2. The daytime drive times you mentioned - that's when most moms with paying jobs have already taken the kids to day camp, so some of the women you are seeing might possibly already have dropped off the kids, or be on the way to pick them up, that would be the case for me.
4. The growing trend in our neighborhood of families (most with 3 or more school age kids) is to have two cars - large that holds all, and a sedan or convertible (PT cruisers are big here, too). The rule is the one who is drives the the kids that day drives the big car. The families with the enlightened husbands take turns being responsible for getting the kids where they need to be. In others - the man usually drives the smaller car all the time.
This isn't pro-SUV or pro-MV, just wanted to clarify a slight anti-woman slant that I might have inadvertently read into your post.
Plus he had a lot of bongo drums and safe cracking tools to carry around. Not to mention all his luggage was full of gyroscopes and electromagnets. :-)
I don't care what other people think, I'm an adventure guy (but not a curious character) in a minivan and I think that's a perfectly reasonable deviation from the beaten track. (I gotta get a few more of his books; haven't read that last title).
True you make a point, but I know many single people that bought Explorers/cherokees etc as their everyday car or commuter car, to each their own, thats their choice. My one friend just bought a new Nissan pathfinder for herself, no kids, doesn't even put anything bigger then her briefcase in it. Now she complains it uses a lot of gas, didn't she read the EPA sticker before she bought it of 14/18?
I know many families that are having their 1st kid and have to sell the perfectly fine paid for mid sized sedan that would carry said child fine and rush out and buy a BIG SUV for that 1 kid. To each their own.
Funny point on the Explorer - I too know several people with them, and they are not driving the kids around, even in those with a third row. (I personally didn't find them comfortable enough to warrant that particular SUV for any reason.)
When people here move to a large SUV for the family car, its more likely to be an Expedition or Navigator. When I went to the Ford dealer to try out the Freestyle, he kept telling me to look at the Expedition, because that's what he usually sold to women, since they can seat eight. To today's super busy moms, car pooling abilities are very important.
The idea family car would have to be the Jetson's - it always was the perfect size, whether there were two or eight in it, the whole top flipped up for easy entry, and it folded up so you didn't have to find a parking space!
When our daughter was born 5 years ago my wife was driving a 97 Jetta and I had a 98 Cabrio (Yes, I was driving the Cabrio!) Needing (wanting?) a bigger vehicle, we traded in the Cabrio and got an Explorer. It suited our needs well, especially after our son was born about a 1 1/2 year later. The worst thing about it was the mpg. OK, OK, I knew the EPA estimates, so it wasn't a surprise. It's just the fact of adding 20 gallons every 300 miles that's so painful. (Less painful when gas was$1.40/gal. ) When the lease ended we bought a minivan. Certainly for our needs, it was a much better choice. (We don't tow, go off road, or drive extensively in the snow.) I know comparing the previous generation Exploder to a minivan really isn't fair, but the van is so much better for us. We did consider buying a midsize SUV with 3 rows.
Just to touch on a couple of other points. We've gone on a couple of trips with my folks (me, my wife, 2 kids, 2 G-parents). Both were approximately 1 week trips. Once we rented a Suburban and the other a Town and Country. Both times we were able to pack everything behind the 3rd row. To be fair, it took a bit more thinking to get everything to fit in the T&C. As far as driving, the T&C was much easier to maneuver than the Suburban, although the Suburban had a much better ride than my Y2K Explorer.
The other things involves the newer car based SUVs. Shouldn't the crumple zones in a Pilot or Highlander be more like an Ody or Sienna than say, a truck based ute, like an Explorer?
I bought an 01 Ody EX new 4 1/2 years ago. I'm looking at getting something else now and almost settled on lookng at the Pilot. But, now when I do a side by side, the new Ody gets better mileage, I can probably buy similarly equipped for 1500 less, has more cargo (duh) and a few other things. The Pilot is AWD and all, BUT I HATE DRIVING A MINIVAN! I'm a truck guy. I drive a Taco. Okay, I'd rather have my F150 back, but that's another story for another thread. But, man... somebody help me here. It is my wife's main vehicle, and she was set on a Pilot as well. Do I go with my brain/wallet or heart? The Ody's been a good van, but I just hate driving a friggin minivan.
starbux, Sounds like you need someone to give you a reason to buy the Pilot even though you know, or at least believe, that the Ody would be better. Personally, I'd get the Odyssey, but... Look at it this way. You say that the Ody will be about $1500 less. If you keep the Pilot for 5 years, that's $300/year, $25/month, or less than $.83/day. Either way, you can't go wrong, IMO. Good luck.
