Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

cutehumor

I went to a super kmart in the automotive section. all they carried were fram oil filters. geez..they must be big sellers in order for the kmarts and walmarts to stock them unless they outbid the other oil filter brands.

bburton1

Yeah my local Kmart closed out their Penske filters-and now mostly fram. If you have a Menards around got Quaker state filters on sale a couple of weeks ago for 1.79 ea-forgot who they are made by but they are supposedly very good filters-look similiar to the house brand Walmart filters-but with an extra thingy in the center.

fleetwoodsimca

Fram is a study in marketing, and what happens when one brand overtakes the competitors. Typical consumerism responds to advertising and the presence of product everywhere. This translates into an assumption of quality, desirability, and even value if the price is a little high. Ignorant people seek out the opportunity to pay higher prices for mediocre products, because they assume the price reflects quality. No proof is needed!

ruking1

It is hard to fight that wild ORANGE color too!!

csandste

Quaker State filters are Frams.

fleetwoodsimca

Pennzoil Filters may be Fram produced, as well.

alternator

Apparently I am only going to be logging about 3,000 miles per year in my 2002 Mazda Protege (my older family car will get most of my annual mileage). I wonder about the rationality of following the "Repeated short-distance driving” oil & oil filter change as prescribed by Mazda, namely 5,000 miles or 4 months, whichever comes first. I plan to change the oil & oil filter every 3,000 miles, but changing every 4 months seems excessive to me. Is there any real reason to do so? I’ve always understood that oil doesn’t wear out.

armtdm

I have one car that goes only 5000 miles a year and I change the oil and filter at one year only. Use synthetic and analysis is fine, fuel as a % of total is elevated but I really try to drive it at least 10 miles after starting it so this may be why it is okay for me. If you do not burn off the condensation etc you will begin to see a white milky substance on dipstick and under oil filler cap an indication the engine is not heating up enough

malachy72

in a similar situation. He has an '01 Monte Carlo. It will be 2 years old in March and will have about 8k on it at that time. He has decided to change oil and filter every 6 months with Mobil 1. I may submit a sample of his used oil for analysis, as I have an extra kit.

adc100

I put about 5K on my '92 Toy Truck and it get's once per year. I have not yet done an analysis on this vehicle. But this week it gets changed and will do an analysis. I am using the Rotella T 5W-40 Syn (Group III though) this time.

edwardn1

.....but I can't help but wonder if the diesel specific components are harmful, benign or helpful in a gasoline engine. Rotella and others like it have extra additives for wear due to the extra pressures a diesel places on the oil due to the compression ignition of the beasts (22:1). I have thought of using Rotella 15w40 dino oil in some of my older cars that burn some oil and are driven short distances, thinking that the extra additives may help with sludge and acids, as these are common in a diesel. Or do the extra additives just take up space in the oil or worse yet form deposits. Keep in mind that some of these additives are for dealing with soot which is probably not a concern in a gas engine. ANY INPUT?

alternator

What can happen to regular Valvoline oil in a year anyway? I do try to take my Protege out for a 10 mile round trip once a week in addition to my normal stop-and-go city driving.

adc100

My Toyota Truck uses some oil so the 40 wt is a good thing. I think the Delvac 1 is a much superior oil-also it's a group IV.

malachy72

we are really going off topic here, but I do wonder which is worse, continual short trips or longer trips and longer periods of inactivity? I know the inactivity can cause corrosion and rust in the cylinders... but at what interval? Days ? Weeks?

cutehumor

I've read that when an engine sits for a week of inactivity..that's when corrosion sets in. 3-4 days is the most I will let my car sit.

on another note, what's your opinion of blackstone labs vs. dyson? which is more accurate? I see that dyson is cheaper at 10 dollars per anaylsis, but blackstone gives you free oil test kits. sorry if I'm way off topic, bob's board is down at the moment for routine maintence.

malachy72

a more complete interpretation, I would use Terry Dyson. If N were interested in the minimum, I would try to get a hold of the cheap kits available on Bob's board. I believe Blackstone is actually more expensive than Terry for similar information, TBN, etc.

alternator

Over a period of 18 years I have owned five 4-cyl Chevy Cavaliers. I have always changed my own oil and oil filter. The oil drain hole in the Cavaliers is several inches below the oil filter but when I drain the oil, wait about an hour, and then remove the filter, I still have considerable oil run down from the filter mounting area and the filter itself is pretty much full of oil.

