Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

adc100

Try as late as 1992 for the Chevy 3.1L engine.

wain

so where did the "change filter every oil change" come from?

Maybe filters are relatively cheaper now than 20 yeras ago, promoting the "why not" mentality.

adc100

to consumer???

As much as I hate to admit it: Filters probably don't really mean a lot with regards to wear. I mean, if you can drive a vehicle 200K and change oil and filter every 15K and have almost no engine wear or change oil and filter every 25k and and after 50K (consumer driving-no machine or lap driving) and have negligible wear, what does that say?? Of course this was using a high quality syn oil.

Caution: Don't try this with your conventional engine oil!!

vidtech

i just received a response from purolator regarding my "framolator filter".he stated that the plant which made that filter has been shutdown and moved to their main facilty.he also stated that SOME of their products will have the fiber end caps.the vast majority of their products will have the metal endcaps.sounds fishy to me.i hope this sheds some light on this subject.just stay away from the filters which appear to have been changed.

wain

he stated that the plant which made that filter has been shutdown and moved to their main facilty

what does that mean? still being made with cardboard or not?

fleetwoodsimca

Disgusting developments at Purolator! I am wondering who we can trust. I suspect that the cardboard end caps won't be any better than previously, as a result of shutting the plant. They seem to need the direct question as to whether cardboard will continue as an ingredient or not. In the interum, may I suggest using most any filters made by Champion Labs? They seem to be dependable and very good.
As an aside to those who might care, (:oÞ ---I looked at a Pep Boys for ACDelco and Motorcraft filters today for my Nissan 3.3 liter V6. They apparently do not carry those numbers any longer. I think this may have been noted by another poster quite some time ago. Call mine a confirmation.

bulletsilver

Just spent about $10 from Walmart. It's sealed in a aluminum can. Yeah, serious stuff. It says it's good for 7000 miles. Is this really good?

adc100

just turns me off. But looking at the information- It seems to be made from fiberglass media with no paper. If that is true it is the first normally available filter to do so. It may well be the best filter on the market now.

armtdm

I detest companies that sell products that are labeled as good, better best and that is exaclty what Fram is doing. To some degree others are as well with the Purolator and Pure One line, as well as AC Delco and the Gold. For Me, make one type of filter and make the best none of this good, better best crap!

And, I woudl not trust a Fram to be a horse of any different color. they may just be using the belief that more expensive is better (true in most cases) but I would not trust Fram to be actually making a better product

alternator

armtdm: Bravo! Bravo! Well said and so true!

vwracer

I've been reading every ones opinion on Fram filters and the fact that they use cardboard end caps as opposed to metal end cap by other manufactors. My question is this What difference does it matter? If the cardboard end cap holds up and doesn't tear, split or otherwise fail, then it is doing its job. I just changed oil in '83 pick-up that had a Fram filter. Out of curiosity I cut it open and everything was fine, the filter media was intact with the end cap and there were no rips or tears anywhere on the filter cartridge. I personally think that cardboard holding a paper filter together should not be a problem. A cardboard box is much stronger then a paper sack.

fleetwoodsimca

I have speculated several times about opening that very topic! Glad you did it. I recall some post from way back that claimed a Fram end cap had "disintegrated" and pieces of paper were circulated around the engine until line blockage led to the mill biting the bullet. Cardboard is a paper product, as is the filter media. I must admit that I am not inclined to categorically shun Fram without scientific evidence on this end cap thing. Now, on the other hand, I am willing to accept the reports that Fram filters of the not-so-distant past have had cannister failures that allow the oil to quickly escape from the engine. Out of all this, what is fact and what is fiction?

adc100

In the absense of real good factual comparison. I take a look at the cardboard end and say this is a sympton of lack of overall quality. Its a perception-but thats enough for me.
Also companies like Purolator and Mobil 1 started publishing their very high efficiencies. As far as I know Fram still does not publish their efficiencies. So the "leader" in filter sales is obviously not a leader in technology.

csandste

Fram filters have about half the filtering capacity of competitive filters. Plus, although the expose from the Fram engineer has been removed from the MiniMopar filter comparison site, some of us have long memories. That was scarey. Of course, maybe he was just a bad employee with an ax to grind.