Shouldn't the crumple zones in a Pilot or Highlander be more like an Ody or Sienna than say, a truck based ute, like an Explorer?
Yes, they are. But the frame is still a bit higher (than MVs), leading to somewhat higher aggressivity in collisions. But there is no doubt that the Pilot/Highlander pose a much lower threat to other car based vehicles than truck based SUVs.
.. from NYC. Interesting SUV observations on the way But more on that later. First some interesting news. This is from CNN today (www.cnn.com)
Two sedans get top crash test ratings
Whats interesting is how they test the vehicles. I qoute
"In the side-impact test, a barrier shaped to simulate the front end of a pickup or SUV crashes at 35 mph into the driver's side of the vehicle being tested."
"The institute's side-impact test mimics a real-world crash in which a pickup or SUV runs a red light or stop sign and strikes a vehicle in the side," Lund said.
Isnt it ironic that we now have to evaluate safety on teh basis of an SUV ramming into you
What ironic about that? Makes sense, given the large percentage of SUVs and pickups driving about. NHTSA still does less severe side impact tests using the simulated car.
In my driving experience any SUV owners I see use their SUV, Explorer/Jeep etc as a commuter car with only the driver in it. I'm sure that will change as gas approaches $3 a gallon.
yes...they will just get into sedans and commute solo....that will solve the problem...... ?
Many SUV drivers never leave pavement, just the old concrete jungle to the mall parking lot. For most there is no need for one.
hey....you should know that plenty of sedans get 10 or 15 mpg......and people need S"UVs as often as people who need RSX to go faster ....
so why single out SUVs as gas wasters ?
in that same vein.. ....why does any one need the RSX to speed around, when a Prius can accomplish tasks that an RSX does, does it better and safer.....and don't tell me you are a racer boy wanna be ???!! :P
so are you saying that drivers can waste gas if they want to zoom along faster, but cannot waste it if they want to drive into a mall ?
my hypocrisy antenna goes up when that sort of argument goes up.....
""The bottom line is that anybody who drives an SUV and has NEVER been offroad or towed more then 2000 lb could as well be wearing a large sign on their chest:
"I am an insecure egotist who is easily influenced by marketing and loves to waste money"
I can imagine then crawling from the overturned semi-upright vehicle in a ditch with that look on their faces.""
LOL....sounds like you are insecure about others choice of cars....and have problems with other people that you have to call them names...
an apology is in order , dae....
I use my suburbans' capabilities, even though I don't tow 2000 lbs or go offroad everyday.
oh....like if a car driver / minivan driver had the full use of all its capabilities ....???
They are not, "in my POV". Go back and read the comment in context.
bumper heights are important. You implied they were not in your post 703. It does not matter what the weight is...bumpers are important. Your flipflops are just in time for summer....
me: "IT is the best vehicle choice that they made for themselves. "
sails: Ah, of course...they made a choice, therefore it am good. Why didn't I see that?
sails....people make choices within their own set of vehicular requirements. Just like you. You gave yourself the right to buy a RSX....because you said it satisfied your vehicular requirements....the need for speed, etc....even though any person can say that you are increasing dangers by concentrating on speed, instead of buying a slower car like a Prius..which also saves gas....
you give yourself the benefit of doubt....but you don;t give it to others...does that sound fair ?
me: "why not compare suburban with a dodge minivan..."
sails: Be my guest, but it's irrelevant to the comparison that was being discussed.
you forget ....the topic is about minivans versus Suburbans...and comparisons that I noted fallls within that topic. Like I said...the suburban has a very low and safe insurance rating.....52...one of the lowest. There are some minivans and SUVs that are not as safe,.
