I really liked that car (except for the lack of room and kind of cheap interior). If I wasn't in a carpool phase of life, and my family wasn't so tall, we probably would have considered it.
1- do you really think that alll situations involving semis are severe ...meaning no vehicle would survive ? Of couse not, depends on speeds, angles, ect
2- It seems that you are stunned that anyone survived. I think that most people hold the same view...that semis are dangerous when they are one of the collision partners/factors. But is it possible that people do survive collisions with SEMIs ?
Clearly they have, but this accident sounded very severe...
3- If yes it is possible, then would it not be possible for different vehicles with different characteristics , lets say diff weight, diff bumper heights, diff crumple zones, diff visibilities, to actually mitigate the severity of a collision with a semi ? Is that possible ? Objectively speaking ?
Perhaps, but the best your going to achieve here is pure conjecture. I am willing to bet a higher bumper would not have helped in this case. The only way to get a definative answer is actual testing, and I am not aware of any testing that simulates a semi accident from any angle or speed...
Take a perusal at the topics across Edmunds. Including this one, IDLSWDY, Wagons v SUVs, etc.
There are tons of non-SUV owners who accuse SUV owners who bought their vehicles for image reasons. That says more about the anti-SUVers than SUVs or SUV owners.
One who presumes does not question. Thanks for the self-rebuttal :=) And I don't recall asking you.
There is a difference between asking and questioning another person's judgement. It indeed takes a presumptious attitude to automaticly question the wisdom of other people's purchases. You never asked, but instead presumptions questioned the judgement of all SUV owners who do not put a hitch on their SUVs, that includes me.
Try to stick to the topic...hint, it's not me. And try to be objective...the SUV cheerleading is a bit grating.
Indeed stick to the topic please. SUV vs. Minivans, the vehicles not the people. Why are so many anti-SUVers accusing SUV owners of this and that anyway instead of sticking with the top of vehicles not the persons? So long as the diatribes against SUV owners' judgement runs rampant on a forum like this, the anti-SUVers make themselves open to equally vitriolic attacks. Turn around is fair play.
Did you measure the top of the frame or just the bottom? Frame material? Density of structure? No vehicle has a totally consistant and constant GC at all points. It's a rough average of sorts. My statement was that the HL's frame is higher than most MVs. That's true.
The original poster asked whether HL and Pilot are closer to to Sienna and Odyssey. Your response of "most MV's" is quite irrelevent. Did you make the measurements before posting your statement? I doubt you even bothered to bend down and look at the bottom of HL or Sienna. AWD HL and FWD HL have different frame height, and the two heights are very similar to that of the respective Sienna models.
There are tons of non-SUV owners who accuse SUV owners who bought their vehicles for image reasons. That says more about the anti-SUVers than SUVs or SUV owners.
It says they made a judgement. It may be right or wrong. It's a discussion point. Get over it.
It indeed takes a presumptious attitude to automaticly question the wisdom of other people's purchases.
Automatically? There's nothing automatic about the questions posed on TH unless one is using software to generate it.
For a person terrified of folks questioning purchases, you came to a funny place.
You never asked...
Correct...thanks for the retraction.
SUV vs. Minivans, the vehicles not the people.
Reasons for purchases are a reflection of the person. Feel free to ignore posts that are outside of your scope of interest.
Turn around is fair play.
Learn the distinction between judgements about folks' purchasing parameters in general and gratuitous attacks on members of this discussion.
Your big MV's are ~ 1.5 ft longer, but you also get more space (for roughly the same gas mileage). 30+ cu ft cargo space with 7 passengers vs 10.5 cu ft w/ 7 passengers in the highlander (do you need it? - personal preference). Also, that 3rd row seat is very tight for adults and not particularly accessible for anyone.
