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As far as parking collision concern, having a tire in the back might be even beneficial - the guy in the back would see his grill touching your rear tire. If you is backing up yourself, your back vision is not adequate anyway. And CR-V is not unique in this respect - hey, try to back up in Volvo sedan...
But, no damage to the CR-V each time, except for a torn spare tire cover, and probably $1000 or more to the hood/grill of the car behind me..
So.. I think you may be correct in your assumptions, but my anecdotal evidence says the guy behind you is the one with the problem.
I think for parking lot "tappers", this will be even more likely.. It really takes a big whack to damage that rear door..
regards,
kyfdx
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I have a 05 SE with the dreaded pull to the right problem. I have been back to the dealer twice already. First so called fix was adjust tire press. Second so called fix was to tweak the alignment and rotate tires. In the process the bums scarfed up my rim. On my next trip to the dealer, they are going to replace the tires and the rim that was damaged. But I am curious as to how they were able to cure your PTTR problem? Was it just new tires?? If so what kind of tires did they replace them with? I would seriously like to know why nobody from Honda has heard of this problem when questioned about it. I would appreciated any info regarding solutions. Thanks
Actually, I'm the one with the PTTR problem, Varmint is the group moderator, and if memory serves, he's never run across a PTTR CRV.
They corrected much of my problem by adjusting the camber on the front wheels. To do so, they apparently have to replace a bolt (with one of a different size). Doing this has kept the car from pulling when it's rolling down the road (it now drives perfectly straight). It still pulls under acceleration though, they were never able to fix that.
I would also like to make everyone here aware that American Honda customer relations WAS willing to give me their 7 year / 100,000 mile Honda Care extended warranty for free (it costs $905). Their basic argument was: "we think the car is fine and we're willing to stand behind it. We'll give you our long term bumper-bumper warranty to prove that".
Perhaps this may be an option for some of you (when faced with the alternative of going to court).
Actually, the most costly damage was to the exhaust system and plastic skin of the bumper.
Getting hit by a truck with a tall facade, or being hit at high speeds will likely cause more damage. However, I don't think the average bumper tap during parking is something to lose sleep over.
That said, some have fixed it with an alignment. Some have fixed it with new tires. Some have not been able to get it corrected and others have only been able to get the symptoms reduced. So it is not an easy issue to address.
Maggie
That was the price the dealer quoted when we bought the car (in Grand Rapids, MI).
Perhaps it depends on which model you own and/or the purchase price. I have the bargain basement 2WD LX model and I paid invoice price for it ($18,400-something).
If you have a higher end model maybe that's why yours is more.
Going to get it to local Honda dealership to get fixed - but just curious if there is some quirky thing with CR-V's I should know about that would cause this problem, or just a defective battery (or maybe some electrical problem).
Thanks.
Mariataz - When vehicles are shipped, the electrical system is disabled. Prior to sale, the dealer should prep the vehicle. Among other things, that includes hooking up the electricals. It's possible they left something loose. Check the fuses and battery cables.
Also, was anyone able to resolve the problem? if yes, How??
Omer
Having another new 05 CRV EX(4WD), it very slightly PTTR,
Hoping HONDA will coming up to resolve the PTTR issue
I am very curious on how many people are experiencing the same problem??
I spoke with cutomer service rep at Honda America and they stated they never heard of this problem before. What a line of BS
And perhaps the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hasn't heard of this problem, either. I just checked the NHTSA site, and there are two complaints on file for the 2005 Honda CR-V - one for air bags not deploying with a front-end collision and one for a fire after a first oil change at the dealer. Nothing about problems with pulling to the right, although I have seen several posts here on this forum describing serious problems in this area.
If anyone out there has a PTTR problem with your CR-V, how about filing a complaint with NHTSA?
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/
The next day, it stalled and the check engine light came on. The light stayed on and it would restart but stall at low speed as when coming to a stop. Took it to the honda dealer and they found nothing wrong with the car and reset the check engine light. Picked it up after hours, it was hard to start but the light was off. This morning no problem until about 25 miles of driving, check engine light came on while stopped at traffic light. It didn't actually stall but the rpm went down to almost 0. Any ideas?
Did they tell you what the code(s) were that caused the Check Engine Light? It should have been on your receipt! Make sure they give you that information.
JM2C
MCS
Coudiebug, With respect to a class action suit re: PTTR, that type of lawsuit is not my forte. Also, unless there are some serious injuries, most lawyers won't take on the automobile industry. I can tell you for sure that if the PTTR problem ends up resulting in any major injuries, some lawyer will jump on it and use this info to prove Honda is painfully aware of the problem but considered PTTR 'normal.'
I do get customers who like to take their hands off the steering wheel while driving. When the car slightly drifts to the right, they think it's pulling. Big difference between a normal "drift" and a "pull"
Someone mentioned this is more of a problem on the 2WD models? In my neck of the woods these don't sell very well...I've probably sold maybe three since 1997. If these do have a problem I wouldn't know since I can't remember the last time I was in one.