The discussion can be ....why is the darn minivan by dodge so unsafe compared to suburbans....both which are very common and sell alot. You seek to swing the discussion only by using the minivan with the better record, while forgetting that there are minivans with bad records.... :sick:
Isnt it ironic that we now have to evaluate safety on teh basis of an SUV ramming into you
You can prefer that they evaluate safety on the basis of mopeds ramming you, but you should be smarter than that....
they should evaluate safety on the basis of actual possibility of large vehicles ramming a car....and SUVs are a distinct possibility.....maybe they should use semis ...but then many vehicles would fail....especially those whose bumpers do not match up....
""Why? If the choice is stupid and inhumane (dangerous to others), that is only appropriate. ""
do I hear goose stepping ?!!!
so you are saying that the danger is caused by the vehicle, not the driver ?
did you know that they take driver responsibility very seriously, not what vehicle one drives.....( oooh, officer, he was driving a corvette, RSX or SUV, so he was dangerous....but the crazy guy in the sedan is OK...)
"And, oh, yeah, there is this little thing called sarcasm. "
careless or reckless drivers are the key...whether the vehicle is a SUV or minivan or sports car......
Some people buy cars for safety, some buy for needs, some buy for image, some buy for utility, some buy for a statement, some buy for thier ego, some buy for gas savings....to each his own.....
if you call SUVs inhumane,what are the SEMI trailers called ?
"True you make a point, but I know many single people that bought Explorers/cherokees etc as their everyday car or commuter car, to each their own, thats their choice"
here I agree. I also see lots of people who buy a car, but is always solo in it....and also complains about gas prices....
that is their choice....just like we all have cars that we rarely use all 5 seats. rarely carry that much stuff, and rarely really need the car in the first place.....
Department of Transportation figures that 70% of people can have their needs met by an electric GEM vehicle....or even motorcycles...
...I just hate driving a friggin suv. It makes one look like a redneck, construction worker, blue-collar, nomad, hillbilly, etc.
In the words of the famous philosophers Bo and Luke Duke- "YeeeHAAA!"
Now if you're talking about an suv with mudders and a big rebel flag on it, I can see that. But a Honda Pilot? There ain't no 'real' redneck that'd be caught dead in a Honda Pilot!!
Driving a minivan makes ya look like a soccer mom.
I'm a truck guy. I drive a Taco. Okay, I'd rather have my F150 back, but that's another story for another thread. But, man... somebody help me here. It is my wife's main vehicle, and she was set on a Pilot as well. Do I go with my brain/wallet or heart? The Ody's been a good van, but I just hate driving a friggin minivan.
Gee, you sound like a "rough and tumble mans man"...liking his pick-up trucks and getting nervous around minivans. I would take you to be the straight-black coffee drinkin' guy and not the type to have "starbucks" as a forum name. It comes across as an oxymoron don't you think? I mean really, the home of the Lattes and espresso's...and here you are trying to sound all manly? Say it ain't so!!
"Driving a minivan makes ya look like a soccer mom. "
No, its all the kids and their sports gear in here with me that makes me look like a soccer mom, no matter whether I'm driving a Pilot, sedan or borrow my bosses super sized pick-up truck or am actually driving a minivan.
And, its a label I am proud to wear.
Although - now you have me thinking of "bo-and-duke"ing up my Pilot just a bit...
But the frame [of Highlander and Pilot --Br] is still a bit higher (than MVs), leading to somewhat higher aggressivity in collisions.
Sienna weighs 5-600lbs more than Highlander when equipped with comparable drive train, and has similar ground clearance. If "aggressivity" is the word, Sienna has more of it than Highlander. As for Pilot, there is no AWD Odyssey, or FWD Pilot, so we don't know how they two would compare if they two were indeed cross-shoppable.
Gee, you sound like a "rough and tumble mans man"...liking his pick-up trucks and getting nervous around minivans. I would take you to be the straight-black coffee drinkin' guy and not the type to have "starbucks" as a forum name. It comes across as an oxymoron don't you think? I mean really, the home of the Lattes and espresso's...and here you are trying to sound all manly? Say it ain't so!!
Burn them beans, grind em up good, make it thick enough for the spoon to either stand up in it or melt it. Then put some vanilla cream and a bunch a sugar, a little whip cream and a sprinkle of cinamon on top, and *viola*.
