SUV vs Minivans

tidester

Likely to drop like an anvil on Jupiter?

Do you have any idea how much fuel it would take to get an anvil to Jupiter? It would at least be the equivalent of powering an army of MVs - or half an army of SUVs!

tidester, host

stever

Maybe they are contributing to relief efforts. You can too:

link

Steve, Host

jipster

"... be the equivalent of powering an army of MV's or half an army of SUV's"

I think you got that backwards tidester. Besides...strap a pair of wings on any minivan and it would look just like the space shuttle. The aerodynamic shape of the MV would allow it to glide into Jupiters gravitational field, drop that anvil, then fly back using a fraction of the fuel a SUV would use.

gagrice

Just listened to an interview with a fellow that was able to get out of New Orleans after the storm. He said he would never have made it without his 4X4 SUV. He said trees were blocking the roads everywhere. When you need an SUV nothing else will do.

allison5

as far as buying a minivan or keeping SUV. Curious on what people think of changing over to a Sienna from a Yukon SUV. I am now spending over 75.00 to fill up my GMC Yukon (not the suburban the shorter one) and litterally go through about 1 1/2 tanks a week. I carpool, drive 3 kids here and there everywhere etc etc even though I have been trying to walk where I can but mostly drive. My less than 2 yeara old GMC has been in the shop so many times I lost count and now am finally in a position that I can trade if I want to even though I will be upside down. We drive to Lake Tahoe in Calif in winter maybe 3 -4 times year for skiing and more than that in summer. I just don't know if I should keep 4 wheel drive SUV for those times I would need it. I realize I am on Toyota forum so I am sure a lot of people would say go with toyota ( I definatly agree toyota would of been better) however I now am looking at gas prices, as well as fix it things, driving this bug thing etc. I have 3 kids that I tote around and a dog that sometimes goes with us on vacation.

nitromax

Just listened to an interview with a fellow that was able to get out of New Orleans after the storm. He said he would never have made it without his 4X4 SUV. He said trees were blocking the roads everywhere. When you need an SUV nothing else will do.

Did he tell you the rest of the story? About how he ran out of gas after driving around all of the obstacles?
:-)

Just kidding. It sure did come in handy!

Keep in mind the US hasn't had a natural disater of this magnitude in a long, long time.

nitromax

We drive to Lake Tahoe in Calif in winter maybe 3 -4 times year for skiing and more than that in summer. I just don't know if I should keep 4 wheel drive SUV for those times I would need it. I realize I am on Toyota forum so I am sure a lot of people would say go with toyota ( I definatly agree toyota would of been better) however I now am looking at gas prices, as well as fix it things, driving this bug thing etc. I have 3 kids that I tote around and a dog that sometimes goes with us on vacation.

Actually you're not on a strictly Toyota forum. This form crosses amongst other forums.

I was just in the market recently for an upgrade from our Subie Impreza. It just wasn't cutting it when it came to our newborn and day trips up to visit my parents. Not enough space for the stuff once three peoiple got onboard.
So we were looking at Sienna's, Odyssy's and the new Ford Freestyle. The Sienna has AWD as an option if that interests you....as does the Freestyle. The Sienna is AWD all the time (I believe) and the Freestyle is AWD when needed.

We ended up going with the Freestyle because it was a little smaller than the other two minivans and it didn't seem to be as cumbersome. (In my opinion, minivans are getting a little overboard as far as the size goes)

So good luck in your shopping and feel free to bounce any other thoughts off of us.
:-)

brightness04

Very good point. I was just watching the video footage of the relief convoy going into the disaster zone on TV. I couldn't help realizing that the overwhelming majority of the vehicles in the convoy were SUV's.

jipster

When I was viewing footage of the disaster I noticed hundred of vehicles...sedans, trucks...and yes...even SUV's... piled on top of each other, or submerged under about 5 feet of water. Of course SUV's can go thru higher standing water and over road debris better than a sedan or minivan. But, don't let this fact lull you into a false sense of security. SUV's have their limitations as well, and it is the responsiblity of the owner to understand this.

gagrice

I realize I am on Toyota forum

Only in some people's mind.