Most people don't need the extra 30+ cu.ft beyond 81 cu.ft. That's why mid-size sedans and wagons out-numbered full-sized ones even before the advent of minivans and SUVs in 1984, and still are today, by a wide margin. When I have 3 kids, I will probably be driving a MV, but for now, with no kid, just a lot of cargo and a 90lb dog to carry around, the Highlander and the station wagon, each with 70-80cu.ft interior space and 185-189" exterior length serve us quite well. There is no need to carry around the extra foot length, or extra half foot width.
Regarding dinging doors, as much as I like sliders (I have said that several times, I really do), the minivan's extra half foot width makes it hard to park in most shopping malls garages around here without risking being dinged. I wish they would make SUVs with sliders, the best of both worlds when it comes to having a small foot print.
For us, and probably for a lot of other SUV owners, the Highlander is a just a small version of Sienna (or, Sienna Light, if you will). For the life of me, I can't grasp why anti-SUVers want us to get into a bigger MV instead of the small ones that we have.
The interior layout looks very similar to the Hyundai Modern that I saw overseas and alluded to in an earlier post.
BTW, at the other end of the size and capacity scale, I don't know if anyone else notice that Mazda 5 spec is online at Edmunds. The specs look very similar to FWD CRV; the sliders are cool, but the gas mileage is actually worse than CRV. Goes to show just how similar MV and SUV really are.
I don't see a single sentence of SUV vs. Minivan comparison in your post. But since it's somehow allowed into the forum, I will follow up and try to bring it back to the topic of SUV vs. MV.
> Automatically?
As in "Knee-jerk reaction"
Correct...thanks for the retraction.
No retraction involved. See previous post on the difference between an honest inquiry vs. dismissive questioning of the sanity of others.
Reasons for purchases are a reflection of the person.
Person is no the topic of discussion here, is it? While we are talking about the person, accusing SUV owners of vanity seems to be more of a reflection of the accuser than the accused, since the accusers seem to be owners of image-mobiles themselves.
Learn the distinction between judgements about folks' purchasing parameters in general and gratuitous attacks on members of this discussion.
"Learn . . . " is that a gratuitous attack on member of this discussion or what? Please learn to read before repeatedly bring up aspects of the discussion already covered (e.g. honest asking vs. gratuitous questioning/suspecting) Since quite a few members of the forum actually own SUVs, many anti-SUVers' gratuitous attacks and assumptions on SUV owners' vanity are obvious attacks against other members of the forum.
Now back to MV vs. SUVs. I just don't understand why anyone who is concerned about SUV gas mileage or danger to others would want to convince me to add a couple feet and 500lbs to my Highlander in order to get a Sienna.
...Mazda 5...gas mileage is actually worse than CRV. Goes to show just how similar MV and SUV really are.
LOL. Some car-based SUVs are quite similar to some MVs, but across the spectrum of mid and large SUVs, the majority are nothing like MVs. Large SUVs are all truck based, are much heavier and get far worse mpg than MVs. Most mid SUVs sold are also truck based and while not as heavy or poor in mpg as the large ones, the differences from MVs are significant.
I don't see a single sentence of SUV vs. Minivan comparison in your post.
A large % of posts here are similar. And mine was a response to yours. So, your point escapes me.
Person is no the topic of discussion here, is it?
Reasons for purchase are, and they come from the person. Do you really consider this a productive line of discussion?
anti-SUVers' gratuitous attacks and assumptions on SUV owners' vanity are obvious attacks against other members of the forum.
Therefore all critical judgements about SUVs and purchase decisions are verboten. Sure, reasonable POV. Go figure. Look, you've made your "point". Let's move on, I'm not interested and I doubt anyone else is and it will have zero impact on what's discussed here.
...to convince me to add a couple feet and 500lbs to my Highlander...
I don't recall anyone doing so. Have you checked under your bed for commies lately? :=)
I have a suggestion. Rather than continuously commenting on what others post, whether they should do so in a certain manner, and making otherwise personal comments, how about we limit the discussion to MV/SUV comparisons and the relevant comments thereof.
was that a tumbleweed rolling through here? here's my observations as an suv owner. mid size suv's(most common) are smaller than MV's the can hold 7 passengers. (gm excluded). most 7 or more passenger MV's weigh about the same as comparable suv's. with a light load, the MV will get better mileage. loaded up, they are not all that different. SUV is better in adverse driving conditions(bad roads, snow, etc).
