Ford Super Duty

1568101113

Comments

  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    Mine doesn't have instantaneous either -- there's a rubber stamp in the owner's manual about it. Go figure. You can get an approx by resetting (both buttons) on the constant one.
  • tom18tom18 Member Posts: 89
    Thanks to all for info on Lariat steps. Anyone have a direct E-mail address to Ford for information. I called their 800 number and was confused as to the existence of such a direct contact with the company. I assumed it would be natural for customer service.
  • tnt2tnt2 Member Posts: 115
    Fuel and oil filters are the same as '98 moldels.
  • trap2trap2 Member Posts: 19
    Droz,
    When was your truck made? Maybe this is a new recall.
    trap
  • sd99sd99 Member Posts: 65
    Tomorrow it will be 5 weeks since I picked up my 99 Super Duty F250 SC SB SRW 4X4 5.4 3.73 Lariat. It is the best truck I have ever owned or driven. I have about 850 miles of pure driving pleasure on it. Rides like a dream, and for such a big truck, it rides beautifully on the road. I don't find the 5.4 underpowered at all. The engine is quiet and smooth, the trans shifts perfectly, I just couldn't be happier with the truck. The early returns on fuel mileage is around 14mpg, mostly around town, and the engine isn't even broken in yet. I have snow plowed with it already and found no problem with power. All in all, Ford did it right, and I couldn't be happier. And you know, its kind of fun looking down on those little Chevys. Hope all of you get your trucks real soon. I'll keep you posted.
  • bubba19bubba19 Member Posts: 16
    SD99
    Why the 5.4 over the 7.3, I am going to order am
    next week and I will not do a lot of towing.
    I may go that way as will if your sure it is adequate with this monster. Thnx SD99
  • involuteinvolute Member Posts: 17
    mikefl150. According to most places I talked to around my area, The 1999 SD PSD does not take the same fuel filter as previous years. It does however take the same oil filter. If I have definately been told wrong someone please tell me.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Can anyone enlighten me as to how the ESOF works,
    in comparison to the manual version. Does it
    disconnect the the drive to the front propshaft at
    the transfer case in the same way that the manual
    version does, or does it work on the front axle?
    If that's the case, the front propshaft and diff.
    will still be turning in two wheel drive, not
    good!
    None of the Ford dealers could explain, so now
    I'm turning to the experts!
  • sd99sd99 Member Posts: 65
    Bubba19

    Test drive a 5.4 before you order. The diesel is a great engine, but at $3500. more you need to drive approx. 100,000 miles to break even, and if you don't tow heavy loads why spend the money? It all really depends on what you will be using the truck for. I opted for all around performance and mileage. Also, the 5.4 now comes with 260hp as opposed to the old 5.4 with 235hp. It runs great and is plenty fast for me. I may not win many drag races with this engine, but if I wanted to drag race, I wouldn't have bought a truck. Good luck.
  • tnt2tnt2 Member Posts: 115
    I believe it does both. I have the manual shift in my f350 but the esof in my expedition. If it didn't disconnect the front hubs, (or axles) the diff would be turning all the time. As you mentioned, same goes for the front driveshaft from the transfer case.
  • tom18tom18 Member Posts: 89
    Can you have ESOF with the snowplow Pkg and simply lock the hubs manually when plowing? Then go back to ESOF for normal driving needs or do you hurt yourself by not leaving out ESOF if you do minimal plowing. Earlier a salesperson at Venus Ford, Milwaukee told me that Ford recommends not having ESOF when you order the snowplow pkg. Ford has no e-mail contact for a direct answer that I know of. Yesterday a Dodge salesperson told me ordering a V10 was unwise if you plow on the Ford and Dodge because of the added engine weight. Is this true? He also claim that the Ram has a more beefed up frame than the Ford SD and that it is made at AO Smith right here in Milwaukee.
  • mikef150mikef150 Member Posts: 35
    as far as i have found out, the 99 fuel filters are different than previous years...about an inch shorter (this from several different Ford dealerships) The cost from the dealership is $60.54. The part number in my Powerstroke supplement guide is different than the number the parts department gave me over the phone. I will make some more phone calls to try and get an exact part number. As for places to buy these filters at a reasonable price, I haven't found any..even on the internet...the searching continues.
  • tnt2tnt2 Member Posts: 115
    tom18... Don't quite follow you on the esof and manual hubs. You either have one or the other. I don't know what the difference would be between esof and manual hubs, and plowing snow.

