Honda CR-V Maintenance and Repair

varmint

1. Many cars have caught fire because of pinched gaskets or double gaskets. This problem is not unique to CR-Vs. In fact, Craig suggested this as a possibility when we first heard about Sabrina's fire. That was long before the Honda and the NHTSA published their report after the investigation.

Think about it. Why would he suggest that the doubled gaskets might be the problem if it had never happened to another car before?

2. If Honda changes the gaskets, there is still the possibility of having the stacked gasket problem. You just have two different gaskets stacked on top of each other.

3. I'm not defending Honda. I'm defending (not so) common sense. You don't have any facts to support the accusations you have made. We do not have enough information to be jumping to conclusions. Here in the USA we do not pronounce people guilty until proven innocent.

Now, I'm perfectly willing to agree that we have a problem here. The rate of CR-V fires appears to be higher than "normal". But I do not claim to understand the nature of the problem.

We know that the majority of these fires have been the result of stacked and pinched gaskets. That is the only cause we have seen consistently. That by itself is not a design flaw. As posted above, it can happen to any car. The responsibility of checking for a stacked gasket belongs to the Technician.

So, pardon me if I think that is the first thing that Honda should address.

And before anyone else jumps on me for that. I also believe that Honda (and the NHTSA) should continue to investigate the issue. Each fire and oil leak needs to be documented and studied. The more they know about it, the better off they are with finding a real solution with a chance of fixing the problem. I think it would be worse if they just changed the O-ring and told everyone "problem fixed" without being absolutely certain.

varmint

Sabrina, I read that last one before you deleted it. Did you misread my last post?

gary_william

OK, gang, I have already had the rear rotors replaced on my '03 EX, and now at 26k miles, the front rotors are to be replaced, too! I spoke to the technician on the phone and he says that if I do not follow the service guide and have the brakes serviced every 15k miles, then the brake dust could accumulate and stop the pads from fully retracting, leading them to drag on the rotors and eventually wear out, damaging the rotors. I got the new rear ones covered under warranty, and the front ones will be, too, but I have to pay for the front pads (a consumable) and the labor to have them put on. Seems strange that the brake system is THAT particular to servicing, but after this I shall not fail to have the service done, especially since I will have to pay for the next set of rotors. Oh, and $50 for new pads, plus labor to put them on! Ouchie. Still, $100 for new pads and rotors... gotta think long term here. Thoughts?

autosaurus

The bottom line is the CRV can catch fire if the tech does a poor job on the oil change..that is pretty severe for something as routine as an oil change. Its a design flaw with the CRV, no doubt about it, and I have not seen many other cars catching fire from leaking oil. I would love to see stats on that compared to a CRV.

The only great thing about this car is it's high resale value - makes it easy to trade in!. BTW, do Pilots have this problem?

sabrina9

I went back and reread your comments and realized I had.

kathgip

Thanks for all your input. You all are great and very helpful. I have learned a lot just by reading all the posts about all sorts of things.

varmint

Autosaurus - Yes, it is possible with other cars. As mentioned above, that is how Craig knew it might be the cause long before the NHTSA and Honda released their findings.

Fires are not uncommon, folks. A quick google search came up with 44 NHTSA reports of fires in GM's 3.8L engines. In addition to those reported to the NHTSA there have been 565 complaints to GM. There have been 35 reports of fires with the Toyota Camry and another 3 for the Altima.

Yes, a fire is a severe result for something as routine as changing your oil. So is hitting a pedestrian because you decided to change the radio station at the wrong moment. Do you know how many accidents are caused by minor distractions like coffee, cell phones, car stereos, and children in car seats? Why don't we outlaw all of those dangerous things, as well?

I'm sorry, but the severity of an issue has nothing to do with where the fault lies.