Now, on my 2002 4-cyl 2.0L Mazda Protégé engine the drain hole is again several inches below the oil filter. At my first oil change I waited about an hour after draining the oil, then removed the filter, and I was amazed that seemingly not a drop of oil leaked down from the filter mounting area. And the oil filter looked as if it had no oil inside it at all! Can anyone say if this is normal? Or, if not, what might make this happen? I’m stumped!

ruking1

Actually quite normal. I would change the procedure somewhat and do the oil filter first, then do the oil. The order will not change the amount of oil left in the filter however.

alternator

Thanks for quick reply! Why do the filter first? I was so surprised because the filter looked as if it had never had a drop of oil in it ever.

ruking1

#1794

Since there is no leak back, the actual task time is shorter. While the oil is draining you can be wiping down the oil fittings and greasing or oiling the seal on the new filter and retorquing back on. Some folks go so far as to pre load the new oil filter with oil (usually if it is vertical, i.e., oil doesnt drain out when you go to reattach it.)

bluedevils

Today at Wal-Mart I bought 2 of these @ $1.97 apiece. I noticed 2 ST2808 filters in the old (sky blue) box and probably 20 in the newer (black) box. I happened to look at an old filter and a new filter and was surprised to see a notable difference, which I will now attempt to describe.

Inside the middle of the opening on the old ST2808, there was a small open-topped metal cylinder at the bottom (top?) of the filter - furthest away from the open end of the filter. Is this the anti-drainback valve or something? The newer ST2808 did not have any such thing in the middle of the opening. Isn't this a significant variation?

The newer ST2808 also seemed to have slightly larger and slightly fewer holes inside the filter.

I can never remember - is an anti-drainback unnecessary in a vertical filter application, or in a horizontal application, or neither?

I ended up buying the 2 old ones - figured I'd grab them just in case they're better than the newer ones, since the old ones seem pretty scarce.

fleetwoodsimca

You could think of it this way: A filter that is oriented on the car is such a position that gravity cannot pull oil out of the canister is a filter not needing a drain back valve.

bluedevils

So does the thing I described on the older ST2808 sound like a drainback valve? If so, I wonder why Wal-Mart started having this filter produced (by Champion Labs, right?) without it?

fleetwoodsimca

Most valves located in the center line tube in the middle of the canister are BYPASS valves. The typical anti-flowback valve is a rubber looking flapper valve that rests on the inside face of the big circle of holes going around the circumference of the canister base, just inside the circle made by the base gasket ring.
Popular consensus seems to still have it that Champion Labs makes the Supertech house brand filters for Walmart.

bluedevils

Must have been a bypass valve that I saw.

adc100

If the new ones didn't have anything at the bottom (bypass valve)-whats up with that? Is it possible that someone stuffed a different filter in the box or maybe it was mis labled. Perhaps they moved the bypass valve to the inlet side. That would be good. You should notice that mechanism just inside the large filter outlet hole. Interesting. Thoughts anyone???

BTW that 2808 would be the oversize filter I may use on my son-in-laws Nissan. I have been using the Mobil 1 but I'm done with that. I need to stop spending so much.

bluedevils

I'm pretty sure I looked a 2 of the newer ones and both lacked the bypass valve that was at the bottom of the old one.

Next time I'm at Wal-Mart, I'll take another look.

fleetwoodsimca

This is where it would be good to have a "Master Filter Book" for the Supertech line, much like the books that NAPA has for their filters. One could look up the details on that filter and verify what is there, and what is not. Is there any book out there that covers Supertech? I would "fear" making a substitution without confirmation, now.

bluedevils

Today I saw an old and a new ST2808. Different Wal-Mart. Both were labeled ST2808. The old one (blue box and blue shell) had the bypass valve. The new one did not have a bypass valve in any place that I could see it (through inlet holes etc.). I don't understand much about filters, but this seems to be a pretty significant fundamental difference between the 2.

wain

Maybe we can get Trent to look into it b4 he leaves.

seriously e mail ST

df2000

There is a bypass valve on st2808.it is new design,I read on the net.Next time look for 6 little holes on a buttom of filter, filter have second sheet of metal behind so they hardly visible(it is good no dirty oil get in unless it in bypass mode).I already seen same design for st2808 cousins in STP, BOSCH. Would not surprise if MOBIL 1 and K&N follow.Hard to say if this bad or good, probably cheaper.

adc100

The nice thing is that it gives cross references and also gives dimensions and bypass settings. Good stuff.

http://www.baldwinfilters.com/index.html

fleetwoodsimca

Good link. Thanks, adc100.

edwardn1

...supertech filters are excellent and much better than a fram, but the NEW BLACK ones now have semi-synthetic fibers in with the paper. Kind of along the lines of the mobil 1 filter also made by champion labs. I feel these would be a great buy at twice the 1.97 price.

wain

that baldwin site is incredible.
the spec on the filters are great.
odd that a b33 baldwin crosses to 13 toyota fiters?????

ruking1

#1810

I have had the feeling for years that the real reason there are so many sizes is to create market pockets where they can charge a lot more money individually for essentially the same product. A 13-1 ratio really stands out. As they see that their strategy may or may not be working they reconsider consolidating.