    mikef150...Checking out that fuel filter question some more. Having bought my filters so early in the year (april), had just assumed they were the same. Never really cross referenced to older models.
  • cindy288cindy288 Member Posts: 13
    I have been so impressed by everyones knowledge here, I have learned so much. Two weeks ago I ordered my 250SD,SC,4x4, Lariat. I can't wait to get it!! I was told it will be here in about 12 weeks. Does that sound about right? Just in time for spring.
  • tom18tom18 Member Posts: 89
    I was told with ESOF you could still physically lock the hubs manually if you desired. An option existed. So I assumed that you could lock physically for plowing, but for other normal uses use your ESOF. I am unclear about this concept.
  • cindy288cindy288 Member Posts: 13
    Today I looked at a 250sd on the lot with esof and it also had manual locking hubs,so I assume that you will be able to use either unless this is an extra item you can add but I don't think so.
  • casper47casper47 Member Posts: 17
    tnt2 Sorry it took me so long to get back on.
    I believe that I can get either instant or adv mpg
    by pressing both buttons while on adv mpg it gives me instant mpg. I don't remember if it stays on instant or goes back to adv automatically. I'll have to check it out tomorrow.
    Let you know then.
    Casper47
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    The hubs with ESOF are fully automatic. They may also be locked manually if you choose.

    Those are great MPG numbers with the V8. As predicted, 1-2 MPG over the V10 with the similar axle ratio.

    Does anyone have any figures for the weight differences between the V8 and the V10? I wouldn't think it would have made that much of a difference. I've known several people who plow with the Dodge V10s up North.

    Its unlikely that the Dodge frame is stronger than the Fords. One of the big design features of this truck is that its really a toned-down F750 -- that includes the frame design. They don't ride a little rough for nothing.

    Pressing both buttons in the fuel-economy mode simply resets the calculation -- for the first second you get 'instantaneous' I guess.
  • mroffshoremroffshore Member Posts: 148
    Tnt2, Tom18, Cindy288

    Stanford is correct regarding the ESOF. I have used the SOF on several ocassions both ways. Remember, they lock via a vacum system. This means you must be moving to engage the hubs. If you are dug in, in a stationary position (mud/snow) and did not have the hubs engaged prior to that, you must manually lock in the hubs inorder to use the 4X4. Unless ofcourse you do not need it to get out.

    I just recieved another recall notice regarding the ESOF. My system has worked flawlessly since July but it's better to be safe and have the dealer check it out anyway.

    Mroffshore
  • leroybkrleroybkr Member Posts: 17
    The V10 weighs about 100 lb more than the 5.4 based on the tow ratings. The bore and stroke of the 5.4 and 6.8 are the same, just two more cylinders.
  • involuteinvolute Member Posts: 17
    I have a 1999 SD long bed F250 (6 speed manual). I just purchased an older (1970) 21' travel trailer to camp in. It's not exactly light. My question is : Is it better to keep the revs a little higher when pulling the trailer uphill or should I keep them lower and take advantage of all the torque ? I have never owned a diesel before so I am wondering which way is better for the engine. I'm in Utah so there are plenty of long / steep grades. I know the PSD will fly up the canyons in 4th gear but of course the revs will be higher. Advise ?
  • bad3bad3 Member Posts: 2
    i'am hoping to buy a new superduty diesel but am
    having a problem in deciding on a 6sp or autotrans
    i have a 8k lbs 5th wheel has anyone got any ideas for me i also want a 3.73 gear ratio

    bad3
  • mroffshoremroffshore Member Posts: 148
    Another morning of ice scrapping! Has anyone heard of after market heating installation available for the regular side view mirrors? I'm mad as **** and I can't take it anymore! HAHAHA

    Mroffshore
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    Sounds rough. I'd never really thought about that aspect of heated mirrors. Of course, low here the high is around 50...
  • todlaketodlake Member Posts: 48
    I'm 2 weeks into my wait for my F250 V10 CC SB 4X4 (kinda neat using all those abbreviations) and have been scouring the net for any info relating to the new Super Dutys to help the time pass. Question: Are there other forums designed around the SD? This one is great, but if you hit the site daily, it doesn't use up much time. Thanks!
  • LanceLance Member Posts: 18
    I 2 am waiting 4 my F250 SD V10 CC LPKG SB SRW 4x4 ESOF 3.73 LS WTT PTLI TRL EETM. Hope to get SBL ASAP after TD. CWTGIHSICSTMNB.