Sabrina - No problem. It seemed like an honest mistake.

julia

I just read this complaint regards to engine fire that sounds interesting from view of technician (?) from Honda dealer. See below:

Make : HONDA Model : CR-V Year : 2004
Crash : Yes Fire : Yes Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10083122 Date of Failure: July 10, 2004
Component: SUSPENSION:FRONT
Summary:
 RECENLY WHILE ON VACATION I PICKED UP A NEWS PAPER THE UNION TIMES SATURDAY JULY 10 2004. THE ARTICLE WAS IN THE B SECTION ABOUT A HONDA CRV CATCHING FIRE AFTER ITS FIRST OIL CHANGE. THE BLAME WAS PLACED ON THE DEALER?*AK HERES THE PROBLEM. HONDA RECENTLY SWITCHED TO 0W-20W OIL FOR THE 2003 AND 2004 HONDA`S. NOT MORE THAN THE VICOSITY OF COOKING OIL. WE ALL KNOW WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN COOKING OIL IS HOT? NOW HERE THE GOOD PART. WHEN THE OIL IS CHNAGE IN THE NEW BODY HONDA CRV THE OIL DRAINS DOWN ACROSS THE RIGHT SIDE SUB FRAME AND BEING THIS OIL VISCOSITY IS VERY ADHESIVE IT RUN DIRECTLY INTO THE RETANGLE HOLE ON THE SIDE OF THE FRAME. THEN WHEN THE VEHICLE LEAVES THE DEALER THE AIR TRAVELING UNDER THE VEHICLE CREATE A SPRAY NOZZLE DIRECTLY AT THE EXHAUST. IF THE PERSON HAS JUST COME IN FROM A LONG DRIVE THE EXHAUST WILL NEVER COOL DOWN ENOUGH BECAUSE OF HONDA REQUIRMENT FOR THE DEALERSHIP TO HAVE HONDA`S NEW "EXPRESS CHANGE " IN PLACE. IT LEAVES THE DEALERSHIP ALREADY HOT AND THE FIRE OCCURS. YOU MAY HAVE GUESSED YES I WORK FOR A DEALERSHIP. WE NOW USE A RUBBER STOPPER TO PLUG THE FRAME AND FILL IN THAT TROUBLESOME RECTANCLE HOLE WITH SILICONE PREVENTING OIL FROM ENTERING THE FRAME. WE KEEP WATER IN REFILLABLE SPAYERS TO EXTINGUSH FLAME BURST IF THEY OCCUR WHILE CHANGING OIL

theracoon

WE KEEP WATER IN REFILLABLE SPAYERS TO EXTINGUSH FLAME BURST IF THEY OCCUR WHILE CHANGING OIL

There's a scary thought! Spraying water on an oil fire can spread the fire. You need chemical or CO2 extinguishers for oil fires.

kyfdx

How about: "I have no idea what I'm talking about"

kizhe

I am NOT a Honda tech, but I found strange that:
1. The oil Honda uses/recommends is 5W-20 not
   0W-20W (?).
2. I would not unplug the oil drain and unscrew
   oil filter at the same time - too much of the
   hot oil - a mess. I would wait
   until most oil would drain from the bottom
   hole and THEN unscrew the filter - in 30 min
   or so (personally I drain oil in the evening
   and change the filter next morning).
3. I would "protect" everything underneath oil
   filter with rugs and quickly unscrew the
   filter - there will be NO SPILLS.
Again, I am not a professional tech but I figured out the best way to change oil in my V and ALWAYS do it myself.
BTW, last weekend I made my 6-th oil change in my CR-V EX 03. I used the "old"(small) I5400-PLM-A02 oil filter.
According to some other specifics of the post I had an impression that "The tech" does not know what he is doing :-).

homerdan

My 2003 CR-V only has 22,000 miles. The transmission was replaced last week. The problem seems to be similar to the postings regarding the Odyssey transmissions - 2nd gear issues.
Description of the problem: as the transmission downshifted from 2nd to 1st, there was a "jerk". A jerk could also be felt, but not as obvious, when the tranny shifted from 3rd to 2nd.
The new tranny seems fine - there is no more "jerk" from 2nd to 1st. However, I still feel an un-smooth shift from 3rd to 2nd.
Anybody else had any problems with their CR-V transmission?

