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Each of these vehicles (Suburban and Odyssey) are family trip vehicles mostly on the highway so it is the highway mileage that I care about. When you drive 400 miles and use 15 gallons instead of 27 gallons you notice the difference.
that is a nice thought. But the only way....in my opinion, to really reduce dependency on oil, is for all to stop driving...and immediately switch to moped or bicycle or mass transportation.
You have to start somewhere. If every fullsize truck and SUV was traded in for something that got twice the mileage I bet the price of gas would drop by $1.00/gallon. Expensive gas will return this summer. I am willing to bet we will pass $4.00/gallon for some period, especially if there are some bad hurricanes in the gulf and the Iran situation, the Nigeria situation or the Iraq situation escalates. When this happens, I will at least know that I have purchased the most fuel effecient large people hauler available and an doing what I can to help.
Look at it this way if I can only get 15 gallons of gas. I will make it home in my Odyssey on a 400 mile trip instead of running out of fuel just over halfway in my Suburban.
Most people have mixed usage...and quoting from one person who bought their minivan in 2005 " I am still getting only 18 mpg " I agree that freeway only driving will result in greater gas savings in the minivan. But we still use the Suburban for snow trips...just safer and less trouble...plus more room for all our stuff.....
The reason gas and oil is expensive, if we leave out the political situations, climate effects, and production alterations, is mainly due to population growth.
Just today...about 150,000 people died in the world, but 350,000 people were born. It is the exploding population that is causing the increase in gas prices...together with the rest of the world wanting to have their own car...and the freedom that goes with having your own ride....
In 1982.. I 'slipped ' into China...and everyone was on bicycles, sometimes 3 or 4 on a single bike. ....very few cars...In order to get around, we did hire car and driver ( there were no taxis in China in 1982) , and it was driven by some sort of security agent,...who was driving us around, as well as monitoring our movements. I asked him his name, since we were to be together for 24 hours...but he refused to give it to us.
In 1985....the first private party Chinese car was sold. IN 1986, During my days at EW Saybolt testing gasoline, China still exported thier light gas ( only 50 octane) to us. I was on the tankers to take samples before they off load the shipment. Now...they are competing against us for the limited supplies, hence the real rise in prices...
This past Jan, everywhere we went in china, there were traffic jams. We even used the subways sometimes, cause it was faster than car or taxi....(BTW, all taxis have a printer for receipts...nice )
Now , India , China, and Europe and the rest of the world ,with a car in every garage... is soaking up all the gas...
Plus the 200,000 extra people per day.....
Yes...we should save....but all that usage of gas will continue to increase in the rest of the world.....no matter how much you save....
We need to find viable fuel alternatives, as well as use more mass transportation. We have to change our way of life...and have the whole world change theirs too.....
glad we agree on that. I find inconsiderate drivers in all sorts of vehicles....
but really dangerous drivers in fast and furious cars...
Thanks ....the kid is adjusting nicely. Been keeping us kinda busy though...... hence no time to shoot the breeze with ya all....
Just had the Cayenne carpets cleaned and scotchguarded today...and did the same with the Odyssey. Will do the Suburban next week.....
does anyone know what 'grilz' are? my kid wants to know if anyone here knows?
highender, you will have to do stuff like this when your kid grows up some. have you joined for 'carspace'? you should. then we could see those nice clean carpets.
High has a CarSpace site going, but he's been slow to post any pics ... I guess the new kiddo has grabbed most of his attention. :shades:
Steve, Host
To tell you the truth...I am not that computer savvy....So I never did take any photos of any of the cars...
I will try to take some whent the rains past. The suburban is in the shop for some work on paint chips and touching up....
It should look good in a few ....
I will try to understand teen lingo when the time comes...thanks for the heads up , explorer...
Steve, I may need your help in posting pics....or are there instructions there ?
thanks....
It's REALLY easy to post pics in carspace! Just click on "manage albums" and you'll be walked through the process. It will upload pictures directly from your computer.
tidester, host
maybe we will see some of the old gang...and some new enthusiasts....
I think we all know how THAT will go. :-)
Congrats on the new child!
To say a civil discussion like that couldn't take place is really to say that the moderation of it would be too expensive. So it goes.