Okay, so it might seem a little strange that I don't care for minivans... I'd actually rather be riding my Harley (oh, boy- here come the comments now!). But I went from a Chevy Astro (1989, what a hunk o junk), to a Nissan Quest, to the Ody, guess I'm just tired of minivans, period. I've owned about 6 or 7 trucks, but never 4wd. Maybe I'm just lookin for adventure... (cue the Steppenwolf 8 track please).
No need to close the discussion. It would be helpful to refer everyone back to Post #1, where the creator said this discussion is about the "benefits/downsides to a mini van vs. SUV, particularly for families of different sizes."
So comments about why you don't like SUVs are pretty much off-topic, and aren't especially helpful to those wandering in here trying to decide which people mover works best for them.
starbux4me:Driving a minivan makes ya look like a soccer mom.
you:No, its all the kids and their sports gear in here with me that makes me look like a soccer mom no matter whether I'm driving a Pilot...
But that's the point. Any vehicle with that stuff would (naturally) make one look like a soccermom. But some vehicles look like the type of vehicle driven by a soccermom, when no soccer stuff is inside. A soccermom doesn't need an SUV which can ford streams, climb mountains and dodge boulders on the way to camping out on the ridgeline. Of course, almost no one else does, either, but many like to look like they do, instead of like a soccermom. Even with soccer stuff inside.
And, its a label I am proud to wear.
You should. I did, too (well, a soccerDad), when I drove an Astro with my soccerkids several (ahem) years ago. The thing is that the vast majority of folks do NOT wear that label proudly. Hardly.
If "aggressivity" is the word, Sienna has more of it than Highlander.
I said that the HL is a bit higher than most MVs. It is. Only about a half inch higher than the Sienna (which I didn't specify) but more than that for others. Weight and frame stiffness is not as much of a factor in that comparison, as I said.
"Some people buy cars for safety, some buy for needs, some...."
Agree...excellent point that says it all. It took 765 posts for someone to figure that out. The host may now close this discussion
I have nothing against any of the vehicles....but do have a thing about some of the drivers , who should'nt be allowed to drive anything bigger than a pair of skates....
Gee, you sound like a "rough and tumble mans man"...liking his pick-up trucks and getting nervous around minivans. I would take you to be the straight-black coffee drinkin' guy and not the type to have "starbucks" as a forum name. It comes across as an oxymoron don't you think? I mean really, the home of the Lattes and espresso's...and here you are trying to sound all manly? Say it ain't so!!
lots of welll to do professionals and yuppies like SUVs ...perhaps the rise of SUVs mirror the rise of starbucks.... I like starbucks....nice environs....maybe buy a franchise on the next block and sell Krispy Kremes with it....( no teeth gnashing sound, but excuse the slurps.. )
I'm new to chat rooms in general, and I need some advice about the mini-van experience. I just sold my 2002 Subaru WRX-a divorce, four children and soccer (I play and coach) has made me go to the van. They are just too practical even if my male ego prefers something else. So-Odyssey or Sienna? I can do a straight cash deal and I've been shopping. Both drive fine and I've gotten spoiled by the full time AWD in the WRX so I'm leaning to Toyota. Have I mentioned that I HATE car shopping and car salesmen/women? I'm getting the run-around here in suburban Long Island and I've got some concerns-how does the AWD hold up in the Toyotas? So far as I know, they aren't known for that technology. A Toyota salesman claimed he used to sell Odysseys and they have transmission and electrical problems that develop in about 1-2 years. I haven't seen that in Consumers or Edmonds. That comment struck me as out there, but who knows? It seems to me the biggest problem I have with an Odyssey is everyone wants one and the dealers get the MSRP and it looks like there is a little room to bargain with the Toyotas. I even had a dealer tell me getting a sunroof from the factory in the LE AWD model was almost impossible, so they'd have to add it there, whcih seems like a bit much to swallow. My beloved children are in love with the idea of an on-board DVD player and the dealers, of course, are discouraging it unless they sell it to me on the basis that if an aftermarket vendor screws the pooch on the installation it will void the warranty-are installlations particularly tricky for either vehicle? I'd appreciate any and all comments-I'm hoping to buy in the next week or two. I've tried the BJs/AAA discounts and the salesmen are trying to avoid those prices as well. Did I mention I hate this process.... :confuse:
Well, I did Chattanooga to Orlando in a Kia Rio this spring, followed by a Boise to Yosemite jaunt in the Quest for the booming waterfalls. (with a wireless notebook, you never missed me, eh?).