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with you GMC Yukon. My partner just bought an Envoy Denali and drove it to CA from Detroit. He has the 5.3 L V8 that he loves. He averaged 21 MPG cross country. His 2003 Envoy has the inline 6 and he cannot get better than 17 MPG. He is selling it now that he bought the new one. If you don't mind the smaller vehicle you may like the Envoy better. I doubt you will get great mileage with the Sienna or Odyssey either. Some do, many do not. CR reported 12 MPG city for the Odyssey. The Hybrid Escape will get you to the ski resorts in Tahoe and they are getting about 29 MPG combined. That is better than any minivan will get.

stever

Discussions get categorized so interested people will see them when they do a make/model search. For broad topics like this one, we just take a stab. Right now, this discussion shows up in the lists for the Dodge Caravan, Lincoln Navigator, GMC Envoy, Honda Odyssey, Nissan Pathfinder, and the Toyota Sienna.

If y'all would like to see more representation from, say, Ford Explorer owners, that can be arranged. :-)

Steve, Host

gagrice

But, don't let this fact lull you into a false sense of security. SUV's have their limitations as well

That is a fact. I had my new 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser less than 50 miles when I got it high centered. You have to know the limitations of any vehicle you drive. Not many SUVs would get out of New Orleans where the water is over 3 feet deep. Amphibians are about the only thing that will be usable in New Orleans for the next month or so.

I guess the insurance companies are on the hook for all those destroyed vehicles. They should be covered under comprehensive. Hopefully for the victims.

brightness04

I have a friend whose uncle in Alaska moves his family in a "small" diesel school bus, With intake and exhaust up high on that thing, the diesel school bus can really wade through floods.

BTW, big V8 SUV getting 20+ mpg like your friend's is very impressive. Not many minivans can get 20+ in real life.

tdoh

In all fairness to your statement--no, I haven't sat in the third row of an Explorer...but based on having sat in the third row of both a Tahoe and Yukon XL (Suburban equivalent), I would venture to say that if the third row of an Explorer is "a lot bigger than you think", then the third row of an Expedition or Excursion is probably even bigger than that of the Explorer. In any case--if given a third-row choice, I would much rather sit in the third row of a Yukon XL than that of a Tahoe...and similar could be said on my part if I had to choose between the three aforementioned Ford offerings. But regardless of which vehicle(s) have the larger third row, I would much prefer to not sit in the third row if at all possible. If you were a passenger in such a vehicle and had to "fight" it out among the other passengers as to who winds up sitting in the third row, could you honestly say you would prefer sitting in the third vs. the second row?

tdoh

CR reported 12 MPG city for the Odyssey.
If true, then indeed that is pretty bad. I mean, heck--my 3-ton Yukon XL Denali gets that kind of city mileage--if not a wee bit more...and that's with an engine that almost twice as large in capacity. Yes, the city MPG comparison is but one half of the big picture; I'm sure it gets much better hwy fuel economy than my DXL does...but the Odyssey city numbers are indeed shocking--again, if true--for a vehicle type (minivan) that's supposed to be better all-around, when compared to large SUVs like mine.

stever

school bus can really wade

This rings a bell.

around 50% of flash flood/flood fatalities occur in vehicles

blh7068, "I don't like SUVs, why do you?" #61314, 25 Oct 2004 5:48 pm

Anyone driving anything into a flooded street is taking a big risk.

Steve, Host

explorerx4

the ford suv irs design allows for more room in the 3rd row. i have sat in the 3rd row of the gm's. they remind me of my '00 expedition. it is just completey different.
i would rather sit in the second row of a tahoe/yukon than an explorer. 3rd row is the other way around(including the 'sub).
the solid axle design of the gm's allow for a larger gas tank, which is why they are prized by by those priius owners.

steve... we explorer owners have to keep up our 'adventure guy' image, so what the hey, add it! personally, i think minivans are too big to be compared to mid size suv's.

stever

So long Navigator owners, hello Explorer adventure guys.