I'm not unsympathetic to people with problems. Take it back and have them fix it. I do stand by my statement that problems tend to get groosly overblown in these forums!
My CRV that definitely has the PTTR problem is a 2WD. The vehicle has now been inspected 3 times by the Authorized Honda Dealer and once by the Honda Manufacturer technician. Of the 3 times the vehicle went to the Dealer, only once (the third time, they admitted there was a problem. They were unable to fix the problem. The Honda Manufacturer technician, after test driving, would not comment either way on the problem.
The fact that you have not been in a 2WD for a while may explain why you have not experienced any problems with the '05 CRV. Likewise, I have not been in an '05 AWD CRV so I cannot comment either way on those. I do note that I have never owned a car that 'drifted' to the right when there was no crown in the road. Is this something that all cars are supposed to do or just Hondas? I'm curious. This may explain why the Honda Manufacturer technician stated that there is no spec limit that Honda places on a 'drift.' It seems to me that this would also be a problem because if there is no limit on 'drift,' when does it become a 'pull.' Seems like determining whether a particular vehicle 'drifts' or 'pulls' to the right would be like splitting hairs. If you are aware of any spec limit in this regard, please share it with us. My vehicle changes lanes within 2 seconds on the freeway if I do not place my hands on the wheel. Drift or pull...label as you will...I don't think it is safe to have to place permanent pressure to the left to insure that the vehicle stays straight.
On another note, I checked some of the other SUV Boards to see what popped up re: PTTR. Either Honda CRV owners are more sensitive to their steering or the problem does not exist to the extent as noted by others on this Board. The other Vehicle Boards either minimally mention the problem or refer others to the Honda Board where the problem is mentioned repeatedly by multiple persons.
Just as a side note, as I mentioned in a previous post, I drove literally thousands of vehicles over a ten year period as I was a valet parker for ten years, five days a week. I did not find it normal for vehicles to do anything other than drive straight when no hands were on the wheel and there was no crown in the road. In fact, I found that if a vehicle is turned in one direction (right or left) and the driver's hands are taken off the wheel after the turn, the vehicle will straighten itself out without intervention on behalf of the driver and eventually go straight again. This is a safety feature. Steve
What you describe here sounds like torque steering.
This influences the steering of virtually all front wheel drive vehicles to one degree or another. It can be quite pronounced in some cars and nearly transparent in others. However all cars of the exact same design will exhibit this characteristic to the same degree; after all they're made of the same parts assembled in the same way.
It is a result of drive axles of unequal lengths. Longer axles transmit greater torque. If you look under any front wheel drive car you'll see the drive axles are almost always unequal in length. Under acceleration one front wheel is pulling a bit harder than the other. One wheel is being accelerated with more twisting force (torque). When acceleration winds down the torque delivered to both front wheels is roughly equal.
This has no effect on vehicle wheel alignment. Torque steer cannot change the alignment of the car's wheels. It is true that improperly aligned wheels will cause poor handling, pulling, premature tire wear, and so on. But if your vehicle had to be aligned twice in 2400 miles you're dealing with another problem altogether. It is possible the vehicle was delivered to you with improperly aligned wheels. It happens all the time. Maybe the technician doing the alignment didn't do it right the first time and it had to be done again? There's no way to know for sure at this point.
Just remember that torque steering and wheel alignment are not the same thing. Torque steer will not change your wheel alignment settings. Unless I suppose it pulled you to the right and into a huge pothole which then hammered the suspension hard enough to change the alignment.
If I were in your position, I would have the wheel alignment verified by a state-of-the-art independent suspension service facility. Then and only then can you get a feel for torque steer without misalignment possibly being in the mix.
Good luck!
Thanks again for the information.
I've got a 2003 CRV LX. Overall, I really love this car. The real clincher for me was the gate style rear door. Coupled with a spare tire rack, it is the PERFECT solution for bikes. I also found that when you unbolt the back seats you have a very flat surface that is quite comfortable to sleep on, and plenty long enough for a 6' person. This has been the perfect car for my road trips that include camping and biking. Lots of room and relatively good mileage for what it is.
Two things that bother me, thus my two questions:
Question #1
I would like to stiffen up the ride a little bit. By this I mean it rolls a bit more than I like in corners. I don't want to lower it, just stiffen it. I am not a suspension expert, most of what I know is from mountain bikes, but I would think I am looking at new springs and shocks? Or will just new shocks do the trick? Any links to relavent sites would be great. I am by no means an agressive or fast driver, but on windy country roads, or at highway speeds I would like some more control.