The Kia wasn't too bad for 1,500 miles actually - I was impressed by the 6 way adjustable driver's seat. The minivan is still a better ride. I turned down a drive up the Alcan in a new diesel pickup. ;-)
Now y'all help Jim out - a real comparison question to chew on!
O.k steve...looks like you have about 4 years invested in this discussion.The 4 year anniversay of this discussion being in 10 days. So, we can keep it open. Highenders post would have been a good closer though.
I don't think I ever said I don't like SUV's.Can't recall ever being off-topic.I think in terms of looks and styling they have any minivan beat fairly easily. I can see getting a large SUV...due to seating capacity, cargo area, towing etc. But, a minivan beats a small/midsize SUV in practically everything...including price. If it's a "people mover" that is ones priority...then one need to look no further than one of the maxi minis. Or, if mpg is not a concern...a large SUV. But, yes...some "benefits/downsides to mini van vs SUV" posts would be nice.
Comments
4. The growing trend in our neighborhood of families (most with 3 or more school age kids) is to have two cars - large that holds all, and a sedan or convertible (PT cruisers are big here, too). The rule is the one who is drives the the kids that day drives the big car. The families with the enlightened husbands take turns being responsible for getting the kids where they need to be. In others - the man usually drives the smaller car all the time.
This isn't pro-SUV or pro-MV, just wanted to clarify a slight anti-woman slant that I might have inadvertently read into your post.
On the other hand, maybe he just liked the large area for drawing diagrams!
tidester, host
With thanks to John Gribbin
I don't care what other people think, I'm an adventure guy (but not a curious character) in a minivan and I think that's a perfectly reasonable deviation from the beaten track. (I gotta get a few more of his books; haven't read that last title).
Steve, Host
Imagine him trying to get through airport security these days!
Do you think he'd opt for an SUV? I'm sure he could reinvent the physics of SUVs! (I.e. What would Feynman drive?)
tidester, host
True you make a point, but I know many single people that bought Explorers/cherokees etc as their everyday car or commuter car, to each their own, thats their choice. My one friend just bought a new Nissan pathfinder for herself, no kids, doesn't even put anything bigger then her briefcase in it. Now she complains it uses a lot of gas, didn't she read the EPA sticker before she bought it of 14/18?
I know many families that are having their 1st kid and have to sell the perfectly fine paid for mid sized sedan that would carry said child fine and rush out and buy a BIG SUV for that 1 kid. To each their own.
When people here move to a large SUV for the family car, its more likely to be an Expedition or Navigator. When I went to the Ford dealer to try out the Freestyle, he kept telling me to look at the Expedition, because that's what he usually sold to women, since they can seat eight. To today's super busy moms, car pooling abilities are very important.
The idea family car would have to be the Jetson's - it always was the perfect size, whether there were two or eight in it, the whole top flipped up for easy entry, and it folded up so you didn't have to find a parking space!
The worst thing about it was the mpg. OK, OK, I knew the EPA estimates, so it wasn't a surprise. It's just the fact of adding 20 gallons every 300 miles that's so painful. (Less painful when gas was$1.40/gal.
When the lease ended we bought a minivan. Certainly for our needs, it was a much better choice. (We don't tow, go off road, or drive extensively in the snow.)
I know comparing the previous generation Exploder to a minivan really isn't fair, but the van is so much better for us. We did consider buying a midsize SUV with 3 rows.
Just to touch on a couple of other points. We've gone on a couple of trips with my folks (me, my wife, 2 kids, 2 G-parents). Both were approximately 1 week trips. Once we rented a Suburban and the other a Town and Country. Both times we were able to pack everything behind the 3rd row. To be fair, it took a bit more thinking to get everything to fit in the T&C. As far as driving, the T&C was much easier to maneuver than the Suburban, although the Suburban had a much better ride than my Y2K Explorer.