ywilson

Ditto. A perception is based on something that did not meet with our approval. I am more inclined to go with the better (choice) filter or any product that seems to me to be of higher quality. I will always use Amsoil filters on my truck. However, after reading this topic for awhile I am inclined to try the Mobil1 filters. From what I have learned here and by looking on their website, it seems that they are not that far away from the Amsoil filters. They are also a little cheaper. I now am out of the factory free maintanance offer on my wifes' truck, so since I will be doing this vehicle myself, I will start using Mobil 1 filters on it.

seamusthedog

" A cardboard box is much stronger then a paper sack."

and a metal end cap is much stronger than a cardboard end cap.

fleetwoodsimca

I intend to hang with the biggest bang for the buck with quality paramount. Therefore, pardon my repetition, I am going for Champion Labs filters, including some of the Walmart versions. That does not exclude other optimals when I find them.
I would still like to know, from a scientific perspective, just what the ramifications of the cardboard end cap actually are-- opinions including my own aside!

charlesb_la

Here is a link to it...

http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilter-fram1.txt

Of course there is no way to verify the allegations. It is scary stuff if true.

vwracer

You can put metal handles on a paper grocery sack but that still don't stop the paper sack from tearing

knapp3

I've had several Fram filters collapse thru the years when I didn't get a good enough position on them to unscrew it. I've often thought it was my own ineptness or using the wrong tools. But now I wonder how many times that would been avoided if the filter had a stronger internal metal end cap instead of cardboard. Its embarassing taking the vehicle into a service garage for removal because the darn filter crushes like a tin pop can.

adc100

I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything. I have become slightly paranoid of metal thickness in filters. I did notice that the Mobil 1 filter is twice as thick as the Pure One. But mainly I am planning on staying exclusively with K@N because of their wall thickness. Also the K&N advertises high flow and 90% efficiency (not sure of particle size though). Since I do extended drain intervals, this may be the best of both worlds. Price is $10 about the same as Mobil 1, but not quite as efficient.

csandste

When I tried to link to the engineer expose they said it was forbidden. Can the rest of you get this link?

charlesb_la

Try this one..

http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Then click on the link under the Fram section

tsjay

I don't think the paper end caps are necessarily a bad thing. It all depends on whether the pleats are properly sealed to these end caps. With metal end caps, there is a depressed area or "trough" where the pleats are seated in plastisol. If there are irregularities in the edge of the pleat pack, then the depth of the plastisol still provides a seal. With the paper end caps, there is only a flat surface with a bead of glue that the pleats are seated on. If the edge of the pleat pack is not very straight, there can be gaps which create a small by-pass. The thickness of the bead of glue is not as great as the thickness of the plastisol in the metal end caps.

The slitters that cut the big rolls of paper into the widths used in the filters are not perfect, and the paper can have a "wavy" edge, which can cause scalloped edges on the pleat packs. This can cause a poor seal when the depth of the sealant is not sufficient to compensate. It's all a matter of degree. A few thousandths of an inch wave will not be a problem, because even the bead of glue on the paper end caps will cover this. If the wave is more severe, the plastisol would compensate where the glue bead wouldn't.

tom

vwracer

The problem as I see it is that you can not inspect the inner filter for manufactors defects on a sealed disposable filter. A $2 store brand has just as much chance of a defect as a $12 premium brand. We are at the mercy of the quality control guy at the plant to be sure that the filter inside the canister was indeed made correctly without any flows. One thing I would ask any manufactor is about their defect rate and quality control standards.

Has anyone ever used a SYSTEM 1 filter? This is a permanent filter that uses a stainless steel mesh screen that you take apart and clean then use again. I have seen them on race cars but have never talked to anyone that uses them.

harry31

I've never used a 'permanent' oil filter. Probably never will. The factory warranty on my new SUV states that regular oil and oil FILTER changes MUST be made for the warranty to stay in effect.
I do wish that the oil filters were bigger. Those suckers are SO small ...

wain

someone needs to start a web site for equivalent larger filters - the filter makers do not want you to use them cause their profit margin is lower, as most filter sell at one price.
I think they exist
like for 4 Cyl camrys the 14477 interchanging for the shorter 14476?

adc100

As I've said earlier the Purolator Book on about page 929 is the best place to select a bigger filter.