Minivans didn't used to be all that huge, but most sure are now.

Steve, Host

explorerx4

steve... rotflmao! that didn't take long! i hope you are getting overtime for this.

ctsang

You mean one of the reasons to buy a suv is for those event that only happens once in a lifetime? How stupid can one gets? Why not just move inland?

highender

preparing for natural disasters that may or may not happen, is prudent or stupid, depending on your point of view... I would say it is prudent. Just like having a fire extinguisher, smoke detector, defibrillator, etc....

to many who had to go thru flooding or snow blizzards and adverse weather conditions, having an SUV is the SMART thing to do.....

add on the possiblity that it may get you out of tough situations,, and it may be the best choice.

Of course,,,,I hope you still have your Prius to save gas.

Moving inland costs a lot of money...

I just moved inland 3 months ago......and am only 3 minutes away from the kids school,....instead of 40 minutes away...but my real estate tax basis went up....so now I am paying $10,000 per year in taxes....whereas I used to pay only $3500 / yr....... that $6000 difference sure would buy a lot of gas to fuel many gas guzzling cars.

wild fires are a regular occurence here in the west....and having an SUV may also allow one to escape larger pieces of falling branches and increase the availability of escape routes, in the event one is caught by advancing fire storms...

tidester

and having an SUV may also allow one to escape larger pieces of falling branches and increase the availability of escape routes

And the more prudent MV owner will anticipate the impending disaster, leave earlier and take more stuff with her!

tidester, host

stever

There's a nursery 30 miles from here (RT) with great fall sales. Last year it was a 15 foot red oak, 8' catalpa and 8' walnut that caught our eye. And we toted them home all in the back of the minivan. I could have borrowed my buddy's pickup, but then the trees would have gotten wind-blasted on the ride home. Due to the red oak, we had to leave (leaf?) the hatch open 2' at the bottom.

This year we just sprung for an 8' incense cedar in a 25" across pot (15 gallon?). It fit in nicely with the hatch shut. :-)

I doubt most mid and mini utes could have handled the load near as easily, and using a Suburban would mean a foot higher lift-over for the ~200 pound root ball.

Steve, Host

gagrice

and using a Suburban would mean a foot higher

That is one of the reasons I sold the Suburban. Hauling trees is a pain in any enclosed vehicle. Cleaning up the mess of leaves etc. I like using a PU for that kind of chore. When I buy lots of trees I take the trailer with 5 foot sides. That is good protection from wind damage. I don't know how I survived 7 years without a PU truck, only that Suburban.

How do you haul an 8 foot tree without bending it or laying it flat? Or did you say you buy them with the root ball in a burlap bag? In CA they are usually in black plastic containers that spill when you lay them down to transport.

stever

The cedar eased right in with the tip just reaching between the front seats. The midtrunk was nicely supported by the second row seat that was in the folded table position. It's been a few years since I've ridden in a Suburban, but my minivan has 3' 10" of room between the floor and ceiling, and I bet the Suburban isn't much, if any taller inside.

The root ball is in a degradable pot that rested at the end of the van a few inches from the door. I use my cars so a little dirt doesn't freak me out. Maybe a quart of debris spilled.

When we got home, we backed up to a terraced section of our yard that is a few feet higher than the driveway, and only had to slide the root ball about 8 inches onto a slab of plywood. I held the tree by the rootball while my wife drove away and then rolled the tree upright.

No leaves or limbs were killed or harmed in the making of this movie.... :shades:

You SUV fans may enjoy this post:

payson, "Toyota Land Cruiser" #4715, 3 Sep 2005 9:00 pm

Steve, Host

njsonja

is there a website that gives dimensions of all the minivans? my garage is really rather tight...i have a 1999 chevy venture now and need a new van...thanking you guys in advance...

sonja

stever

Edmunds has dimensions here under the New Cars tab.

