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Comments
to buy a 2004 CRV from a local dealer today.
My question is:
Is this only related to the first oil change?
What will happen if the filter somehow is broken
and is leaking oil? (I know many old car will
leak oil in some way.)
Thanks
chong
I'm confused...stupid question..please excuse my ignorance...what is it about the FIRST oil change? Isn't there also risk (however miniscule) with each and every oil change? I keep my vehicles forever. Having my oil changed at the dealer each time won't always be convenient or practicle for me. Yes, the word will get out to places like jiffy lube...but I don't feel I would ever trust their service again.
I understand the chances are slim, but it's scary just the same. I'm sorry for your awful experiece steveshari. In the Washington Post this morning, it spoke of one incident where the fire caused an electrical short and all the doors locked from the inside. YIKES!
I now continue to drive a 91 Prelude so I know all about Honda's reliabilty. I really want to feel good about this purchase and besides, my 2 dogs are BEGGING for something bigger.
I'm to pick my CRV up tomorrow afternoon. I'll sleep on it and hope to feel confident in the morning.
Thanks again,
JN
Thanks
-elissa
Not difficult at all to do this and hardly the fault of the car.
The oil changer got in a hurry or just didn't care enough to check for the old gasket.
But still, newer cars are not supposed to go up in flames...period, even with a mistake during an oil change. There is a serious problem here. I've never heard of such a problem ever with a particular model of cars recently.
Honda quickly pointed the fingers at its own technicians. But seriously, doing an oil change should not be like brain surgery. If Honda's own technicians can screw up, imagine how easily a Jiffy Lube or a Grease Monkey would. Honda can't just keep ignoring this problem, as more CR-Vs keep burning up. It will likely take someone dying before something is done and a lawsuit of course that follows.
This issue has gotten national attention, from CNN to the local news and into most newspapers. We can expect some further action from Honda besides the fax they've been sending to their dealers and oil change shops "be more careful during oil changes".
" Be more careful during oil changes"
Make sure you don't get careless enough to not notice the old gasket stuck on the mounting plate!
Heck, I learned that when I was sixteen. Well, nobody actually had to teach me that. Common sense taught me.
Wheels aren't supposted to fall off cars either but if the guy installing your new tires fails to tighten all of the lug nuts, guess what will happen? The car manufactures fault? Hardly!
I never heard of an Accord or a Civic catch on fire from such a problem.
I've learned to not trust what corporations, politicians or celebrities tell me at face value.
Bush "Iraq has tons of Weapons of Mass Destruction"
Honda "The CR-V fires have been caused by dumb factory-certified technicians, that's the extent of it"
Ken Lay "I didn't know Enron was collapsing"
OJ Simpson "I'm 100% not guilty"
Bill Clinton "I did not have sexual relations with that woman..."
This is clearly a design issue. The filter & the gasket and material of the gasket along with location of the filter in engine compartment...
Pretty normal that Honda denies responsibility on this as CRV designed and built by alliens...
This is clearly a design issue. The filter & the gasket and material of the gasket along with location of the filter in engine compartment...
Pretty normal that Honda denies responsibility on this as CRV designed and built by alliens...
I decided to buy..So,thanks for your feedback...
When I asked the salesman what it was about the FIRST oil change, he told me it could potentially happen with any oil change.
I will be sure to keep a fire extinguisher and a hammer under the pinic table. Maybe Honda will make this standard equipment in the future. It IS an awesome looking vehicle and fun to drive (manual).
JN
I'm having the oil changed for the second time next week in my wife's 2003 CRV and I have no worries at all!
That's what I am doing since Sabrina case.
Sorry, Sabrina, but for me your bad experience was a warning call... .
I know the non-Honda dealership in Pennsylvania (Miller's Tire), who does the test drive as a SOP (Standard Operation Procedure) - no matter what they do with a car.
Just take a shop rag and wipe off the mounting plate as everyone knows is standard procedure.
Make sure the filter is properly tightened and you will be fine.
Normally with other car I wouldn't be worried.
But, knowing CR-V tendency to burn, I do worry.
Having a test drive I am not only testing a job of changing a filter but also testing a NEW filter itself. Its might be defective or have a defective O-ring. Not all filters are created equal. :-)
NHTSB should NOT have cleared Honda of this problem because when asked why only 2003 & 2004 Honda CR-Vs were having this problem they responded "That's the part we're still investigating. Honestly, that's something we're still trying to understand." So all in all, Honda's response is that "we don't really know and we don't really care".
For those of you who completely trust Honda's response to this issue...may I interest you in some beachfront property overseeing the Pacific Ocean in Utah?