dtruong8

i haven't posted on edmunds for quite a while now...

but regarding the transmissions on the cr-v's, i had no troubles at all on mine (knock on wood), a 2002 with almost 50k on it. shifts are buttery smooth, comparable with my friend's MB E320.

btw, on my trip to vegas recently, i ran into quite a couple of issues. One, in order to keep up with 80+ mph traffic up the mountains, i had to drop into 3rd gear. I was running well into the zone where the i vtec kicks in (5-6k rpm). So if i had done this intermittently for about 5-10 min each time, would i have done any damage to the engine? i know that the honda engines are designed for high rpm but im just worried that extended periods like that might cause a problem.

Another thing, while going up a parking structure (the claustophobic circus circus in particular), the engine rpm seemed to drop to 500 and it started to shake and stutter but didnt stall. This happened once and everyone in the car felt it. I was wondering if this was due to the incline of the road or is this an irregular occurance?

Just a side note, i took the cr-v up to 100 mph for a couple mins. :P And i saw 3 test cars that i couldnt figure out (more info on the cr-v discussion)

kyfdx

You won't hurt your engine at anything under redline... Now, if you run up next to the redline for hours at a time....maybe.. but, intermittently running up there for 5-10 minutes at a time? No problem.

regards,
kyfdx

dtruong8

woah a post already...well thanks for ur opinion (i could sleep better knowing that my engine wont fall apart in the future)

but now for the pesky stalling issue...

homerdan

Here's an update -
I was driving down the street, came to a stop sign. Pressed on the brakes. There was a loud "clunk". The engine malfunction light came on. Thought to myself "oh crap" . Started to accelerate and notice the tranny was not shifting. The "new" transmission is now stuck in first gear!! What are the chances of ONE person getting TWO bad transmissions!!?? If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have none at all.

Now I've got to fight with the dealer and/or Honda about providing me with a loaner car. I tried it last time, but the dealer said "we don't have loaner cars". I called Honda and they said "you can rent a car and submit the charges to Honda for reimbursement consideration". Consideration??? What the heck does that mean?? Shouldn't you tell me yes or no BEFORE I spend $$$ on a rental??

Any suggestions on how I should handle this loaner car issue (without having to act like an a-hole)?

inkie

Julia,
     For information only, The OW-20 oil is a synthetic blend that some people use instead of regular oil {in this case 5W-20 which is simular in viscosity.}. Its about 5.75 a quart compared to 1.49 for regular 5W-20.Some people say the synthetic blends lasts longer and gives better performance. So your dealer must be charging a premium for the oil change. As far as properties, it is simular in ignition and is just as adhesive as regular oil. So it will burn and flow the same.
      
     I have an '02 and am curious as to where you say the tech. plugs up the frame. I realize if you don't cover the subframe and CV boot oil will drip on to the CVboot and frame and drip down toward the cat. Where does the stopper go and isn't the opening in the hollow frame too large to fill up with silicone?

autosaurus

varmint - bottom line, I cant take my car in for an oil change without fear of it catching fire.. forget radios,cell phones, hitting people etc..etc..those are in my control and have nothing to do with fires in a CRV..

There's no arguing the point, its a design defect.Honda's fault and a good reason to NOT buy a CRV!. If I knew mine had a good chance of catching fire every time I had the oil changed I definitely would not have bought it.
Can you imagine the sales person saying " oh and one more thing, the car has a good chance of catching fire after an oil change".. how many would Honda sell then!!!

mikefm58

<< There's no arguing the point, its a design defect. Honda's fault and a good reason to NOT buy a CRV >>

I agree, but unfortunately there are a fair number of people who are blaming the technician. Granted, it is his fault for not doing the job correctly. But I'm sure everyone here will agree that not everyone does their job perfect each and every time. I too would be scared as all heck everytime I had my oil changed, wondering if the technician did it right. 'Cuz if he didn't, my vehicle is toast.

edunnett

I heard that ceramic brake pads don't leave dust. Might be worth an upgrade in your pads?
elissa

julia

Hi, Inkie
Thanks for your post. It shows that you do know more on oil than other Honda defecnder on this post.