To give you a for instance, my TLC oil filter (oem 3.25 ea) is crossed with a Fram PH8A oil filter (2.50 ea). Toyota has seen fit to change the stock # at least 3 times. At least one of those times they have decreased the size of the oil filter by app 1/3 to 1/2. Do you think the price of the latest stock # is priced higher or lower?The latest one is (4.86 ea) The money may not seem like a lot but the % in this case approaches 50% higher.

In some ways this is not rocket science. The task is to filter oil under pressure, though usually a synthetic filter media and if the media can't handle all the flow, provide an overflow valve so that oil can reach criticial areas with or without filtering. All filters have to pass some "J xxx" SAE test, but that fact is not commonly known or documented.

fleetwoodsimca

Apparently none of the major sellers fail to meet the minimum standards, regardless of soiled reputations.

ruking1

I think also the other truth of the matter is that the technology exists to almost categorically get rid of the situations that wear engines down. The problem is that it is not profitable to do so.

A small for example: It is widely know that a dual in tandem oil filter set up can literally keep engine oil clean for at least double the manufacturers recommended life. Why not commonly available? Well let us put it this way, the goal is not to sell LESS OIL. And the goal is not to prolong the life of "OLD" cars.

Another example is that 60% of engine wear is at start up!! There are preoil systems that can coat the moving parts before the engine starts. Don't like cold oil on the moving parts? There are engine oil heaters that can make oil toasty again before the engine turns over.

fleetwoodsimca

I presume that because current passenger vehicles can easily turn over six figures in logged miles without failure due to engine wear-out, there is little interest in the various filtration expansions and oil heaters. Big highway trucks are another story, it would seem. The long distance haulers expect more like seven figures and the manufacturers (I presume) put the extras in those vehicles.

ruking1

#1814

Yes, you have hit it on the head. There is no reason with current technology, that passenger cars can not go 500-700 k miles ie half to 3/4 of a million miles with minimum unscheduled maintenance. If we built our cars and light trucks as well as the trucking industry vehicles, it should easily out gun the 7 figure mark. At our normal consumption distributions (avg 12-15k miles per year)... Well I think it becomes cystal clear!?

ata3001

I have a 01 Corolla and the recommended Purolator Pure One filter is PL14476. Does anyone know which Purolator Pure One filter I can use which has a longer length (higher capacity) in place of this thimble sized filter? I am only interested in either Purolator Pure One and Mobile 1 filters.

wain

maybe the 14477
check the specs

adc100

Just as good as the Baldwin site.

http://www.wixfilters.com/

Interesting - I looked up my filter for my 01 Sentra and in Baldwin the bypass was 14psi. The same filter is set at 8-11 psi in the WIX manual.

I'll take the 14 psi filter thank-you.

fleetwoodsimca

Are you sure? It might be safer to go with the easier opening bypass. (:o]

cutehumor

does anyone know who makes these oil filters? I found a ton of them at target but i'm weary that they are frams in disguise

edwardn1

...the car and driver are made by champion labs, the same one who makes the supertech. However, the current supertech has synthetic fibers like the superpremium mobil one. I doubt if the target is made with synthetic fibers.
Still, it is not by fram.

fleetwoodsimca

How are the C&D filters priced compared to Supertech?

csandste

-- I haven't cut one open, but I doubt if Target spec'd a different media. When STP and SuperTech changed-- I betcha Car and Driver did as well.

edwardn1

That if they had upgraded to synthetic fibers they would say so on the box. Can anyone contact champion labs? I personally buy nothing from Target as they were quite disrespectful to The Vietnam Veterans Assoc. I'm a Viet Vet (Det.1, 377th ABW, Bien Hoa, RVN, 72-73) so that bothered me a bit. It is good that the Car and Driver brand gives another non fram choice for those who shop at target.

cutehumor

yep, it's made by champion labs. the price was close to $3 for my car. not as a great deal as the supertechs from walmart but still a viable alternative. has anyone got any good oil deals lately? kmart advertised mobil 1 for $1 a quart but it was the dino instead of the synthetic