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
One of the guys I work with just picked up a new GMC Envoy Denali. It has the 5.3L V8. He drove around Michigan and then back to CA. He averaged 20 MPG for the trip home. He has a 2 year old Envoy with the 6 cylinder and the best he ever gets is 17 MPG. He really likes the new one. Will be selling the old one when all the giveaway programs have ended. Good choice if you want a midsized SUV that is not cramped.
how about we limit the discussion to MV/SUV comparisons and the relevant comments thereof.
That's what I have been trying to do all along. Stop the personal attacks against SUV owners. Speculations on people's vanity (and the explicit or implicit chastisement) is not part of the vehicle characteristic of either MV or SUV.
We can move the categories around a bit; it would be nice to offer some other model owners the chance to find this discussion. Hope you subscribed to this one, Explorerx. :-)
How are you submitting to the transit police baggage checks in NY ?
Hope all is well...and you are cycling as usual... hooray for Lance, eh ?
minivans are good...but I see less and less Previas....I liked the looks and performance and space....but the small 4 cylinder engine that got me only max 22 mpg was a little too little. City driving yielded only 16 to 17 mpg.
Todays' SUV s and minivans are all better in both horsepower and gas mileage, compared to those only a few years older.
Today in SF BayArea , it is the first "save the air day" of the year..... since weather had been relatively cool and breezy...so no air quality problems..until today......there are over 17 transit agencies offering free rides . They are encouraging people to get out of their cars, into carpools or public transit. It is front page news in todays ' SF Chornicle......
Speculations on people's vanity (and the explicit or implicit chastisement) is not part of the vehicle characteristic...
I never claimed it was. But it's relevant to purchase decisions re SUVs and MVs and that's what this topic is about. And I will continue to bring it up where I deem it appropriate.
In any case, I counsel restraint with re to telling me what and how to post. you're wasting your time, since I will simply ignore it and you're boring everyone else. Feel free to ignore my advice.
How are you submitting to the transit police baggage checks in NY ?
The only reasonable way, by complying. Happened only once, so far, last nite.
Yes, I'm cycling 3-4 times a week (not counting spinning). Had two big rides last week in the Catskills, both featuring 7-8% climbs. I'll miss the Lance show next year.
The Previa is a bit of a dinosaur. Today's MVs are light years better.
good for ya....it is good to comply with the searches...it is best for all...
I only had one ride this whole summer....
Previa is a bit of a dino...but what a lovely dino.... it did have lots of room.. but was weak on power, though it got only 22 mpg. Today's MV are V6 mostly, with decent hp and relatively good mileage ....
Today in SF BayArea , it is the first "save the air day" of the year..... since weather had been relatively cool and breezy...so no air quality problems..until today......there are over 17 transit agencies offering free rides . They are encouraging people to get out of their cars, into carpools or public transit. It is front page news in todays ' SF Chornicle......
Let's see, by my calculations I should be breathing and reaping the benefits of your "save the air day" sometime around this weekend here in Massachusetts. Thanks for making my coming weekend extra special! :-)
I should be breathing and reaping the benefits of your "save the air day" sometime around this weekend here in Massachusetts.
Yes...it all helps (here goes the word !!) ameliorate the effects of our modern society...... to tell you the truth...I even postponed picking up a craiglist item yesterday due to the smog....You guys have craigslist there also, don't ya ?
Thanks for making my coming weekend extra special!
your welcome...but to make it even more special, how about some KK with a frappuccino , and we can share with all on this board ? it has been sometime since....ooops..I forget, this is not that board...
A SUV is vehicle that offers available four- or all-wheel-drive and raised ground clearance in combination with a two- or four-door wagon or convertible body.
