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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?
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Then you have decided to use a cheapo paper oil filter because some have said that they don't do anything anyway? How in the world does that make sense when you look at your overall approach. You ignore hundred of oil analyses and do overkill on changes and them skimp on the filter because someone says they are of no use?
Maybe I'm crazy but this seems like contradictory thinking.
See, bigorange, I read on Bob's site that the expensive filters that filter more may actually not do as good a job at preventing engine wear as a cheaper filter that flows more oil. So I don't mind spending more for a Mobil 1 if it indeed will improve the performance of my oil filter. I would be interested in seeing the site you referenced above or any other sites that have good info on filters, esp Mobil 1 vs Ford Motorcraft. I have read some of Bob's site, that was when I started thinking the Mobil 1 may actually be better. I am still learning
My choices are PROLINE, Purolator, or Fram. I know the consensus is to avoid Fram ... so which should I choose between Proline and Purolator?
As far as the debate between added protection Mobile 1 (and other synthetics) may offer ... all I have to add is this. I spoke with a rebuild mechanic who told me synthetic oil engines are considerably "cleaner" than DINO engines.
I personally would avoid PepBoys for oil changes(or any car maintenance)-but thats just me.
Bigorange,
I don't think there is evidence that filters don't do anything. I am just undecided on how much filters actually NEED to filter out and if changing oil only would be sufficient.
It would be easier to run the same filter on a new car with changing the oil only, but of course I am not willing to do that.
I am thinking about doing that with my 198,000 truck, but if the engine goes after 30,000 or so, it wouldn't tell me anything because it could of happen with routinely changing the oil filter. Now if I could put anther 60,000 on that would have some meaning. I guess I could do a oil analysis and see if it is getting significantly worse over time. Maybe I will even break down and go into a wal-mart and get a supertech filter to do this.
More important is Viscosity as this has a direct effect on engine wear. Also the Level of Phospates in the Oil as this helps to maintain seals and reduce wear.....
Regards,
Airwolf1000
It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that synthetic oil can go as high as 1m miles in a diesel rig no less!! Of course they are equipt with double filtration systems and preoilers., and manufactured to a higher standard and durability.
From a marketing perspective, the gas engines really don't need to go much pass 250k . So even if they were manufactured to last 500k who would buy them? Who would keep them? More importantly who would pay the extra manufacturing costs?
I would but I am a statistical anomoly!
So if one wants to go past 100k one only needs to install a preoiler and bypass filter. (two filter configuration) Cost aftermarket: 300-500 dollars. The cost justification would be to forstall an engine rebuild (app 1.5-5k) for as long as possible.
Given the fact that most folks trade or buy newer when the vehicle is max 8.5 years and with a yearly mileage of 12-15k per year the ranges is between 102-128k, folks are looking to replace. I would say the manufacturers and the customers are dialed into one another.
My point, which was ignored BTW, is that there is a lack of hard evidence on this stuff and that it can be argued forever. Rukings intelligent post about his success with Mobil 1 is very persuasive, but then there is the Blackstone people talking about how they see no advantage to synthetic and that the only thing they have found to make a difference is pre-oilers. Anyone know a good link on pre-oilers and double filtration systems?
Actually Amsoil folks do sell bypass filtration systems.
http://www.amsoil.com/
"Preoilers" can be perused in the Summit Racing catalog.
Talk about revenge of the nerds. When the guys with the pocket protectors and the masking tape on their black glass frames start giving you a hard time, somethings wrong. At least I get dates!
Ruking, your experience with Mobil 1 is about as good a selling point as I can find. Did you use the Mobil 1 filter also?
"Ruking, your experience with Mobil 1 is about as good a selling point as I can find. Did you use the Mobil 1 filter also? "
Let me give you the short answer first. No! If you want to hear the explanation, let me know.
Ruking: I am also interested in hearing what filter you use and why.
OEM AC Delco (PF-44 $2. ea)for the Corvette Z06.