One easy way to compare the dimensions of several vans is to use the Vehicle Comparison tool. After selecting your vans, click on the Specs tab to see the interior and exterior dimensions.

Steve, Host

explorerx4

don't you have any wind where you live? i wouldn't buy a tree that couldn't take a little of that.
how many mv's have second row windows that you can open? i know some do. yesterday, we took my nephew home from his football game. the other kids made him keep his uniform on, to contain the 'aroma', and they put rear the windows all the way down for the ride home.

stever

Actually I'm up a hill and it blows 8 to 10 minimum all the time, lol. But excessive desiccation from hauling a tree around in an open pickup bed sounds like a good excuse to brag about the carrying capacity of my minivan.

I think the Odyssey, MPV and maybe one or two other minivans now have roll down second row windows. Most of the rest just pop open a few inches.

Judging from the posts I've been reading the last 2 weeks, it looks like $3 a gallon is the magic number in the States. If gas doesn't subside .50 cents in the next couple of months, '06 full size SUV sales are going to take a hit. A little easing in gas price could sure help Detroit right about now.

Steve, Host

nitromax

Minivans didn't used to be all that huge, but most sure are now.

So, they're not mini....vans anymore?

:-)

nitromax

wild fires are a regular occurence here in the west....and having an SUV may also allow one to escape larger pieces of falling branches and increase the availability of escape routes, in the event one is caught by advancing fire storms...

I try not to live my life like a Hollywood movie set. I watch the news and I heed their warnings.

OUch to your tax increases! That's a huge jump!!

(Thank you sir may I have another!)

:-)

jipster

"I try not to live my life like a Hollywood movie set"

Anyone ever see the movie Daunte's Peak? Had Pierce Bronson in it I believe. A volcano blows its top near a small town. Pierce hops in his big SUV...drives thru a forrest of small saplings, thru a 5 foot high river, rides over a lava flow with tires bursting in flames (SUV keeps a rolling), outraces a red hot cloud of dust and debris from the volcano...and finally smashes thru an abandoned mineing station in the side of a mountain. The mountain almost literally falls on the roof of the SUV...but Bronson and his girlfriend still have enough room to wiggle out.

Now...you think he could have done all that in a Ford Pinto?

I'm with highender...I'll take a SUV in a hurricane or volcanic eruption any day of the week. Sometimes, Hollywood actually mirrors real life...instead of the other way around. Sometimes...that is. :P

nitromax

Anyone ever see the movie Daunte's Peak? Had Pierce Bronson in it I believe. A volcano blows its top near a small town. Pierce hops in his big SUV...drives thru a forrest of small saplings, thru a 5 foot high river, rides over a lava flow with tires bursting in flames (SUV keeps a rolling), outraces a red hot cloud of dust and debris from the volcano...and finally smashes thru an abandoned mineing station in the side of a mountain. The mountain almost literally falls on the roof of the SUV...but Bronson and his girlfriend still have enough room to wiggle out.

I remember that movie. I had to watch it on a flight over to California back in '98. It was a pick up truck and It was killing me when I saw him drive the truck over the molten lava. The truck even got stuck once and was spinning it's wheels in the molten lava.
Note to director/producer...molten lava is melted rock in a liquid state! Rock melts at a higher temperature than rubber...much higher. Helloooo is there anyone home?

It would have been great to see Pierce Brosnon get out and try to get the truck moving while wearing a pair of Teva's...that would have been classic!

:-)

jipster

Well, I think he started out in a truck and ended up in a SUV. Now that you mentioned it, I do remember his dog jumping into the back of a truck while they were going thru that lava flow. I believe they abandoned the truck after the tires melted off and the truck burst into flames. But, anyhow truck...SUV...minivan...give me one of each should a natural disaster occur.

A natural disaster movie being shown on an airline flight :confuse: The feature presentation wasn't one of those "Airplane" disaster movies I hope. :sick:

tidester

Rock melts at a higher temperature than rubber...much higher. Helloooo is there anyone home?