That's a bit of an exaggeration on your part...not unless you were flooring it while in the Suburban, somehow it had only a 26-gallon fuel tank, or it was lacking a tune-up or something. Late-model year Suburbans and similar-length GM vehicles (e.g., Yukon XL/XL Denali, Escalade ESV) have 31-gallon tanks; heck, I can get 450 miles out of my 6-liter DXL...so do the math and figure out how many more miles can be had out of a 5.3-liter Suburban w/ a 31-gallon fuel tank. Sure I would have burned a lot of fuel, but I won't be anywhere close to running out of fuel halfway through a 400-mile trip.
Running out of gas halfway into a 400-mile trip in a Suburban? Please tell me that that's because it had a small tank...otherwise it's almost unfathomable to think that anyone could only get 200 miles out of a full 30+ gallon tank of gas unless one is holding back something. Or is it that you're clearly exaggerating just to accentuate the great fuel economy that can be had out of a minivan such as the Odyssey?
hello Nitromax...:
thanks....she is adapting well...
BTW...did you know we jsut got a minivan..??.
Am I going over to the dark side, or is Darth vader becoming Anakin again ?!
I think he means with the exact some amount of gallons of gas....as opposed to a full tank of gas in each of the different vehicles, which would be diff.
Well..it is obvious ( in my view ) that fred222 was hit hard by the recent increases in gas prices....and developed a loathing to the suburban that had served him well when gas was at $1.20
Just understand that it is not water that we are putting into our minivans....and that at regular mixed driving situations , which is the norm for the vast majority of drivers, the mpg will be lower....probably also in the teens.
Heck, Our Acura TL only got 19 or 21 mpg on average....not the 29 that we all dream about in Fantasyland. ( unless you are on your way to Fantasyland (Anaheim) , when I was able to reach max highway mpg by careful driving and following hypermiler's advice.
with the rise in oil prices...I think that topic is really relevant. Seriously.
come on, make a thread like :
1- " why is oil going up, and what are we going to do about it ?
2- The upcoming Oil problem, its causes and consequences.
3- Stealing of safety: what do you think ?
It is good to hear from you.... seriously.
I get much better mileage out of the '06 Odyssey that I have than I EVER got out of my '00 Expedition.
BUT, to put it into perspective, the Expedition was a V8 and AWD. So, the BEST I ever got in it was once I got 16MPG HWY....most of the time I was around 12MPG mixed. The Odyssey OTOH is a V6, and sure I get 21 Mixed in it, but I don't have the towing capacity that the SUV had.
So it depends on all of the uses your family hauler has, IMHO. Before I purchased my '03 F350 CC KingRanch PSD, I needed my family hauler to not only haul family, but to tow stuff too. Now all my family hauler has to do, is haul my family....safely.
/idlswdy on
Sure, one must consider one's vehicular requirements when considering whether the externalities (gas usage, emissions, increased risk to others) of an SUV are worth it. And some actually do
But the reality is that the vast majority of SUV owners do not tow anything, so the point is moot for most.
/idlswdy off
Well, no, they don't have to do anything.
I meant "if one wishes to make an intelligent decision", one must consider one's vehicular requirements. It's hard to imagine a rational argument to the contrary.
In any case, this is beside the point. Which is, the question of whether towing/hauling is a vehicular requirement must be part of any reasonable assessment of whether the externalities are "worth it".
Well, no, they don't have to do anything.
YOu are right...people can even buy a vehicle if they don't like it. They can think about their families, they can try to maximize mpg, Or maximize horsepower, or performance...etc...etc..etc...( ala Yul Brunner ).
I meant "if one wishes to make an intelligent decision", one must consider one's vehicular requirements.
One normally makes a choice based on their own needs & wants...not someone else's perceived needs or wants Or perception of intelligence.
It's hard to imagine a rational argument to the contrary.
Yes...but then there are people who presume that they can make the "intelligent " choice for others, and if others do not agree, then they are supposedly not making the right intelligent choice.
In any case, this is beside the point. Which is, the question of whether towing/hauling is a vehicular requirement must be part of any reasonable assessment of whether the externalities are "worth it".
There are other needs and wants and parameters that can make a person decide for or against a minivan or SUV. Towing can be one of them,, but it is not the only one. It is hard to imagine a rational argument to the contrary .
enter the twilight zone theme....
Two demerits for you, Jipster!
tidester, host
Tidester probably could hardly contain himself watching me all this time on the other boards....
Well, from this side, Ya get 2 dozen Krispy Kremes...any flavor..plus either Starbucks Grande or hot choc...
now if you can get harlequin to come back ....
I have to agree with you that minivans can be an alternative. But it would be nice to be objective about it....
If it makes you feel any better, I just got a minivan too...
