K with almost no wear. These were 1994 tests where filters probably were on the order of the 40 micron variety. My guess is that filters with efficiencies of 80% or so (20 micron particles) would be more than adequate to allow engines to run hundreds of thousand miles. Probably the biggest factor is quality of lubricant and not particles. Thats why I think the bypass filters that get rid of the 1 or 2 micron particles are probably not that meaningful.
The one time I tried one years ago I noticed a very high oil pressure with it and took it back off, never tried another one.
Rando
I think that the bypass filters, like the Amosil one, use cotton or some heavy fiber material but not 100% sure. But those only filter about 10% of the oil at any given time so that flow is not an issue.
My view on filtration is similar to that of Rando's. I learned that sort of thing while playing in seasonal streams as a tiny tot. You can't catch the little bits of floaties until your dam (or in this case, filtration media) starts to fill in with the large and medium junk. >;^)
I'm not sure if catching things smaller than 15 microns is going to make a big deal but, without resorting to some Frankenstein's monster of a bypass contraption, I'd like to do it anyway. Think of how polishing compounds work on metal. They use lots and lots of microscopic abrasives to eventually wear away metal wherever they are applied. Knowingly leaving grit in an oil just doesn't sit well with me ... it's just a bad principle. I might not care if I were using a racing engine and I know I'd only be putting a few dozen hours on it before a tear-down and rebuild ... but then again, I might even be running with no air filter if this is the case. But, for some vehicle I might drive every day for a decade, we can do better.
Personally, I'd like to see spin-on canister filters the size of coffee cans. I'm guessing that the auto companies don't really want to do this because of cost, which is just pennies and just silly, and space requirements under the hood. Knowing where Honda and so many others like to locate their filters (between the engine and firewall) there isn't a lot of extra room to use for a jumbo-sized filter and mounting one remotely poses problems because of more hardware, weight, cost and the greater possibility of leaking from all the plumbing and connection parts.
Still, I'm blown away when I see a V-8 or V-6 with a dinky little filter I'd expect to find on a 600cc motorcycle. What's the point of being so darn chinsy on a car costing 20K or more ... sometimes a LOT more?
Moving to a larger filter, say double the size of those currently in use, seems like it would be an easy way to ensure that motors get an ample supply of clean oil over the somewhat extended drain intervals often recommended by today's manufacturers. The fact that such a simple measure isn't done makes me suspect that they don't really want our cars to routinely last 200,000 miles or more. But then again, I suspected that anyway with questionable moves to things like 5W20 motor oil and drain intervals of 10-12,000+ miles. :rolleyes:
--- Bror Jace
you're right about the extra hardware, but PVC pipe is cheap, and duct tape holds anything wherever you need it.
Maybe I'll schedule a meeting with Chevrolet..
Oh yeah, your example of dam'ing up a creek, you must have learned your first example of VERY efficient filtration and flooded someone's house huh?
HMMM, I'm getting worried bout myself
Rando
http://home.earthlink.net/~goodspeeds/LSANDRA.HTM
I remember these being tested in various road test magazines. They were supposed for work just fine. Don't think you were supposed to ever have to change your oil, just put in a new roll now and again.
If this is to believe it actually was supposed to filter to 5 microns:
"How is an engine treated if it has a Franz type oil filter?
The particles of the Microlon resin range in size and some of the larger particles may not pass through the Franz type oil filter. This cartridge must be removed or by-passed during the treatment period to avoid a possible loss of some of the particulate. A Franz type oil filter resembles a toilet paper roll, not a conventional oil filter. Nothing is bigger than 5 microns."
http://www.microlon.com/More_FAQ/more_faq.html
1.Is there a difference between the filter paper when using virgin paper pulp as opposed to recycled paper?
2. which is cheaper to manufactor virgin paper or recycled paper?
3. Is there a difference in filtration quality between the two?
Oh well, I guess I wasn't really meant to keep this house after all. (my wife is out in the living room singing along with the cd machine--kareoke thing--maybe I can get her to.....
oh well, back to Kmart, or rather Walmart maybe for filters,,, and live like the rest of us here,
regular filters,every 3k ...
oh well, I'm bummed out now,
see y'all
Rando
Broke is a paper mill term for scrap generated while making paper. In our case, broke is the unsaturated paper that we produce between grades. When we get through with one grade of paper and switch to the next, we take the resin out of the sheet by dropping the pan containing the resin solution, so that the applicator roll no longer picks up any resin.