A minivan is a vehicle with a short hood and a box-shaped body enclosing a large cargo/passenger area.
I decided to go figure this thing out for myself. I went the other day and drove the Pilot and a new Ody. The Pilot kinda felt like my 01 Ody. That's not really a bad thing. But then I got in the new 05 Ody Touring. The thing feels like an Acura. They have made some great improvements since 01. Very tight, responsive, good gas mileage with the VCM engine. I was very impressed. It's the first time I've heard my wife ever (in this context) use the word "SWEET". So we bought it.
Did you get a decent price? When I went and looked at them 6 months ago, the dealer near me was tacking on 3 grand above the MSRP. I guess that & SUVs are the only thing that Honda can sell right now. If I were to buy a mini-van the Ody would be at the top of the list.
depends on how you look at it. They wouldn't budge off of 1000 over invoice, but the next day they called and offered me 1200 over fair market trade for my van (according to edmunds). So, we basically went invoice -- to trade in price, or 1200 over on the trade to 1000 over invoice. If I would have just bought it without the trade, they would have stuck to the 1000 over invoice. They had to save face somewhere. I knew too much. Thanks to edmunds research and this forum. When I started rattling off #'s and interest rates and rebates on stuff, they knew they weren't playing with a dummy. The sales mngr had to act like he knew it all, etc. You know the game. Hope that all makes sense, and hope it helps.
It makes lots of sense. And in your case dollars and cents. Good for you. I am glad people are sticking to their guns and not letting the dealers gouge on the good selling vehicles.
from the article: Around-town drivers won't have much to complain about, but snowboarders won't be making any time up mountainous roads where the 5 really slugs along.
Looks like you won't be using one of these to go up to Bogus Basin this year. :-)
Someone in the Subaru Crew chat last night (Juice, iirc) mentioned that the Mazda5 gets more power and AWD in other countries. So there's still hope....
Where does my Ford Freestyle fit in here? A little bit of car (handling, driving position), a little bit of SUV (4 wheel drive, appearance), a little bit of minivan (holds 7 comfortably + luggage). And don't believe what you hear about it being underpowered because the CVT transmission gets more out of the engine than a normal tranny.
Guess you're taking over for highender as resident yukster :=)
I guess that & SUVs are the only thing that Honda can sell right now.
Right, that's why the Accord and the Civic are #5 and #6 in the top ten for all passenger vehicles in '05 so far.
I am glad people are sticking to their guns and not letting the dealers gouge on the good selling vehicles.
It's hard to gouge in a buyers market. Granted that it's on a whole other level with US automakers who are practically giving them away in a desperate move to stop losing market share, but obviously it's strong demand (relatively) for their vehicles that is allowing Honda, Nissan and Toyota to resist rebates. It's telling that not giving rebates passes for gouging these days :=) Well, at least to some.
Guess you're taking over for highender as resident yukster
Everyone needs a break now and then. Someone has to refute the misinformation spread around about the evils of owning the vehicle you want. I think you misread my post on gouging. When Toyota takes advantage of a weak minded "greenie" that has their mind set on buying a Prius no matter the cost, I consider that gouging. I consider adding $3k on top of the price of a Honda Odyssey gouging. I did not say it was illegal just unethical. A term you like to use a lot. Have a wonderful weekend. I imagined with the heat you would be out on the water to keep cool.
PS Most of the automakers are selling better than last year. Honda is only selling well with their SUV & minivan line.
Comments
Of couse not, depends on speeds, angles, ect
2- It seems that you are stunned that anyone survived. I think that most people hold the same view...that semis are dangerous when they are one of the collision partners/factors. But is it possible that people do survive collisions with SEMIs ?
Clearly they have, but this accident sounded very severe...
3- If yes it is possible, then would it not be possible for different vehicles with different characteristics , lets say diff weight, diff bumper heights, diff crumple zones, diff visibilities, to actually mitigate the severity of a collision with a semi ?
Is that possible ? Objectively speaking ?
