Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

zr2rando

Not all filters have them, some vehicles have a bypass valve built in the oil filter mount, so the filter itself does not have a bypass. I have a Nissan truck-filter DOES have a bypass valve. The supertech equivalent for that truck (st16) looks like it does not have a bypass so I use the motorcraft fl-300 and it works fine. My Chevy trucks have a bypass built in the filter mount so the filter does not have a bypass valve, I use the supertech 3980 for them, far as I can tell, they work fine too. I chg oil/filter every 3k, use normal Havoline/Chevron oil.

americanflag

owners out there running 5W-20 motor water instead of a decent grade of oil because they are shivering in fear of somehow voiding part of their warranty. Here you have installed an aftermarket addition to the oil system of your truck, that is a pretty big step IMO. And if something goes wrong with the engine because of that bypass filter malfunctioning, then GM would probably not be in the wrong for not covering the repair.

If that is not pioneering, I don't know what is, Noobie, except maybe installing your own after market hydrogen fuel cell or perhaps a rocket booster?

Anyway, I would be very interested to hear of your oil analysis results and I applaud the efforts you are taking to maintain your engine. If you have read any of my past posts, then you know I also take this seriously. I would also like to know what you learn about pre-oilers.

noobie1

You're right. I wouldn't try to hold GM responsible if the system malfunctioned and caused damage. The risk is small though. It's a very simple arrangement. My main concern would be running over something in the road that kicked up and punctured or severed one of the oil lines. Ouch!

4000 mi. should roll around in early to mid April. I'll keep you posted.

-David

americanflag

Noobie, are you running Amsoil and using the extended interval thing of 25,000 mile oil changes or are you using Mobil 1? I am going to guess you are using synthetic?

noobie1

Post #1978

mralan

I recently had an Mobil 1 oil change with a Mobil 1 filter. Labor, oil, filter, and tax came to $61.00. I'd like to reduce that a little by using another filter. Someone told me Walmart does Mobil 1 oil changes for approx $30.

Does anyone know what type of filter they use? Hope it's not FRAM.

knapp3

Here is an interesting collection of new oil filter photos.

http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?s=de2987f3ea11f7e45- 52f0012002d2a66&threadid=9528

The Toyota filters are especially fascinating.

ruking1

#1985

Gee I don't know, but if they use the Super Tech filter that is real good!!

oilcan2

I think you posted that in the wrong section,
should have been in the "out of work comedian"
section.

bluedevils

I believe Wal-Mart uses Fram as its default filter, but you should be able to get them to substitute a SuperTech instead. Just ask.

fleetwoodsimca

Check to see if they really did use a Supertech instead of a Fram. While you're at it, check the torque on the drain plug and wipe up some of the oil spilled on the chassis during the procedure. Check the level on the dipstick to be certain they didn't under or over fill the crankcase with oil. You'd better stand by and watch the guys doing the work, so that you can be relatively comfortable that they used the correct oil, as well.
Those are some of the reasons so many of us do our own oil and filter changes.

americanflag

Also, maybe you were on the right track using the Mobil 1 filter, that is what I am going to. How much is a tank of gas? Compare that to $61 every 4 months.

fleetwoodsimca

Having a car dealer do your oil and filter change does not necessarily better your prospects. I took a new Geo Prizm into the Chevrolet dealership where I bought it, and they did a free first oil and filter change. I drove home 4 miles, and decided to check their work. The 3.5 quart crankcase had 5 quarts of nice fresh oil in it. I rest my case, americanflag.

bluedevils

The dealer is not necessarily more likely to do the job right. Like the quick lube places, dealers seem to have many inexperienced techs do the more mundane procedures such as oil changes.

armtdm

Based upon what TI have been seeing on other boards as to the results of the 5w20 oil analysis it is holding up and protecting fine. Will see what they show in the summer heat but so far they are working.

As to filters, well, more and more evidence seems to be cropping up that it makes no diff what you use or how often they are changed, they basically do nothing as the particle size is too small to capure and th eoil holds it in suspension and is doing all the work.