    Some translations:
    LPKG = Lariat Package
    WTT = White two tone
    PTLI = Prarie Tan Leather Interior
    TRL = Trailer Two Lights
    EETM = Elephant Ear Tow Mirrors
    SBL = Spray-in Bed Liner
    TD = Taking Delivery
    CWTGIHSICSTMNB = Can't Wait To Get It Home So I Can Start Towing My New Boat
  • longhairlonghair Member Posts: 72
    using the camper loading booklet avail at dealers (which lists options and what they add to the weight and center of gravity of the truck), it looks like these are the weight differences (in pounds on each axle):
    eng trans front rear
    v8 5spd base base
    v8 auto +31 +10
    v10 5sp +134 +6
    v10 auto +175 +13
    psd 6spd +620 +47
    psd auto +596 +30
    these numbers vary a little front/rear depending on the length of the frame, but this will get you close.
  • tnt2tnt2 Member Posts: 115
    I stand corrected. I left my list at the office, but will try to cross reference from memory. The '99's take an FD-4595-A fuel filter and previous years used an FD-4595. Am I right? I have a list of part #'s for other manufacturers, will post later. They run about $30 in local parts stores, if not in stock have them order. Looked back and found my invoice for the filters I bought and realized I got the deal of the year, $12 ea., bought 10 at the time.
  • gobrownfishgobrownfish Member Posts: 44
    To Lance & Todlake: Take heart during your wait
    it is well worth it as all who have been in your
    place can attest. One thing you should keep from
    doing: Do not go and drive on of these SD during
    your wait, once you realize just how wonderful
    these trucks really are, then you are really smitten, can't eat, can't sleep, daydream at work
    and all that stuff.

    Mroffshore: Been there and done that with your
    problem. Can't help with the ice on the mirrors
    but the stress condition can be completely removed
    by a afternoon bird hunt. Its one of those unexplained things that brings all things back into perspective. I sure love my truck. The V-10
    makes it so much fun to drive.
    Best wishes to all,
    The Brown Fish Man
  • KEH4x4KEH4x4 Member Posts: 109
    Welding
    A few weeks ago, someone posted that they had some Ford info that is sent to the after market companies reguarding welding on a Super D. They said that the would post it later and I haven't seen it. So what is the OFFICIAL way to weld on our trucks?
    --------------
    Mirrors
    Snow and Ice country is about 200 miles away from me here in Phoenix AZ. But, a few times a year I travel there to my folks cabin. To prevent scraping ice/snow, I put a towel over my windshield and wrap a towel around each mirror. It works great. But then again, they never get very heavy snow and it is about 20 degrees for the low. Maybe in extreme cold or heavy snow it wont work.
    ------------------
    Grill
    Yesterday I bought a J&J Enterprises (www.j-jent.com) stainless steel tubular grill from a local truck custom part supplier. It was just under $200 installed. But from the J&J web site it cost even more than that not installed. Anyway, it looks great and I have had several compliments on it. Everyone says it looks less like a Dodge now. I never thought it looked like a Dog...er...Dodge.
    Happy truck'n, Ken
  • mccdon1mccdon1 Member Posts: 32
    I just found out that I will be on Guam for an extra 6 months, I am thinking of ordering a 2000 truck. Does anyone know when there will be info available on them?