Well, obviously, the rubber was volcanized!

tidester, host

stever

Someone had way too many Krispy Kreme's and coffee this morning!

It's back to decaf and oatmeal for Tides. :-)

Steve, Host

highender

Hi nitromax:

yes....I agree with you...it is prudent to heed warnings and get out of ground zero no matter what vehicle one drives...

the tax increase (caused by moving) will save a non renewable resource ( since now we are only blocks away from school..) for all others out there to burn...including me and the suburban...
thanks for conmisserating....

We drive the acura normally, and save the other vehicles for long trips or vacation trips...

Just went to Monterey Bay Aquarium on Mon....seated 2 families and all the gear and had lots of fun....

how is gas in your neck of woods ?

highender

if there is a natural disaster, and we have to flee...give me one of each suv, mv and p/u.... and leave the boxster behind....

explorerx4

i guess that 'impervious to a volcano' feature is something only advertised in certain locales(hawaii, washington). another suv benefit i just found out about!

nitromax

the tax increase (caused by moving) will save a non renewable resource ( since now we are only blocks away from school..) for all others out there to burn...including me and the suburban...
thanks for conmisserating....

Make 'em walk! :-)

I walked to school...uphill...both ways....in blizzards...carrying a sack of coal!

It grew hair on my chest.
:-)
(I hope you don't have daughters....they won't like the hairy chest)

LOL


how is gas in your neck of woods ?

I paid 3.35 for 89 octane on Friday afternoon....coincidentally, that same gas station was selling it for 2.99 in the morning. It jumped .36 in 8 hours....just in time for Labor Day weekend. (I smell conspiracy!)
:-)

bobw3

I always hear that minivans are more comfortable and quieter than SUVs, and they handle better...any opinions from people who have driven both.

jipster

Minivans are more comfortable, quieter and handle better than SUV's...generally speaking.

highender

yes...in general, minivans...especially the newer Odysseys and Siennas...all ride well and even handle nicely...

/
As to SUVs...there is a whole spectrum of them....

some like the toyota landcruisers and larger escalades and suburbans ride nice enough...very comfortable. Some may even be as quiet as a minivan.

some SUVs , the sportier ones...handles excellent...but gives up some comfort cushy ride. We do not notice it in the cayenne...we think it is perfect blend of sport and comfort....

did I mention they were really quiet at speed ?

I guess it really depends on your needs and wants.....

highender

LOL....

yes...times are easy on the kids nowadays....

I should make them walk...but it is kinda hilly here....

I will try to let the boys walk in Spring...

gas for us at one station went as far as $3.99 for full service & 92 octane ...

but now it went down....self serve is $3.15 now.

mnrep2

I have always bought one-two year old AWD Mopar Mini's. Usually have 18-25K miles. I need the cargo area and load height that the Mini Van offers due to some equipment that I haul around. Which manufacturer would you all look at now that Chrysler removed the AWD option ?

I have had very good luck with all my mopar mini's from 1991 through the 2002 I currently own. I get rid of them at 75-85K though.

ctsang

Not a lot of options here, only GM minivan and Toyota sienna have AWD now. However, the choice is obvious.

explorerx4

depends on your definition of handling. irs does much better with bumps or potholes in corners.

mnrep2

I knew that, but hope springs eternal I was hoping I might be missing some obvious ( to someone) option that might work as well.

explorerx4

are minvan owners 10 percent less happy the suv owners with these gas prices?

jipster

This months Consumer Reports has the Toyota Highlander Hybrid and nonhybrid V6 as the #1 "Quick Picks".... "If a third-row seat is important".

ARE THEY CRAZY?

Did they even look at the third row ? The only thing that could fit in that third row is a couple 10lb bags of potatoes and maybe a head of lettuce.

I have read/heard that CR shows a bias and favoritism with anything Honda or Toyota...but this is bewildering. Anyone else out there bewildered...I mean anymore than usual?