The Technician is not my dealer. My car is only a couple weeks old which is far away from 1st oil change.

My post is one of complaint case from the NTHSA, i.e. National Traffic Highway Safety Adminstration, United States Depatrtment of Transportation, web page. It is located at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov. if you search under 2004 Honda CR-V, you find find many complaint cases including the one I posted. I thought it is interesting as many peoples just blame technicians for the fire.

julia

Just saw the recall information for 2004 CR-V from NTHSA. Does anyone done or received any information from your dealer/Honda regards to this recall? It is another safety issue on this CR-V. When you count on safety air bag, it may actually increase your risk of injury.

See below:
Make : HONDA Model : CR-V Year : 2004
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V255000 Recall Date : JUN 02, 2004
Component: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 130617
Summary: ON CERTAIN SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES, THE WIRE HARNESS OF THE DRIVER'S FRONT AIR BAG WAS INCORRECTLY WIRED.
Consequence: IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH, THE AIR BAG INFLATION RATE WOULD BE INCORRECT, WHICH COULD INCREASE THE RISK OF INJURY TO THE DRIVER.
Remedy: DEALERS WILL REPAIR THE WIRING. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN ON JULY 6, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009.
Notes: HONDA RECALL NO. P34. CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION&#146;S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).

julia

There's no arguing the point, its a design defect. Honda&#146;s fault and a good reason to NOT buy a CRV!.

I agree. Read the cases at NTHSA web pages, it really did not give you the scary and worry for the oil change. Some engine fire started right away. Some happened two months later. Those folks were lucky if the engine fire happened on highway/street in the city. What happen if you are driving CR-V along those two-lane highway (one lane for each way) in mountain area in the dark, then the engine got fire. You could not even possible call 911 as some of those area your cell phone cannot get any signal. Then you stuck in either way is in dangerous condition to get hit by cars - walk on highway or stay there (or in some case, you may be freeze to death. As you may leave all thing behind you when jump out of car for the fire).

I suggest anyone who intends to buy CR-V may read the complaint cases regards the engine fire on NTHSA web page, then decide whether want to buy it. Unfortunately, I did not know that web page before I bought. Otherwise, I would not buy it.

Honda/Dealership owns the responsibility did not inform consumer the fact and extend of possible engine fire after oil change.

Why not Honda Pilot? Why not any other maker has this kind of fire cases like CR-V? For those who keep deny its CR-V design defect and just blame on technician should be shamed.

julia

My typo: it really did not give you the scary and worry for the oil change.

It should be: it really did give you the scary and worry for the oil change.

bshel

Julia, no one should feel shamed by stating what the results of the investigation have brought about so far. The investigation has not put blame on Honda at this point and it is a fact. They have stated that it is technician error from not checking (double gaskets, etc etc) and that is where it stands now. It may change in the future.

It is unfortunate that you have had fire in your new V. Many things can happen to cause harm to people in this world, and you can imagine freezing to death because of the fire, etc. It isn't helpful to think of them constantly for your health. If most people read the complaint cases at NTHSA, they wouldn't buy many of the cars they do.

taykinitezy

This was also a recall on our '03. We got the recall notice in the mail a couple of months ago. It took less than 10 minutes at the dealer to correct........

isellhondas

Julia had a fire. She's just reacting to the news she just learned.

She has been complaining about her CRV since she bought it. In my not so humble opinion, she should probably just sell it and move on.

I hope that she reads every negative thing she can find, however, about whatever she replaces it with. There will always be unhappy owners on evey make and model.

For the umpteenth time...if the person changing the oil simply pays attention there will be no danger of a fire!

bshel

isell - do you have the numbers on how many 2002, 2003, 2004 CR-V's were sold thus far? - U.S. only.