We take repeated samples as adjustments are made to the machine set-up based on our lab tests. When the base sheet tests show that we are "on grade," we begin saturating again. The raw (unsaturated) paper made during the grade change can be re-pulped and the fibers re-used.
The fibers used in the manufacture of automotive filter paper are not available as "recycled fibers" from the secondary fiber market. Most recycled fibers are too short for making good automotive filter paper, because they have been too heavily refined in their original use, or because the type of fibers are just not suitable to begin with.
tom
the string was still there.shortly,i will be putting on another brand of filter.
tom
tom
Was the cardboard ends the same as Fram or thicker? Maybe it's just a new material that would be similar to Fram visually but maybe a better quality material? Was the bypass button the same plastic with a weak spring? maybe a purolator and a Fram went behind the counter and ... maybe now this is a Framolator????
see y'all
Rando
the end plates were thicker than fram's.made of some kind of fiber board.the end plate opposite the mounting side had the big hole in it where the tension spring fit into.the mounting plate did not even resemble the typical purolators i have used in the past.the end crimps on the can even looked different.
i did have some leaks pop up while using max life.the leaks stopped when i changed back to valvo's regular 10/30 brew.i must have had bad luck i guess.
Good luck.
Good morning,
Rando
Also I e mailed purolater and asked them about the report that "cardboard" was now being used
will let u know on both.
WOW!
3 filters:
Castrol Plus Kmart Ac-pf52 Wmart Ac-pf52
cart length 3 11/16 4 3/16 4 0/16
pleat depth 10/16 13/16 8/16
2 sides each pleat...
number of pleats 47 36 61
sq inches of paper 216 244 244
The castrol plus had noticeably thicker material
carton says synthetic blend, and the pleats showed compression strain..curved..(tension spring in can too strong.
see ya
Rando
I'd be thinking more along the lines of aluminum mounting plates with a rubber isolation bushings to minimize vibration, brass fittings and braided stainless lines and I'd be calling up our buddy Tom for the best, high-efficiency resin-impregnated filter media money can buy. >:^D
Watching the Rolex 24 hours of Daytona makes me want to over-engineer everything for the long haul. >:^)
I'd keep an eye on the Purolator Pure-One filters but I'd doubt they'd cheapen them anytime soon. Everyone wants to have a premium line to brag about ... and a cheapo line to appeal to the cobble-kickers. >;^)
--- Bror Jace
I think my design would add character to the vehicle, yours would just make it work forever, blah blah blah...he he
Never know, Ol' Tom may have a setup like I'm talkin bout already, just using his own paper because it is on hand already! Probably just painted the 5 gal bucket shiny silver to camo the thing...he he
I hope purolator isn't just cheapening up like it maybe looks like...these days we need to see some brands bragging about BETTER quality, IMPROVED this that and the other, I'm sure manufacturing methods would allow for this as materials/procedures get more efficient with time.
See Ya
Rando
Hey , St Louis or New England?
http://www.synlube.com/prod06.htm
I'm sure its a good filter. But really sure its for me. I'm sticking with K&N for now.
Isn't it also a fortune? Part of their snake-oil like pitch that they use to get their customers to pony up the big bucks all up front? No thanks.
Rando, I used to drive cars with "character" but that was when I was back in school and had no money. I kind of like stuff to work without leaking, leaving spots on the driveway, rattiling, vibrating, etc ...
In short, I'm a retentive fuss-budget ... and my car reflects that. >;^)
--- Bror Jace
Very old testimonials as well
when he replies I will pass it on.
Rando
Sort of like if Mobil 1 was in fact manufactured by a subsidiary of Schaeffers but marketed as a Mobil product!!! Would you care, maybe not, I would though! I like to know who is making a product and why they are not stating so for the record.
Anyway, no one uses this stuff so we can drop it.
50s even the 60s???? - wonder what changed that? need for sale of more filters?
And VW bugs had no filter at all - just a screen?
We always cleaned spark plugs along with the new filter, and drove 10 miles to get AMOCO white gas to clean the carb.
Those were the dayyyyyyys!! (sing like Archie Bunker)
I'm only 41!
See ya
You get that email back from Purolator yet?
Rando