Cut one open after your next change. If you expect to see a ton of gunk and particles you will be surprised to see nothing there (assuming that you have not used a cleanign agent in the oil)

fleetwoodsimca

the theorem that oil filters do almost no filtering in engines seems to be based on the premise that "Seeing is Believing."
Not having microscopic vision, I'll stick with the indirect evidence approach, based on science.

americanflag

thing. I don't think cutting the filter open is a scientific analysis. It seems a better method would be to use oil analysis after a cheaper filter, and then after a more expensive filter like Mobil 1. I am looking forward to seeing from the analysis if there is a difference in Si, etc.

However, with regard to dealer oil changes, I still think you are in better hands with the dealer than with Jiffy Lube. First, my dealer lets me watch the oil change. I like that. Second, at least the dealer will use the oil grade called for by your car, not a standard 10W-30 for everyone.

Well, wait. If your dealer is Ford or Honda, and that means they give you 5W-20, maybe you are better off with Jiffy Lube.

And I hear about oil analysis showing 5W-20 is okay. What is it really showing? The oil was thin when it was new and now it is still thin as water. Great, I'm convinced LOL.

vidtech

i seriously doubt you or any one will be able to see the fine particulates that are trapped in the filter media after several thousand miles.be thankful you cannot see any thing,if you could your engine would on its last breath anyway.

americanflag

the 5W-20 Oil discussion.

ruking1

Well guy's and gals, it was 65 degrees and sunny out, so I got MOTIVATED to jack up the Corvette (hardest part of this car's oil change) and proceeded to change the oil(Mobil One 5w-30) and oil filter (AC Delco PF44)! (app 13k, had 2k left!!)Then did the clean up. (second hardest part) I even saved the oil to be recycled! Life is good!

americanflag

5W-20 in that Vette? LOL.

csandste

I hang a big snotty sign on the dashboard stating SuperTech 2808 only please, no Fram filters ever! If you don't do that you're going to get a Fram.

vidtech

i would like to know how you tell the diiference between the 20 micron and 30 micron paticles. these particles are so small they actually embed into the pores of the filter paper.like i stated before,if you see a lot of particles in the filter you can bet your engine is close to being spent.

americanflag

and I saw Si (sand, dirt) of around 9 or 10. LOL.

mosquitonet

i think super tech,bosch and mobil 1 have the same built (structure and design). price difference is probably attributed to the amt. of synthetic fibers on the filtering medium. safely to say chosing a super tech filter is a good option when budget is in question.

bigorange30

that Super Tech made a filter with synthetic media. Do they have a website where we could read some specs?

ruking1

#2006

In the case of the Super Tech (AC Delco PF44), not only are they synthetic, but are made by Champion Labs. The information is right on the box!! They meet the standard for the AC Delco premium ULTRA guard or UPF44 which is a neck and neck competitor of the Mobil One filter.

edwardn1

The Wal-Mart Supertech is a phenominal buy. It is the best bang for even three or four times the buck. First you get a semi synthetic media, you get a media with metal not cardboard end caps, on the one for my 92 4cyl camry you get a nice ORING for the seal against the engine instead of CHEAP POORLY CUT RUBBER, you get an antibackflow check valve that does not leak, they cost less than two lousy bucks and you can buy one while the old lady is buying groceries and sewing equipment. What more could you want, plus you're probably in the store anyway to get something else.

kansan

I changed the oil in my 2003 Chevy 1500HD for the first time, and used a Supertech 3675(?not positive about the number) filter I had on hand for the 2000 Silverado that I traded in and noted that the one I took off was an AC Delco P44. The Supertech was bigger, but it fit fine and didn't leak so I'm assuming it's Ok. I checked the book at Wal-mart but it wasn't updated for 2003 Models yet, and for 2002 it calls out the 3675(?) filter. I haven't read about any changes in the 2003 Cehvy V8s versus the 2002s, so am curious if anyone knows why it has a different filter than the 2002s? Is there some internal difference such as the anti-drain back valve or bypass valve that I should know about? If there isn't I would assume since the 3675 was bigger that it should be better (more filter media).
Thanks,
Ken

ruking1

The equivalent for the AC Delco pf44 is the ST 3614 (I believe).

