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Comments
All cars ***will*** "drift" to the right eventually if you take your hands off the wheel. What may be bothering you as a "pull" may not bother someone else.
But, I don't know...like I said before, I've NEVER noticed this and I have driven a LOT of CRVS.
I also have never heard anyone say they all pull to the right.
When I first took delivery of my CRV it would drift a full lane to the right within a matter of a second or two. I drove the car a few hundred miles during Christmas vacation and would end up with a sore arm from holding the car on the road (no joke).
Your company was able to fix this (though I had to go to two dealerships ... my original dealership insisted that even this was "normal"). They fixed it by adjusting the camber on the tires.
However, the car still pulls substantially on acceleration. The harder the acceleration, the more pronounced the pull (as reported by others). Under moderately hard acceleration (pressing the accelerator 1/2 way to the floor ... the way you would if you want to get ahead of the guy next to you off a stop light) the car will end up in the next lane within 150-200 feet.
I agree with you ... what bothers me may not bother someone else. So I'll leave it to prospective CRV buyers to draw their own conclusions based on my (and other people's) descriptions.
Sorry...I don't buy that!
In response to isellhondas, you alredy posted on this Board that you have no idea how '05 Honda CRVs 2wd react when driving. You're bald assumption that they don't is unfounded. Steve
My problem with pttr began from Day 1. There was no test drive of an '05 model before purchase because the vehicle was ordered before any '05s had arrived at the dealership. After notifying the dealer that the '05 CRV pttr on the way home. We were informed to drive it for a while to see if the problem persisted. It has. You better make VERY sure there is no PTTR problem before you leave the lot as I am getting the same response from the dealer and manufacturer as you see in the posts by isellhondas. Birds of a feather... Steve
In response to: Did anyone find a solution to this problem? I also have safety concerns!
The solution is filing a complaint re: the annoying/dangerous problem with NHSTA and beginning the Lemon Law process in your state. If you "google" "lemon law" and your state name, you should come up with the rules to lemon law arbitration. FYI, my experience and all those other persons that continue to suffer from PTTR have encountered Honda reps that state since all of the '05 CRVs are faulty, we have no intention of addressing the problem. Good Luck! Steve
In response to 'Is it only noticeable on highway driving?'
No, in my case, the pttr occurs anytime that the gas pedal is depressed. The faster (or further down) the gas pedal is depressed, the more pronounced the pttr problem. From what I have read on this forum, the problem seems to be more prevelant on the 2wd LX models. I have also read other's posts that state they could not detect any pttr at all. So, it appears that there are '05 CRVs out there that vary from little or no pttr to extreme pttr (or as the poster 'isellhondas' calls it "drift") If you do buy a new CRV, make absolutely sure that there is no pttr problem, because all posters here have stated that Honda either denies there is a problem or that Honda states it is normal for the CRV to do this. For further verification of Honda's attitude toward the multiple posts on this site, go back and look at 'isellhondas' responses to all those suffering from pttr. If you happen to purchase a Honda with the pttr problem, you can expect that the Honda dealer and Honda manufacturer will respond the same way as 'isellhondas.' Good Luck! Steve
It's called torque steering. It has nothing to do with wheel alignment. It does not get worse or better. It is always the same and it makes itself known only during acceleration. Accelerate harder and it will tug harder. The force of the tug is directly proportional to the rate of acceleration. This is not the same as a pull caused by worn suspension components or misaligned wheels.
It is a very well-known effect caused by the unequal length drive axles on ALL front-drive vehicles from every manufacturer. Longer drive axles generate greater torque at the wheel than shorter axles. Period. You can change this only if you care to rewrite the laws of physics.
This is not a Honda thing. It is not a defect. If you were paying attention when you test drove your vehicle you would have felt exactly what you are feeling now. This did not change while you weren't looking.
You want to feel some REAL torque steering? Put your right foot completely into a twenty-four valve Taurus sedan on dry pavement. You'll feel some serious torque steering. As soon as the acceleration winds down however, you can relax your grip on the wheel.
If you don't like torque steering buy a rear-wheel drive vehicle. My Volvo 740 turbo wagon accelerates with some serious thrust. Straight as an arrow.
Please stop feeling like Honda or any other carmaker is trying to sell you damaged goods. They simply are not.
Now, that being said, if you have to wrestle with the steering wheel to go straight, even with your foot completely off the throttle, then you DO have a problem and need to figure it out. In this case you could well have an alignment problem or suspension damage. (But the damage would be obvious.)
I am in no way related to the Honda company. I do not now nor have I ever worked for Honda. I have however been in aviation and automotive maintenance for decades. I can tell you without hesitation that Honda builds some of the very best machinery in the world. Take a quick look at the resale value of Honda vehicles. That should tell you something about their quality and durability.