    Mac
  • lemanslemans Member Posts: 43
    Well I now have over 2000 miles on my truck and have decide that I have made a mistake in choosing the PS. My fuel mileage remains costant at 14.5 to 16.0 miles per gallon. If I had it to do over I would go to the V10 or 5.4 since I will not be pulling a very large trailer. I see all the posting where others are getting good fuel mileage so maybe I have gotton a bad one. At 16,0 miles per gallon my buddy who has the 350 like my 250 with the V10 is geting 17.5 on the highway and doesn't miss a chance to let me know how much better the V10 is getting and he does nothave the maintenance that I do with the PS. So I guess what I am saying those of you who have recieved their truck better re-evaluate if you really need the PS since the maintenance of fuel fiters, oil filters cost more that the V10 gas, large capacity of oil. the maintenance is more costly. Therefore, the PS has taken itself out of contention as far as I am concern. I will probly trade it for a gas next year. I will look at the 454 chev and the V10 Ford since they will have almost the same power as the PS. so I am not goint to put a lot of miles on my truck so it will have low miles on it next year when I go to trade it.
    Another point to consider in ordering a truck is that I have rode in a XLT with cloth seats and they seem to be softer that the leather I have in the lariat package. Also my wife is somewhat dissatified with the 40/20/40 seats in that they are limited in the amount that they recline. We looked at a new 3/4 ton 4 wheel dirve Chev crew cab with the 454 last evening and the seat reclined to a point where you were almost lying down. Again, if you are considering a PS for the power and fuel mileage, analyized it to see if the added cost is worth it, especially when the V10 gets as good if not better fuel(gas) than the PS.
    If I could get the 18 to 20 some of the guys say that they are getting then that would be a different story.
  • cowpokescowpokes Member Posts: 33
    Hello Lemans
    I had to make the choice you did on the PSD vs V-10. I went for the V-10 and I love it. Your PSD still has a few more miles to go before it is even beginning to break in. Most guys around here, (WYO), say they started seeing best milege after 10,000 miles, it is a diesel after all. I want to know want kind of math the guy who says he is getting 17-18 out of the V-10 is using. The truck must be 2WD, 3.73, and not driven over 55mph.
    Give the PSD some miles and I think you will be happy with your choice.
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    Which rear end ratio do you have again? Your mileage figures are bad enough that I suspect you have an engine problem of some sort.

    As for the V10, I know someone with those numbers, but he's running a very short rear-end ratio for highway use. Still has enough low end grunt though. I want to say it was ~3.23ish... have to check.
  • mikey43mikey43 Member Posts: 74
    Lance and Todlake - I'm now at 14+ weeks and still waiting. Mine sounds a lot like yours, Lance, but hunter green and standard mirrors. Been through the whole range of emotions the last few months, from ready to give up completely to going out and looking at what's available on the local lots, but at invioce - $99 I still think it's worth the wait. I just hope it comes before I move from NV to CA sometime between 3/1 and 6/1 so I can use it for hauling stuff. Hang in there.
  • lemanslemans Member Posts: 43
    cowpokes
    It is a two wheel drive with 3:73 gears. He drives around 65 to 70 MPH. Maybe someday I will do the math on his and mine myself. I don't have any reason the dought. Well I mignt have 10000 on mine by next year, but at the present I am disapponited with the PS. Wished I dan gotton the V10.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    I tried to warn you all about the PS diesel. I owned a 7.3L reg. asp. for 170,000 miles. Never again unless I was doing one thing - Over The Road with a big trailer or 5th wheel.
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    The PSD is a great towing motor. My main reason for moving away this time (financial was really a wash) was more convenience than anything else. The gas is quieter and easier to refuel. For most people, if you keep your truck for ~100Kmiles, it really boils down to personal preference.
  • KEH4x4KEH4x4 Member Posts: 109
    lemans, is yours a 4x4? My Crew cab short bed 4x4 V-10 Auto with 4.30LS and 36" tires is getting consistent 10-11 MPG. I would be thrilled to get 14-15 MPG. You are getting one and a half times what I am getting. That is about right for a PSD. If yours is a crew cab 4x4 I would say your mileage isn't too bad. Find out how your buddy is figuring his MPG out.
  • bubba19bubba19 Member Posts: 16
    Hey TO-D-LAKE,

    What a shame to have a great truck and Master Craft wont-a-be behind it. Just kiding, I am a master craft lover. I can't ski behind a N,T, But I will say this for for the boat, it is a graet Bearfooting puller. Good Luck on the truck.
  • bubba19bubba19 Member Posts: 16
    Markbuck,
    I am just about to order my F-250 4x4 and I dont like the sound of the conversation. Please tell me what you know about the 99 PSD.