Just curious.

andrelaplume

you appear to be confident the fire issue is due to the techs. Once and for all, Can you describe why we only appear to see the fires on the CRVs and specifically only certain years.

kizhe

I would recommend people, who are changing oil in dealerships, to ask mechanic to bring and to SHOW the OLD oil filter and examine the gasket. At least 5K double gasket problem could be solved by doing this.
 Making a test drive and checking for oil leaks would be nice too. I know in PA at least one honest conscientious dealer, who always doing test drive as SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) - and it does not matter what he did with the car. (Miller's Tire).
I do not believe in the "latest theory" - about oil residue on the frame or "cross member" starting the fire. It's laughable IMO. According to this theory fire should start immediately after leaving the dealer :-). ???

julia

I hope that she reads every negative thing she can find, however, about whatever she replaces it with. There will always be unhappy owners on every make and model.

isellhondas
If people read message from this board, they should know why I am unhappy about CR-V. First, the CR-V pulls to the right. Then the exchanged one got some other issues. I had to go to dealer for two times service since I bought a couple weeks ago. I expect to happy and enjoy the summer week with my new CR-V. Only this trouble car wasted my weekend and weekday times to have to waits hours in dealer's for service on brand new car. IT IS CR-V MAKES ME NOT HAPPY. I am very happy with my old Toyota car. Would you be happy if you buy a nice suit to wear to the party, then you found defects/dirty that resulted in have to send it to dry clean first and miss the party? You can still return the suit, but not return the car.

I was also not happy as I was not informed with the risk/possibility of engine fire after oil change when I bought the car. It just like smoke may cause cancer. But now very smoker gets cancer. At least people got warn before they smoke. Since only CR-V has risk of engine fire after oil change as reported (no matter the percentage), consumer should be informed the risk of the engine fire before they buy the car. I do think Honda and its dealer own the obligation.

julia

Thanks for your post.

kizhe

Julia, you are VERY unlucky person. I certainly sorry for you, but I never heard of a case, when Honda owner had had so many problems with two cars (OLD and NEW) a the same time. Statistically it's a very rare case (like winning a lottery and being strike by lightning at the same time). We all know, that lawyers love cases like that - they always trying to present atypical, rare cases like typical (American news media - too).
Since I bought my CR-V in May 03, I had NO PROBLEMS whatsoever.
I am at 31K now and I made 6 oil/filter changes. Maybe I am lucky too :-).

kizhe

It would be interesting to ask a mechanic at your Honda Dealership, how often he finds that filter gasket sticks to the plate (especially servicing 5K CR-V) ?
Is it ones a day, a month or never ?

inkie

Read the latest crv discussion messages it explains the oil fire theory further.

kizhe

Sorry, maybe, I put it not very clear.
What I meant was: "IF THAT theory was true, fires(or smoke) should have been started soon after leaving the dealership after oil/f change... " - and they were not.

andrelaplume

the crossmember theory....my point is I am tired of reading posts blaming the techs. If they are at fault it is because there is something funky about certain year model CRVs. This is NOT a common problem among other makes or even other Honda's. To say so appears to be rediculous. That is not to say a fire can never occur on another model, just that they seam more prone on certain year CRVs. My guess is that this is not really impacting overall sales....YET. If so I'd bet the salesman, in addition to begging the techs to very careful would be be berrating Honda...then again, perhaps they are.

varmint

"the crossmember theory....my point is I am tired of reading posts blaming the techs. If they are at fault it is because there is something funky about certain year model CRVs."

the crossmember theory....my point is I am tired of reading posts blaming a mystery defect. If a defect is at fault, it appears that the techs are in a position to prevent it from leading to a leak and fire.

No one has been able to explain why we have no reports of leaks in 2002 models. No one has been able to explain why this appears to be a problem with only the first oil change. No one has been able to explain why this hasn't happened to the Element.

We can't explain much of anything.