Question: My Toyota 22RE engine calls for a Purolator PL10241. Based on the Purolator book I selected one significantly bigger which has an extra disc in the outlet. Its purpose is to cut down outlet flow if the bypass opens (I believe). I guess I'm looking for additional information on this device. The filter is also used on the Later Model 2L DOHC engine- if Focus.
Apparently it works O.K. because I have used two already in the vehicle. (I'm a risk taker)

coonhound

Re: charlesb la. Thank you for that link. That is some good information. Sounds like that guy just did that out of curiosity.

Also it has all the information on all the old Chrysler products. I have an old 87 Le Baron for my Hobby car and there is some good info. for maintaining this old vehicle.

fleetwoodsimca

That aligns well with my suppositions on the paper end cap. Filtering media and cannister strength surely must be more important factors.

csandste

forum you'll see comments by a genuine Frantz (toilet paper) filter user. I guess some of these units are still out there chugging away. At the time of their hayday (late sixties) I think they were advertised as being able to filter down to five microns. I expect some of the reason for their demise is that few engine bays these days would allow for easy insertion of a roll of Scott tissue.

zr2rando

I just checked the Pureone on my Chevy truck, just changed the oil...the PureOne has 236 in sq vs the Ac pf52 has 244...(the Walmart and Kmart pf52 both had 244),,,,looks like the Pureone 24011 DOES NOT win over the AC PF52,,,but it does cost twice as much....hhhmmmm
see y'all
Gotta watch some Olympics!
Rando

adc100

I'm sure the Pure One wins out. Also the Pure One could hold more dirt, depending on the composition of the media. Last time I checked the AC was not a really good filter. I'm not prejudice, I don't use either.

zr2rando

I was just comparing the filters visually, and they were used filters. As far as the dirty paper is concerned thePure-one and the AC all LOOK the same, Pure-one does not say they use synthetic media, and in this application it does not have any more paper than the pf52...I have also heard that the AC filters are about the least efficient that there is, I do the 3k/3mo thing so I don't really push the limits anyway,,on oil or filter. I always thought those Pure-ones were supposed to be more paper content than the corresponding filters, and was just pointing out that in this case that was not so.
Good Morning
Rando

knapp3

Here is an interesting site by Delco:

http://www.acdelcotechconnect.com/html/tpi_fil.htm

gsleve

that tsjay commented that the pureone filter is a synthetic media and his company in some way produces in part or whole the filtering media here are his comments on a previous post:

Oct 21, 2001 (05:53 am)
"The Pure One has micro glass, and it actually has a lot of it compared to other high-efficiency filters. That's why they get 96% efficiency on the J806 test. We make the media for the Pure One, so I know what goes into that paper."

tom

tsjay

Yes, my friends, the media contains micro-glass, and the Pure Ones should be excellent filters. We produce the media.

I am surprised that there were no more square inches of paper in the Pure One than there was in the other filters. The media is more restrictive than for most filters, and they usually add pleats to compensate for that.

If you are going 3K on oil changes, then I wouldn't worry about the Pure One clogging and by-passing, even if it did have the same number of square inches of paper.

Please keep in mind how over-designed automotive oil filters are! They hold more dirt than they would ever realistically see in the real world. But the companies compete based on test stand data, so they keep trying to out-perform each other.

tom

fleetwoodsimca

I have yet to hear a convincing argument that using a premium filter rather than a mid-grade filter is of any worthwhile advantage for drivers that change oil and filter in the 3K-5K range.

wh23fdct

After reading the last 50-60 posts about purolator defecting into frams and other conspiracies, Im happy I just installed a Hastings on my truck. nothing bad to be said about them yet! only $5.25 compared to $5.99 for the framolater pure one. Good investigating. Jim

rcr2

Anyone have an opinion (pro or con) about Motorcraft oil filters?

tsjay

They are much better than they used to be. The paper that we make for them is much more efficient than it was a few years ago. They changed their specs for higher efficiency. The old Motorcrafts would last forever, but they had very low efficiency.

tom

knapp3

I have 2 ford vehicles. I've been very pleased with Motorcraft filters. Data about them is rare. Here is a site I found once:

http://www.danwieboldford.com/oil.shtml

brorjace

adc100, Didn't you say you switched to K&N oil filters?

I thought I remember seeing something on another forum about them being made for racing ... and not to be used for a long time. You might want to e-mail them and tell them how long you intend to use their filter, just to be sure.

If you get an interesting answer (pro or con) please post it here. >;^)

wdfdct23, I just started using Hastings since the Filtech OEM Hondas are becoming VERY scarce. I'll be pulling mine (LF-402) off in another month and hacking the bugger open. I'll also be having the oil tested ... but that won't be until May or June.