The other things involves the newer car based SUVs. Shouldn't the crumple zones in a Pilot or Highlander be more like an Ody or Sienna than say, a truck based ute, like an Explorer?
Sounds like you need someone to give you a reason to buy the Pilot even though you know, or at least believe, that the Ody would be better. Personally, I'd get the Odyssey, but...
Look at it this way. You say that the Ody will be about $1500 less. If you keep the Pilot for 5 years, that's $300/year, $25/month, or less than $.83/day.
Either way, you can't go wrong, IMO.
Good luck.
Vic
Just curious...could you explain what it is that you hate about driving it?
Many owners of all vehicles do so. What is that supposed to prove?
IT is the best vehicle choice that they made for themselves.
Ah, of course...they made a choice, therefore it am good. Why didn't I see that?
...I do not think it is for you to judge...
Is that your reasoned judgement? :=)
They are not, "in my POV". Go back and read the comment in context.
...why not post it again...
If anyone else asks, I'd be glad to.
Be my guest, but it's irrelevant to the comparison that was being discussed.
There is some sort of noise, but I'm not sure what it is :=)
Yes, they are. But the frame is still a bit higher (than MVs), leading to somewhat higher aggressivity in collisions. But there is no doubt that the Pilot/Highlander pose a much lower threat to other car based vehicles than truck based SUVs.
Two sedans get top crash test ratings
Whats interesting is how they test the vehicles. I qoute
"In the side-impact test, a barrier shaped to simulate the front end of a pickup or SUV crashes at 35 mph into the driver's side of the vehicle being tested."
"The institute's side-impact test mimics a real-world crash in which a pickup or SUV runs a red light or stop sign and strikes a vehicle in the side," Lund said.
Isnt it ironic that we now have to evaluate safety on teh basis of an SUV ramming into you
yes...they will just get into sedans and commute solo....that will solve the problem...... ?
Many SUV drivers never leave pavement, just the old concrete jungle to the mall parking lot. For most there is no need for one.
hey....you should know that plenty of sedans get 10 or 15 mpg......and people need S"UVs as often as people who need RSX to go faster ....
so why single out SUVs as gas wasters ?
in that same vein.. ....why does any one need the RSX to speed around, when a Prius can accomplish tasks that an RSX does, does it better and safer.....and don't tell me you are a racer boy wanna be ???!!
so are you saying that drivers can waste gas if they want to zoom along faster, but cannot waste it if they want to drive into a mall ?
my hypocrisy antenna goes up when that sort of argument goes up.....
"I am an insecure egotist who is easily influenced by marketing and loves to waste money"
I can imagine then crawling from the overturned semi-upright vehicle in a ditch with that look on their faces.""
LOL....sounds like you are insecure about others choice of cars....and have problems with other people that you have to call them names...
an apology is in order , dae....
I use my suburbans' capabilities, even though I don't tow 2000 lbs or go offroad everyday.
oh....like if a car driver / minivan driver had the full use of all its capabilities ....???
:P
bumper heights are important. You implied they were not in your post 703. It does not matter what the weight is...bumpers are important. Your flipflops are just in time for summer....
sails: Ah, of course...they made a choice, therefore it am good. Why didn't I see that?
sails....people make choices within their own set of vehicular requirements. Just like you. You gave yourself the right to buy a RSX....because you said it satisfied your vehicular requirements....the need for speed, etc....even though any person can say that you are increasing dangers by concentrating on speed, instead of buying a slower car like a Prius..which also saves gas....
you give yourself the benefit of doubt....but you don;t give it to others...does that sound fair ?
sails: Be my guest, but it's irrelevant to the comparison that was being discussed.
you forget ....the topic is about minivans versus Suburbans...and comparisons that I noted fallls within that topic. Like I said...the suburban has a very low and safe insurance rating.....52...one of the lowest. There are some minivans and SUVs that are not as safe,.