slickracer

The Supertech equivalent to the AC PF44 is the 3506

slickracer

The Supertech equivalent to the AC PF44 is the 3506. The 3614 is a Chrysler filter.

ruking1

Thanks. The point being look for your equivalent. Since the ST filters are made by Champion Labs, they list the AC Delco equivalents right on the box.

kansan

I went to the bobistheoilguy.com website and there was a discussion about the pf44 versus the pf59s and their equivalents, and why they switched from the 59s to the 44s on their trucks. They both will fit, the 59s are bigger, and both have the anti-drainback valve. They spculated that some of the possible reasons were the EPA pushing for smaller filters for disposal concerns or maybe GM is standardizing so that more vehicles use the same filters, and since the 59s are bigger there are some applications where there isn't enough clearance. I called the Chevy dealer and he said the 44s had a valve to hold the oil pressure in the engine so it would be quieter at start up. That really does not hold water because from what I've been told, the 59s also have an anti-drainback valve, which is the valve he was talking about. I think the standardization issue makes the most sense.

ruking1

#2014

I think your conclusion is pretty well on the mark. I mean why would you engineer a filter differently EXCEPT for the size issue?

I also have a TLC (whose filter requirement was down sized by the OEM) that basically got down sized from a Fram PH8A filter to a AC Delco PF53 application. (bigger than a softball size to slightly smaller than a baseball size. Frankly other than a PH8A filter requiring almost a half quart more oil than the PF53 there is virtually no discernible operating difference. That being so I think the manufacturers opted for the economy of scale and selling more and having to inventory less sizes. (faster inventory turns)

I also have a PF44 application and in my estimation, not only is the SuperTech equivalent size (PF44, FRAM 2.50-6 dollars etc) cheaper (1.97), but the filter is on par with the AC Delco UPF44 (premium filter) at $8.00. (Mobil One filter competitor $9-13.)

I for one, see a greater benefit here. In my case, a 4 to one savings and premium quality for commodity pricing ! I like that!

fleetwoodsimca

The Supertech filters are such a good thing, I fear the offering will go away. Kmart quit restocking WIX filters under house names, but their circumstances are far less than Walmart. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

arcticman

a 3614. They look identical except the 3600 is about 1" longer. Both vehicles will accommodate the longer filter. Why would ST make two filters the same diameter but one is longer? Is it for longer drain interval apps or better filtering ability? (more filter capacity and more filtering media). Thread ID looks the same. Also, anyone out there with empirical evidence as to the efficacy of Japan-made Toyota OEM filters (not the Fram knockoffs sold by Romainia et al) compared to the supertechs?

newcar31

No, you have to use the 3614. There are tons of filters that have the same diatmeter but aren't the same. The 3614 is for many different cars, like Toyotas and Chryslers. The 3600 is for Fords. 3387, 3593A, 3980, 3600, etc. all have the same diameters but they are different filters.

malachy72

filters have you hoarded away?

fleetwoodsimca

I've got 26 oil filters and 14 air filters on the shelf. I am toying with the "just in time" inventory theory, but can't seem to get away from the "buy the bargain and worry about overstocking later" reality. These filters cover 5 cars and trucks, 1 motorcycle, 1 garden tractor, 1 chipper shredder, 1 lawn mower, 1 weed cutter, and maybe that is about it. Please feel free to use me as a bad example.

bluedevils

Where have you picked up bargain air filters? I tend to employ a just-in-time air filter inventory strategy, since I never seem to find any great deals, closeouts, etc. on air filters for our 2 vehicles. I have 7 oil filters on hand now. It's convenient that our 2 vehicles use the same filters. I think I will be able to resist buying any more PureOne filters, even though they are only 5 bucks at our 24-hour (Meijer) store. Some auto parts stores in my area charge $6 for them. 2 bucks for a SuperTech seems the better buy.

