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Valve noise. Been there side by side with a fellow who is one of the best Hyundai mechie's in the area. According to him, the noise is not the valves themselves, but the chain between the two camshafts. He said that on the pre-CVVT models you would get varying amounts of the noise depending on temp and oil condition. In my '02, the noise varied, but would usually go away when the engine warmed up. The mechie also told me he had not seen a valve train failure on the 2.0L. And this dealer sells a lot of Hyundai.
On the 2.7L V6 they had seen two major failures in three years. In both cases, Hyundai freaked, sent in a brand new crate engine, and did the original failure analysis at the dealer before crating up the entire engine assembly and shipping it back. One was a manufacturing defect in a cylinder block sleeve that destroyed the engine at 45K miles. The other was an oil consumption issue that was finally traced to a microscopic crack in a valve guide, found by using some sort of x-ray examination. That engine was using about one quart per 1K miles, but kept burning up the plug on that cylinder. So Hyundai did a complete tear down and root caused the problem back to the head. The customer had a brand new engine, even though a head replacement would have solved the problem.
I have always been a died in the wool GM fan, grew up in an Oldsmobile (back when it REALLY WAS Oldsmobile) service department where my dad was the service manager. It pains me to say this, but the last Elantra I owned earned 40K miles in 2-1/2 years and the day I traded it on an automatic it had no problems whatsoever. Whoever got that car got a honey. My wife drives a 2004 Yukon which is also a fine auto, but has numerous little squeaks, sounds, and discomforts that come from beancounter engineering. You know what I mean. Engineering says six screws will keep this nice and tight for the life of the car, and accounting says four will get it through warranty and save .20 per vehicle.
The independent mechanic I took my car to heard the noise at startup on idle, and once in a great while I hear what seems to be the noise. But mostly I hear the noise when I'm in the 1,000 - 2,500 RPM range while accelerating. After that, the engine either warms up or is loud enough to drown out the sound. If the car is warm or the weather is warm, I really, really have to listen closely to hear anything at all. As a result, under those conditions, I really don't notice anything. Mostly I notice at night (late) or in the morning (early). It's worse when the car has been sitting a day or so, but I've heard it in as few as three hours after I parked it on a cold night.
The independent mechanic felt that it was the valves, and even the dealer tried to persuade me that ALL Hyundais have this valve noise. However, the other night heard the valve tapping noise from a 2003 Subaru Outback with less than 12K. It only lasted five seconds and TOTALLY disappeared, but it was very distinctive. If my problem IS a valve, it's probably only ONE valve, not the whole valvetrain, which is what it sounded as if I heard last night on the Subaru.
Thanks for helping out, jlflemmons! Based on what your mechanic told you, would you say you agree with the guy I quoted in my post to Backy who seemed to recall a similar explanation from his mechanic (in Germany)?
He wrote, "I had this rattle problem a while back. It ended up to be the spring that controls the tension of the chain that runs the cams (I think they called it the cam chain tension spring?). ... This is the chain actually tapping the valve cover. I was told that the design did not allow enough clearance for slack in the chain over time."
The man I quoted above said also—at another forum so I didn't copy the entire post—that a spring was replaced for the cams or in the cam area, which ELIMINATED the noise!
If a simple spring or the like can eliminate the problem, it's a lot better news than what my dealer and independent mechanic offered (valve noise). The only question now is how to go about trying to explain the part to a mechanic that may or may not be as informed as your mechanic or the German mechanic that fixed the other guy's problem.
As for the vents and exhaust, my dealer claimed to have pulled out the dash to verify that the motors are closing the vents all the way (that was my thought too—a sticky vent motor), but I still hear all the same rattles in the dash that were there before, so I'm not sure if they actually pulled out the entire dash or not. (Unfortunately, my dealer has a history of giving me back my car after oil changes and inspections with a list that says all fluids are up to par, then I go home to find important things like coolant sitting below the "Low" line on the reservoir (I've already had to fill my coolant three times but pressure testing it comes back with no problem; that's another story though). Needless to say, I like my Elantra but I DON'T trust my dealer!
A. Yes, I hear it when doing as you described—but under these conditions I only notice it sometimes depending on how cold it is and if it has been sitting a particularly long while (and I rev it). An independent mechanic heard it in his shop, but he didn't say if he had revved the engine or if he was moving the car at the time (it was first thing in the morning).