I promise I won't mention torque steering again.
The sky isn't falling.
Thanks for your info on torque. I don't doubt that torque plays a role in the power provided to make the car move and possible how the vehicle steers. That being the case, what I don't understand is why there is such a difference in the various years of Honda CRVs. Did Honda decide to increase the pttr causing torque dramatically in the '05 CRVs? I have a friend that has a '99 CRV and another friend that had an '01 CRV and currently has an '04 CRV that has no pttr at all. I have driven all 3 in the past. No pttr. I let my friend that has owned the 2 CRVs drive my '05 CRV and after just a short distance, he concluded that there is a major pttr 'problem.' This gentleman that has owned 2 CRVs and currently owns the '04 also valet parks five days a week. He confirmed that my '05 CRV definitely suffers from dramatic pttr. Coincidentally, one of the technicians at the Honda dealer stated on the repair invoice "pulls right" after test driving the vehicle.
On another note, I owned an '01 Toyota Rav4. It was a front wheel drive. It did not pull to the right (or left) at all upon acceleration. I put 40K miles on the RAV4 without a problem.
When I test drove the '04 CRV(since there were no '05s available at the time I purchased by '05 CRV) it did not pull to the right at all. When I first drove the '05 CRV, I immediately detected a major difference from the thousands of vehicles I have driven in the course of my life. (As I mentioned in a previous post, I valet parked for over 10 years.) All front wheel drive vehicles that I have driven did not pull to the right. If I am supposed to believe that a front wheel drive (FWD) vehicle traveling on the freeway is supposed to change lanes in less than 2 seconds when the driver's hands are off the wheel, I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this point.
I invite all other persons that have ever driven front wheel drive vehicles to jump in on this issue and let us know if everyone that has a front wheel drive vehicle experiences their vehicle pull to the right when they accelerate their vehicle on a flat straight away. Steve
Is this imaginary problem of pttr only on the Honda CRV Board or is it on all of the other vehicle Boards where front wheel drive vehicles are discussed? I used the 'google' search engine for pttr. The only thing that kept coming up were forums that talked about Honda. Please correct me if I am wrong about this. Steve
The new CRV seems to exhibit this condition to a much greater extent than any other FWD vehicle I've ever driven. My father owns a 24v Taurus SEL. To get it to torque steer you have to mash the accelerator all the way to the floor. Same goes with my Del Sol VTEC (a 2200 pound car that has as much power as my 3400 pound CRV). On the other hand, my CRV does it under virtually any acceleration.
The other thing that irritates me (and I assume many othes) is that Honda seems to change stories whenever it suits them.
Half the time they deny that it's a problem. Folks like isellhondas (and others) claim "hey, I've never felt a Honda car do this ... you must be imagining things".
Half the time they claim that it's normal and that all FWD cars do it: "No you can't have your money back, or exchange the car you bought, all cars do this, get used to it".
So which is it? If all CRVs torque steer people should be aware of that before they buy.
If only some CRVs torque steer (perhaps the axles are mounted wrong or something else is going on). Then Honda needs to acknowledge this and either figure out how to fix it, or exchange these vehicles for non-defective ones:
Can't have it both ways.
- Based on some of the descriptions on this message board, SOME folks genuinely seem to have a PTTR problem that is not related to torque steer.
- Some folks are most likely reading these messages, getting into their CRV's feeling the effects of some torque steer, crown in the road, improperly inflated tires, and think that their CRV has PTTR problems and is defective.
Back in November when I was looking at CRV's I drove several of them (AWD), and definitely did not notice any PTTR problems (and I am pretty anal about these things when I am about to spend 22-26K on a new car!) Two of my good friends have 05 CRV's and neither have this PTTR problem.
Like I said, I do not doubt that there is a legitimate PTTR problem for some of the owners who have posted, and most of you have stated that Honda went out of their way to help resolve the issue (alignment, new tires, replacing other parts, etc). I do not own a Honda, but I think that this may be getting blown a little out of proportion.
It just seems that you are trying to paint this is a MAJOR problem that affects huge numbers of CRVS.
I realize misery loves company but this just isn't the case...sorry.
Since you already posted that you do not know how FWD '05 Honda CRVs drive because they are not 'in your neck of the woods,' how can you continue to make any valid comments how these particular vehicles drive?