Perhaps, but the best your going to achieve here is pure conjecture. I am willing to bet a higher bumper would not have helped in this case. The only way to get a definative answer is actual testing, and I am not aware of any testing that simulates a semi accident from any angle or speed...
There are tons of non-SUV owners who accuse SUV owners who bought their vehicles for image reasons. That says more about the anti-SUVers than SUVs or SUV owners.
One who presumes does not question. Thanks for the self-rebuttal :=) And I don't recall asking you.
There is a difference between asking and questioning another person's judgement. It indeed takes a presumptious attitude to automaticly question the wisdom of other people's purchases. You never asked, but instead presumptions questioned the judgement of all SUV owners who do not put a hitch on their SUVs, that includes me.
Try to stick to the topic...hint, it's not me. And try to be objective...the SUV cheerleading is a bit grating.
Indeed stick to the topic please. SUV vs. Minivans, the vehicles not the people. Why are so many anti-SUVers accusing SUV owners of this and that anyway instead of sticking with the top of vehicles not the persons? So long as the diatribes against SUV owners' judgement runs rampant on a forum like this, the anti-SUVers make themselves open to equally vitriolic attacks. Turn around is fair play.
Did you measure the top of the frame or just the bottom? Frame material? Density of structure? No vehicle has a totally consistant and constant GC at all points. It's a rough average of sorts. My statement was that the HL's frame is higher than most MVs. That's true.
The original poster asked whether HL and Pilot are closer to to Sienna and Odyssey. Your response of "most MV's" is quite irrelevent. Did you make the measurements before posting your statement? I doubt you even bothered to bend down and look at the bottom of HL or Sienna. AWD HL and FWD HL have different frame height, and the two heights are very similar to that of the respective Sienna models.
It says they made a judgement. It may be right or wrong. It's a discussion point. Get over it.
It indeed takes a presumptious attitude to automaticly question the wisdom of other people's purchases.
Automatically? There's nothing automatic about the questions posed on TH unless one is using software to generate it.
For a person terrified of folks questioning purchases, you came to a funny place.
You never asked...
Correct...thanks for the retraction.
SUV vs. Minivans, the vehicles not the people.
Reasons for purchases are a reflection of the person. Feel free to ignore posts that are outside of your scope of interest.
Turn around is fair play.
Learn the distinction between judgements about folks' purchasing parameters in general and gratuitous attacks on members of this discussion.
Your response of "most MV's" is quite irrelevent.
Feel free to ignore it.
Most people don't need the extra 30+ cu.ft beyond 81 cu.ft. That's why mid-size sedans and wagons out-numbered full-sized ones even before the advent of minivans and SUVs in 1984, and still are today, by a wide margin. When I have 3 kids, I will probably be driving a MV, but for now, with no kid, just a lot of cargo and a 90lb dog to carry around, the Highlander and the station wagon, each with 70-80cu.ft interior space and 185-189" exterior length serve us quite well. There is no need to carry around the extra foot length, or extra half foot width.
Regarding dinging doors, as much as I like sliders (I have said that several times, I really do), the minivan's extra half foot width makes it hard to park in most shopping malls garages around here without risking being dinged. I wish they would make SUVs with sliders, the best of both worlds when it comes to having a small foot print.
For us, and probably for a lot of other SUV owners, the Highlander is a just a small version of Sienna (or, Sienna Light, if you will). For the life of me, I can't grasp why anti-SUVers want us to get into a bigger MV instead of the small ones that we have.
More pics in the Subaru Crew topic:
rsholland, "Subaru Crew Cafe" #10852, 15 Jul 2005 11:40 am
BTW, at the other end of the size and capacity scale, I don't know if anyone else notice that Mazda 5 spec is online at Edmunds. The specs look very similar to FWD CRV; the sliders are cool, but the gas mileage is actually worse than CRV. Goes to show just how similar MV and SUV really are.
> Automatically?
As in "Knee-jerk reaction"
Correct...thanks for the retraction.