    Thanks
  • involuteinvolute Member Posts: 17
    My 1999 PSD 4x4 has gotten 17 mpg since day one. I now have 2500 miles on it and look forward to it getting even better. I have the 6 speed w/ 3:73 rear end and stock 235 tires. Unfortunately most of the miles have been city so far with a few sprints up a long steep canyon at 65-70 mph. As far as the extra maintenance goes I only see a little more money spent on oil filters and a lot more on fuel filters, but at once a year it does not bother me. Granted, it does take a lot of oil but oh well.
  • bubba19bubba19 Member Posts: 16
    AIRW
    I tryed your Dealer in Tampa and I was not as lucky as you. Gary would only go $670 over invoice. So I found a dealer out side Orlando
    that would sell below that and I am going this weekend to order. I guest if you think about it 670 is not that bad for the best selling truck
    around. Good luck with your new truck.
  • singer4singer4 Member Posts: 43
    Consider...if you recently or will order an F250,
    4x4(that's the key element!), be concerned about the height of the truck. Currently, there are at least 6 customers awaiting "the kit"(new language)
    that FORD will supply which includes all the necessary and correct parts that will lower your F250 only 2 inches!!, officially keeping it in warranty!!The 4 inch blocks are removed, appropriate shocks are installed, portions of the brake lines are replaced, etc. Keep in mind, the TSB(tech service bulletin) specifically states that once the "kit" is installed(properly), your F250 will be 5th Wheel friendly!!Not quite right!!Avoid confusion and frustration---simply measure your 4x4...it's 57" from ground "0" to the top...and our new 5th wheel coming in is 59" from the underside to the ground...simple math indicates that with FORD'S drop of an additional 2 inches, there exists a clearance of only 4 inches...not enough!! Result...your 5th wheel will need its axles flipped...depending if your RV has Dexter axles...
    the point is, if you ordered an F250 for towing 5th wheelers, better check it out...engineers I conferred with stated that Ford's drop is only 2", and you should have at least 6" between the bottom of your RV and the top of your Super Duty!!
    Oh, and unless you made it clear with your truck dealership concerning who will be responsible for the purchase and installation of the "kit", eff. 2-1-99...you, the consumer will be paying for it..
    direct words from Bruce R. at the K. plant!! Side note...our '99 is just great...V-10, 4x4, 3.73, cloth seats, lots of power, easier to enter and exit than our Explorer, Power Mirrors can be easily interchanged with the PTM's(but still not heated!). And surprisingly, it washes very well(ladder, notwithstanding). We made the right choice!! Dark Toreador Red/Silver accent looks real sharp! Good luck to all!!
    JB
  • casper47casper47 Member Posts: 17
    I have about 1500 miles on my 99 F250 SD CC V10 4X4 auto 3.73 LS LB and at 55 mph I get 12.6 and at 70 to 80 it drops to 10.8. Considering my 94 F150 EXT Cab LB 302 only got around 14 mpg on the Interstate I am satisfied. The power is great, lots more room and it does weigh more.
    FWIW 1 Happy Ford Camper
  • AirwolfAirwolf Member Posts: 142
    Sorry to hear that. Gary just sent me a letter mentioning that you and he had talked. At the time, obviously, he didn't know that it wasn't going anywhere. Question: Did you go BACK to Gary with the other dealer's price and ask if he'd match it? If you haven't ordering yet, you might want to see if he'd match or beat...

    Just wondering,
    Ryan

    P.S. No matter what, you'll have a great time with the new 99.
  • mroffshoremroffshore Member Posts: 148
    Lemans,

    I echo COWPOKES thoughts exactly! I have not heard of that kind of mileage in a v10 thus far! I would like to do the math myself, that kind of mileage would be impressive. Your PS may need more time to break in or like STANFORD said, there may be a malfunction. Are you relying on the trip computer or are you making calculations through fuel consumption? I really feel bad for you because I swear by this PSD engine. Unless something unusual happens over the next 150,000 miles I will always own one. I would say 95% of the people I've talked to have been impressed and satisfied with the PS. Get back to me when you can. Hey I'm wondering how much better the mileage might be if I had the 6sp trans?

    Bubba19,

    The only thing you have to fear is fear itself!!!!!!!! Buy the PSD if you will tow and travel over distances! It's worth the money and the maintenance is not that bad! The cost of repair is certainly more but I still feel your benefits out weigh the negatives!! I do not know why MARKBUCK has an AX to grind with the power stroke but to tell you the truth I'm a little sick of it!!! He has a right to express his opinion and I'm bringing mine!!!