Chuck
How do you conclude that Honda doesn't care from the statement you quoted? It sounds to me like they were honest in admitting they don't know, and they're still investigating. If they didn't care they wouldn't be continuing the investigation.
JM2C
But in the end, it's Honda's reputation and CRV sales numbers that WILL suffer. Just like Toyota's oil sludge, Ford Explorer/Firestone tire, Ford Pinto, etc. these situations get ugly for the manufacturer.
"absolutely not a design defect"
They are still investigating and trying to understand...but they did go ahead an arrogantly decide that their design had nothing to do with it.
"We think with a little more communication and education with the dealers, the problem can be eliminated."
So simply telling mechanics to do a better job can eliminate the problem. Only if everything in life were really that simple, there would be no problems in the world.
What angers me is the sheer arrogance and finger pointing on the part of Honda. If they came out and said "we're investigating this matter further, and will issue a recall if deemed necessary" I'd be happy with that. But the case is now closed as of 7/1 (NHTSB is off teh case)...Honda will do nothing further until they are slapped with lawsuit most likely. Consumer Reports (a non-profit expert on cars) disagrees with Honda and it seems like the car mechanics in this forum agree that there is INDEED a design defect.
The lazy/careless/too much in a hurry oil changer doesn't bother wiping off the mounting plate and doesn't check for a double gasket!
Do the job right...it's not hard...and nothing will happen!
If all the fires were caused by an error during the oil change why is it not occuring on other Hondas? They sell many more Accords and Civics. How come no fires on '02 CR-Vs? I know these questions have been asked and no one has the answer (I bet Honda does).
There is obviously something unique to the CR-V that makes it prone to a fire when there is an error during the oil filter change. A design flaw seems to be the likely culprit.
People still buy Toyotas after the sludge issue. People still buy Explorers and Firestone tires after their issue. People will still buy Hondas. And the sad part is Honda knows it. Like any manufacturer they will cover themselves as best they can.
Incompetence, plain and simple.
No. I'm not buying what you're selling. What you say - that an oil change isn't hard to do - is true enough. But explain to me why Honda technicians aren't doing the job right only on 2003-2004 CR-Vs. When they have one of those vehicles, do they suddenly forget how to "do the job right?" Or, and far more likely, are they doing the same things they do for all the oil changes they do ... but for CR-Vs, the same thing could mean a fire?
By the name you're using on this forum, I take it you sell Hondas. It's understandable that you defend Honda - you have a vested interest in Honda's success. I have no interest in this other than the safety of myself and my family. That is my "pure and simple reality."
Frankly, for anyone thinking of buying a CR-V, I would say - DON'T!! They are (except for bursting into flames) great trucks, but until Honda actually fixes the problem, why would you take the risk?
It's called human error.
Maybe it is like the Explorer/Firestone fiasco. People didn't keep their tires inflated properly. Who should we blame? It couldn't be our fault! Let's sue a company for OUR incompetence.
Whatever.
And I don't want to hear a word about higher vehicle costs and insurance premiums. You made your bed, sleep in it.
WITCH HUNT!!!!!
Lemme see, let's say there are 300,000 2003/2004 CR-Vs on the road. Let's say each one has had an average of 3 oil changes. 900,000 oil changes and 27 caused fires.
It's not ALL Honda techs "all of the sudden forgetting" how to do their jobs, it's a few morons!
What is your opinion on Honda's Filters quality?
Even if you do everything properly: (check,clean,oil,tighten,double check again) would it be possible that oil gasket was bad, or get bad, or canister of the filter is a bit crooked or not holding the pressure? I did o/filter change 5 times on my EX-03. I have 27K on my odometer. I had NO problems, at no time o-ring stuck to the plate.
I tighten filter by hand 3/4 turn after o-ring touched the plate. I noticed that sometimes after turning filter 3/4 by hand the filter's (metal) canister actually touches the plate -you may not turn anymore. (O-ring is completely inside the groove). I do not think it is right. Normally (with other cars ) you still have a little room to turn ,say to full 1 turn (though it is not recommended - you may pinch the ring). I believe that O-ring in Honda's filters are too thin and sitting too low.
Nice speculation.
I think it's the flux capacitor. Darn thing gets pretty hot when I hit 87.5 MPH.
It's called responsibility and it's time the American work force takes some.
Yes, I agree with you on that. What you are saying is a common sense. But how would you explain the fact that only 9 of 27 fires had double gasket? After the fire it is really easy to find a double gasket upon examination especially when you know what you are looking for.
If I am not mistaken, most fires started at LOW speed - not at 90 mph.
Again, if double or pinched gasket to blame - why most fires started after 1st oil change? What is so special during 1st oil change? Factory paint or some special adhesive on the O-ring?