The Acura TL was nice....but not enough room.
give a dozen , if my memory serves me correctly, rasberry filled krispy kremes , to sails here...and some starbucks .
keep up your sense of humour.... :-)
They are making some nice minivans, and some nice hybrid SUVs , like the Toy Highlander...which also seats 7.
Not sure what the relevance of this is, but the real question there would be what the source of those are. Much of it is not internal. For example, advertising and peer pressure can create needs and wants. But we digress.
...there are people who presume that they can make the "intelligent " choice for others
I have no idea of whom or what you are referring.
There are other needs and wants and parameters that can make a person decide for or against a minivan or SUV.
Obviously. I see the relevancy meter is in the red again.
Lol, unlikely.
I have to agree with you that minivans can be an alternative.
That's kind of a, um, given.
The Acura TL was nice...
Ah well, I think I'll stick to ethanol. See ya.
ME: ...there are people who presume that they can make the "intelligent " choice for others
sails: I have no idea of whom or what you are referring.
I am simply saying that some people may think they can determine what other people should drive , that is all .
me: There are other needs and wants and parameters that can make a person decide for or against a minivan or SUV.
sails: Obviously. I see the relevancy meter is in the red again.
I think that there are many posters here, each who have different needs, diff wants, different vehicular requirements , and have thier own parameters in which they measure the degree of importance of each of those needs and wants.
ME: I have to agree with you that minivans can be an alternative.
You: That's kind of a, um, given.
me: not to many people. They may only want a SUV....or station wagon, or pickup.
Ah well, I think I'll stick to ethanol. See ya.
I am not sure what that means...in this thread. Are you talking about a SUV or minivan that takes ethanol ? Are you trying to insinuate something..? Going yellow is good, but not all vehicles can do that. I think the Odyssey van/ Honda specifically ( if I recall correctly) forbids long term usage of ethanol enhanced gasoline.
please explain ?
Somehow I persevered! :surprise:
BTW - re: your later post - it's spelled raspberry - with a p. :P
tidester, host
And some people think they can determine how others can vote, marry, etc. What's the relevance to anything being discussed here?
I think that there are many posters here, each who have different needs...
What purpose does stating the obvious have?
What's that got to do with "MVs can be an alternative"?
I am not sure what that means...in this thread.
I'm talking about a different thread, not just in topic but in having any content at all.
I really didn't come back to have a nihilistic discussion like this. So I'll stop.
I beleive the "p" is what actually causes the spittle to fly.
:P
tidester, host
that is not like you...
either you are losing your touch, or my memory fails me....
Thanks. For 2 dozen Krispy Kremes and hot chocolate... I'll get Jimmy Hoffa for ya.
How is your vehicle doing ?
Thanks for the the fishing expedition. YOu hooked a nice one for me ....I reeled it in....but my conscience tells me to do the catch and release....
OK...for you, one lbs of choice Maine lobster...with drawn butter ( don't know if you like shellfish)
My minivan is fine....it does many things well. But after a record breaking rain/snow season this year ( beat the record set in 1904 ), we will have to go up in the SUV to snow country .
My 2004 Mazda MPV has been doing very well thank you, 14,000 miles and no problems.(knock on wood) Luckily we don't get very much snow here in Louisville, as the OEM Dunlop tires don't do very well in snow.
Our favorite feature is the fold down third row seat. Looking forward to a couple of long trips this summer as well. Maybe, do some deep sea fishing for the one that got away.
Have fun with your minivan !! Yeah...summer is coming !!
I will have the KK and lobster separate...thank you...
venison is good....icing on top of the cake .
Hey, what's wrong with $3.50 gas...let's keep guzzling and see how fast we can get to $5! With that $100 rebate, we can buy some more and nudge gas up another 10c at least!
After all, we have to drive big trucks to protect us from deer, antelope and really fat rabbits. Perfectly reasonable.
Thank goodness the rest of the country has a little more sense and is cutting back severely on SUV purchases. Turns out the old theory about higher taxes cutting SUV sales was right...only the taxes are being imposed by the rest of the world, not US.
A car in deer country is OK as long as you do not travel at night. When I hit a big buck in Sun Valley with my 3/4 PU truck I was glad we were not in our little Camry.
Of course you know all the arguments after 60k or more posts in a certain thread. Hope your doing well. Always a joy to see your posts. Even though we rarely agree.
The only advantage of daytime is that you get to see them sooner. The deer are always there in Sun Valley!
tidester, host