If you continue to believe that pttr is not the case with a significant number of '05 FWD CRVs, you need to go back and read this message board. Sorry to upset any sales that you may lose, but the public is entitled to know the truth before making a 20K plus investment. Denying the problem exists will only hurt Honda further in the long run. Honda typically makes a superb product. When, for a change, they make a sub par product, fault needs to be acknowledged where the fault lies. Additionally, the fault must be addressed and reconciled to the public's satisfaction. If it is not, the bad taste in the customer's mouth remains and is remembered for a long time. My Request for Arbitration under the Lemon Law goes out today. Win or lose, I will keep this Board up to date as the saga unfolds. Steve
WHOOOO! When the VTEC kicks in, what a hoot! BTW I passed a lumbering V8 Toyota Tundra who was ahead of me on the on ramp. Maybe he was trying to save gas or something.
This is a foul smell, like something is burning. As you can see I put plenty of miles on my CR-V. All service has been done at the dealer.
Anyone else have any new thoughts or anything to add?
I don't think I said that. 2WD CRVS are very poor sellers in my neck of the woods. We do sell one once in awhile and I've driven my fair share of them and didn't feel a pull.
I agree, although I think you are in the minority, people should simply drive the CRV they pan to buy.
With respect to pttr in 2wd CRVs, You wrote: "Someone mentioned this is more of a problem on the 2WD models? In my neck of the woods these don't sell very well...I've probably sold maybe three since 1997. IF THESE DO HAVE A PROBLEM I WOULDN'T KNOW SINCE I CAN'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I WAS IN ONE." Emphasis added.
This is the only reason why I questioned why you continued to post comments on how these particular CRV models handle with respect to pttr problems when you previously stated you wouldn't know if they had a problem since you can't remember the last time you were in one. Steve
Thanks.
I did ask the guys in service and they knew nothing about this "problem" you talk about.
ALL cars can have an alignment problem that will cause a pull. This is why we have alignment racks and people who can use them. This isn't the widespread problem you seem to want to make this into.
I'm glad to hear that you were able to find and drive one 2WD CRV that did not have the problem. Unfortunately, we have not all been that lucky.
Besides driving my '05 CRV with the pttr (pull to the right) problem, I was able to test drive only one other '05 2WD CRV. The CRV was driven with a regional Honda Manufacturer technician. The regional Honda Manufacturer technician was sent in specially as Honda's last chance to address the problem before legal action. Unfortunately, the second new '05 Honda CRV also had major pttr. Although, as you might expect, at first the technician denied any pttr problem with the vehicle stating that "under 30, it's supposed to do that." However, after the low speed test, the vehicle was taken on the freeway. When the Honda technician saw how the vehicle changes lanes (to the right) within 2 seconds unless constant pressure by the driver was placed on the steering wheel (to the left), he immediately insisted on being taken back to the dealership and would not continue with any dialogue. We haven't heard from Honda since. That was two weeks ago. Phone calls to the Honda Manufacturer requesting dialogue have gone unanswered.
According to everyone on this Board that brought their CRV with pttr to their dealer, their Honda dealers basically echoed the same position as you. e.g. 'they know nothing about the problem.' That is the most disconcerting part about this pttr problem. Until Honda admits/realizes the problem exists, (whether it be on 1 vehicle or 100,000 vehicles) they will not begin to adequately address the problem. I can only hope the Honda Manufacturer will take the NHTSA complaints serious. (You might want to check the complaints on the NHSTA website re: pttr on new Honda CRVs as they are beginning to accumulate.)
I have never doubted that some, maybe even most, '05 2WD CRVs do not have pttr. However, any one that is considering buying a CRV should know in advance how Honda employees will approach the pttr problem if they do have it. Besides my multiple posts on my experience and others' posts with similar experiences, your posts re: pttr are a prime example of what to expect from their respective Honda dealers.
I have a strong feeling that the number of posts on this Board by CRV owners with the pttr problem will continue to grow as more '05 CRVs are sold. Unfortunatly, for the many '05 Honda CRV consumers, my experience with pttr is not an isolated incident.
If any of you out there with the PTTR (pull to the right)problem wish to help others before they end up where you are at, I encourage you, if you have not already filed a formal complaint with the NHSTA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) to do so. Also, this may be one way to force Honda to acknowledge that your pttr problem is not an isoalted incident. Steve
Anyway, I took it back to the dealer and the service man had me ride as a passenger as he drove it. He said, "see, this is the crown of the road that makes the CRV pull to the right but If you want I'll put it on the alignment machine and check it".
He did align it and found some specs slightly out of adjustment but it still pulls, very slightly now, much less than before.
I fought this very problem with my 2001 Olds Alero. Had it back to the dealer 3 times to be aligned. No help! I took it to the local garage and had him align it. It steers beautifully now!!!!
I'm going to do the test for PTTR, that is, take the foot off the gas and note if it still pulls to the right.