However, the 1987 Toyota Landcruiser that I sold with app 250k I used FRAM PH8A filters !!
Why? I could get it anywhere 2 for 5 bucks. Since the synthetic oil stayed clean longer, you dont have to change the filter as much. While even I would be tempted to say it will decrease the longevity of the engine, it ran strong and CLEAN up until I sold it. Toyota also went to a new oil filter P/N oem. It was WAY smaller and I was skeptical at first. I also along the way got a 91,94,96, and 97 which happen to use the same oil filter. So it was almost like one size fits all!
On the Corvette the interesting thing is that AC Delco had a premium filter called the UPF44. (8 dollars each, this rivals the Mobil One filter) They for whatever reason notified the high performance community they were discontinuing the line. Of course, a campaigned ensued from various vette owners to keep the UPF-44 filter and AC Delco for whatever reasons decided to keep this filter.
In the process of research and also following this thread, I was noticing at Wally Mart that their Super Tech oil filter line was getting its graphics on the box face lifted. On one side of the box are the specifications that looked oddly like the AC Delco UPF44 specifications @8 dollars each. So I pulled it out and lo and behold the Super Tech LOOKS IDENTICAL to the UPF44 sans the graphics !!! So I made it a point to check the specs again for the UPF and it matches EXACTLY with the Super Tech specifications. In fact on closer look in the foot notes it mentions that CHAMPION LABS did the specifications. So the AC Delco UPF @ 8 dollars each morphed into the Super Tech @ 1.97 ea.Both made by Champion Labs. So in closing when I use up my AC Delco PF-44 I will switch to the Super Tech brand!!!
Here is the technical kicker. Fully 60 % of all engine wear happens in the first starts, i.e., parts not sufficiently coated with oil. So with out getting PREOILERS it matters not whether you use synthetic or conventional. Next 40% of all oil wear is due to particles under I believe 20 microns (which filter's do filter) so 40%of engine wear x 40% of wear due to smaller particles is 16% so as you can see it is a very small % and in fact this tracks somewhat with the recommendation for preoilers.
And to some of you I am not fretting; can you say hobby?
Yes in theory!! However the oil lab has no real way to measure the effects of whether or not filtering down further really does prevent further wear between (2k 3k 5k 7.5k intervals)!!!( I am also assuming synthetic oil like a Mobil One) Without doing extremely longer oil change intervals!!!! So now we are talking upwards of 25k intervals. Shoot most folks think I am crazy for doing 12-15k intervals. So if I would have done 25k intervals I would have done a total of 10 oil change intervals on the 87 TLC !! 12-15 and 25k oil changes are just not acceptable to the majority of folks that change oil, not to mention the folks on this thread.
It's still down but you can bookmark it and keep checking back to see if it comes up.
For sure it is the middle step. Especially given what has to be balanced.
1.the built in mechanism in all stock oil filters
which allows oil to flo if the filter gets clogged
beyond being able to filter.from what I understand
this is spring loaded and may vary slightly between brands and applications.
2.A aftermarket seperate filter system,it takes
oil pressure for the intake and returns the oil
via the oil pan or valve cover,the filter can filter much finer particles than the stock oil
filter because if it does get clogged you still
have your stock filter in place.
From what I hear, I am too scared to switch to synthetic on my 198,000 mile truck because there is a good chance leaks will show up. I am thinking about switching to synthetic on my 23,000 mile Jeep. It does not get a lot of miles put on it and when I do drive it, it is usually off-road. I would want to go at least 7,000 on oil changes and that would push me out to a at least a year for a change. Not sure I want to go that long of a time period for changes with the conditions it sees. For now I do plan to keep the Jeep forever though. Maybe even the truck too.
If I wanted to run my truck with the same filter and do oil analysis every other oil change, I could tell by the analysis if the oil is getting worse and the filter is not doing its job?