As Brooks Hadley would say, easy peasy, japanesey.
Going back to the original messages from Sabrina stating that her CRV burned up to the many messages since. I notice the affected CRV's only had first oil changes at dealers. Is this correct? If so, and even if the 03's and 04's had a design change its awfully strange do-it yourself-urs and local service centers can do it better.
Varmit,Juice, and others, it just goes to show what analysis and rational discussions can accomplish we had the problem pegged early on.
Best case scenario, my resale value on this car will tank.
thanks,
psyched
That would be my guess.
That first oil change was a major chore. I had to drive a screwdriver through the filter to get it off. Methinks it's on too tight.
I guess I just believe in a person doing their job correctly and "quick and sloppy" oil change jobs are no exception.
In today's world, thanks to the media and forums such as this one, word spreads quickly. The other places that change oil have got to be well aware of this and I'm sure many meetings have been held emphasising the need to slow down and be careful not only with CRV's but with ALL cars they work on.
"...your logic seems flawed. Something like "Doctor it hurts when I do this", "well don't do that"."
What if the patient is whacking themselves in the head with a brick?
"If all the fires were caused by an error during the oil change why is it not occuring on other Hondas? They sell many more Accords and Civics. How come no fires on '02 CR-Vs? I know these questions have been asked and no one has the answer (I bet Honda does)."
Blame first! Ask questions later! Guilty until proven innocent! In the absence of any proof what-so-ever, I hereby proclaim that the big corporation must be lying to everyone!
"C'mon Craig, I usually respect your stance on issues - but quick and sloppy oil change jobs are industry standard! That's what Jiffy Lube is all about!"
Yes, and that's all the more reason to blame Honda rather than make them accountable.
Folks, a poorly done oil change is an abusive action. If you abuse any car, it will have negative consequences. Think of the precedent we'd set if we blamed Honda for the mistakes of mechanics. The dealer puts engine oil in the rear diff... blame Honda. The local garage installs the brakes on backwards... blame Honda. Your cousin Larry gets the tension wrong on your timing chain... blame Honda.
Just because mistakes with oil changes are common, does not make them any less reprehensible. We expect the grease monkeys to be incompetent. So, they are off the hook. Does that really pass for common sense nowadays?
I haven't heard anything from Honda supporters in this (I'm discounting anything isellhondas has to say, since he's hardly impartial in this) that answers my questions. If it is just technicians doing something wrong, why is it only showing up on 2003 and 2004 CR-Vs and only for the first (or second?) oil change? Admit it - it doesn't make sense.
Heck, maybe we should never buy a new set of tires again! The installer just might leave a wheel loose and it might fall off!
* Happened to me as a matter of fact!
If the issue is caused by human error, why is it only happening on '03 and'04 CR-Vs?
I can accept that all the facts aren't in, etc. but if it was as simple as a tech making an error why is it not happening to other Honda vehicles? I don't see fires reported for the Accord or Element. Or the Civic. Or the Odyssey. Or the Pilot.
It's happening to the CR-V because there is something different when compared to the other models. Is it a design flaw? Well when it causes the vehicle to catch on fire, I would have to say it is.
ANY car can have a oil leakage related fire. On some cars it may be more likely because of the proximity of the oil filter to the exhaust.
A LOT of cars have the exhaust close to the filters.
It is NOT a design flaw whne a careless technician fails to remove the old gasket and does not wipe off the mounting plate.
Craig...who is taking his wife's 2003 in today for it's second oil change. I have not the slightest worry!
We take our cars for granted...we don't want our cars blowing up after oil changes. That's not something that we should really be worrying about. The fact is that 2003 & 2004 Honda CR-Vs are having a problem with catching on fire and breaking down following an oil change...more than other typical cars on the road. This is not a problem that should be occuring with NEWER cars.
Honda's response of "We're not sure why but it's not our fault" is not an acceptable response in my opinion. Remember that the 27 reported fires is as of February. I'm expecting that number to be around 35 by now. Accords and Civics each outsell CR-Vs by at least a 2-1 ratio, but we don't hear about them catching on fire.
If indeed this serious problem is caused by dumb oil technicians by random chance...shouldn't we expect around 54 fires or more each from Civic and Accord? And even more than that from Ford 150 pick-up trucks. With all the cars on the road these days...we should be seeing hundreds of new cars lighting up after their first oil changes. But they are not...it's occuring with CR-Vs far more often than other models.
35 out of 200,000 is not a high percentage...but neither is 900 people dying in Iraq out 300 million residing is the US isn't a lot either. If we all begin the accept the fact that anything less than 1% is not a serious issue, then we have a problem in this country far greater than just Honda CR-Vs lighting on fire.