The consistently noticeable noise occurs upon acceleration while driving for the first 10 minutes on average. When I get to a stop light, I don't detect anything (that I can hear, anyway). However, the noise starts up again immediately after the light turns and I begin to accelerate. By the time I hit fourth gear (automatic), I really have to strain to hear it because the engine noise begins to mask it (but it's still there). Depending on how cold it is, I can hear it slowly fade out for as long as 20 minutes!
I also neglected to mention that I hear it best when my windows are rolled UP. If I roll the window down, the wind noise drowns out the sound. It sounds like popcorn kernels or pebbles hitting metal inside a plastic cup. I wish the car could cough it up and spit it out!
As it so happens, the first thing I did before I test drove the car was to rev the engine. It wasn't apparent at that point or later on the actual test drive. The noise started shortly after purchase (within the first 1k).
If it were as simple as something loose under the plastic engine cover—which is what it sounds like—I would have HOPED to have found it by now (with all the time it has spent at the dealer for this very reason). At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if it might be the cam chain or tension spring for the chain. One person here and another person on another Elantra forum/newsgroup said that the noise originated from the cam area (chain or chain spring).
Do you have any ideas as to what it might be?
BTW, I am curious if anyone who has posted so far in response to this question has had a similar problem FIXED. Also, are any mechanics here?
Thanks!
I wonder if you know what spark knock is... Spark knock noise is the kind that would go away, most of the time, if you use premium fuel.
I've tried changing octane....
The diagram of how all this works is on the Hyundai web site.
Jim
I ask because I plan to take my car in to see if my local Hyundai dealership can fix the problem. In a call to Hyundai corporate last week, I was also told about a voluntary campaign to check the exhaust manifold for cracks, which can also be mistaken for valve tick. Both of these clues sound like good possibilities in comparison to the valve tapping explanation I've been given. (When you consider that 10-20 minutes of valve tapping at each cold start—if it IS the culprit— basically means I got a lemon, you can understand why I'm so happy to find another possible explanation.)
Thanks to your discussion with the other poster here, I think I'm beginning to have a better picture of what specifically is causing the problem. The dealer has had my car for roughly two solid weeks over the past three years and couldn't do what the two of you have just with a few simple posts!
As dealers go, mine doesn't seem to employ people who are on top of things. It took my dealer THREE years before they even agreed to perform the computer update to my tranny earlier this month to correct the harsh shift issue. The shift flare was the subject of multiple TSBs, but they kept putting the onus on me to call corporate to verify whether or not there really was a TSB or computer update that could fix it. Of course, I knew they would never be satisfied with my "reports" until they heard it with their own ears (since they had previously dismissed my read-it-on-the-Internet inquiry). Now that the computer update has been applied, my AT trans has never shifted better! Still, I find it hard to trust my dealer's competence to work on their OWN cars. They've fixed a few things—replaced a creaky front strut assembly and a burned out dash clock—but the AT and "rocks on the block" issues that started basically from day one stole my new car happiness and replaced it with the same worries I had about the old and unreliable cars I've driven in the past. Don't get me wrong: I like my car, but the lemon question has always haunted me. One major problem down—the transmission—and one to go! I'll report back to let you know how it all turns out.
The ticket, which is dated from July 2002, shows "inspect valve clearance, all at factory specifications" 22200A00. There is a NPF next to my complaint (no problem found?). I have a ticket dated November 2001, however, which indicates that a technician heard a "slight tapping noise" in response to that same complaint just three months after purchase. Since then, all other receipts indicating the complaint—which I remind them of each time I come in for an oil change—do NOT acknowledge that anyone has heard it. I have only a verbal explanation that "all Hyundais make [a valve tapping] sound." Given that there is no further acknowledgment, let alone a cause or documented source attributed the noise, I'm not sure whether my efforts to protect myself really amounts to much. I've tried to document it, but they have refused to put in writing their comment that all Hyundais make valve ticking noises.