--- Bror Jace

adc100

Good point... It says on the box "...to satisfy the needs of performance and racing car owners and drivers, as well as the average vehicle owner who wants the very best oil filter available." Since I downed RedLine for possibly not made for extended performance intervals, I should be more careful. It doesn't say on the box that new car waranties remain in force ...bla...bla...bla. You'd probably have trouble cashing in on that anyway. I'll check with them and post.

Thanks again,
Al

zr2rando

Thanks for that info, the Pure-one box says "micronic", I guess that is Pureone-ese for "synthetic"??, Just looking at the dirty paper I could not visually see the difference.
Also, That Pure-one did not have any string wrapped around the cartridge, maybe they don't do that any more? It did have metal endcaps though, and slightly less sq in of filter material..
Thanks again
see y'all
Good morning,
Rando

tsjay

Purolator has at least one line that uses the string, and that in itself does not indicate poor quality. I really don't have a problem with the string personally.

Remember, guys, even when filters are from the same company, they come from different production lines. The big name filter manufacturers have several production lines within one plant, and sometimes they even have entirely different plants. Some of the lines may have been modernized while others may be older and have not yet been upgraded.

Older doesn't necessarily mean lower quality, either. The modernization of the lines is usually for higher output and/or fewer people on the line for lower production costs. Older can even mean better quality, since more of the steps are performed by people rather than by machine.

tom

tsjay

I am not against automization, but remember that pleated filter paper has to be handled in the assembly of filters. Paper has much more variability than steel parts, and humans can compensate for this variability better than machines can.

If the paper is a little thicker, and the pleat packs, therefore, a little longer, humans can compensate for the slightly larger circumference of the cartridge when it is placed into the end caps. A machine would be set for some optimal pleat pack length and would handle some variation, but would not be as adept at handling the extreme ends of the variation as would human hands.

Also, remember that the pleat count varies in most assembly operations. Every so many revolutions of the scoring roll in the pleating equipment, an ink spot is sprayed on the paper. When the stream of pleated paper gets to the cut off station, the person at that work station manually cuts the paper at the ink spot. They can be off a pleat or two on either side of the ink spot. Now, some plants have automatic cutting of the paper into pleat packs, and this gives a more uniform pleat count per filter.

I just feel better with people performing most of the steps, since I know so well the variation that the paper has.

tom

zr2rando

It means jobs for those people too

screwloose

Some years ago Consumer Reports wrote
that the Purolator Pure One was a top
oil filter. Since then I have been
using it. No problems whatsoever. I
have been pouring in Mobil 1 since
'86. No problems. My Camry has no
sludge inside (had to repl eng cyl
head gskt @ 148K mi due to coolant
seep) and has had no mechanical wear
problems - tapping, knocking, leaks
smoking, etc, etc, etc. My '83
Mercedes Turbodiesel never had a
problem in 257K mi until I wrecked
it. I used the M-B Genuine oil
filter. Both these cars had a 5K mi
oil change interval. My wife's Sienna
has 83K mi on it and it gets Pure One
and Mobil 1 at 7.5K mi intervals. No
problemo. I got the last of the 0-30
Mobil 1 at Wal-Mart and will soon go
to the 0-40 that we use in Mercedeses
at work. My newest is a 1.8 Turbo
Passat. She receives 5w-30 Mobil 1 &
Pure One every 5K mi. Too soon to
tell about any problems (13K mi/5
mos). I have used in the past Wix
Gold, Hastings and even AC Delco. No
problems. CHECK & change the oil &
fltr regularly. Use the recommended
API service designated oil (hard not
to) & the proper viscosity and you
will not have to worry. While your
aren't worrying, you will have time
to check the tire pressures so your
tires won't wear out prematurely.
Tires cost BUCKS! Also, don't do a
bunch of stop/go driving. The engine
needs to get warm and be driven a
while before shutting off. Don't warm
your car up in the morning before
taking off, it not only pollutes but
the oil gets contaminated more
quickly.
Happy motoring!

zr2rando

Can you visually tell a difference in the synthetic and the paper fiber in the filters?
Can you see any difference after it is dirty/used?
I have been looking at my used filters after reading all these oil/filter posts out of curiosity..
later gator
Rando