No retraction involved. See previous post on the difference between an honest inquiry vs. dismissive questioning of the sanity of others.
Reasons for purchases are a reflection of the person.
Person is no the topic of discussion here, is it? While we are talking about the person, accusing SUV owners of vanity seems to be more of a reflection of the accuser than the accused, since the accusers seem to be owners of image-mobiles themselves.
Learn the distinction between judgements about folks' purchasing parameters in general and gratuitous attacks on members of this discussion.
"Learn . . . " is that a gratuitous attack on member of this discussion or what? Please learn to read before repeatedly bring up aspects of the discussion already covered (e.g. honest asking vs. gratuitous questioning/suspecting) Since quite a few members of the forum actually own SUVs, many anti-SUVers' gratuitous attacks and assumptions on SUV owners' vanity are obvious attacks against other members of the forum.
Now back to MV vs. SUVs. I just don't understand why anyone who is concerned about SUV gas mileage or danger to others would want to convince me to add a couple feet and 500lbs to my Highlander in order to get a Sienna.
LOL. Some car-based SUVs are quite similar to some MVs, but across the spectrum of mid and large SUVs, the majority are nothing like MVs. Large SUVs are all truck based, are much heavier and get far worse mpg than MVs. Most mid SUVs sold are also truck based and while not as heavy or poor in mpg as the large ones, the differences from MVs are significant.
A large % of posts here are similar. And mine was a response to yours. So, your point escapes me.
Person is no the topic of discussion here, is it?
Reasons for purchase are, and they come from the person. Do you really consider this a productive line of discussion?
anti-SUVers' gratuitous attacks and assumptions on SUV owners' vanity are obvious attacks against other members of the forum.
Therefore all critical judgements about SUVs and purchase decisions are verboten. Sure, reasonable POV. Go figure. Look, you've made your "point". Let's move on, I'm not interested and I doubt anyone else is and it will have zero impact on what's discussed here.
...to convince me to add a couple feet and 500lbs to my Highlander...
I don't recall anyone doing so. Have you checked under your bed for commies lately? :=)
I have a suggestion. Rather than continuously commenting on what others post, whether they should do so in a certain manner, and making otherwise personal comments, how about we limit the discussion to MV/SUV comparisons and the relevant comments thereof.
What a great idea! Let's do it.
tidester, host
here's my observations as an suv owner.
mid size suv's(most common) are smaller than MV's the can hold 7 passengers.
(gm excluded).
most 7 or more passenger MV's weigh about the same as comparable suv's.
with a light load, the MV will get better mileage. loaded up, they are not all that different.
SUV is better in adverse driving conditions(bad roads, snow, etc).
I think SUVs generally use a bit more gas...but not always..lots of vans and minivans get gas mileage that is less than 20 mpg...in real life.
hope you had a good trip ....
we are going to Disneyland /LA next week.....
That's what I have been trying to do all along. Stop the personal attacks against SUV owners. Speculations on people's vanity (and the explicit or implicit chastisement) is not part of the vehicle characteristic of either MV or SUV.
tidester, host
Steve, Host
tidester, host
Hope all is well...and you are cycling as usual... hooray for Lance, eh ?
minivans are good...but I see less and less Previas....I liked the looks and performance and space....but the small 4 cylinder engine that got me only max 22 mpg was a little too little. City driving yielded only 16 to 17 mpg.
Todays' SUV s and minivans are all better in both horsepower and gas mileage, compared to those only a few years older.
Today in SF BayArea , it is the first "save the air day" of the year..... since weather had been relatively cool and breezy...so no air quality problems..until today......there are over 17 transit agencies offering free rides . They are encouraging people to get out of their cars, into carpools or public transit. It is front page news in todays ' SF Chornicle......
I never claimed it was. But it's relevant to purchase decisions re SUVs and MVs and that's what this topic is about. And I will continue to bring it up where I deem it appropriate.