George
Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure what you meant by 'take the foot off the gas and note if it still pulls to the right.' As I mentioned in previous posts, my pttr problem only exists upon acceleration. When coasting, the vehicle has very little pttr if at all. If it makes you feel any better, I also got the 'crown treatment' from one of the technicians on one of my test drives. It looks like this is one of Honda's standard answers to the pttr problem. Good luck. I truly hope your new purchase works out better than mine. Steve
It's possible you may be a bit over tuned in to this and others wouldn't have even noticed.
I wonder how many happy CRV owners read these forums, then get into their CRV, drive down the street, take their hands off the wheel only to discover theirs has an ever so slight pull too?
And please let me know if you find a vehicle with no reported problems.
I very much agree with you about these boards. They are great to gather information where normally we wouldn't think a problem may exist.
When I follow the posts of others' 'personal experience' that actually own an '05 Honda and my own 'personal experience' dealing with Honda to SOLVE the problem, it seems to me that the excuses that you and Honda have come up with for people with pttr (and, in the past, CRV engine fires) sound like a broken record after a while. Anyone reading your posts would come to the conclusion that they are alone with the pttr problem and engine fires. Rather than continuing to down play these serious problems, can you actually provide any solution? That is the purpose of this Board. i.e. identify the problem and provide a solution. I am doing my best to accomplish this task. If you can offer anything in this regard, please do so.
If you are looking for people who tout the '05 CRV as the best vehicle experience they have ever had, then you're right, you won't find it on the CRV 'Problems and Solutions' Board.
As I am sure you are painfully aware, after Honda continued to downplay the engine fire problem on '04 CRVs (including where the fault lies) the NHTSA, who had an ongoing investigtion actually closed the investigation only to re-open it, once again, when Honda's reasons for the fire and Honda's attempts to solve the engine fire problem failed significantly. I hope this is not a repeat performance when it comes to the pttr problem. Steve
Actually, I think these boards are a great thing. My guess would be that people from Honda Corporate read them too and take actions.
I still maintain that given the huge numbers of CRV's sold, the problems are minimal.
Still, they should all be trouble free, I suppose.
*Rotated all the tires
*Done an alignment (vehicle is in correct specs, but still pulls - Honda stated this)
*Put the car on an alignment cradle (again within specs, but still pulls).
*Took all new tires from a new CRV (excuse me but I thought mine was new), thinking it was a tire issue.
Honda stated they could not figure out the problem, but that the Honda of America representative would be at the lot that day (coincidence??) to test the vehicle. Oh did I mention that Honda said they were running out of procedures to fix the car and wanted to see how it ran with the head hauncho there.
They have now given the car back and said they were able to MINIMIZE the problem and that it is within an acceptable limit of pull as published by Honda, however, it still pull within a 3 second period. What is an Acceptable pull. Take your hands off the wheel for one second on a flat road, without wind and you are in a ditch.
We are now looking at bringing the vehicle in a forth time and fully pursuing the lemon law.
I WISH I had know that there was a chance that this would happen before we bought the CRV and kept looking until we found one that did not pull.
For those of you that say you have never had a problem, I certainly envy you. I am not saying this happens on ALL CRVs, but it is a larger problem than I thought previously. When you end up with the CRV that pulls you will certainly empathize. Just a warning for people like me, doing all the research and still ending up with a car that is less than my dream car..this coming from a diehard Honda owner. Well if this is not resolved... I heading to Toyota.
I told them the truth. I also showed them my CRV that I drive everyday without the slightest fear of a fire or anything else.
If you have not already done so, file a complaint on the NHSTA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) website re: pttr. These statistics are memorialized for all time and others may be saved the trouble we must endure. My understanding is alot of people check that website before purchasing a vehicle. (Unfortunately, I was not one of the wise ones.) Moreover, if enough complaints are filed, NHTSA will request that Honda address the problem so we can eventually get some sort of remedy. Steve
"It is common to front wheel drives some more than others."
This is true.
And you also stated: "the more power a engine has the more torque steer you are likely to have,generaly speaking."
This is untrue. Engine output does in no way determine the degree of torque steering effect. The largest single factor influencing torque steer is the difference in drive axle lengths.
I just read your reply in which you said:
...traveling on the freeway is supposed to change lanes in less than 2 seconds when the driver's hands are off the wheel,...
It is NEVER safe to drive on the freeway or any public road with your hands off the steering wheel. What on earth are you thinking?! Cars do not currently have directional autopilot systems. How about a little personal accountability and respect for the public safety? More than 40,000 Americans die on our roads each year. Are you part of the problem or the solution?
So what you're really saying is
with no hands on the steering wheel, and while accelerating to speed, your CRV will move to the right. What do you expect??