Speaking of op codes and poor service, I topped my coolant off (about 8 oz) before and after a road trip in 2003 and there is NO op code listed on the return receipt—just a statement that says they performed a coolant pressure test. When I called Hyundai customer service last week I complained that I don't feel I can trust my dealer: Earlier this month they gave me an inspection sheet that said my rear brakes—which make an unexplained thumping sound upon braking or pulling into my driveway on occasion—were less than 30 percent remaining, while the FRONT brakes were at 70 percent. How the heck do you get that much wear on the rears and so little on the front with low mileage? My first thought was to remember the rear thudding/thumping noise that they never fixed, so I brought it back for them to check to see if anything was grabbing or the ABS sensors were bad, and they, of course, said they couldn't find anything wrong (no op codes for that, either). The inspection sheet after the second trip to the dealer in less than two weeks indicated that I NOW had 70 percent on the REAR brakes, which were at 30 percent the week before! On the second follow up inspection sheet they also changed their opinion of my trans fluid. It went from "discolored" and "needs immediate attention" to "good" and "no problems found." Worse, I checked my coolant level the next day, which was supposedly good, and it was again below the "low" line. I'm REALLY scratching my head, now. Do they really LOOK at fluid levels, brake linings, or are they ripping off customers and corporate for services and inspections never performed?
Without an op code on so many of my service tickets, should I assume the stated work was NOT actually done? In other words, what is the meaning and sigificance of the code? Is there a place online that shows what the code means?
THANKS!!!
The light was out yesterday morning. After my wife told me about it the previous evening, I went into the garage yesterday morning and looked at it myself. Yesterday evening, I washed the car after dinner, and we drove it on a couple of errands. We got about 2 miles down the road and happened to notice that it was now illuminated. She is going to tell this to our service advisor, and ask the service advisor (which we have a good relationship with) to look to see if something might be loose behind the panel. All in all, this has been a really good car for us (knock on wood). We bought the car new at the end of '01 - It is an '02 GLS, and currently has 58,000 miles on it. The only problem we have encountered so far is a faulty Throttle Position Sensor(TPS). We have however, been really good about staying on top of all of the scheduled maintenance. We have also had to replace one of the headlight bulbs (under warranty), and a license plate bulb, and both side marker bulbs (at our cost) - all at different times. But for a car with 58,000 miles, this isn't unexpected. My wife works 13 hour shifts, so she goes to work in the dark, and comes home in the dark - so 75% of the time the car is driven, the lights are on.
Jeff
On December 28 I posted looking for advice, as I was shopping for an Elantra GT. As usual, Backy was helpful and generous with advice. I bought a 2005 GT Hatch on Jan. 7.
The car has 930 miles on it.
Yesterday I heard a noise, similar to what others have described (pellets/popcorn hitting metal, etc.).
The noise doesn't appear to come from under the hood specifically. It does NOT happen while I drive (yet). This was as I got out of the car in the evening (I am in Orlando, FL, and we have had some extra cool weather lately, but not yesterday). The "pings" happened at roughly 5-second intervals. After a minute or so, I walked off, so I can't say how long it went on, etc. It happened once earlier (around 7 pm) and again after some more driving, and a lot louder, around 11 pm. As I said, after parking only.
So, something to do with "cooling"? A/C was not running.
I know this is vague. I read here about loose A/C sprockets, touching/rubbing A/C hoses, valve lifters, etc. I don't have a clue, really.
Also, I looked at hyundaiusa.com but I couldn't find TSBs, etc. (Parts and Accessories was unavailable at the time).
Any input appreciated. Is a stop by the dealer warranted (no pun intended)?
Regards.
Not an uncommon event, and causes no harm.
Jim
Recently bought a used '00 Elantra GLS. Have had it for a few days, and I notice that something about the way everything is aligned gives me some upper ankle pain when I drive. I'm a big guy (6'2") but I've driven compact cars before with no problem. My legs are usually a bit lower to the ground; I think what is going on, though, is that the pedals are raised higher than I am used to.
Anyone know if there's anything I can do about this? I have the seat as low and as far back as it can go...is that the wrong way to adjust it? Should I attempt to have the car modified somehow?
Thanks!
Jim
The technical issue involves an inspection of the exhaust manifold for cracks. If a crack is present, the manifold is replaced free of charge to you. This exhaust manifold will also be warranted for a full 10 years after the vehicle's first date of use. This will protect you if your manifold passes inspection, but has a future issue.
It is interesting that this notice came not from Hyundai, like a regular recall notice, but from the dealer. I made an appointment in early March to do the recall--the earliest I could get a free loner car! They also told me they no longer provide round-trip shuttle service in the area--just one way. Looks like this is the last time I'll be going to this dealer (Denny Hecker's Rosedale Hyundai) since there's another dealer much closer to me. The only reason I kept going there was because I bought the car there and the shuttle dropped me off at my downtown office and picked me up in the afternoon.
I have been to the dealer several times, called Hyundai numerous times and all they tell me is it's not under warranty so it's not their problem.