malachy72

runs out of stock,I'll have them call you!
ROTFLMAO

cutehumor

I have 26 oil filters in stock as well. lol I bought 18 havoline oil filters at 1.50 each at Fred's the other day. Covering three vehicles. the other eight oil filters are supertechs.

adc100

Mobil 1 and K&N are significantly thicker than ST, and Bosch for what its worth. Shell thickness for ST is .012" and about .017" for K&N.
For comparison-Purolator is about .009. That's why I don't use the Purolators.

fleetwoodsimca

bluedevils-- I bought several air filters at Kmart when the Penske stuff went on sale. I got a close out on air filters for my tractor (6 of 'em!) at a military exchange. The few others are single filters (not bargains, sadly), mostly for implements.(:o]

edwardn1

...are often the result of manufacturers wanting to simplify. Chrysler went from a PH8A, a large filter to a PH43, a rather small filter recommendation on all their engines in about 1973. My 225 equiped Dart Sport came with the smaller filter, even though from 1960-72 the bigger filter was used. In the factory shop manual it says the smaller filter is REQUIRED on the 318 and 360 but on the 225 and 198 the longer filter may be used. So being chrysler simplified, Fram and all of the others followed suit and still recommend the smaller filter to this day, when in fact the larger PH43 is ok according to the factory shop manual. You see, chrysler put the smaller filter on all the engines from 73 onward even though the 318 and 360 were the only ones that needed them. The 225 and 198 sixes had LOTS of room for the bigger filter and could even take TWO of them stacked on top of each other.
What I am leading to is that if you have an engine that once used a bigger filter and the car maker went to a smaller filter for a different engine in their lineup and decided to use the smaller filter in other engines in their lineup to simplify the inventory, then you get stuck with a smaller than ideal filter. BUT if the engine always used that filter from the beginning be careful, as there is a lot more to a filter than base diameter. Hope this helps explain how this happens, sorry for rambling on. Ed.

edwardn1

...from eternity till 72 or so chrysler called for the large ph8a filter in both sixes and v8 engines. In about 73 some of the V8 engines with certain equipment needed a smaller filter for clearance. But instead of calling for the small filter (PH-43) for just the engines with the clearance problem, they put it in ALL eights and sixes from then on, including the sixes which never had a clearance problem. This is how we wind up with specs calling for a small filter and a larger one will fit beautifully. You see the aftermarket people like fram and all others follow the current manufacturers recommendation, they really don't check it out for themselves. Hope this makes more sense than my last post.

jc1973

well i have a 1998 grand am 3.1 engine the book says a 3387 but i have been using a 3980 instead is this okay or am i doing damage

edwardn1

...Call or email champion labs and they will tell you if the bypass and check valve features of your substitution for the factory recommendation are safe. Beware if you have an oil related problem you have more to stand on if you stay in spec.

kansan

My 1992 Lumina Minivan called for an AC Delco pf52 (ST 3980) for the 3.1 Litre engine, a year or 2 later they started calling for the pf47 (ST 3387) for the 3.1. I think the main reason for this was so that the 3.1 and 3.8 Litre engines would be using the same filter, and they wouldn't have to inventory 2 different filters. On the 3.8 Litre engine the filter is hard to get to and there isn't much clearance, however, I was still able to get the ST 3980 on it and did not notice any problems or extra valve train noise upon startup. However, I went back to the 3387 for the 3.8 as it was a pain getting the longer filter on and off. However, I am still using the longer ST 3980 (pf52 equivalent) on my 1996 Lumina Minivan with a 3.4 L engine, and it calls for the ST 3387, and have not noted any problems or noises for the 35,000 miles I've driven it. They did the same thing with the AC Delco pf59 filter, and down sized it to the pf44 for the 2003 GM truck engines. The same exact engine, both filters have the anti drain back valve feature, but the pf44 is smaller and is used on other GM applications. Myself, I think I'll stick with the longer filter called for in the 1999-2002 year models (the pf59), unless someone shows me a reason to do otherwise and go for the smaller pf44 filter.