Question #2
I am fairly dissapointed with this car in the snow. This is hands down the worst 4WD/AWD I've owned (others were an `86 Toyota pickup and a `95 Subaru Legacy). In fact it may be the worst I've driven. The problem is not what it will get itself through, it's fine in that regard. It will climb a hill pretty well (sort of). The problem is the handeling is downright sketchy. First of all, the front end has a strong tendancy to "plow" (I'm using a mountain bike term). Even at very slow speeds, like turning around in a parking lot, the back seems to push the front end in a staight line. It makes sense that the back should get more traction than the front, but the same was true of my Lecacy, and it never did this. The worst is going downhill. This is the scariest car (2wd or 4wd) I have ever driven down a snowy hill. It feels like the front end goes wherever it wants, and leaving it in gear (which has always helped on other vehicles) actually makes it worse.
The other issue is that when climing a hill in snow, it always feels like one of the front tires is slipping a bit faster than the other. I can tell because my engine will be running about 500 RMP faster than when I let off the gas and coast (not that you can coast very far up a hill). I would expect this if I were really gunning it but I know how to drive in the snow and I give it as little gas as is needed. Because of this slipping it is often pulling to one side or the other.
I have snow tires on it, which help, but the tendacies I've described are still present. I've never needed snow tires on a 4wd before. Granted I live outside of Tahoe where there is an incredible amount of snow, but my friend's Forester with terribly worn tires is much more predictable (I've driven it quite alot), and they keep the roads well cleared.
I guess my question is whether this is normal. Is there something wrong with the RT4WD? Or is this just the way it is? Again, the overall traction to move me forward is fine, but the handeling is not.
I am open to driving advice, but keep in mind that I am 38 years old and have always lived in hilly or mountainous areas with snow and ice (sometimes on unmaintaned/unplowed roads), and until 10 years ago never owned a 4wd. I know how to drive in the snow.
Any input would be great.
Thanks.
Jeff
I bought my CRV LX 4wd 2 weeks ago and i have been suffering from the PTTR issue from day one. I am fighting with my dealership to return my car. I would know the out come tommorow.
FYI: For the past 4 days i have road tested 4 brand new 05 CRVs (EXs & LXs)from different dealers. Guess what!!! They all have the PTTR problem.
If any one is thinking about buying a new CRV, my advice is STAY AWAY!!!
Thanks for the input. If you're interested, you can file your complaint on the NHSTA website.http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ The only other complaint re: PTTR on the NHSTA was filed by me. I noticed that there are a multitude of complaints re: the engine fires on the '04 models. The good thing about filing a complaint is it will, hopefully, prevent Honda from denying the problem exists. FYI, my wife went and test drove a different '05 CRV recently and also concluded that it pulled to the right. The Honda rep stated that they all do that.
2) I run dedicated snows and have no issues with the V in the snow. My parents have the same car, I talked them into snows and now they don't know how they lived without them. I think the V is better in the deep snow than my much heavier Pilot, with the same type of snow tires. It's at least as good as the Pilot on ice and slush. I've driven a number of 4wd and AWD vehicles, (Fords, Subarus, Chevy's), without a doubt these 2 Hondas are my favorites.
This is my first time posting a message here, but I have been following this PTTR problem for about a month thru a few forums like this one ever since I'm planing to buy a CRV ET AT by this March.
I thought the PTTR problem shows up with brand new CRV as soon as you test drive it. Your experience of test driving four new CRVs confirms my assumption. So how come you still bought one with PTTR? Does it mean some CRV won't show PTTR until it's been driven for a while?
I would really appreciate any advise to spot PTTR during test drive. I don't want to buy one and then three days later, it starts to pull. Can anyone help please?
Omer, thanks for your posting and good luck returing the CRV.
Ray
Sorry...I don't buy that!
Just make sure you drive the CRV you are going to buy. I seriously dobt if you will feel any pulls to the right. Also very doubtful a pull will be felt later on.
This was my first time posting messages in any forum. I bought this car for my Finacee'. She did the test drive not myself. 2 mistakes were done:
1) She test drove it for only 2 mintues.
2) She informed me of the problem after a week of driving.
So the problem happened from day one. It did not happen after driving for three days.
Four out of four.... by isellhondas Mar 07, 2005 (10:23 am)
Pull to the right???
Sorry...I don't buy that!
My reply:
Your own company is "selling" it. Honda refused to take my CRV back, or to exchange it for another model, on the grounds that all CRVs PTTR. They agreed that in some vehicles the problem will be more pronounced than in others, but after testing 4 CRVs at my local dealership they concluded that they all do it.
So, as I've written before, if you're in the market for a CRV pay CAREFULL attention to the amount of pull your test vehicle exhibits. If it's too much for your taste DON'T BUY IT! You likely will not be able to get Honda to fix it or give you your money back.
I bought a 2005 honda CRV-EX AT and was disappointed to realize that the cars pulls to the right. I hoped I was wrong, I asked others to test drive yet- same result. It is annoying to me. I took it to the dealership and I was told that it is the "crown in the road" I guess all the roads and highways, no matter what lane I am on, tend to tilt to the right. I was annoyned that I started to search the web for answers and this is how I came across this forum.
Did anyone find a solution to this problem? I also have safety concerns!
Thanks