The discussion can be ....why is the darn minivan by dodge so unsafe compared to suburbans....both which are very common and sell alot. You seek to swing the discussion only by using the minivan with the better record, while forgetting that there are minivans with bad records.... :sick:
You can prefer that they evaluate safety on the basis of mopeds ramming you, but you should be smarter than that....
they should evaluate safety on the basis of actual possibility of large vehicles ramming a car....and SUVs are a distinct possibility.....maybe they should use semis ...but then many vehicles would fail....especially those whose bumpers do not match up....
do I hear goose stepping ?!!!
so you are saying that the danger is caused by the vehicle, not the driver ?
did you know that they take driver responsibility very seriously, not what vehicle one drives.....( oooh, officer, he was driving a corvette, RSX or SUV, so he was dangerous....but the crazy guy in the sedan is OK...)
"And, oh, yeah, there is this little thing called sarcasm. "
careless or reckless drivers are the key...whether the vehicle is a SUV or minivan or sports car......
Some people buy cars for safety, some buy for needs, some buy for image, some buy for utility, some buy for a statement, some buy for thier ego, some buy for gas savings....to each his own.....
if you call SUVs inhumane,what are the SEMI trailers called ?
here I agree. I also see lots of people who buy a car, but is always solo in it....and also complains about gas prices....
that is their choice....just like we all have cars that we rarely use all 5 seats. rarely carry that much stuff, and rarely really need the car in the first place.....
Department of Transportation figures that 70% of people can have their needs met by an electric GEM vehicle....or even motorcycles...
so cars kills....to the tune of 45,000 per year.
It is good to hear a voice of reason ......
If you can't doubt yourself who can you doubt?
tidester, host
Agree...excellent point that says it all. It took 765 posts for someone to figure that out. The host may now close this discussion.
Just curious...could you explain what it is that you hate about driving it?
Ego? :surprise:
In the words of the famous philosophers Bo and Luke Duke- "YeeeHAAA!"
Now if you're talking about an suv with mudders and a big rebel flag on it, I can see that. But a Honda Pilot? There ain't no 'real' redneck that'd be caught dead in a Honda Pilot!!
Driving a minivan makes ya look like a soccer mom.
Gee, you sound like a "rough and tumble mans man"...liking his pick-up trucks and getting nervous around minivans. I would take you to be the straight-black coffee drinkin' guy and not the type to have "starbucks" as a forum name.
It comes across as an oxymoron don't you think? I mean really, the home of the Lattes and espresso's...and here you are trying to sound all manly?
Say it ain't so!!
:-)
No, its all the kids and their sports gear in here with me that makes me look like a soccer mom, no matter whether I'm driving a Pilot, sedan or borrow my bosses super sized pick-up truck or am actually driving a minivan.
And, its a label I am proud to wear.
Although - now you have me thinking of "bo-and-duke"ing up my Pilot just a bit...
Don't forget the skid pads on the hood!
:-)
Sienna weighs 5-600lbs more than Highlander when equipped with comparable drive train, and has similar ground clearance. If "aggressivity" is the word, Sienna has more of it than Highlander. As for Pilot, there is no AWD Odyssey, or FWD Pilot, so we don't know how they two would compare if they two were indeed cross-shoppable.
It comes across as an oxymoron don't you think? I mean really, the home of the Lattes and espresso's...and here you are trying to sound all manly?
Say it ain't so!!
Burn them beans, grind em up good, make it thick enough for the spoon to either stand up in it or melt it. Then put some vanilla cream and a bunch a sugar, a little whip cream and a sprinkle of cinamon on top, and *viola*.
Okay, so it might seem a little strange that I don't care for minivans... I'd actually rather be riding my Harley (oh, boy- here come the comments now!). But I went from a Chevy Astro (1989, what a hunk o junk), to a Nissan Quest, to the Ody, guess I'm just tired of minivans, period. I've owned about 6 or 7 trucks, but never 4wd. Maybe I'm just lookin for adventure... (cue the Steppenwolf 8 track please).
So comments about why you don't like SUVs are pretty much off-topic, and aren't especially helpful to those wandering in here trying to decide which people mover works best for them.
Steve, Host
you:Ego?
Yup, that's what I thought.
you:No, its all the kids and their sports gear in here with me that makes me look like a soccer mom no matter whether I'm driving a Pilot...