So (everybody) let's not start any fires here in these threads until we have more solid information and a little less hysteria.

isellhondas

I was about to respond to andreplume but you beat me to the punch.

Thanks. I'm getting tired of the "sky is falling"
hysteria as well.

stevedebi

"Thanks. I'm getting tired of the "sky is falling"
hysteria as well."

Well, maybe the "oil is falling" hysteria. Still, I had to think about it as I picked up my 2003 CR-V from the dealer after it's 3rd oil change. No smoke so far... but then my dealer is very good.

varmint

Well, I think that people have every right to be concerned about this problem. A little hysteria is only natural. It's the conspiracy theories and senseless debate (with no facts in sight) that are starting to drive me nutty.

Okay, I've been nutty for years, now. But you get the point.

varmint

"do you have the numbers on how many 2002, 2003, 2004 CR-V's were sold thus far? - U.S. only."

Approximately 375,000 units since November 2001.

autosaurus

I was wondering why the Elements and other Honda's dont have this problem also. Someone did mention that the oil filter was redesigned for the 2003 model and thats why the 2002's dont seem affected? not sure

As for Julia, she has every right to voice her opinions on here..I looked on this site before buying my 2004 CRV, and read road tests. If the Road Tests had been honest and talked to the poor seating positions, rattling and pulling to the right, I would have avoided the car..I even drove 3 of them and one belonged to a friend..her car rattled like crazy but she said, it didnt, it was just stuff in the back of the car..well, it still does rattle! and now that I notice it more, it pulls to the right..

The point of this forum is to discuss problems with the CRV..not defend them..someone could be saved a $23,000 headache if the people on this forum , like Julia, continue to be honest..

If the community leader and the honda salesman take offense to the truth about the CRV..please visit a different forum, but dont insult anyone for saying whats REALLY going on with their CRV..

In my opinion, they're nice cars for the money, some people have problems with them, and some dont.. but they are not the GREAT car's publications make them out to be!

CRV Buyer beware!

isellhondas

I sure didn't mean to if I did.

It's just that things tend to get amplified in these forums.

Our 2003 CRV doesn't pull or rattle. We love the car as do most owners.

I've ridden in, probably a hundred or more CRVS and I haven't heard one comment about pulling to the right or rattles. I'm being totally honest.

But, are they flawless? Of course not!

I can't speak for our commnity leader but I certainly don't take "offense" to any of these comments. I do think there needs to be a balance to reduce what can become a dogpile effect.

varmint

"As for Julia, she has every right to voice her opinions on here."

No one has suggested otherwise. Please do not put words in my mouth.

"The point of this forum is to discuss problems with the CRV..not defend them."

Yes, this is where you should discuss problems. That has never been disputed, either. But it's also nice to have discussions regarding solutions in this forum. Furthermore, it would be nice if the discussions were grounded with some FACT.

So, please pardon me if that bothers anyone here.

mackie

Hey All,

I've been reading this forum for a while and finally joined today. Just wondering if anyone seems to have an inordinate anount of brake dust on their front rims. My old '89 Accord had the same problem, but my '99 Galant didn't. I'm wondering if this is just a Honda thing...??

Thanks,
Mackie

theracoon

My '99 CR-V EX does not, and I only wash it once or twice during the summer, and whenever the temps get above freezing in winter.

autosaurus

if you want "fact" take a look at a few charred CRV'S!!!

varmint

Mackie - Brake dust is almost always a problem with FWD cars, though some rims are more resistant to letting it stick than others. And softer brake pads will also generate more dust than others.

That said, I've never noticed a big problem with the new CR-Vs. If you find that more dust is sticking than you like, give the wheels a good cleaning and then wax them whenever you wash the car.

Like Racoon, I have not had a problem with my 1999 CR-V EX. But mine is faster than his and the dust may just be blowing off.

drive62

I too had an '89 Accord (loved that car) and after 13 years the wheel covers were stained from the brake dust. Like varmint said, it is a lot better now.