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html
Anatomy of Oil Filters
http://websorcerer.com/GeekOut/index.html
More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html
Engine Oil Filter Study- Looks to be the same as the one Bigorange listed but different location
http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html
Engine Oil Filter Study- Also the same but slightly different
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/
I read the first link you posted. Based on what I read, it seems that the Toyota OEM is considered unsatisfactory. Given that test I will switch to a Super Tech product (AKA Champion Lab product) for the TLC. Not only is the Champion Lab product BETTER it is also cheaper!! What about that isn't there to like? Thanks for the timely post, which to me amounts to a heads up!
This test also brings up that the look of the filters can be deceiving. So I would not personally judge based on looks alone. The OEM Toyota filter LOOKS GREAT and expensive. The implication that this is a GREAT filter It has a heavy case, silicon seal and with silicon lubricant on the seal from the factory!! The opening is also shrink wrapped.
http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca/gtdproject/fluids/oil_filters.htm
I can see where one of these filters may have a use if you are following the Amsoil oil change at 80,000 miles or 7 years whichever comes first approach, because that extra filter is one of the only ways to clean the oil during that long interval. But if you are a Johnny regular oil change at every 3000 miles type, I can't see where this extra filter would be that important. Seems like again instead of filtering the oil you are changing it regularly. An oil change has to work better than the best filter IMO. I'm not an expert I am just speculating here.
For those interested, there's one thing about by-pass filters that completely surprised me and you won't hear their marketers talk about. Noise. You've got to be very careful where and how it's mounted because the sound generated by the oil pump telescopes through the oil lines to the filter mount and radiates from there outward. Unless you don't care or your oil pump is especially quiet, then dampening MAY be part of the project.
One more thing in answer to #1969. I had never heard of by-pass filtration before I visited the Blackstone site. These are people who's business it is to analyze oil daily. Without endorsing any manufacturer or commercial enterprise their praise of the concept was ringing. After looking into it further I decided to experiment.
Life is risk. Make it fun.
-David
the dual remotes ,Iv'e used the seperate amsoil
bypass on various cars and never had that problem.
The biggest problem Iv'e encountered is finding a
tap to get oil pressure,and finding a place to
mount the filter.
Your problem with tapping into pressure with the single mount, as you probably know, is not a problem with the dual mount; An adapter taking the place of the full flow, simply routes the oil to and from the engine. Another advantage of the dual mount is no loss of pressure, at least not that I can tell. Unlike the single mount, the oil from the by-pass never leaves the pressurized system.
If your ever faced with that problem again you might look to Perma-Cool. They and others make what is called a sandwich adapter that fits between the engine and the full flow with outlet and inlet holes.
http://www.jegs.com enter part #771-189
-David
Are you running Amsoil? How often are you changing your oil? Also, Blackstone said pre-oilers also really helpful, have you looked at them at all? How many miles does your truck have on it, was voiding the warranty a concern? Are you doing oil analysis? I would be interested in hearing of the results.
I am starting to sound like a geniune oil nerd here! Oh well, at least I had friends in High School
I haven't changed the oil yet. It was just installed Jan 1. Only 1000 mi. so far. At 4000 mi. I'll send Blackstone a sample and take their advice on when to change. The mileage read 22,000 when installation was done, well broken in. Blackstone did two analyses to that point with everything looking good.
I'm very high on the concept of pre-oiling, but have yet to find much helpful information yet, mostly from lack of opportunity. Any help here by way of knowledge and/or sources would be greatly appreciated. Someone mentioned Summit. Thanks for that.
I asked the service writer at my dealership about warranty concerns. His reply, "Why would something that keeps the oil cleaner longer be a warranty problem?" How logical. But that doesn't mean that the manufacturer would take the same stance if a pricey fix were in order. So far with GM I haven't found the warranty to be of much use anyway.
oilcan2; I'm using the Amsoil BE-90 by-pass filter($26.50). If you know of or ever run across a cheaper alternative it would be very helpful to hear about. I called the tech people at Hastings who I'm pretty sure make the BE-90 but their data base couldn't find by deminsional data. If I find same I'll let you know as well.
-David
-David