    STANFORD, PROFESSOR RICH back me up on this!
    You can not go wrong! A lemon comes in many shapes and sizes and from different companys! You may get a lemon no matter what you buy. I strongly feel based on my own experience, friends and the Professor himself, the PS is an awesome engine and delivers! Hey I'll cut you check myself I'll put my money where my mouth is! Get back to me when you can.

    Hey Brownfishman,

    You are the man! I had to talk to you, yes I'm a little fired up right now for sure. I need a good bird hunt!!!!! HAHAHAHA

    Mroffshore
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    Sorry if I sound like I'm grinding my ax. You are absolutely correct that a diesel is a great choice if you "tow and travel over distances". I think on the other hand that diesels make poor everyday short distance commuters, expecially if you live at elevation, and cold temperatures. I changed my oil in my 7.3 every 2,500 miles using only premium diesel oil, did all other maintance as needed, but wasn't satisfied with it. The fact is that in my one case, I basically had a diesel that died at about the same time as a gas motor would have and I had to deal with all the annoyance of diesel ownership........
  • texaszachtexaszach Member Posts: 119
    I own a hunting equipment business here in North Texas. About 90% of my customers drive pickups, trucks are a huge topic of conversation here at the shop. Many of my clients have switched to diesels over the years and I myself bought a new F250 Crew Cab 4x4 PSD in 1996. I have been very happy with my truck, both the miles per gallon and horsepower/torque. Considering the kind of heat we have here in the summertime, if I get stuck in stop/go ttraffic, I simply don't worry about the motor overheating which is another postive to the diesel.
    Two weeks ago I was going to be a Cummins, but have since reconsidered. I am about to order a 99 and am getting another Power Stroke, though this time I am going with the manual transmission. I do have a question regarding the seating choice. The dealer I am negotiating with only orders the 40/20/40 seats for his inventory. I leaning toward the captains chairs and console. With the manual transmission, use of the center seat is a moot point. Anyone have thoughts on this?
  • lemanslemans Member Posts: 43
    Ok guys, I did not intend to stir up any arguments. The mileage with my buddies V10 is him doing the calculation. In the next couple of weeks we will be traveling together and I will take a look at the mileage by doing the math myself at fill ups.
    As far as I am concern, some of you who are more exprience with diesels and seome are on their second or third. Well here are some more of my comments, and I do this in all honesty for thoese who have not made up their mind on which engine to buy.
    1. Considering the power. The V10 is some what a little less powerful that the V10 in horspower and torque. However in some of the trailer magiznes, they say that the V10 is very well suitable for towering the largest fifth wheel trailer. so this can be considered a wash.
    2. The initial cost of the diesel is a big condsderation in that he diesel is somewhere between $3000 to $4000 more. Negative
    3. The cost of maintenance is much higher on the diesel for fuel filters, oil filters, amount of oil. Negative
    4. The diesel as I am told will last 200,000 to 300,000 miles where the V10 should last over 100,000 miles or more. I don't know but you could probly replace 2 V10 for the initial cost and added maintenance cost of the diesel.
    5. The diesel is a lot noiser that the V10. Negative
    6. I have found it is a lot more messy at the diesel pumps. This is bacuse the diesel has a more oiler base that does not evaproate like gas. One person who has owned a diesel for a number of years suggested that I purchase a box of the plastic gloves like food handlers have because the nozzels on diese pumps are greasy and dirty at times, more so that gas.
    Now that I have said all of that, I decided on a diesel for several reasons. 1) because of the people who I know who pulls trailers, mostly horse, said that the diesel was the only way to go, 2) and I was told that the diesel would bet the gas hands down. Well maybe this will be true according to a lot of you who say that the diesel will get better after a few miles. I haven't been able to tie the exact mileage down though. Some have said 4000 and some have said 10 to 12000.
    As far as the truck is concern, I am basically happy with it. I was only expecting to get around 18 to 19 mpg. I don think this is unrealistic. If the diesel will not out perform the gas by 4 to 5 mpg then the diesel in my book is a poor choice.
    I am not just trying to put Ford down because I have been a Ford man for over 35 years. But maybe this is the ford that drives me over to gas and worst yet to chev. I appriciate all comments and min are just to get those who have not decided yet something to think about.
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