In any case, I counsel restraint with re to telling me what and how to post. you're wasting your time, since I will simply ignore it and you're boring everyone else. Feel free to ignore my advice.
The only reasonable way, by complying. Happened only once, so far, last nite.
Yes, I'm cycling 3-4 times a week (not counting spinning). Had two big rides last week in the Catskills, both featuring 7-8% climbs. I'll miss the Lance show next year.
The Previa is a bit of a dinosaur. Today's MVs are light years better.
I only had one ride this whole summer....
Previa is a bit of a dino...but what a lovely dino.... it did have lots of room.. but was weak on power, though it got only 22 mpg. Today's MV are V6 mostly, with decent hp and relatively good mileage ....
I'll miss the Lance shoe also.....
Let's see, by my calculations I should be breathing and reaping the benefits of your "save the air day" sometime around this weekend here in Massachusetts. Thanks for making my coming weekend extra special!
:-)
yeah, try not to jump the turnstyles and run from police. They don't seem to llike that nowadays. (hmmm, I don't know why?)
I should be breathing and reaping the benefits of your "save the air day" sometime around this weekend here in Massachusetts.
Yes...it all helps (here goes the word !!) ameliorate the effects of our modern society...... to tell you the truth...I even postponed picking up a craiglist item yesterday due to the smog....You guys have craigslist there also, don't ya ?
Thanks for making my coming weekend extra special!
your welcome...but to make it even more special, how about some KK with a frappuccino , and we can share with all on this board ? it has been sometime since....ooops..I forget, this is not that board...
have a good weekend....
I hear ya....why would any reasonable person jump a turnstile in this era..and then run from police ? :mad:
the minivan's nowadays are getting close to 28 mpg , all the while having 230 hp plus .....nice .
the burb has been sitting in the garage....no use for it after the move. So it iis a nice backup.
Steve, Host
saw this on craigslist today:
http://www.craigslist.com/sfc/car/87340468.html
turns out a boytoy is going to be traded in for a adventure truck...not a very common occurence ?
ps...did not find much chuckles yet...but I just started....
Thank you,
Laspademaiden
A minivan is a vehicle with a short hood and a box-shaped body enclosing a large cargo/passenger area.
link
Steve, Host
the new generation can really handle the corners....
Did you get a decent price? When I went and looked at them 6 months ago, the dealer near me was tacking on 3 grand above the MSRP. I guess that & SUVs are the only thing that Honda can sell right now. If I were to buy a mini-van the Ody would be at the top of the list.
And it has sliders!
Steve, Host
We can have a shoot-out between compact SUVs and subcompact minivans and really confuse people.
Steve, Host
Around-town drivers won't have much to complain about, but snowboarders won't be making any time up mountainous roads where the 5 really slugs along.
Looks like you won't be using one of these to go up to Bogus Basin this year.
:-)
Steve, Host
I guess that & SUVs are the only thing that Honda can sell right now.
Right, that's why the Accord and the Civic are #5 and #6 in the top ten for all passenger vehicles in '05 so far.
I am glad people are sticking to their guns and not letting the dealers gouge on the good selling vehicles.
It's hard to gouge in a buyers market. Granted that it's on a whole other level with US automakers who are practically giving them away in a desperate move to stop losing market share, but obviously it's strong demand (relatively) for their vehicles that is allowing Honda, Nissan and Toyota to resist rebates. It's telling that not giving rebates passes for gouging these days :=) Well, at least to some.
Everyone needs a break now and then. Someone has to refute the misinformation spread around about the evils of owning the vehicle you want. I think you misread my post on gouging. When Toyota takes advantage of a weak minded "greenie" that has their mind set on buying a Prius no matter the cost, I consider that gouging. I consider adding $3k on top of the price of a Honda Odyssey gouging. I did not say it was illegal just unethical. A term you like to use a lot. Have a wonderful weekend. I imagined with the heat you would be out on the water to keep cool.
PS
Most of the automakers are selling better than last year. Honda is only selling well with their SUV & minivan line.