But that's the point. Any vehicle with that stuff would (naturally) make one look like a soccermom. But some vehicles look like the type of vehicle driven by a soccermom, when no soccer stuff is inside. A soccermom doesn't need an SUV which can ford streams, climb mountains and dodge boulders on the way to camping out on the ridgeline. Of course, almost no one else does, either, but many like to look like they do, instead of like a soccermom. Even with soccer stuff inside.
And, its a label I am proud to wear.
You should. I did, too (well, a soccerDad), when I drove an Astro with my soccerkids several (ahem) years ago. The thing is that the vast majority of folks do NOT wear that label proudly. Hardly.
I said that the HL is a bit higher than most MVs. It is. Only about a half inch higher than the Sienna (which I didn't specify) but more than that for others. Weight and frame stiffness is not as much of a factor in that comparison, as I said.
Hmmmm...in a topic that compares SUVs and MVs, no one should mention what they don't like about SUVs. Hmmmmmm.
You've been away from your snowboard too long :=) Try South America. Road Trip!!!
still stuck to old stereotypes ?
well, you are not the only one....
LOL...umm, you can always count on doubting yourself...but give the benefit to others ?
Agree...excellent point that says it all. It took 765 posts for someone to figure that out. The host may now close this discussion
Gee, you sound like a "rough and tumble mans man"...liking his pick-up trucks and getting nervous around minivans. I would take you to be the straight-black coffee drinkin' guy and not the type to have "starbucks" as a forum name.
It comes across as an oxymoron don't you think? I mean really, the home of the Lattes and espresso's...and here you are trying to sound all manly?
Say it ain't so!!
lots of welll to do professionals and yuppies like SUVs ...perhaps the rise of SUVs mirror the rise of starbucks.... I like starbucks....nice environs....maybe buy a franchise on the next block and sell Krispy Kremes with it....( no teeth gnashing sound, but excuse the slurps..
now if we can get the
starbux: :Ego?
sails : "Yup, that's what I thought. "
me : ah...I thought you would understand, with your vehicular needs being on the same wavelength....
got it, steve.....
Sails: I think we should clean up our act, lest the snip gods cut us off...
Have I mentioned that I HATE car shopping and car salesmen/women? I'm getting the run-around here in suburban Long Island and I've got some concerns-how does the AWD hold up in the Toyotas? So far as I know, they aren't known for that technology. A Toyota salesman claimed he used to sell Odysseys and they have transmission and electrical problems that develop in about 1-2 years. I haven't seen that in Consumers or Edmonds. That comment struck me as out there, but who knows? It seems to me the biggest problem I have with an Odyssey is everyone wants one and the dealers get the MSRP and it looks like there is a little room to bargain with the Toyotas. I even had a dealer tell me getting a sunroof from the factory in the LE AWD model was almost impossible, so they'd have to add it there, whcih seems like a bit much to swallow.
My beloved children are in love with the idea of an on-board DVD player and the dealers, of course, are discouraging it unless they sell it to me on the basis that if an aftermarket vendor screws the pooch on the installation it will void the warranty-are installlations particularly tricky for either vehicle?
I'd appreciate any and all comments-I'm hoping to buy in the next week or two. I've tried the BJs/AAA discounts and the salesmen are trying to avoid those prices as well. Did I mention I hate this process.... :confuse:
Well, I did Chattanooga to Orlando in a Kia Rio this spring, followed by a Boise to Yosemite jaunt in the Quest for the booming waterfalls. (with a wireless notebook, you never missed me, eh?).
The Kia wasn't too bad for 1,500 miles actually - I was impressed by the 6 way adjustable driver's seat. The minivan is still a better ride. I turned down a drive up the Alcan in a new diesel pickup. ;-)
Now y'all help Jim out - a real comparison question to chew on!
Steve, Host
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
I don't think I ever said I don't like SUV's.Can't recall ever being off-topic.I think in terms of looks and styling they have any minivan beat fairly easily. I can see getting a large SUV...due to seating capacity, cargo area, towing etc. But, a minivan beats a small/midsize SUV in practically everything...including price. If it's a "people mover" that is ones priority...then one need to look no further than one of the maxi minis. Or, if mpg is not a concern...a large SUV. But, yes...some "benefits/downsides to mini van vs SUV" posts would be nice.